Game of Thrones!

[Totenkindly]

FFS

Five more Game of Thrones stars add their names to Emmy ballots

Gold Derby also notes that just one episode was submitted in the writing category: The show’s series finale written by showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss.

Should have been "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" if anything. Submitting the finale is a joke.

...HBO had already submitted Emilia Clarke and Kit Harington for lead actor categories and Peter Dinklage, Lena Headey, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Maisie Williams, and Sophie Turner in supporting categories.... Now comes word that five more have been entered (“likely by their personal reps,” the outlet explains). The newcomers in supporting categories include Gwendoline Christie (who was phenomenal as Brienne of Tarth in the series and particularly in the second episode of the final season, “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms”), Pilou Asbaek (who was a surprise scene stealer as Euron Greyjoy), Alfie Allen (who was heartbreaking as Theon Greyjoy), and Richard Dormer (who had strong final moments as Beric Dondarrion).

yeah, sounds like participation rewards at this point... It's hard to shine when the screenplays weren't that good. Case in point: Lena Headey, who deserved recognition before this season hands-down but had squat to do (in any meaningful sense) in Season 8. I feel bad for her.

In fact, I have trouble thinking of any performance that really stuck out in the final season to be a winner or runner-up for an entire year of TV, aside from maybe Coster-Waldau and Christie in the scene where Brienne is knighted. Although I guess, despite the bad scripting, Clarke did as well as possible pulling off that final episode or two. The actors didn't do bad, it's just the season itself was unmemorable aside from two huge controversial plot points folks were waiting years to see. The production quality was still there, so I can understand awards in those areas.

 

[Population: 1]

The series finale was submitted for an Emmy? For writing? One YouTuber found that 57 minutes of the finale contained no dialogue! 57 minutes of silence for the wrap up to an 8 year show known for character complexity.

D&D are amazing, and not in a good way. An Emmy submission for writing that finale? Might as well shit on a plate at a baking competition and call it a brownie.

 

[Totenkindly]

Wait....how are you supposed to actually make brownies again...?

 

[Andy]

Not to be confused with Cooking with Varys.

I had considered going for Cooking with the Freys, but I missed that one.

And then a marriage counseling show "A Family Affair" with Jaime and Cersei Lannister -- how to keep the love alive in hard times and the bedroom spicy. ("And for our season finale -- the kind of experience that will hit you like a ton of bricks!")

Or The Stanis guide to home schooling and discipline.

 

[Codex]

I can't listen to Dragonstone without spiraling into sadness

 

[Lexicon]

I’m late to this.

Season 8 finale was a big letdown, but I kind of saw it coming, given the trajectory.
Best thing to come out of the series finale:

Drogon’s thoughts/why Jon was spared...

I’ll also submit this - May it be a cool salve to any burns sustained in watching this dumpster fire:

 

[Totenkindly]

GRRM Criticizing Critism of GoT:
“The Internet is toxic in a way that old fanzine culture and fandoms — comics fans, science fiction fans — in those days, was not,” Martin said. “There were disagreements. There were feuds, but nothing like the madness that you see on the internet.”


GRRM Criticizing Lost:
“I kept watching it and I was fascinated. They’d introduce these things and I thought that I knew where it was going. Then they’d introduce some other thing and I’d rethink it. We watched it every week trying to figure it out, and as it got deeper and deeper I kept saying, ‘They better have something good in mind for the end. This end better pay off here.’ And then I felt so cheated when we got to the conclusion.”

“What if I fuck it up at the end? What if I do a ‘Lost’? Then they’ll come after me with pitchforks and torches.”


"Watchmen": Damon Lindelof Reminds George R.R. Martin of "Lost" Slight
"Game of Thrones" author slams "Lost": Damon Lindelof gives EW his response | EW.com





Personally, I think both criticisms were valid.

It's just that in Lost, they were kind of throwing shit at the wall to see what stuck, which is how they got themselves in a hole in the final season, they should have planned better at that stage... and it was also a show written straight for TV. The bad part about the final season is (1) sideways reality plotline that didn't have any gravitas in itself but was just a time-waster and (2) they tried to explain mysteries with subpar explanations thinking they would fly.

In GoT, it was a book translated into TV (1) missing the last quarter of its text (AKA missing a rationally constructed roadmap), (2) crammed into too short a time span to get to a reasonable destination, and (3) a shift away from nuanced/consistent characterization into hopscotch plotting to drive what happened. If GRRM hadn't gotten behind on book release and D&D had all the text, it probably would have run 10 seasons and been a much better show.



(as a side note, Lindelof redeemed himself in TV land with "The Leftovers," which seemed to have learned a lot from his mistakes in LOST plotting... so maybe the Watchmen spinoff has a chance)

 

[Z Buck McFate]

From "GoT author slams Lost" link^:

When we announced the end-date of the show, about two days or three days later the Sopranos finale came on, and we both thought it was, like, completely and totally, empirically brilliant. We were shocked to learn that there were a lot of people who thought it was a cop-out. At that moment in time, we had just negotiated the ending of Lost, we kind of looked at each other and said, “We’re screwed.”​

LOL.

 

[Totenkindly]

A Close Reading of the Script for the Series Finale of ‘Game of Thrones’ - The Ringer

of course, I can't help but recall now that Benois was a co-writer on the screenplay for X-Men Origins: Wolverine -- typically ranked as the worst X-Men movie in the 12-film franchise. Then again, he did write a decent novel (the 25th hour) that got made into a decent film by Spike Lee with his screenplay translation. He also did the script from The Kite Runner, although it's not credited with being quite as good as the book.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

A Close Reading of the Script for the Series Finale of ‘Game of Thrones’ - The Ringer

of course, I can't help but recall now that Benois was a co-writer on the screenplay for X-Men Origins: Wolverine -- typically ranked as the worst X-Men movie in the 12-film franchise. Then again, he did write a decent novel (the 25th hour) that got made into a decent film by Spike Lee with his screenplay translation. He also did the script from The Kite Runner, although it's not credited with being quite as good as the book.

I liked Troy when i saw it. Was that him or the other guy?

 

[Totenkindly]

that was him. What'd you think of bleachy colin farrell

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

that was him. What'd you think of bleachy colin farrell

I don't even remember who he played. I wonder if I would like it now; I DVR'ed it.

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't even remember who he played. I wonder if I would like it now; I DVR'ed it.

meh, my bad -- I was getting it confused with "Alexander" (where he played the titular character). Troy had Brad Pitt and Orlando Bloom.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

The outcomes weren't all that bad (other than the absurdity of Bronn surviving and getting Highgarden and Master of Coin, and some really stupid military tactics on a show that used to showcase some well-thought out battles), they just gave us a very Cliff's Notes, abridged version of what we should have gotten. The show used to take its time without feeling slow--few wasted moments. First four seasons rarely felt as if time was wasted on pointless plot threads--everything felt key to an intricate web of plotlines and character development, and all of that was either unraveled or condensed from season 5 on. When re-watching, it was a joy through the first 4 seasons, not so much from season 5 onward. The fucked part of this is that they could've packed as much intricacy and nuance into the final 4 seasons, even if they'd kept to shorter seasons like they did with 7 and 8. There was just so much wasted time, especially in the final 2.

One major complaint of mine is how they changed Snow's character from the book version. In the show, he's this anti-hero who never wants to lead until leadership falls in his lap (which really only winds up making him look like an entitled, privileged brat like Daenerys), not unlike how Jackson changed Aragorn's character in LotR. It's like D&D had to play on this trope that ambition is inherently evil. In the books, Snow is not nearly as dumb as they made him on the series. They also wrecked Stannis the Mannis' character and turned him into a bigger asshole than he is in the books. He's a somewhat sympathetic character in the books. He's harsh, but fair, and his mission to address the threat in the north is commendable, but totally erased or cancelled out by the sacrifice of his daughter, something I have trouble seeing book Stannis allowing to happen on his watch.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Troy was a little meh but I like that the Trojans weren't portrayed as villains as you might see in a lot versions of the story. Fun fact, the romans thought the trojans were the heroes of the story when they heard it. Some of them mythologized that the first Romans were descended from Trojans.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

One major complaint of mine is how they changed Snow's character from the book version. In the show, he's this anti-hero who never wants to lead until leadership falls in his lap (which really only winds up making him look like an entitled, privileged brat like Daenerys), not unlike how Jackson changed Aragorn's character in LotR. It's like D&D had to play on this trope that ambition is inherently evil. In the books, Snow is not nearly as dumb as they made him on the series. They also wrecked Stannis the Mannis' character and turned him into a bigger asshole than he is in the books. He's a somewhat sympathetic character in the books. He's harsh, but fair, and his mission to address the threat in the north is commendable, but totally erased or cancelled out by the sacrifice of his daughter, something I have trouble seeing book Stannis allowing to happen on his watch.

I definitely have issues with how they handled Snow. I got really irritated by the way they handled him in the last few seasons. In the books, even if he's impulsive, he shows good political judgement in a lot of situations.

I was sympathetic to Stannis in book 2 ( thought Renly was a douche even if he made some savage burns) , but he lost any sympathy had by book 3 when he got fully on board with human sacrifice.

I can actually see Shireen meeting a similar fate in the books. Given how cozy he is with religious fanatics, why not? Just because he's not personally not much of a believer? Do you really think all of the politicians in real life that cozy up with religious fanatics are true believers? In my opinion, that makes him worse that he's not a true believer. He knows that they use their belief system to justify horrendous shit, and he doesn't buy into any of the justifications, but he thinks it will personally benefit him, so he goes with it. Not the mark of great character.

Stannis's only true virtue is that he's better than the Boltons or Joffrey.

Troy was a little meh but I like that the Trojans weren't portrayed as villains as you might see in a lot versions of the story. Fun fact, the romans thought the trojans were the heroes of the story when they heard it. Some of them mythologized that the first Romans were descended from Trojans.

Well, there was also a lot of subtext to the movie.... similar to some of the subtext surrounding Danerys on the show. I have to give them props for putting stuff like that in something that so many people watch.

Edit: Not to derail things too much, but considering that American exceptionalism still seems to be a viable force within the contemporary political arena and central to mainstream (even "liberal" ) media discourse means this is still rather bold. I suspect some of the backlash to the finale has to do with the fact that Danerys wasn't greeted as a liberator (and the finale really showed you how absurd that concept was as she give that speech in the center of ashes), even if nobody will come right out and say that.

Personally, my belief prior to season 7 was that she would learn from Mereen, but I suppose the idea of doubling down on it is sadly more realistic. When I objectively look at her DWD chapters, there is much to support the idea that she will continue down this path in the books, as well.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I definitely have issues with how they handled Snow. I got really irritated by the way they handled him in the last few seasons. In the books, even if he's impulsive, he shows good political judgement in a lot of situations.

I was sympathetic to Stannis in book 2 ( thought Renly was a douche even if he made some savage burns) , but he lost any sympathy had by book 3 when he got fully on board with human sacrifice.

I can actually see Shireen meeting a similar fate in the books. Given how cozy he is with religious fanatics, why not? Just because he's not personally not much of a believer? Do you really think all of the politicians in real life that cozy up with religious fanatics are true believers? In my opinion, that makes him worse that he's not a true believer. He knows that they use their belief system to justify horrendous shit, and he doesn't buy into any of the justifications, but he thinks it will personally benefit him, so he goes with it. Not the mark of great character.

Stannis's only true virtue is that he's better than the Boltons or Joffrey.



Well, there was also a lot of subtext to the movie.... similar to some of the subtext surrounding Danerys on the show. I have to give them props for putting stuff like that in something that so many people watch.

I'm not saying Stannis is ideal, but yeah, way better than most of the other options. Given the way Daenerys arced, and assuming she follows a similar arc in the final books, probably better than her as well, although I would not have expected any great reforms under Stannis as we might get with her. He'd become a very status quo leader once he'd extinguished his enemies and gotten order restored, versus Jon or Daenerys who would probably try to institute more reforms to avoid the same sort of succession conflicts in the future. I think he saw that religion as a means to an end, so you're right in comparing him to a lot of current politicians in bed with fundamentalists. They did feel to me the most cultish of the religions portrayed, maybe with the Faith of the Seven coming a close second. I like the apparent neutrality of the Many Faced God.

regarding Troy and D&D, I still think they're better writers than a lot of haters give them credit for, they were just in over their heads once they ran out of GRRM's source material. GRRM had previous offers for adaptations, so he surely saw something in them when they made their pitch.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

regarding Troy and D&D, I still think they're better writers than a lot of haters give them credit for, they were just in over their heads once they ran out of GRRM's source material. GRRM had previous offers for adaptations, so he surely saw something in them when they made their pitch.

There was some good stuff that wasn't in the books in the early seasons. I don't know to what extent they were personally responsible for it, but not everything that deviated from the books was awful.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

There was some good stuff that wasn't in the books in the early seasons. I don't know to what extent they were personally responsible for it, but not everything that deviated from the books was awful.

You might have a point.

I almost wonder if it's not their writing people should be criticizing, but their supposed micromanagement over every little detail, like insisting on filming the battle of Winterfell at night when that really was something the director and cinematographers should've had the final word on. Maybe they made the same mistakes Lucas did on the prequels and simply should've stepped back a bit and focused more on the writing and executive production than on the showrunning and direction. I don't know.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You might have a point.

I almost wonder if it's not their writing people should be criticizing, but their supposed micromanagement over every little detail, like insisting on filming the battle of Winterfell at night when that really was something the director and cinematographers should've had the final word on. Maybe they made the same mistakes Lucas did on the prequels and simply should've stepped back a bit and focused more on the writing and executive production than on the showrunning and direction. I don't know.

I didn't really have that hard of a time seeing that battle except for some of the wide shots of the zombies. I guess if you were watching it via streaming, it might be a different story.