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  1. #131
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    I don't know why. I think they do it as pre-tests for special subscribers, and someone ripped it off the site. I downloaded it.
    But this only means I have longer to wait for the next episode.
    I just watched it. I'm holding off on commentary until Sunday because I think it's probably rude to get all spoiler-happy with an episode that isn't out yet... But I will say that I think I'm doomed to be one of those book snobs who spends the entirety of the season annoyed by their deviations from the novel.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  2. #132
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    So I take it that season 2's diverging from the book more than season 1 did? Season 1 was really rather close to the book -- at least as close as reasonable for the format. But I think that's easier with a first book in the series, especially with something like this, where it's one continuous story, and the little deviations almost must start to snowball eventually.

    Write me up as another person who'd like to pay for GoT, but can't in the way I'd like to. I won't pirate it, as I don't consider that a fair thing to do to the author/writers/staff, etc. But I also don't want to have to pay for cable (which I have but am considering dumping because it's so darned expensive for how little I use it) *and* HBO (which I don't subscribe to via my cable provider). So my solution is "wait for the DVD's" -- which means waiting for a year. If I could dump cable and subscribe to HBO online, or better, buy the show as it was released, I'd do that in a second. But I can't. So I wait, and miss out on participating in all of the fun online discussion. I still read some (as I've read the books, spoilers aren't an issue), but it's still annoying.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #133
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelric View Post
    So I take it that season 2's diverging from the book more than season 1 did? Season 1 was really rather close to the book -- at least as close as reasonable for the format. But I think that's easier with a first book in the series, especially with something like this, where it's one continuous story, and the little deviations almost must start to snowball eventually.
    I know this wasn't aimed at me, but I'm guessing the extent that it deviates is gonna be tough to call on episode 2. Season one only really differed in scenes that wholesale weren't in the books if I remember (Season 2 still has these). There are a few other deviations in S2E1, but they pretty minor and were probably done for narrative reasons or to give characters and avenue to vocalize their opinions on certain things.

    Regardless, Martin is involved in the production of the show (he wrote one episode last season and one this season, and is clearly involved beyond that). I'm sure whatever's different won't be a major issue. It really can't stray too far. The books are densely plotted.

  4. #134
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Episode 2 was out early because HBO Go released it early in the Netherlands and Poland. I don't think they'll be doing that again, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    I just watched it. I'm holding off on commentary until Sunday because I think it's probably rude to get all spoiler-happy with an episode that isn't out yet... But I will say that I think I'm doomed to be one of those book snobs who spends the entirety of the season annoyed by their deviations from the novel.
    I find that not all changes are equal. I don't mind changes that don't really affect the overall heart of the story even if it introduces minor plot holes, such as Shae living in Tyrion's room vs the elaborate hideaway or the location where Dany sent out her 3 riders.

    I generally find extra scenes that could have happened but the book couldn't provide, such as Ned spotting Arya on the Sept of Baylor, Varys and Littlefinger's banter, or the montage with killing Robert's bastards, to be interesting.

    I can accept changes they were forced to make because of it the requirements/limitations of a TV show, such as Ghost barking, character name changes, or Tyrion getting knocked out in the battle last season. (They were originally going to have Tyrion riding behind Gregor Clegane, and show the Mountain chopping people down left and right, but they ran out of time with the horses.)

    I'm undecided when it comes to tertiary changes that run parallel to Martin's story, such as everything with Roz.

    However, the changes that really bother me are the ones where they betray the characters, which in turn cuts into the strength of the story. Littlefinger would not taunt Cersei like that (although I like your theory about the theme of power), and the last scene of episode twelve really annoyed me.

    On the plus side, the show creators got a 15% budget increase this season, and most of that was so they could shoot the battle at the end of the season. Rumor has it that season one had a $60 million budget, so we are talking maybe 5 - 9 million dollars dedicated to doing the final battle of the season. Plus, they got the guy who directed The Descent to direct the episode, and George Martin wrote it. I'm excited.

  5. #135
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    I find that not all changes are equal. I don't mind changes that don't really affect the overall heart of the story even if it introduces minor plot holes, such as Shae living in Tyrion's room vs the elaborate hideaway or the location where Dany sent out her 3 riders.

    I generally find extra scenes that could have happened but the book couldn't provide, such as Ned spotting Arya on the Sept of Baylor, Varys and Littlefinger's banter, or the montage with killing Robert's bastards, to be interesting.

    I can accept changes they were forced to make because of it the requirements/limitations of a TV show, such as Ghost barking, character name changes, or Tyrion getting knocked out in the battle last season. (They were originally going to have Tyrion riding behind Gregor Clegane, and show the Mountain chopping people down left and right, but they ran out of time with the horses.)

    I'm undecided when it comes to tertiary changes that run parallel to Martin's story, such as everything with Roz.

    However, the changes that really bother me are the ones where they betray the characters, which in turn cuts into the strength of the story. Littlefinger would not taunt Cersei like that (although I like your theory about the theme of power), and the last scene of episode twelve really annoyed me.

    On the plus side, the show creators got a 15% budget increase this season, and most of that was so they could shoot the battle at the end of the season. Rumor has it that season one had a $60 million budget, so we are talking maybe 5 - 9 million dollars dedicated to doing the final battle of the season. Plus, they got the guy who directed The Descent to direct the episode, and George Martin wrote it. I'm excited.
    First of all, I'd never heard that thing about Tyrion riding behind the Mountain. That would've been pretty cool.

    And I agree with a lot of what you say. Another change from the books that was totally necessary for a TV broadcast is bumping up Jon, Robb and Daeny's ages, and I totally get that.

    I think I minded the Shae in Tyrion's room a little more than you, considering how big a deal it is that he keeps her absolutely secret from Tywin, but it's nothing unforgivable. As to Roz, I can forgive it because her role was basically to be a sounding board to characters we'd otherwise see zero behind the scenes stuff with in season one (basically, she listens to Theon, she listens to Littlefinger, she listens to Pycelle, and we get to know those characters. She's just a character other characters can say things to that it would be problematic to say to anyone else, as well as develop exposition (Littlefinger and Catelyn or Theon's stewardship with Eddard) that'd sound clunky otherwise. The Littlefinger monologue, in particular, was pretty awesome).

    I thought the exact same thing in the scene with Littlefinger and Cersei. Baelish is way to smart to piss off the queen for basically no reason. I haven't seen the second episode, so no comment there.

    As to the battle... yeah, pretty excited.

    It's also worth noting that the ratings are way up this season. If it keeps going up (True Blood, HBO's highest rated show, had a very, very similar growth between season one and two) then I think we'll see even bigger budgets and higher episode orders next year. HBO's gonna be very nice to a show that's a proper hit.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  6. #136
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    It's also worth noting that the ratings are way up this season. If it keeps going up (True Blood, HBO's highest rated show, had a very, very similar growth between season one and two) then I think we'll see even bigger budgets and higher episode orders next year. HBO's gonna be very nice to a show that's a proper hit.
    They're also talking about splitting some of the other books into 2 seasons, which I think will allow them to adhere to the books more closely. It's probably just an excuse to be able to draw it out into more than 5-6 seasons. Since True Blood is already on it's 5th season, and this is doing better... It will get milked for all it's worth.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  7. #137
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    They're also talking about splitting some of the other books into 2 seasons, which I think will allow them to adhere to the books more closely. It's probably just an excuse to be able to draw it out into more than 5-6 seasons. Since True Blood is already on it's 5th season, and this is doing better... It will get milked for all it's worth.
    Well, that, and maybe give Martin a little time to finish the damn thing. His wife even intimated it's not impossible it'll end up being 8 books.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  8. #138
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    I think I minded the Shae in Tyrion's room a little more than you, considering how big a deal it is that he keeps her absolutely secret from Tywin, but it's nothing unforgivable. As to Roz, I can forgive it because her role was basically to be a sounding board to characters we'd otherwise see zero behind the scenes stuff with in season one (basically, she listens to Theon, she listens to Littlefinger, she listens to Pycelle, and we get to know those characters. She's just a character other characters can say things to that it would be problematic to say to anyone else, as well as develop exposition (Littlefinger and Catelyn or Theon's stewardship with Eddard) that'd sound clunky otherwise. The Littlefinger monologue, in particular, was pretty awesome).

    Good point with Roz. I expect she's going to have her own character arc this season, though.

    As to the battle... yeah, pretty excited.

    It's also worth noting that the ratings are way up this season. If it keeps going up (True Blood, HBO's highest rated show, had a very, very similar growth between season one and two) then I think we'll see even bigger budgets and higher episode orders next year. HBO's gonna be very nice to a show that's a proper hit.
    I hope so - I can definitely see this series giving us 4 awesome seasons. After that, things get murkier. Translating books 4 and 5 into 2 or 3 seasons, each with their own complete story arcs, will be challenging. It'll require more changes to the book. Also, while there are bits of greatness, I also don't think the source material is as strong.

    As far as the budgets, I read in an interview that Benioff and Weiss will try and avoid increasing the budget, since they don't want to cause the show to collapse under its own weight. (See: Rome.) The 15% budget boost seemed more like a one time shot to do the end-season battle right, since it's so central to this and next season's plot. I suspect they'll decrease the budget for next season.



    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    They're also talking about splitting some of the other books into 2 seasons, which I think will allow them to adhere to the books more closely. It's probably just an excuse to be able to draw it out into more than 5-6 seasons. Since True Blood is already on it's 5th season, and this is doing better... It will get milked for all it's worth.
    Book 3 is definitely 2 seasons of material. Books 4 and 5 have 3 seasons worth of material, but I don't know if it's 3 good seasons worth of material.

  9. #139
    Anew Leaf
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    My guess on the way the seasons go will be:

    Book 2/Season 2: 2012
    Book 3/Season 3: 2013
    Book 3/Season 4: 2014
    Book 4&5/Season 5: 2015
    Book 4&5/Season 6: 2016

    Possible that Season 7 could be book 4 and 5 again.

    (Discussing Book 4)


    Since GRRM is heavily involved with the TV show, I am going to trust that any changes from the book are minor ones. *crosses fingers* This is his baby after all.

    Season 1/Book 1 Spoiler:

  10. #140
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Sounds about right, @Saturned. I think being able to mesh books 4 and 5 together will make for a much stronger narrative.

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