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Thread: Game of Thrones!

  1. #1301
    HopelessSituationWarrior Array Osprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    ...Which leaves me feeling like I have no idea what Arya is undertaking or who/what she will become -- and whether her own remaining family will ever recognize her again.
    I think at some point, she's going to decide that her identity is important again. She's probably going to be faced with a situation that is going to force her to acknowledge it.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
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  2. #1302
    Raag Array Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I appreciate your comments about "identity," although all shows usually involve change as that's the basis of good drama... characters being refined by the situations they find themselves in, dealing with cognitive dissonance, having to be more than they are (or at least expand unused areas of themselves) in order to deal with situations they are not prepared to deal with. Many of these characters indeed were unchallenged and untested, and thought themselves one thing but are really something else... or becoming something else.
    Yes, that's a main part of what has kept me invested. Good plot twists are yummy, but character arcs are the heart. It's what keeps me invested when a show has such a long line-up of characters.

    Still wondering about Stannis' daughter, with her Grayscale (or whatever it's called). You can't help but wonder about dragonblood or something... although in the last episode we did hear about people who died from the disease when their entire bodies were covered.
    I think it will be poetic justice for Stannis. I think, as the story progresses, he will get the Iron Throne, but only for a little while. And Melissandra and her cuckoo ways will need King's blood for one of her many spells to ward off evil (something like pure blood, pure heart, or some such fantastical BS). And she will be sacrificed ( I can picture the little girl selflessly volunteering for it), instead of their stand-by Gendry. I can almost picture the scene, the little girl sacrificed into the fire, and like the Phoenix rising, come out of it, purified of her grayscales, for a moment, his "perfect beloved daughter", before the flames consume her. It will the ultimate price Stannis pays for his part in the game.


    Yeah. I agree with that. Although there's some minor characters with self-awareness. (Like Ser Barristan, for example -- he's the same as he was all his life, it's a matter of integrity for him, he knows what his values are.)
    Most definitely, there are quite a handful of minor characters who are quite self-aware; usually the geriatrics. Didn't mention as they're the minor players.

    I agree with Ser Barristan Selmy (love him!), Dame Oleanna Tyrell (I think she deserves the Dame title, suits her; aside: an acquaintance of my friend, is her godson, small world! The actress, not the character...), and Like-A-Boss Tywin Lannister. Qyburn is another one, too.

  3. #1303
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    I feel like Jorah got a raw deal because of Selmy, but I can't really fault Selmy -- he's one of the few people in this show who actually has integrity.

    ... and then Qyburn.

    oh dear god. He looks relatively normal, but every time I look at him, I just picture this little snivelly beady-eyed Igor-like creature puttering about in his mad-scientist lair doing unmentionable things to corpses and still-living victims. He knows who he is and is totally fine with it, he feels no guilt. I kind of have to laugh at him every time he shows up.

    I love Oleanna Tyrell to death. What great casting. Some of my favorite scenes were when she and Tywin got together for a one-on-one. It would be nice to see more of her.

    I guess Tywin knew who he was, but there were moments of cognitive dissonance... like when Cersei trumpeted in his face about how all her children were Jaime's, and you could almost see his one eye twitching. On some level, he knew it, but he refused to consciously accept it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #1304
    Raag Array Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I feel like Jorah got a raw deal because of Selmy, but I can't really fault Selmy -- he's one of the few people in this show who actually has integrity.
    Just to be safe, as my memory is failing me regarding the episodes:



    I kind of find him too pathetic to care much about him.

    ... and then Qyburn.

    oh dear god. He looks relatively normal, but every time I look at him, I just picture this little snivelly beady-eyed Igor-like creature puttering about in his mad-scientist lair doing unmentionable things to corpses and still-living victims. He knows who he is and is totally fine with it, he feels no guilt. I kind of have to laugh at him every time he shows up.
    Scary what true detached, objective curiosity looks like, huh?

    I love Oleanna Tyrell to death. What great casting. Some of my favorite scenes were when she and Tywin got together for a one-on-one. It would be nice to see more of her.
    I love the interaction between her and Tywin when they're having a battle of wits regarding the marriage of Cersei and Loras. So enjoyable to watch. The chemistry and play off between the two actors were such a treat to watch on screen.

    Moment of silence for never again seeing another interaction between them.

    I guess Tywin knew who he was, but there were moments of cognitive dissonance... like when Cersei trumpeted in his face about how all her children were Jaime's, and you could almost see his one eye twitching. On some level, he knew it, but he refused to consciously accept it.
    The way I see Tywin's self-awareness is that he know what his goal is, who he is, what he can do, LEGACY!!!! His blind-spot is not about himself, but about his children, and he knew it, too, but he justified it as, "we don't have the luxury to be whoever we want to be. So, my not caring who they truly are is actually efficiency. We're lions and we have an obligation to be THE MOST POWERFUL! Can't waste time on idealized dreams and 'wants' and 'what ifs'."

    I think he was so invested in his children becoming who HE wants them to be, what he envisions for them (which he was fully aware of, and exerted his power to that end, constantly), that he was never fully willing to accept (even though, aware) of who his children really were/became.

    Fascinating character. One of my favourites.

    His interaction with Oleanna Tyrell, and Arya Stark will be sorely missed.
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  5. #1305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I think he was so invested in his children becoming who HE wants them to be, what he envisions for them (which he was fully aware of, and exerted his power to that end, constantly), that he was never fully willing to accept (even though, aware) of who his children really were/became.
    It's ironic. He utterly neglected the emotional needs of his children in order to secure their legacy which resulted in issues and rivalries that ultimately insured that his entire legacy is resting on extremely shaky ground.

    It's mentioned in the books that he wasn't always such a dick; it was the death of his wife that "killed the best of him" according to an aunt that we probably won't meet. His hatred of Tyrion is like a classic irrational Dickensian thing, beyond Tyrion's disabilities.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
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    Yeah, please don't spoil stuff that hasn't aired officially yet.
    (i.e., if you watched the first four episodes on the illicit stream, only discuss the ones that have officially aired.)
    Otherwise use the Spoiler tags.

    We decided that after the first 24 hours after airing, you don't have to use Spoiler tags anymore and you're in here on your own risk.


    ... still cracking up that Tywin had Arya in his own employ for so long and didn't know who she was. That was incredibly awesome. I'll miss him. It's been neat seeing Charles Dance in a few other things, or in interviews out of characters, and seeing what a pleasant guy he is... not really Tywin.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #1307
    Raag Array Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I think at some point, she's going to decide that her identity is important again. She's probably going to be faced with a situation that is going to force her to acknowledge it.
    Yes, I think she is going to be a bad guy we will be rooting for, a classic good gone bad. I think her ultimate climax will be a face-off between her and her favourite brother, Jon (who also was the one who gave her Needle, and believed in her, unassumingly). I'm sure the Red Woman will be present in there somehow. I think his utter disappointment in who she will have become, will be that situation that you speak of.

  8. #1308
    respect the brick Array C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Most definitely, there are quite a handful of minor characters who are quite self-aware; usually the geriatrics. Didn't mention as they're the minor players.

    I agree with Ser Barristan Selmy (love him!), Dame Oleanna Tyrell (I think she deserves the Dame title, suits her; aside: an acquaintance of my friend, is her godson, small world! The actress, not the character...), and Like-A-Boss Tywin Lannister. Qyburn is another one, too.
    It's like you can't live long enough to grow old in Westeros unless you're wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    It's ironic. He utterly neglected the emotional needs of his children in order to secure their legacy which resulted in issues and rivalries that ultimately insured that his entire legacy is resting on extremely shaky ground.
    There is a glaring contrast between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. While the Lannisters bicker and hate each other, the Tyrells accept, support, and love each other. The heads of both families got away with regicide (so far), but I've a feeling that the Tyrells will profit more from it than the Lannisters for the simple reason that the Tyrells are a functional family.
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    There is a glaring contrast between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. While the Lannisters bicker and hate each other, the Tyrells accept, support, and love each other. The heads of both families got away with regicide (so far), but I've a feeling that the Tyrells will profit more from it than the Lannisters for the simple reason that the Tyrells are a functional family.
    That's an excellent point, although it should be noted that Mace Tyrell is a foppish fool. I don't remember if his wife died in childbirth, but she never really showed up in the narrative. Maybe the way they were raised was Olenna's doing.

    Really, the funny thing is that Loras and Margery are, in terms of public appearance and reputation, anyway, everything Tywin would have liked Jaime and Cersei to be. Loras is seen as an excellent tourney knight and is considered to be gallant, while Jaime is loathed. Margery is also much more popular than Cersei.
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

  10. #1310
    Raag Array Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.J.Woolf View Post
    It's like you can't live long enough to grow old in Westeros unless you're wise.
    Then there's the High Septon, and the Maester, who can't figure out their face from their ass, but can quite easily locate another's perfect ass to kiss.

    There's also the intriguing Children angle (Bran & Tree Co.), and the wisest are the babes angle.

    There is a glaring contrast between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. While the Lannisters bicker and hate each other, the Tyrells accept, support, and love each other. The heads of both families got away with regicide (so far), but I've a feeling that the Tyrells will profit more from it than the Lannisters for the simple reason that the Tyrells are a functional family.
    Really like this summary. Apt.

    Lannisters also roar too much, and, too loudly. While the Tyrells get to quietly hide their thorns amongst their pretty delicate roses and smiles.
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