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Game of Thrones!

Yuurei

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Hm. I am curious t o see the conclusion..but not enough to give Kit Harrington ( that whiny bitch) another dime.

The nerve of that gu-man child. On a show were woman have to shoot naked, frequently appear in ( often non-consensual) sex scenes, and that douche whines " I don't liek women looking at me like that myeeeeeeh!" Well, I dunno what to tell ya dude, maybe quit the show.

Ooh! Maybe he'll die!...but it seems unlikely at this point.
 

Totenkindly

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I dunno, there's a fair number of fans including me who thinks he might die. I would really be surprised if GRRM's plans for at least the books had Dani or him ruling Westeros, his whole premise was not catering to expectation.
 

ceecee

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I dunno, there's a fair number of fans including me who thinks he might die. I would really be surprised if GRRM's plans for at least the books had Dani or him ruling Westeros, his whole premise was not catering to expectation.

Jon is on borrowed time as it is so I would be very surprised if he made it to the end.
 

Totenkindly

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I'm still kind of expecting Gendry to have a part to play here. He's the last Baratheon, even if he's a bastard. And ironically, he's more a Baratheon than Joffrey or Tommen ever was, even at half-blood.



watching the s7 finale, again, what's up with Tyrion's horrible track record in the TV show? He's so damned smart through the first 4-5 seasons. Then pretty much every decision he makes ends up being wrong in major ways. Even in the finale... we don't see the ending of his conversation with Cersei, but it seems like she managed to play him convincingly... chalk up one more miss from Tyrion (although what choice did he have, I guess?) I'm not convinced Daenerys would have so much faith in him. He's supposed to be one of the smartest characters, who keeps getting outsmarted by everyone and their little sibling at least on the off-book show sequences.

I'm also not a fan of the way they handled the Winterfell/Littlefinger bit, mainly at Littlefinger's expense:

 

Totenkindly

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Season 8 Episode 1:

 

Totenkindly

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The opening credits for season 8 were pretty cool.
 

Totenkindly

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This was an interesting angle on the opener and assessing the various sides from a strategic POV. It's at least a bit different from most of the articles I run across.
I also agree about Sansa, she's such an ISJ type. She is asking all the practical relevant questions and somewhat being blown off, but they are very important logistical questions that you have to answer to keep a war effort (and, later, a country) going.

Game of Thrones season 8 episode 1, explained by political science - Vox

I'm still kinda big on Sansa ending up ruling at least the North if not everything, if there is a ruler after this. Stepping back, she has gone from a silly wide-eyed girl with flights of romantic fancy to this woman who has survived the most awful depravities and seen most people she loved die. She is loyal to her family. She is loyal to her people. She understands responsibility. She understands practicality. Her understanding of a ruler's obligations to her followers is very rooted in the notion of servant leadership. It makes that scene even earlier where Brienne pledges to her in the woods and she tries to respond but Podrick has to help her remember the words even more endearing.... we have seen Sansa's ENTIRE growth pattern, and she might have been the most changed surviving character, she's had an actual growth arc. (Well, maybe Jaime and Theon would be the other obvious ones.) Many of the other characters are still pretty much what and who they were at the beginning, just moreso.

As a side note, something I found interesting is how drastic have been the changes during this tumultuous time. There has been a HUGE shift in power in the last eight years in Westeros (or however long the show's arc falls across) -- literally all the old House rulers are dead. That's incredibly quick for a landscape to change. It's most apparent when you see the 10-year-old kids suddenly being rulers over their houses, there were at least three of those. But there's almost no "old guard" left. Even the Night's Watch is in young hands (as Edd and Jon weren't really members for too long before Jon became the leader and now Edd is). And Dorne, which we are barely aware of... their ruling house was gutted as well.

Like, EVERYTHING has changed. If you want to break the wheel, well, they certainly broke the ruling leaders across all of Westeros. The major houses are all in turmoil.





Here's another interesting article:
Game of Thrones season 8 premiere: how will the show end? - Vox

Similar to some of these thoughts, I'm really not sure where the show is going and I have trouble thinking they can resolve (1) the Night King war and (2) the Westeros war in five episodes, legitimately. I feel like things will be rather glossed over and/or simplified. I think Benioff and Weiss did decently when they had books to adapt, but not working from scratch per se. They've just always had trouble with pacing in terms of realistic development of characters and plot events. I have a feeling we're going to get a more conventional ending than GRRM would have imagined or will include in his actual story.

I am expecting the battle of Winterfell to happen in Episode 3, based on what I've read and what I'm feeling from episode 1. There will likely then also be some kind of conflict down at King's Landing -- but I'm not sure whether that's just North again South, or Walkers against Humans (and then against North/South or North caught between Walkers and South. That would have to be by Episode 5, and 6 would be resolution of every major plotline (in 80 minutes, somehow).
 

Totenkindly

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i-thought-you-had-3-dragons-l-thought-you-had-27395108.png


h740B8B7D
 

Z Buck McFate

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Season 8 Episode 1:


Not gonna spoiler, still season 8 episode 1:

That scene was kinda heartbreaking because yeah, Sam is doing his best to be graceful. I do kinda feel like there's been a slow escalation of discrediting her character (which is still far more noble than Cersei, but still not quite as immaculate as Ser Jorah et al make it out to be) as it's been hinted at more and more that she isn't really the true heir to the throne.

I think both that scene and the end - where Jaime gets to Winterfell and looks around - are both really well done. He pulls back his hood, looks around, and smiles - and to me it very much has the feel of someone seeing a place they haven't seen in a very long time. Like, "So much time has past that it's hard to believe it's the same lifetime, and yet this place looks exactly the same." And then his eyes stop on Bran (who is staring right back at him with that fancy new dead expression) and Jaime's expression absolutely drops, (eta) presumably because he's suddenly reminded of the past 'Jaime' who could push children out of tower windows without remorse and it seems to hit him like a ton of bricks (/eta). So well done. (And such a good way to end an episode).
 

Z Buck McFate

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Still season 8/episode 1:

Also, Tormund's alive!!!! I thought for sure he was a goner after last year's finale. He's one of my favorites. And I totally love the Tormund/Brienne dynamic - his enthrallment of her and her reaction to it. It's like he's Pepe Le Pew and she's the cat who keeps accidentally getting a white stripe painted down it's back.
 

Riva

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Tywin - Politically clever, overrated battlefield commander.
Tyrion - diplomatically clever (perhaps relies on this strength a bit too much), overrated thinker. Should have listened to Danny and Onella and attacked kingslanding. Can't seem to think of the moves of the enemies. Keeps failing in this regard. He appears to be mediocre at present.
Littlefinger - politically and diplomatically clever , brilliant thinker. Seem to be a merge of both the above.
 

shinedowness

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The Game of Thrones show is a watered down version of the books in order to attract a lot of people. George R.R. Martin is an upgrade from J.R.R. Tolkien to me because George's books are attractive to not only children but to adults in regards to the sexual stories and he is able to write in colorful and clever detail, too. Honestly, I find the Game of Thrones show to be a downgrade from the books. Tyrion Lannister in the show was interesting for me, but he has increasingly disappointed me for far too long. People type him as an ENTP, but I consider him to be an ENFP in the show because of his increasingly brooding face and ENTP in the books. Danenerys Targaryen in the books is worse than in the show for me, but I still do not like her for playing the game of politics in the ways that she did. Jon Snow is okay both in the books and show for me, but he has been making me think he is so predictable... Also, Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen would not be a good match in the books ideally. Sansa Stark both in the show and books never impressed me. Catelyn Stark was not a good person both in the show and books because of how she was on her high horse, which put her daughters in danger and hurt Jon Snow for no decent reason but to let the "noble" families have their evil egos up their butts about bastard children instead of actually helping those bastard children because they cared about power regardless of how laughably egotistic they looked to rational people like Tyrion Lannister. This may or may not come as a shock, but I don't like Ned Stark in any of the books and the show both. Lannisters both in the show and books make me roll my eyes except for the book version of Tyrion Lannister who was the rationalest character. Petyr Baelish was the only character who has made me feel like he was not as predictable but still I never liked Petyr personally. Arya Stark both in the books and show make me smile for her strength and resilience for being able to kill people to protect her family instead of being a doormat and having princess syndrome like Sansa Stark had. Game of Thrones has a very watered down version of Ramsay Bolton versus the books. Which is a way of saying the Ramsay Bolton in the show was less cruel and seemingly more stupid than the Ramsay Bolton in the books. There are people in the real world who underestimate Ramsay Bolton's intelligence and his abilities. I type Ramsay Bolton as an ESTP or an ambiverted STP. The other characters do not interest me. Sorry, not sorry to the Gendry fans.
 

Andy

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I'm still kind of expecting Gendry to have a part to play here. He's the last Baratheon, even if he's a bastard. And ironically, he's more a Baratheon than Joffrey or Tommen ever was, even at half-blood.



watching the s7 finale, again, what's up with Tyrion's horrible track record in the TV show? He's so damned smart through the first 4-5 seasons. Then pretty much every decision he makes ends up being wrong in major ways. Even in the finale... we don't see the ending of his conversation with Cersei, but it seems like she managed to play him convincingly... chalk up one more miss from Tyrion (although what choice did he have, I guess?) I'm not convinced Daenerys would have so much faith in him. He's supposed to be one of the smartest characters, who keeps getting outsmarted by everyone and their little sibling at least on the off-book show sequences.

I'm also not a fan of the way they handled the Winterfell/Littlefinger bit, mainly at Littlefinger's expense:


I didn't like the Stark sisters/Little Finger plot much either - it just didn't seem right that it played out the way it did. Sansa got over finding out her little sister collected flayed human faces really quick. It was like "Oh well, I guess everyone needs a hobby". I rather felt that alone should have been enough to drive a wedge between, even if Little Finger hadn't been there at all. It seemed like a complete reversal of Arya story arch - namely her slow slide into murderous insanity, without any clear explanation as to why.

I rather got the impression the writers didn't know what to do With Little Finger or Arya's story arch development, so they just killed them both as quickly as possible. I really hope her meeting with the hound develops into something more, because she seems rather irrelevant now.

Actually, I did enjoy their brief meeting. When he said "You're a cold little bitch aren't you, but I guess that's why you're still alive." I rather got the impression he was thinking he'd taught her a little too well. She's become rather like he was.
 

Totenkindly

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I was hoping this would end with a burning muppet head hanging from the ramparts in true GoT tradition.... alas.

 

Totenkindly

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Rather what i was saying before:
GoT showrunners reveal which character has changed the most

I didn't like the Stark sisters/Little Finger plot much either - it just didn't seem right that it played out the way it did. Sansa got over finding out her little sister collected flayed human faces really quick. It was like "Oh well, I guess everyone needs a hobby". I rather felt that alone should have been enough to drive a wedge between, even if Little Finger hadn't been there at all. It seemed like a complete reversal of Arya story arch - namely her slow slide into murderous insanity, without any clear explanation as to why.

I rather got the impression the writers didn't know what to do With Little Finger or Arya's story arch development, so they just killed them both as quickly as possible. I really hope her meeting with the hound develops into something more, because she seems rather irrelevant now.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the plan is, really... like instead of there being a true purpose for her, they'll wind her up to throw at a villain they are not sure how to handle since she is now an infiltrator with Valyrian steel. I mean, characters get used by this in stories all the time, it's just that in good works the artist/writer is less transparent about it and the character still has an arc, whereas it feels more like Arya's arc is over and now she's just a tool in the plot.



Again, it's like the perils of not having enough time to properly detail things in a way to make them more believable... but it seems like they weren't sure how to make them feel real given enough time, so they decided to rush forward and tie off anything they weren't sure what to do with.

Actually, I did enjoy their brief meeting. When he said "You're a cold little bitch aren't you, but I guess that's why you're still alive." I rather got the impression he was thinking he'd taught her a little too well. She's become rather like he was.

I was okay with much of the re-introductions considering all the characters they had less than an hour to work in. I thought they really captured the relationship in what amounted to, what, 60 secs of screen time? that one line is both a compliment and an advisory commentary simultaneously.
 

Lark

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I didn't like the Stark sisters/Little Finger plot much either - it just didn't seem right that it played out the way it did. Sansa got over finding out her little sister collected flayed human faces really quick. It was like "Oh well, I guess everyone needs a hobby". I rather felt that alone should have been enough to drive a wedge between, even if Little Finger hadn't been there at all. It seemed like a complete reversal of Arya story arch - namely her slow slide into murderous insanity, without any clear explanation as to why.

I rather got the impression the writers didn't know what to do With Little Finger or Arya's story arch development, so they just killed them both as quickly as possible. I really hope her meeting with the hound develops into something more, because she seems rather irrelevant now.

Actually, I did enjoy their brief meeting. When he said "You're a cold little bitch aren't you, but I guess that's why you're still alive." I rather got the impression he was thinking he'd taught her a little too well. She's become rather like he was.

I reckon that given what Sansa had been through by that point it wasnt really surprising what she was willing to forgive in a family member whose allegiance or trust she was able to count on.

Also I figure that Sansa wanted to kill LF for a long time at the point that she did, I did think that ultimately LF would be knocked off by the wizard/demon/eunnach guy but you know.
 

Z Buck McFate

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The thing I didn't like about the Sansa/Arya/LF arc is that I thought it was badly written. Good writing will leave veiled breadcrumbs leading up a conclusion - you won't realize something was almost inevitable until it happens, and it somehow even takes the viewer by surprise when it finally does. For example: at that big dinner Walder Frey had (to celebrate taking back Riverun), Bronn pointed out the new server girl to Jaime and it seemed like such a natural part of the discussion (Bronn pointed out how she was an example of women falling for Jaime's good looks) that it didn't attract attention. But then it turned out (later) to be Arya in disguise, and her attack on Frey felt weirdly simultaneously inevitable and surprising.

If the breadcrumbs leading up to the confrontation with LF had been better written, I'd had thought it an apt end for him. There were loads of breadcrumbs - like the camera zooming in on Arya or LF skulking around a dark corner - but there was nothing to foreshadow what actually happened. It just felt really phoned in.

I can't remember who said this (Agatha Christie maybe?), but as soon as an audience is surprised by a conclusion they should also immediately be thinking "of course!" - because the information they needed to put it together themselves will have been there all along, and they ignored it. If the information stands out so much that they put the conclusion together before it happens, that's no good either. It takes skill to veil important information. And anyway, it just seems to me like the LF arc used entirely wrong breadcrumbs.
 

Totenkindly

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Nice article if you have watched Episode 2.
Game of Thrones writer breaks down season 8, episode 2’s big scenes | EW.com

My opinion of tonight's episode is that, allowing that I still feel like there's just not enough time in the season to do everything justice (so we can't really have longer scenes between various character pairings unfortunately), in the space of an hour Cogman did a pretty decent job overall. there were some wonderful character resolution scenes, all the various relationships were kind of "making peace" with each other before the end.

Two of my favorite scenes:



We also get a little more verbosity out of Bran, even if he remains kind of aloof.

Anyway, I'm glad they dedicated an entire episode to the characters before everything goes to hell. I'm pretty sure some of them aren't coming out of this alive regardless of the victor. I think next week's episode is the longest episode of the season. I guess the question remains whether the Winterfellers kill the Night King next week, or whether they lose and have to retreat towards King's Landing for a rematch later in the season. It seems pretty clear that their only real option to defeat the army is to take out the NK.


Bonus point: Giant milk???? hahahaha. I can't be sure, but this immediately reminded me of that line from "Into the Woods" where Jack is singing about what happened when he climbs the beanstalk, it's almost verbatim.
 
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