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  1. #1061
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think she did. I thought that was pretty clear.

  2. #1062
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    (I thought Mountain was dead but apparently "they can rebuild him.")
    And like Cersei asked the "Maester", "Will it weaken him?" And, he gleefully chuckles, that that won't be the issue.

    He's coming back, meaner, stronger, and way less human (read: soul-less, cold - and if you can imagine what the Mountain was like to begin with, this is a terrifying thought. Hence, the Hound cannot die until the Mountain is put down, forever.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I hope he takes the Mountain out With Fire.
    Funny you mention that, I had the exact same thought. He's going to take them BOTH out, by fire. Murder-suicide. He will conquer his fear of fire, because it is trumped by his hatred for his brother.

  3. #1063
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I loved their interaction. It was so poignant. The reluctant teacher and the reluctant student finally comes to a head, where the teacher becomes the student, and the student delivers the hard-learned lessons.

    Arya taking the Hound's silver coins, as he took from that poor father who wanted the Hound's protection, and the Hound "teaching" Arya, the hard-knocks of life, "Dead men don't need silver." Brilliant!

    Arya walking away: (1) He is not her kill anymore, and she begrudgingly likes him, a little bit, (2) She will kill on her own terms, not because someone wants it/begging for it. Control. The Hound is finally left powerless, and Arya gains that power.
    Beautiful assessment, and I like the way you referred back to that lesson with the silver. I think that's what they were going for.

    In general, the episode titles are well-named and they try (when they do multiple plotline shows) to emphasize a particular angle that resonates in all the different lines.

    So the title here "The Children" was overtly mentioned in the Bran plotline, with the little girl throwing fire; but pretty much the entire episode tracks the "children" of the show resolving (or not) their relationships with parental figures.

    - Dani and her dragons (and the man who lost his daughter)

    - Stannis asking Jon what he would have done, as his father's (Ned's) son. Jon has been growing into a man so much throughout this season and mainly because he's had to make hard scary decisions and then act on them, for the good of everyone he cares about, and so far he's done Ned proud. (I liked Robb; but I think Jon is stronger and more true.)

    - All three Lannister kids essentially telling Tywin to screw off, they're going their own way now.

    - Arya and the Hound (who was obviously acting in some ways like a surrogate father); and Brienne pulling out the Catelyn card, in a sense acting as an extension of Arya's mother.

    Basically all of the kids grew up this week.

    The only one we didn't see was Sansa, but she had her moment of growth two episodes ago, as was heavily discussed.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #1064
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    ^I just made almost the same point in a Facebook post. GMTA.

    I guess I have no choice but to read these damn books now.

  5. #1065
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Not to the best of my recollection. But the circumstances are different in the book so its kind of a mute point. It's just an educated guess of mine, but Arya grew attached to him in the time they spent together.


    Well, I mean "ambiguous" in the sense that it was clear that she had grown close to him (we saw that when she tried to treat his wound a little ways back and take care of him), but he was still on her list and she's become somewhat ruthless and pragmatic.

    So here, in those moments where she's just looking at him -- there's such a wealth of possibility over what she's feeling and thinking and deciding, and I just found myself wondering what was going to happen.

    I thought her decision was beautiful.

    Along with the silver thing, though, there was another lesson where she and The Hound finished off the wounded man who wasn't going to survive his gut wound. The Hound killed the man, and quickly. Here, she makes her own decision, even while the odds of the Hound surviving his infection AND getting back to a safe place to be tended and recover seem pretty slim. What lesson did she learn from that encounter? She obviously learned something from the "silver" encounter.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #1066
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I think what she was doing there (beyond taking the silver for her own needs) was, on some level, attempting to reassure the Hound that she would be okay because he had taught her well and she had absorbed the lessons.

  7. #1067
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Funny you mention that, I had the exact same thought. He's going to take them BOTH out, by fire. Murder-suicide. He will conquer his fear of fire, because it is trumped by his hatred for his brother.
    Interesting. It would definitely bring closure and would be a victory in so many ways for the Hound. It was one of the reasons where the fight with Oberyn didn't feel right -- because narratively The Hound and The Mountain should be the ones facing off. it was foreshadowed early as well, when The Hound intervenes to stop the Mountain from killing Loras. These two brothers need to one day settle things, once and for all.

    And the fire motif is the most obvious. The Hound not only could beat and stop his brother but would be rising above that scarring incident as a child.

    Also, I think my predictions about Dorne are gonna happen, due to the Mountain's confession during combat. It's a political nightmare that Tywin in a sense has been fortunate enough to escape. Westeros would have had to punish the Mountain for his crimes in some way, but the Mountain can now never be recalled to justice per se. Dorne won't be happy about that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I think what she was doing there (beyond taking the silver for her own needs) was, on some level, attempting to reassure the Hound that she would be okay because he had taught her well and she had absorbed the lessons.
    Well, he didn't seem very reassured.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #1068
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Beautiful assessment, and I like the way you referred back to that lesson with the silver. I think that's what they were going for.

    In general, the episode titles are well-named and they try (when they do multiple plotline shows) to emphasize a particular angle that resonates in all the different lines.

    So the title here "The Children" was overtly mentioned in the Bran plotline, with the little girl throwing fire; but pretty much the entire episode tracks the "children" of the show resolving (or not) their relationships with parental figures.

    - Dani and her dragons (and the man who lost his daughter)

    - Stannis asking Jon what he would have done, as his father's (Ned's) son. Jon has been growing into a man so much throughout this season and mainly because he's had to make hard scary decisions and then act on them, for the good of everyone he cares about, and so far he's done Ned proud. (I liked Robb; but I think Jon is stronger and more true.)

    - All three Lannister kids essentially telling Tywin to screw off, they're going their own way now.

    - Arya and the Hound (who was obviously acting in some ways like a surrogate father); and Brienne pulling out the Catelyn card, in a sense acting as an extension of Arya's mother.

    Basically all of the kids grew up this week.

    The only one we didn't see was Sansa, but she had her moment of growth two episodes ago, as was heavily discussed.
    Nice!! Really good outline of the relevance of the title: "The Children". I think it's also foreshadowed by the little girl who Bran et al. meet, where she explains that they are called the "children" but that they are older (read: wiser) than any others living. Out of the mouths of babes. All the children have to not only outgrow the shadows of their parents, but come onto their own, their own purpose. Very clearly manifested by all the Stark children.

    Aside:

    The poor dragons!

    The mean one who kills the goat and the girl is still out there. One of the three dragons is rebelling against Danearys, not all of them.

    Haha, yeah, the Lannister kids finally growing some backbone and telling Daddy Dearest to fuck-off, was the beginning of the end for Tywin. I will miss him. He was brilliantly evil. I just wish he knew that he had Arya right under his nose, before he died. Just to take his ego down a peg or two.

    The only one we didn't see was Sansa, but she had her moment of growth two episodes ago, as was heavily discussed.
    I'm really interested to see where they take Sansa. I have a feeling she will go over to the dark side, for good. How delicious will it be? For a Stark to succumb to the dark side?

    I have another question: What is the rule of a Trial by Combat if both dies? Is the person whose champion dies still sentenced to death, even if the other side also died? I know that Tyrion was sentenced to death, but I feel like there's a loophole here, which is why Cersei was so adamant to not let the Mountain die.

  9. #1069
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Haha, yeah, the Lannister kids finally growing some backbone and telling Daddy Dearest to fuck-off, was the beginning of the end for Tywin. I will miss him. He was brilliantly evil.
    LAWFUL NEUTRAL. Didn't you read the showrunners' joke about that?

    I just wish he knew that he had Arya right under his nose, before he died. Just to take his ego down a peg or two.
    Oh, I had forgotten about that! Yes, I wanted SO bad for Tywin to realize he had been fooled so horribly ... by a child. That was hilarious.

    She fooled the Mountain too.

    I'm really interested to see where they take Sansa. I have a feeling she will go over to the dark side, for good. How delicious will it be? For a Stark to succumb to the dark side?
    Maybe she's just bathing in the Dark SIde, and at the end once she screws Littlefinger over she'll take a shower and be clean once more.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #1070
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I kind of wish they had explained more about the Children of the Forest. They should do more with them, because that was too brief.

    I liked the design of the cave, though. That was appropriately spooky.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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