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Game of Thrones!

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Yeah, this "fight" was not necessarily an endpoint on his arc, it was just the beginning.

well it was an endpoint on him. Unless he manages to pull through. He didn't look that bad.

TYWIN AND CERSEI WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG
TYRION WILL BRING THE DOWNFALL OF THE KINGDOM

God, I hope so.

I watch a ton of movies (Alien was the first one that was really crazy for me, I read the adaptation when I was about 10 and saw the movie a few years later), but I never seem to get desensitized to it. Or, rather, it's easy to desensitize to one-dimensional people getting brutalized, but when it's someone who feels real, then suddenly it's excruciating. Oberyn was very real to me.

Yeah, it was brilliantly horrific. However, after it was all going so well, and anything on GOT going so well with 1 minute left is a big RED FLAG, I was really bracing myself. Damn Martin and HBO toying with us like that!

Yeah, I didn't read the book, but it looked like both were dead. I'm not sure where Tywin gets off declaring Tyrion's judgement on a draw.
Yeah, I guess Tywin is pretty much King, for all intended purposes.


If anything, it looks like Cersei and Tyrion should be boiled in oil together or something if the gods had anything to say about it ("YOu all suck! Death to the lot o' ya!"). I'd miss Tyrion, but I know how much dying in Tyrion's arms would upset Cersei. To make an omelet.... well, you know how it goes.

You gotta crush a few skulls and brains??

I like chives.
 

Totenkindly

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well it was an endpoint on him. Unless he manages to pull through. He didn't look that bad.

Yes, much of his body (90-95%) was still intact.
I think we can rebuild him.
(And if he doesn't want extensive dental work, he can drink slurpees and wear a faceplate.)

Barring that, maybe he can donate some crucial organs for Grey Worm, who might need them shortly.

God, I hope so.
Touche.

Yeah, it was brilliantly horrific. However, after it was all going so well, and anything on GOT going so well with 1 minute left is a big RED FLAG, I was really bracing myself. Damn Martin and HBO toying with us like that!

Pretty much. As soon as he didn't finish him off, I was like, "Oh crap."

....See, here's where an ITP would have done much better.
We close the loopholes and do things in rational order.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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Spoiler only for those who didn't see the episode:

 

Totenkindly

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Yeah, my opinion of Martin's prose is that if you're a speedreader, you won't do it justice. His writing is very easy to parse for fact and detail, without experiencing the actual emotional content of the story. You kind of have to actually actively imagine it in your head, take the dialogue paragraphs and imagine a character actually saying them, their facial expressions, their inflection, etc, if you want to feel any intense emotion -- the reader is filling in a lot of the theatric performance and the events themselves are delivered pretty straight-forward.
 
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Anew Leaf

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Yes, much of his body (90-95%) was still intact.
I think we can rebuild him.
(And if he doesn't want extensive dental work, he can drink slurpees and wear a faceplate.)

Barring that, maybe he can donate some crucial organs for Grey Worm, who might need them shortly.


Touche.



Pretty much. As soon as he didn't finish him off, I was like, "Oh crap."

....See, here's where an ITP would have done much better.
We close the loopholes and do things in rational order
.

Well, he was a good example of how ESTPs are the king of sexual charisma at least. :3

It does fit in, at least, with his character persona so it's not something like on CSI where the forsenic team seems to have missed the lesson on "Turn the damn lights on" before gathering important evidence that may be needed in a court of law.
 
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Anew Leaf

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Yeah, my opinion of Martin's prose is that if you're a speedreader, you won't do it justice. His writing is very easy to parse for fact and detail, without experiencing the actual emotional content of the story. You kind of have to actually actively imagine it in your head, take the dialogue paragraphs and imagine a character actually saying them, their facial expressions, their inflection, etc, if you want to feel any intense emotion -- the reader is filling in a lot of the theatric performance and the events themselves are delivered pretty straight-forward.

If type has anything to do with it... I find I tend to experience this disconnect with T writers a lot. Where there is a separation and one cannot just inhibit and absorb but must do the leg work.

Ne desires speed reading to get the AMGS WHATS AND HOWS done first... and then later one will read and reread things for all the delicious emotional connections and Si framework of history.
 

Totenkindly

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Well, he was a good example of how ESTPs are the king of sexual charisma at least. :3

It does fit in, at least, with his character persona so it's not something like on CSI where the forsenic team seems to have missed the lesson on "Turn the damn lights on" before gathering important evidence that may be needed in a court of law.

I can't fault it.
It's another reason it hurts.
His personal goals had been established clearly, and so he was acting according to them.
Which makes it the "fatal flaw," like watching a Shakespearean tragedy.
This conclusion was fated from the beginning.
He stayed true to character, versus doing something convenient.
But damn. Sigh.

I'm not a big fan of CSI and other shows where inconsistencies seem to exist to provide convenience.

If type has anything to do with it... I find I tend to experience this disconnect with T writers a lot. Where there is a separation and one cannot just inhibit and absorb but must do the leg work.

Ne desires speed reading to get the AMGS WHATS AND HOWS done first... and then later one will read and reread things for all the delicious emotional connections and Si framework of history.

I try to force myself to read more slowly as I age... to savor it before spoilering the details for myself. But it's a conscious thing I have to pursue. As you note, the "big picture" thing wants to get it all in context, so we rush around and try to get a sense of all of it.
 

Beorn

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I couldn't resist chiming in.

Spoiler through A dance with dragons
 
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Yeah, my opinion of Martin's prose is that if you're a speedreader, you won't do it justice. His writing is very easy to parse for fact and detail, without experiencing the actual emotional content of the story. You kind of have to actually actively imagine it in your head, take the dialogue paragraphs and imagine a character actually saying them, their facial expressions, their inflection, etc, if you want to feel any intense emotion -- the reader is filling in a lot of the theatric performance and the events themselves are delivered pretty straight-forward.

I read one of the books, 2nd one? But this explanation is pretty spot on, and one of the reasons I stopped reading.

People often, if not always, say "Yeah, well the book was better." But to me, the show is better. Just like Fight Club was better than the book. It's the medium of film that can bring certain subject matter more to light.
 
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I think he must still have his balls, because otherwise, having been cut as a boy, he would have turned out quite differently due to a lack of testosterone.

That's a good point. Tho I think traditionally Eunuchs are castrated, balls only. Asian societies took it all. The mystery remains.
 

Totenkindly

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I think he must still have his balls, because otherwise, having been cut as a boy, he would have turned out quite differently due to a lack of testosterone.

I was actually thinking about that last night. Definitely if they're trying to create warriors, they don't want to kill their testosterone.

Although that's typically not what happens, is it? It's usually either removal of the testes or just taking everything? That's why it's a little unclear.

also, you need to somehow keep the urethra functioning correctly if you cut off the penis. Their sense of modern medicine is rather lacking. So again I'm not sure.
 

Nicodemus

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That's a good point. Tho I think traditionally Eunuchs are castrated, balls only. Asian societies took it all. The mystery remains.
Martin might not have thought this through either... though he spared us that entire love plot, too.
 

OptoGypsy

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Is Oberyn Martell the best Song of Ice and Fire character or does it get better?
 

Hive

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In the books, they remove both the pillar and the stones from the Unsullied. The strength they lose is compensated for by their discipline, unwavering loyalty and an insensivity to pain they get from drinking a special kind of wine with every meal, making them fearless in battle. The Unsullied are trained to be perfect soldiers and sellswords, so one reason they cut off everything is so that they will never want or be able to rape. It's basically one of their USP's. That's why I didn't understand the inclusion of that scene with Grey Worm and Missandei... Even though it was hilarious.

I'm satisfied with how the showdown between Oberyn and The Mountain translated to the screen. It was about as brutal as I remember it being in the books.

Also: Really impressed with Sansa/Sophie Turner. Her scene at the tribunal was great.
 
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If anyone knows if Grey Worm still has his Pillar or Stones, please PM me. The suspense is killing me.

On the one hand, it simply doesn't make sense to remove balls if you're trying to make a warrior.

"it also greatly reduces the production of certain hormones, such as testosterone."
"A subject of castration who is altered before the onset of puberty will retain a high voice, non-muscular build"

On the other, if one still has his "Pillar" he could still use it I suppose, though [before puberty] "The person may not develop pubic hair and will have a small sex drive or none at all."

And I'm assuming these unsullied were all castrated before puberty.

Like [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] said, this may simply have not been thought through by Martin.
 

Totenkindly

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I'm satisfied with how the showdown between Oberyn and The Mountain translated to the screen. It was about as brutal as I remember it being in the books.

I read it in the book after -- the show seemed even more brutal to me because of all the emotional resonance and the visuals. Gawd.

EDIT: I put all the major Oberyn scenes in my blog.... including the fight from last night. They're a bitch to watch back to back to back, emotionally.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51868&p=2309366&viewfull=1#post2309366

Also: Really impressed with Sansa/Sophie Turner. Her scene at the tribunal was great.

She knocked that one out of the park.
 

Hive

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If anyone knows if Grey Worm still has his Pillar or Stones, please PM me. The suspense is killing me.

On the one hand, it simply doesn't make sense to remove balls if you're trying to make a warrior.

"it also greatly reduces the production of certain hormones, such as testosterone."
"A subject of castration who is altered before the onset of puberty will retain a high voice, non-muscular build"

On the other, if one still has his "Pillar" he could still use it I suppose, though [before puberty] "The person may not develop pubic hair and will have a small sex drive or none at all."

And I'm assuming these unsullied were all castrated before puberty.
Everything is cut off, and it's done while they're still children. The training begins at the age of 5 and finishes around their mid-teens, but the same day they're cut they're given a puppy to take care of for a year (before strangling it). So it's likely they get cut when they're about 7 or 8, to be able to handle the puppy.
 
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