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  1. #1651

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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post

    Heh, that would be fitting. My only issue with that is that, to me, I'm selfishly more interested in the consequences of For the Watch than I would be by any intrigue in bringing him back. Namely:

    Who knows what superpower might be afforded to Jon if he rises from the dead, in whatever shape or form that he does? Maybe he'd be immune to being killed by the whitewalkers?

    I forget where this is from, but there was another saying, "what is dead may never die but rise again stronger, or something...."

    Anyway, maybe there's something to that, as it pertains to Jon.

    And, I agree, after being betrayed by the Night's Watch, maybe, if and when Jon v 2.0 returns, better, badder, deader, his scope will not be so narrow as to his duty to the Night's Watch, but broaden even further, which will allow him to tackle the Whitewalker problem without the limitations of answering just to the Night's Watch.

    I do think Jon was naive in his strategy. Somewhat understandably, he let the over-riding and imminent threat of the Whitewalkers completely drive the solution of bringing the Wildlings into Castle Black, thus, completely ignoring the tenuous yet important factor of having allies from within (his Night's Watch comrades). He completely ignored their perspectives, and consequences of that, even when his squire was giving him hints that, 'hey, you should really factor this angle in, our hatred of the Wildlings....'. Which, was a blind and naive move on his part, which cost him, obviously..........

    Or, maybe it's as simple as, 'nearly died, but not quite'.

  2. #1652
    El Papagayo Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Who knows what superpower might be afforded to Jon if he rises from the dead, in whatever shape or form that he does? Maybe he'd be immune to being killed by the whitewalkers?

    I forget where this is from, but there was another saying, "what is dead may never die but rise again stronger, or something...."
    That was from the Greyjoys, who were kind of like the Vikings.

    Who knows what superpower might be afforded to Jon if he rises from the dead, in whatever shape or form that he does? Maybe he's immune to being killed by the whitewalkers?
    One can hope.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore


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  3. #1653
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    I think I understand Tyrion pretty well as a character; he's someone that wants to do good, but is never going to be seen as one of the good guys by most people. He's kind of an outcast; not someone who is good at fitting into a crowd.
    "Every dwarf is a bastard in his father's eyes [and in the eyes of the rest of the world]."

    I like watching him in Season 2. We know he is capable of experiencing great empathy (mostly through intuitive means) and intervenes often to protect the abused and ridiculed... but he also doesn't seem to be bothered by playing the game intelligently and processes the crueler folks rationally versus empathetically.

    Basically, he's the guy who sees how everything fits together and will end up helping to fix the system... but can never be the face of the system because he doesn't "play well" politically.

    Quote Originally Posted by qre:us
    I forget where this is from, but there was another saying, "what is dead may never die but rise again stronger, or something...."
    it was the title of s2e3. I think it came up when Theon got baptized. It is used in reference to the Drowned God, when an ironman dies, because it's assumed the God has taken him for service and he can serve fitfully without fear of death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I do think Jon was naive in his strategy. Somewhat understandably, he let the over-riding and imminent threat of the Whitewalkers completely drive the solution of bringing the Wildlings into Castle Black, thus, completely ignoring the tenuous yet important factor of having allies from within (his Night's Watch comrades). He completely ignored their perspectives, and consequences of that, even when his squire was giving him hints that, 'hey, you should really factor this angle in, our hatred of the Wildlings....'. Which, was a blind and naive move on his part, which cost him, obviously..........
    Totally. He had some of his dad in him -- a visionary leader who just assumed that if he set an example, his men would follow him and/or at least things would turn out okay and that was all that mattered. He really needed to explain things better and win them over.

    From what I understand, the book made Jon look worse as he was going to take men to go save the fake Arya from Ramsay, which was a violation of his vow of non-involvement, and after all the stresses involving the wildings, that was what pushed the men over the edge. IOW, he honestly wasn't as true to the Watch as he should have been and kind of deserved a reprisal.

    The show Jon more got presented as someone with the right vision and intentions (more heroic) who unfortunately ignored politics to his own peril and thus was vulnerable.


    ----

    Also, director Nutter on Stannis' "off-camera" demise
    'Game Of Thrones' Director Explans Why One Brutal Death Scene Was Not Shown In The Season 5 Finale
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #1654
    El Papagayo Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    "Every dwarf is a bastard in his father's eyes [and in the eyes of the rest of the world]."

    I like watching him in Season 2. We know he is capable of experiencing great empathy (mostly through intuitive means) and intervenes often to protect the abused and ridiculed... but he also doesn't seem to be bothered by playing the game intelligently and processes the crueler folks rationally versus empathetically.

    Basically, he's the guy who sees how everything fits together and will end up helping to fix the system... but can never be the face of the system because he doesn't "play well" politically.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore


    Visit my Johari: http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  5. #1655
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Just a hunch but Stanis is probably still alive. Briann needs him to trade for Sansa; remember that Briann knows where the cowardly skank dwells and would prefer to honor her oath to Catlyn than some dweeb who never had a right to the throne in the first place.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  6. #1656
    El Papagayo Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    Just a hunch but Stanis is probably still alive. Briann needs him to trade for Sansa; remember that Briann knows where the cowardly skank dwells and would prefer to honor her oath to Catlyn than some dweeb who never had a right to the throne in the first place.
    Stannis is dead. Brienne failed to protect Sansa. They might meet later, or Sansa and Theon might go off to find Rickon, or possibly the wall.

    But Stannis is gone.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore


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  7. #1657
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcan View Post
    Stannis is dead. Brienne failed to protect Sansa. They might meet later, or Sansa and Theon might go off to find Rickon, or possibly the wall.

    But Stannis is gone.
    i don't believe you! (covers ears) NA NA NA NA NA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  8. #1658
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    Maybe it's an old Andy Kauffman trick.
    ...Like, Stannis is just punking everyone.

    Now that they think he's dead, he's going to hide out at Nightfort until all the wannabe kings have killed each other.
    Then he'll ride in on horseback and proclaim himself King.

    It's a plan.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #1659
    Senior Member Fuzz's Avatar
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    edit
    Last edited by Fuzz; 06-21-2015 at 01:31 PM. Reason: nvm

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    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    With the season now over, I'd thought I'd answer Jennifer's question from a few weeks ago and post my 5 favorite episodes. I really, really tried to avoid just posting the episodes with the biggest moments, but it turns out that's really hard to do.

    5. Season 4, Episode 2: The Lion and the Rose
    AKA, the Purple Wedding. George R R Martin's last time writing a Game of Thrones episode, he still writes the characters better than anyone else. The set design for the Royal Wedding was amazing, and they did a brilliant job bringing our hatred for Joffrey to a head before finally killing him off. Bringing an Episode 9 worthy plot-twist to Episode 2 also brought a huge amount of momentum to Season 4.

    4. Season 5, Episode 8: Hardhomme
    While the 30 minute story of the massacre at Hardhomme was what made this episode a classic, everything else was very solid as well.

    3. Season 3, Episode 9: The Rains of Castamere
    AKA The Red Wedding. It's basically THE defining moment of the TV show, and I think it's what pushed the show into popular culture. (Youtube reaction videos were hitting late night talk shows, GRRM became more of a celebrity as people wanted to interview him to find out WHY he did what he did, etc.) I have some issues with this episode, but I can't bring myself to ignore it.

    2. Season 1, Episode 10: Fire and Blood
    I sort of consider Episode 9 and 10 to be in the same bucket, but I have to give the edge to Episode 10. It was the single best season finale of the series to date, largely because of how perfectly it resolved all of the plot threads while still setting up the next season in an exciting way. (Without relying on cheap cliffhangers, too. *coughseason5*) There were just so many memorable moments. Yes, Ned is really dead, and Arya is devastated. Tywin realizes Tyrion is pretty damn smart, and decides to make him Hand of the King. The Lord Commander of the Watch gives an inspirational speech and prepares to march north of the Wall. Oh, and yes, Dany hatches some dragons! And the CGI dragons look great!

    Almost as importantly, director Alan Taylor was the first to figure out how to use the limited budget to film the show so it looked like it was happening in another world. For the first time, King's Landing actually looked like it was huge, alive, and something more than just a nice set with pretty costumes. He seems to have basically created the blueprint on how to film the show moving forward. Not surprisingly, after season 2 Alan Taylor would go on to make big fantasy style blockbusters.

    In some ways, this should be number one, but there was one episode that did just a bit better...

    1. Season 2, Episode 9: Blackwater
    Up until this point, the show took inspiration from Rome and would always shy away from battles due to budget issues. This wasn't an option here, though. There were too many characters converging into the same area, and the battle was critical to the plot. In order to film the battle, the show creators begged and pleaded with HBO to get a large budget increase, probably somewhere around the $9 million mark. However, it wasn't just about flexing budgetary and special effects muscles - the action serves to create some of the show's largest character moments. Joffrey is exposed as a coward in spectacular fashion, Tyrion realizes he has a bit of hero in him, the Hound's loyalty to the crown fails in a fire, Cersei's almost poisons her son as she grows desperate, and we see just what wildfire can do. I guess Stannis does some things here as well, but screw him.

    All in all, this episode sets the high water mark, and I doubt it'll get surpassed until MAYBE the final season, if we are extremely lucky.


    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    And, I agree, after being betrayed by the Night's Watch, maybe, if and when Jon v 2.0 returns, better, badder, deader, his scope will not be so narrow as to his duty to the Night's Watch, but broaden even further, which will allow him to tackle the Whitewalker problem without the limitations of answering just to the Night's Watch.

    I do think Jon was naive in his strategy. Somewhat understandably, he let the over-riding and imminent threat of the Whitewalkers completely drive the solution of bringing the Wildlings into Castle Black, thus, completely ignoring the tenuous yet important factor of having allies from within (his Night's Watch comrades). He completely ignored their perspectives, and consequences of that, even when his squire was giving him hints that, 'hey, you should really factor this angle in, our hatred of the Wildlings....'. Which, was a blind and naive move on his part, which cost him, obviously..........
    Agreed. It's very similar to how Ned Stark met his end. He was doing the right thing, but failed to pay attention to how he was alienating everyone around him.

    I really have no clue where he'd go next, though. If he does come back, it will probably mean Melisandre is behind him now, which may not be a good thing. He'll also probably have some loyal wildlings (and a giant) that will be willing to go with him... but will he go South for Winterfell, or North in order to learn more about the Walkers?

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