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Game of Thrones!

ceecee

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Well, I thought last year was exciting because of the Eagles and all, but I just couldn't maintain interest this time.

The only part of the SB I watched was Chris Long getting his Walter Payton Man of the Year award. He's a very good guy and deserving of this award, I'm not sure if people know everything he does for others. Everything apparently went down hill after that. I did see the commercial, my take is that it's some kind of GoT/Dilly Dilly throwdown. I do like the fact that if you don't watch GoT, you don't get the commercial at all.

I'm actually wondering why Coors Light hasn't unleashed a hissy fit on all social media regarding the corn syrup Bud Light ad. But the corn farmers didn't let me down - they reacted EXACTLY as predicted. You would have thought someone was kneeling or something.
 

Totenkindly

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Found this, it's kind of amusing in delivery.

I agree with much of it, but I think there's a decent chance Bronn could live -- he's a minor character who is a fan fave and the showrunners really don't have the same degree of planning and balls as GRRM. (As an example.) I also think Sansa will survive.

What I really foresee is the clearing of the board. Daenerys vowed to break the wheel, and damn, but that is what is going to happen -- i think all major obvious successors to whatever remains is going to sweep each other off the board. Basically all the real contenders (irony abounds) manage to either unwittingly or knowingly (like in Jon's case) knock each other off the board, leaving behind the minor cast (a rep from each house, essentially) in terms of political power:

- Tyrion Lannister
- Sansa Stark
- Arya Stark (she's the freebie)
- Sam Tarly [rep of the scribes]
- Gendry Baratheon
- Reek, I mean, Theon Greyjoy
- Lyanna Mormont

I mean, look at it, they're all the "weakest" members of all the notable houses, the ones who people thought would never amount to anything or were considered bastards. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we went from a King/Queen ruler to a kind of governing body where each house gets a voice. The wheel is broken? Damn straight it is. It's too bad about the Tyrells and the Martells. :(

- Brienne of Tarth
She'll likely live and be the equivalent of the sergeant at arms so to speak -- what she always wanted, the position of head of the kingsguard so to speak.
- Podrick - I think he'll live too

A lot of deaths otherwise though. The Hound will kill his brother for good and die in the process, and it will both sad and comforting.

There won't be a need for the Wall anymore, since the Wall is destroyed plus the Night King situation will be ended regardless.

All the dragons will be dead.
 

Lafave

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The only part of the SB I watched was which probiotics for gut health work the best and Chris Long getting his Walter Payton Man of the Year award. He's a very good guy and deserving of this award, I'm not sure if people know everything he does for others. Everything apparently went down hill after that. I did see the commercial, my take is that it's some kind of GoT/Dilly Dilly throwdown. I do like the fact that if you don't watch GoT, you don't get the commercial at all.

I'm actually wondering why Coors Light hasn't unleashed a hissy fit on all social media regarding the corn syrup Bud Light ad. But the corn farmers didn't let me down - they reacted EXACTLY as predicted. You would have thought someone was kneeling or something.

Sick trailer. My body is ready for this! haha
 
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Totenkindly

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I'm kinda ready for it to be over, for good or bad. It's been dragging out far too long.

Maybe we should do a "hero ladder" contest and make bets on who will take out who and who will be last character standing. ROFL.

Or see who guesses the right answer to questions like:

1. Does Cersei live? If not, who kills her?
2. Will there be a Westeros? If so, who will lead it?
3. Who will become leader of the Greyjoys?
4. Does the Hound fight and kill his brother?
5. Is that really The Mountain under that armor or just a bloated Ned Stark with his head reattached? hahahaha
6. Does Hot Pie become Royal Pastry Chef of Westeros?
7. Is the whole series actually just a retelling by Sam Tarly in the great library?
8. Do all the dragons die by the end?
9. Does the Night King die? Who kills him?

and so on.


Personally, about Daenyres:
 

Totenkindly

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speaking of littlefinger: I finally watched Bohemian Rhapsody last night, and when Aidan Gillen shows up to be their manager, I watched to scream at the screen, "NO! DON'T TRUST HIM!"
 

Totenkindly

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Decided to watch as much of the priors season again as I could, before mid-April.

At this point I know all the characters extremely well, and it's a very cohesive nuanced experience just watching the first two episodes of Season 1 (along with how interesting it is to see the characters so much younger... I mean, the actors are 8-9 years younger than the upcoming season).

When you know the characters and the full arcs for each, there's so much resonance even in the early episodes and I'm surprised by the nuance of relationship between the various characters. They also do a good job of building tension (about the impending winter) and managing to get all the main characters together in the first episode aside from Daenyres who is overseas. But everything is established -- how each of the characters feels about each of the others, etc. It's really well-put-together; the main issue is simply that if you're completely new to the story, it's still overwhelming and you don't realize that everything being said is actually important rather than just filler.

I can't really overstate the nuance. They really managed to put together the right scenes to that you immediately grasp how all the characters feel about each of the other characters. You see how each of the Lannister kids view each other; you see how each of the Stark kids view each other; you see how they are each viewed by people outside their family; you see how Kat feels about Jon; the secondary characters and their roles are established; you have a sense of the northern threat immediately; you see how Theon behaves (which will tempered by his later behavior); there's the foreshadowing of Jon's heritage.

I mean, all these little scenes are short and organic, but say a TON about the characters. For example Sansa:


There's a lot of pathos too around Daenyres, who is basically a very young, uncertain girl lacking confidence. But she holds herself like a queen even then and is very beautiful in an almost artistic fashion. You can see her future glory in her, and she develops her confidence as she embraces her bad situation... so that she will very soon surpass her craven brother.


----

Episode 3:

- A raven lands on Bran's windowsill before being shooed off.

- Jorah to talking to a random Dothraki, they are debating the value of speed vs armor; the Dothraki obviously believes speed is the most important but Jorah begs to differ. (This becomes relevant, oh, in Season 4.)

- We get quite an earful from Baelish this episode, to compare with what we find out later.

- I think it's hilarious how Visyres is so obsessed with getting his army that he sells his sister as a child bride to a Dothraki ruler -- then realizes belatedly she is now an insider and one with authority because of her marriage, while he has no power at all. Tables turned, boyo.
 
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Totenkindly

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About to finish Season 4 now (which to me was the end of the Golden Age of GoT -- in Season 5, I'll have to suffer through that whole damn mangled Dorne plot, I think). I capped last night with the climactic duel for Tyrion's life. It's so well done, honestly. I watch Walking Dead, there's no real tension, it's all the same old stuff ad nauseum -- but this fight meanwhile, you really can't tell what's going to happen and it jerks you all over the place. But it's really the emotional investment that makes it sing... I care about the people. (The same episode has Sansa moving from being a one-dimensional-thinking silly teenage girl to someone who has been absorbing grief and the hard life lessons esp through Littlefinger and she shows her first signs of true, rational cunning.)

I had forgotten about Tyrion's virulent speech at his trial. Again, just the acting and writing is pretty phenomenal, when he asks Shae not to, and she plunges ahead and Tyrion loses it. The HBO repository includes director commentary on a few episode scenes each time, which is nice to hear their perception of the characters, and they're pretty spot on with it... despite his natural grace, Tyrion has a really hard time with stupid people and vindictive/unfair people, and usually he gets away with beating them down, but on occasion he doesn't rein it in and he gets himself in trouble rather than behaving as rationally as he could... and this is one of those sweet moments where he really should have kept his mouth shut but it felt so good to tell everyone what he truly thought.

But one of the best parts for me was Oberyn's explanation to Tyrion when he visits him while Tyrion is struggling to be a champion. The whole season does a great job in establishing Oberyn as a character, who is both fierce and unyielding but also free and broad-minded... and often so soft-spoken in his delivery while offering cutting words. I really love the guy, I tear up every time I hear the story of how he met Tyrion when they were both children. Tyrion has met oppression his entire life, everyone's been kicking him like a broken cur, he's at the end of his rope... and Oberyn visits him with a story that SOUNDS like yet one more "Tyrion is a monster and will never fit in" when it starts and then becomes a completely different story that both reinforces his understanding of how his family has treated him and yet how there are some people who see Tyrion very different. There is such empathy and fairness and openness in Oberyn's words, despite his hatred of the Lannisters. Such a beautiful scene and like a kernel of hope in darkness. (When GoT is good, it's that good. When it's not, it becomes rather lazy, incoherent, and conventional.) [Also, when you know what's going to happen, you can see the setup for it throughout the season. I should have realized who was going to champion Tyrion early on.]

It's even neat to compare Tommen to Geoffrey, in terms of personality and leadership styles. I'll stop rambling because I'm saying a lot without saying much, but... these first four seasons are just so well done with the acting and the writing and often the staging. But now I'm about to leave the Golden Era and move into the Silver or maybe the Tin Era, lol.
 

ceecee

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About to finish Season 4 now (which to me was the end of the Golden Age of GoT -- in Season 5, I'll have to suffer through that whole damn mangled Dorne plot, I think). I capped last night with the climactic duel for Tyrion's life. It's so well done, honestly. I watch Walking Dead, there's no real tension, it's all the same old stuff ad nauseum -- but this fight meanwhile, you really can't tell what's going to happen and it jerks you all over the place. But it's really the emotional investment that makes it sing... I care about the people. (The same episode has Sansa moving from being a one-dimensional-thinking silly teenage girl to someone who has been absorbing grief and the hard life lessons esp through Littlefinger and she shows her first signs of true, rational cunning.)

I had forgotten about Tyrion's virulent speech at his trial. Again, just the acting and writing is pretty phenomenal, when he asks Shae not to, and she plunges ahead and Tyrion loses it. The HBO repository includes director commentary on a few episode scenes each time, which is nice to hear their perception of the characters, and they're pretty spot on with it... despite his natural grace, Tyrion has a really hard time with stupid people and vindictive/unfair people, and usually he gets away with beating them down, but on occasion he doesn't rein it in and he gets himself in trouble rather than behaving as rationally as he could... and this is one of those sweet moments where he really should have kept his mouth shut but it felt so good to tell everyone what he truly thought.

But one of the best parts for me was Oberyn's explanation to Tyrion when he visits him while Tyrion is struggling to be a champion. The whole season does a great job in establishing Oberyn as a character, who is both fierce and unyielding but also free and broad-minded... and often so soft-spoken in his delivery while offering cutting words. I really love the guy, I tear up every time I hear the story of how he met Tyrion when they were both children. Tyrion has met oppression his entire life, everyone's been kicking him like a broken cur, he's at the end of his rope... and Oberyn visits him with a story that SOUNDS like yet one more "Tyrion is a monster and will never fit in" when it starts and then becomes a completely different story that both reinforces his understanding of how his family has treated him and yet how there are some people who see Tyrion very different. There is such empathy and fairness and openness in Oberyn's words, despite his hatred of the Lannisters. Such a beautiful scene and like a kernel of hope in darkness. (When GoT is good, it's that good. When it's not, it becomes rather lazy, incoherent, and conventional.) [Also, when you know what's going to happen, you can see the setup for it throughout the season. I should have realized who was going to champion Tyrion early on.]

It's even neat to compare Tommen to Geoffrey, in terms of personality and leadership styles. I'll stop rambling because I'm saying a lot without saying much, but... these first four seasons are just so well done with the acting and the writing and often the staging. But now I'm about to leave the Golden Era and move into the Silver or maybe the Tin Era, lol.

For me, this is where Peter Dinklage moved from great to phenomenal.

Also, a person that I follow on Twitter (blue checkmark, not a celeb but semi famous), started watching GoT recently and at first was not blown away. Everyone kept telling her to stick with it. She is into Season 3 now and tweeting in all caps...

"WHY DIDN’T Y’ALL WARN ME EVERYBODY I LIKED WAS GONNA DIE IN ONE EPISODE???"

and then...

"Meanwhile Joffrey is still breathing, and I’m besides myself."

It's really fun to watch someone evolve into a fan like this.
 

ceecee

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Oh and if you haven't seen, this is a product that exists.

715lTR9YCGL._SX466_.jpg
 

Totenkindly

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Continuing to blow ahead on this. In the middle of s6e2 ("Home") right now.

it's interesting to watch it all in one fell swoop (i.e., over a period of a few weeks) rather than on a weekly and then seasonal basis, as I get the sense of the story in a continuing stream rather than with all the delays. As one aspect of this, it kind of shocked me that so much of an individual storyline can happen over a relatively short period of time within the story itself.

(For example, Jon's trip to Hardhome and back to his eventual fate took half a season but in terms of plot events, he leaves Castle Black, reaches Hardhome, comes back with Wildlings, and then well, we all know what happens -- it's really not much plot there even though it took 5 episodes. The same goes for Stannis' army -- he gets this huge army, and his first real fight which isn't much of a fight happens at the wall against the wildings, resulting in the capture of Mance. Then all he basically gets to do is ride south, get stuck in the snow, then there's the big plot blowout -- then the fight at Winterfell which isn't even really shown on screen, we catch the aftermath. But it takes an ENTIRE SEASON for this to play out. So it felt a lot longer than it was in terms of plot.)

Some shifting impressions, for example I remember despising Cersei through much of the initial watch as the series unfolded over time. Watching it in one stream, though, and especially knowing where she ends up -- I felt far more sympathy for her now / she didn't bother me nearly as much. I understand her, even if I could not act the way she acts. Tyrion comes off less warm in the first season or two; he's still a 'decent' person in terms of his ability to empathize, but he's rather jaded, detached, and unnecessarily blunt in a way that can come off as either mean or indifferent; this is more of a nuance of perception, though.

Season 4 ends with a few key deaths but feels hopeful; Season 5 ends similarly with a few key deaths but feels laden with despair and "what the hell happens next."

My biggest gripes about a season were mainly about Season 5 -- in my head it had been the "worst" season. This is primarily for (1) Dorne, which is just a shitshow of terrible plotting, wasted characters, overhype, etc. and (2) the Meereen stuff wasn't that exciting, and it also involves a huge book deviation that seems solely to simplify plotting for the writers but does a huge injustice towards one character in particular. But there's still a lot of good stuff in Season 5 aside from the gaffs. And I really think it was a great idea to show Cersei again trying to weaponize something in the social order of things, that ends up biting her badly on the ass. ("When I voted for the Face-Eating Leopard party, I didn't know they were going to eat my face too!")

I would consider "Hardhome" one of the best episodes of the series. Not only are there some memorable sideplots (like where Dani talks about "Breaking the wheel") but the last half hour was an unexpected gift. Jon reaches Hardhome and this entire sequence is "off-book" and actually something that is on par with or better than much of the book stuff. The way it's shot, the way it builds dread, the interactions leading up to it -- it's really like a horror action sequence, it uses conventions of both genres and it knows exactly how to build tension. It's just crazy good and contributes to our understanding of the series' central approaching conflict. And best of all, IT WAS NOT ANNOUNCED -- it came totally out of the blue ("Jon goes traveling" is the summary, and it wasn't promo'ed as something great, it just... aired). It's one of those things that will stick in my head regardless of how the series plays out, as an example of a great unnerving action plot point.

But Dorne, well... Dorne. Just awful. About the only good thing is the bit in the finale between Jaime and Myrcella, it was touching and Jaime needed something good in his life. (So we know how that works out for people in this series.)

There's still some dumb shit that creeps in. Like when a weakened Theon stabs (STABS) a guy in chainmail ( am pretty sure it was chain) with a longsword (which is a slashing weapon mostly) in the back WHILE the guy is wearing a shield covering almost all of his back and drops him in one shot... MAYBE he could have driven a poniard through the links, but a longsword? and the shield covered anything really that would allowed for a one-shot drop. But it's followed by this extremely touching moment with Brienne and Sansa (where Sansa needs help for her part from Podrick), so it compensates a bit.

It's also chilling to see Cersei threaten the septa, knowing what's going to happen in the end.

(Typically the acting is great as well as directing, but there's occasionally a gaff -- like the response of Stannis' wife in the climactic scene of s5e9.... where she seems one way, then flips, and it just emotionally doesn't feel warranted. They really needed to write/direct that better. )

Anyway, I guess now it's basically watching s6 and s7 to see if overall either is worse in my head compared to s5, which for long stuck in my head as a dark spot. I think it's because they just really bombed Dorne.

side note about Shireen

 

Totenkindly

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[True] Love will find a way

Joe-Jonas-Sophie-Turner.jpg





I did make it through -- I'm on s7e5 now (so, basically, three episodes to go before Season 8).

The retrospective is interesting, I think overall I like Season 7 the least (after the Dorne / Meereen segments of Season 5). It's not that there are not some good moments (and I think this is what shows up on the rewatch -- often there are episodes with a few really great sequences but then the remaining sequences are lackluster, boring, and/or not written well), it's mainly that the show's focus and tone changed a bit.

Basically it went from a real-feeling series existing on the detail level, to more of a regular prime time high-concept show in Season 7. So the dialogue can at times be high-level rather than down to earth, it's basically hitting the "summary" of the scene rather than feeling like actual life, actual people. This fits with how people are just skipping all over the map to hit all the right plot points in a shortened amount of time. There's also a lot of overexplanation -- rather than letting the audience exist with the characters, there's often a lot of useless speech (in terms of how we actually talk) that is like a high-concept explanation of who characters are, why they are there, and what they are trying to accomplish. I guess this is great in terms of marketing the show to new watchers, but it's a short-term gain -- it reduces the dramatic quality in the long-term retrospective.

Overall I feel like if they had had the writing up to snuff, they could have benefited from an extra few episodes / one extra season, to take things at a reasonable rather than sketchy pace, to keep the tonal quality and angle the same. It's the same feeling when you have a term paper that is all high-concept but short on detail, and they are just hitting a few broad points without much more to say, versus someone writing about something they know well, and they can build a much clearer and stronger argument.

Season 6 felt a bit more cohesive than Season 5 in terms of quality, although it still had its dumb moments. (like how badly Arya got hurt by the waif, yet could do olympic level stunts running through the city streets that should have been beyond her ability and would have also killed a normal person... and hey, what about sepsis/infection? It was just crazy... and it's stuff that could have easily been fixed by tweaking the injury. This unrealism is anti-GRRM, it's one of those signs the show was shifting into more like a DC-superhero TV universe.)
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I remember something in one of the previewed Theon chapters for TWOW that pointed to this. (Theon evidently winds up with Stannis's army in this case, and Sansa is still in the Vale in the book.) Stannis's fate in the show felt really rushed. There are some indications that he might meet a similar fate in TWOW; I expect it'll work a bit better.

[True] Love will find a way

Joe-Jonas-Sophie-Turner.jpg





I did make it through -- I'm on s7e5 now (so, basically, three episodes to go before Season 8).

The retrospective is interesting, I think overall I like Season 7 the least (after the Dorne / Meereen segments of Season 5). It's not that there are not some good moments (and I think this is what shows up on the rewatch -- often there are episodes with a few really great sequences but then the remaining sequences are lackluster, boring, and/or not written well), it's mainly that the show's focus and tone changed a bit.

Basically it went from a real-feeling series existing on the detail level, to more of a regular prime time high-concept show in Season 7. So the dialogue can at times be high-level rather than down to earth, it's basically hitting the "summary" of the scene rather than feeling like actual life, actual people. This fits with how people are just skipping all over the map to hit all the right plot points in a shortened amount of time. There's also a lot of overexplanation -- rather than letting the audience exist with the characters, there's often a lot of useless speech (in terms of how we actually talk) that is like a high-concept explanation of who characters are, why they are there, and what they are trying to accomplish. I guess this is great in terms of marketing the show to new watchers, but it's a short-term gain -- it reduces the dramatic quality in the long-term retrospective.

Overall I feel like if they had had the writing up to snuff, they could have benefited from an extra few episodes / one extra season, to take things at a reasonable rather than sketchy pace, to keep the tonal quality and angle the same. It's the same feeling when you have a term paper that is all high-concept but short on detail, and they are just hitting a few broad points without much more to say, versus someone writing about something they know well, and they can build a much clearer and stronger argument.

Season 6 felt a bit more cohesive than Season 5 in terms of quality, although it still had its dumb moments. (like how badly Arya got hurt by the waif, yet could do olympic level stunts running through the city streets that should have been beyond her ability and would have also killed a normal person... and hey, what about sepsis/infection? It was just crazy... and it's stuff that could have easily been fixed by tweaking the injury. This unrealism is anti-GRRM, it's one of those signs the show was shifting into more like a DC-superhero TV universe.)

I think the thing I dislike the most about season 7 is what they did with Tyrion by making him a gullible idiot who suddenly trusts Cersei. Out of everyone around he's the one who knows the most about what Cersei is actually like (and probably has the biggest reason to hate her specifically beyond an abstract concept of "the Lannisters"), and that stupid plan was his idea. I know I've complained about this before, but it sort of ruined my favorite character. I could deal with him being less morally ambiguous than the books, but displaying that level of stupidity and naivete is kind of unforgivable. Making strategic blunders with military forces is one thing (it's not like I'm some master strategist), but that Cersei thing.... it's so DUMB. Perhaps it could be redeemed somewhat if he switches sides this season, although it will come off as rather sudden. If that's the case it's probably something that would make more sense with where we leave the book version of Tyrion.

Most of the shocking moments in Season 6 weren't really that shocking and felt obviously like them trying to simplify things for the end game, and they didn't really come that organically. "Ok, we're starting a new season, so we gotta kill Alexander Siddiq even though it doesn't really make sense, and we gotta kill Papa Bolton even though it doesn't make sense." I think the one exception to that was the sept explosion, which I suppose served the same purpose, but it was foreshadowed throughout the season , felt like a climax the season was building to, made sense for the characters involved, and was well done artistically.
 

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Too farfetched or too smart for the show, this could be epic:

Thought he was the best character so I'll be disappointed if this isn't true. Like was the greatest player of all really bested by Sansa, even despite all the ample warnings he was given beforehand? Doesn't seem right considering that he saved Sansa/ Jon snow in the battle for Winterfell.
 

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I think the show really let down the intellect of both Tyrion and Littlefinger. They both used to be very smart, but pretty much everything Tyrion has done since joining Dani has bombed; meanwhile Littlefinger used to be very crafty and nuanced in his machinations, he could smell a trap a mile away. Ever since they went off book, he has been kind of on the nose and one dimensional. This was late in the game, but at the very least as soon as Bran corrected him to "chaos is a ladder," he should have been running; even Renly knew when to hightail it.

As far as Robin goes, there is a time to do the unexpected but some unexpected things should never be done. If Robin becomes king, I will never rewatch this series. I'm in part expecting Sansa and/or Gendry to be leading Westeros honestly.
 

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That's the last time I do a concerted Game of Thrones blitz.

Finished the Season 7 finale last night after blowing through all the episodes in probably a little over 3 weeks, then had a prolonged dream (and I never usually remember my dreams) where I hooked up with Jon Snow in a lengthy affair beyond the realm of good taste.

At least it wasn't with Theon or Ramsay.
 

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I'm kinda ready for it to be over, for good or bad. It's been dragging out far too long.

Maybe we should do a "hero ladder" contest and make bets on who will take out who and who will be last character standing. ROFL.

Or see who guesses the right answer to questions like:

1. Does Cersei live? If not, who kills her?
2. Will there be a Westeros? If so, who will lead it?
3. Who will become leader of the Greyjoys?
4. Does the Hound fight and kill his brother?
5. Is that really The Mountain under that armor or just a bloated Ned Stark with his head reattached? hahahaha
6. Does Hot Pie become Royal Pastry Chef of Westeros?
7. Is the whole series actually just a retelling by Sam Tarly in the great library?
8. Do all the dragons die by the end?
9. Does the Night King die? Who kills him?

and so on.


Personally, about Daenyres:

Apropos of nothing, halfway through reading these questions I realized I was hearing them as read by the narrator from Soap - that 70s (or 80s) sitcom, the way every episode ended with the narrator asking questions about what might happen next - complete with the whimsical music. And something about that felt right.

Eta:
 
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