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Game of Thrones!

Totenkindly

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Good article. It gives words to some of what I've been feeling.

I didn't really read the books (just a few excerpts of interest) but I know GRRM's reputation and I noticed a distinct quality in the story plotting once the show went 'off book.' Too many things felt generalized and done to create some kind of dramatic scene versus making sense. Maybe that's why I was laughing last night through much of the episode. For example, Dany is ripping into Varys mainly to rip into Varys to create a feeling of danger and set up Varys speech about how committed he is to Westeros but not to a ruler. It wasn't that it was poorly written or acted, but it just felt kind of over-the-top and done for the drama quotient rather than because it necessarily made sense. When Uncle Crazypants crashed into the ships from out of the mist, I was like, "This is ridiculous, how did he even know where they were?" But of course he did. Because he might even just accidentally run into them just leaving the port of King's Landing, with all the ship traffic through that bay area. Durrr.....

With an understanding of geography, yes, it does feel kind of dumb to have Dany go to Dragonstone. But of course she had to. Because they had to have that scene of her entering the keep, and they need her to be there to be accessible to Jon Snow when he rides down, and she needs to have control of the Dragonglass so that she and Jon can make an alliance and forge weapons to fight the undead army, and... well, there's all the plotting, very blatant and very obvious, and details and sensibilities are overlooked. The trick for an author is to mask your intentions even if you DO have a plan -- the characters still have to be making the decisions and doing what is in their best interest or according to their personalities regardless of what lofty plans the writer has for the story -- but here I've been feeling a lot in the last season and this (and even some of season five) that it's really just about this plot, so how do we move characters to where they need to be to enact the plot? It's the predictability of it all that is annoying, and I don't really feel like characters are getting their just desserts or doing what is natural to them.

I totally agree on the thing between Sansa and Jon, there is no reason for it to happen so publicly but hey it keeps happening. Because they need someone to stir the pot plot-wise.

My joke about Arya getting her hand bitten off by Nymeria... well, wouldn't that make sense? The last time that wolf and she spent time together, she threw rocks at it to chase it off. Yes, she did it for Nymeria's own good, but would the wolf have known that at such a young age? Maybe or maybe not. Most of the time though, when you put down your weapon and approach an alpha wolf, what does the alpha wolf do especially if it remembers you drove it away with rocks years ago? I guess we'll see that on a Simpsons' episode some day but not here. But it's kind of the same thing, things should happen because of what people do or don't do; people's greatest enemies are themselves.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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For example, Dany is ripping into Varys mainly to rip into Varys to create a feeling of danger and set up Varys speech about how committed he is to Westeros but not to a ruler. It wasn't that it was poorly written or acted, but it just felt kind of over-the-top and done for the drama quotient rather than because it necessarily made sense.

I thought that too but I think they did that for the audience to not question her lack of suspicion towards Melisandre. What's good for one is good for the other sort of logic.


I totally agree on the thing between Sansa and Jon, there is no reason for it to happen so publicly but hey it keeps happening. Because they need someone to stir the pot plot-wise.
 

Totenkindly

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yes, the segues in this episode were actually quite lovely and often amusing, at least. :)





EDIT:

This Theory About Samwell Tarly Is The Only Game Of Thrones Fan Theory I Believe

We've already discussed this here in the past (including the entire opening sequence and what it represents), and it's a fair guess. In fact, it's the kind of theory that if I were writing the books, I would probably incorporate into the books even if I hadn't planned on it because it makes too much sense.
 

Beorn

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My joke about Arya getting her hand bitten off by Nymeria... well, wouldn't that make sense? The last time that wolf and she spent time together, she threw rocks at it to chase it off. Yes, she did it for Nymeria's own good, but would the wolf have known that at such a young age? Maybe or maybe not. Most of the time though, when you put down your weapon and approach an alpha wolf, what does the alpha wolf do especially if it remembers you drove it away with rocks years ago? I guess we'll see that on a Simpsons' episode some day but not here. But it's kind of the same thing, things should happen because of what people do or don't do; people's greatest enemies are themselves.

In the show did all the starks have warg connections with their direwolves? They did in the books. You would think that connection would be stronger than whatever happened when they separated. But I mostly think that this scene and the hot pie scene are just a means to break up Arya's killing spree.

Of course her lines to Hot Pie about making one or two pies was lol funny.

Edit: Checked a wiki and I guess I remembered wrongly. I think in the books there were just allusions that starks besides bran might be wargs since I'm pretty sure they had dreams of their wolves at night. At least I think Arya did.
 

Totenkindly

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The show didn't really suggest any warg ability except for Bran and for that wilding warg a few seasons ago. Some speculated he would survive his assassination by warging into Ghost, but it seems it was all the Red Woman to thank for his return.
 

Forever

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This is for last season's game of thrones but I found it so funny


Note: Don't watch if you haven't seen some of Season 6 yet.
 

Qre:us

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This Theory About Samwell Tarly Is The Only Game Of Thrones Fan Theory I Believe
We've already discussed this here in the past (including the entire opening sequence and what it represents), and it's a fair guess. In fact, it's the kind of theory that if I were writing the books, I would probably incorporate into the books even if I hadn't planned on it because it makes too much sense.
Yes, makes perfect sense. He's the knowledge keeper. The witness to the generations. But, whose story (or stories) is he telling?

I keep coming back to another story that remains incomplete. That of filling the blank, and skipped, parts of the book documenting the knights’ heroic deeds. I am very, very curious about how the series/story will address that hanging point. Who will finish/write in this book? And at the end of our story, what will it say?
I have a wild and far-fetched theory about that, the one I’m calling the King Arthur Angle. Lol. Also the tragic love story angle.

It’s a long winded explanation but I may post in the near future.

Also agree with others, that at this point on the screen, it is less a service to nuanced character development than moving plot along. 2 seasons left. Either way, has been a pretty enjoyable ride!
 

Andy

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I liked this episode until the last scene and a half.


I think the scene with the wolves/worgs was supposed to be a foreshadow of events to come. Wolves have always been used to represent the starks. When her worg turned it's back on her, it was a warning that the other starks are going to reject Arya too, once they realise she's become a psychotic, mass murdering, face stealing monster. That girl has changed.

On the point of Arya, I'm waiting for her to meet up with the Hound again. There's definitely unfinished business there. He's duty bound to pull her out of the darkness, just as she once reminded him of his humanity.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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The show didn't really suggest any warg ability except for Bran and for that wilding warg a few seasons ago. Some speculated he would survive his assassination by warging into Ghost, but it seems it was all the Red Woman to thank for his return.

That's what I assumed, too. There's a chapter in the book told from the perspective of a character called Varamyr Six Skins that implies that when wargs die, they can end up in the body of one of the animals they warg in to. I'm surprised the show didn't go there.
 

Forever

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I just had a thought... what if Sansa just becomes the queen after all? Nobody's like expecting it. Cercei defeats daenerys and then for a while Cercei is at the top of her evil and then bam littlefinger gets so enraged, he kills cercei hand to hand combat knowing that's the only thing he can be good at. And Sansa just is like "hey, I guess I'm the queen now" (in your best Sansa voice you can imagine)

Tyrion serves as the new hand of the queen. And Sansa just takes one dragon for herself (the others being dead)

Let's see if any of this comes true by the end of season 8 or even 7? :p
 

Riva

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I just had a thought... what if Sansa just becomes the queen after all? Nobody's like expecting it. Cercei defeats daenerys and then for a while Cercei is at the top of her evil and then bam littlefinger gets so enraged, he kills cercei hand to hand combat knowing that's the only thing he can be good at. And Sansa just is like "hey, I guess I'm the queen now" (in your best Sansa voice you can imagine)

Tyrion serves as the new hand of the queen. And Sansa just takes one dragon for herself (the others being dead)

Let's see if any of this comes true by the end of season 8 or even 7? :p

Predictions?

 

Totenkindly

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"Give me ten men and I'll impregnate the bitch." Wow.

.. I know some people like the faster pace, but I'm just not very emotionally invested. Everything seems to be too much shorthand to be enjoyable. I mean, tonight they just resolved a few other things quickly.... and I feel like a lot of the strategies are stupid, so of course if and when they end up in disaster, it's a "duh, what did you expect?" moment. And the things of import also just got handed out like presents. It's just so damn quick and there's not much weight to things anymore.

Still, I did like the moment at Winterfell with Sansa and another familiar cast member. It's about time.

I am also happy Davos is still around. I always liked him.

Predictions?


Actually that kind of plot twist has already become the Conventional Wisdom if you read any commentaries about Game of Thrones online. It will be more surprising if something else happens. We saw more seeds of it planted tonight.

Anyway, the Red Woman...



And Yara...


I just had a thought... what if Sansa just becomes the queen after all? Nobody's like expecting it. Cercei defeats daenerys and then for a while Cercei is at the top of her evil and then bam littlefinger gets so enraged, he kills cercei hand to hand combat knowing that's the only thing he can be good at. And Sansa just is like "hey, I guess I'm the queen now" (in your best Sansa voice you can imagine)

Tyrion serves as the new hand of the queen. And Sansa just takes one dragon for herself (the others being dead)

Let's see if any of this comes true by the end of season 8 or even 7? :p

I think Sansa has an important role to play, but I'm not sure that is it. Still...she's becoming quite formidable.

Of course, one way to unite the North and the South is for Dani and Jon to wed at some point... leaving Sansa to rule Winterfell. That is the conventional ending I suppose.

Another would be for Jon and Dani to die saving Westeros, and Tyrion and Sansa rule... no longer a mock marriage.

I don't know. It's not really clear what the ending is. The most the Walkers will get is a statemate if they have legitimate needs; if they are just evil, then they will be pushed back somehow, but it's not clear who will live.

I just think it's the Game of Thrones. if you don't win, you die, like Cersei said so long ago. So it would make sense if the "heroes" of the story had a different philosophy or the winner to not even want the throne. (Those who live by the sword die by it, but a truly worthy leader wouldn't even play the game.) Jon fits in that category, he's the one guy who not only doesn't want the iron throne (well, Tyrion and Jaime and a few others) but he doesn't really even want the title he currently has.
 

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In terms of how the show went, it's very quotable: I did like what Tyrion said:

children are not their fathers

I trust an honest man's eyes over everyone's eyes.

I definitely have that philosophy so I felt very comfortable hearing that.

In terms of the show, Jon and Daenerys' meeting was very predictable but that's not bad. This episode felt like the "let's get this out of the way"

a relatively large character meets her demise but ends up having it well for the show. to not die like Maergery or Tommen.

I think the punishment from Cercei was actually nice for me to hear because Myrcella was so innocent from it all. I really do like Cercei and Daenerys both, despite popular opinion from many GoT fans.


Daenerys looks so incredible with her clothes in the soon to be Queen.

The "white dress" could still indicate Sansa to be in a high position. maybe... "queen"? :smirk:
 

Totenkindly

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...The "white dress" could still indicate Sansa to be in a high position. maybe... "queen"? :smirk:

White dress:

I sure as hell hope that
 

Z Buck McFate

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And the things of import also just got handed out like presents. It's just so damn quick and there's not much weight to things anymore.

It seems to me like Finale Syndrome started setting in at the end of last season...(not exactly sure what to spoiler)




It's still possible that something horrible will happen to Yara (okay, likely), but overall it's felt like Finale Syndrome to me since the moment Sansa watched Ramsey get torn apart. Maybe even since watching Rickon die a relatively simple death, instead of being flayed or tortured or whatnot. (I mean, he was prisoner to Ramsey).
 

Beorn

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I just think it's the Game of Thrones. if you don't win, you die, like Cersei said so long ago. So it would make sense if the "heroes" of the story had a different philosophy or the winner to not even want the throne. (Those who live by the sword die by it, but a truly worthy leader wouldn't even play the game.) Jon fits in that category, he's the one guy who not only doesn't want the iron throne (well, Tyrion and Jaime and a few others) but he doesn't really even want the title he currently has.

I nominate Samwell Tarley for the Iron Throne.
 

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I think Sansa has an important role to play, but I'm not sure that is it. Still...she's becoming quite formidable.

Of course, one way to unite the North and the South is for Dani and Jon to wed at some point... leaving Sansa to rule Winterfell. That is the conventional ending I suppose.

Another would be for Jon and Dani to die saving Westeros, and Tyrion and Sansa rule... no longer a mock marriage.

I don't know. It's not really clear what the ending is. The most the Walkers will get is a statemate if they have legitimate needs; if they are just evil, then they will be pushed back somehow, but it's not clear who will live.

I just think it's the Game of Thrones. if you don't win, you die, like Cersei said so long ago. So it would make sense if the "heroes" of the story had a different philosophy or the winner to not even want the throne. (Those who live by the sword die by it, but a truly worthy leader wouldn't even play the game.) Jon fits in that category, he's the one guy who not only doesn't want the iron throne (well, Tyrion and Jaime and a few others) but he doesn't really even want the title he currently has.

Yes the one thing to note is that the writers *do* make earlier connections to the show even as so far in the 7th season. So watching some past episodes might help to understand some possibilities for the show. While the show has a lot of unexpected deaths, and a bit chaotic at times. It's good to not overdo it and so far I am not complaining. Season 2 on my rewatch (or what I'm rewatching right now) I forgot how brutal it was.. but it also made me realize how innocent season 1 was as a growing show. If you were to infer from the show later on, it'd seem you might predict, "just don't be gullible ok" which in season 2 Jaime Lannister learns to go the dark way to escape unlike Ned did.

It's all so confusing though.. here we have Tyrion believing that the war won't be too difficult although they just lost their Dornish allies and Casterly Rock so quickly. It's a little scary on how over-confident Tyrion is but still too early in the season to really figure out if he's going to make Daenerys win or fail. Daenerys is way too confident in her dragons and has been so since the beginning of the show especially hearing season 2 again, calling her dragons as "her children" or how she sail alone in sea (last recent episode) with just 3 of her dragons.

Episode 4 or 5 might feature Arya again, she's kind of losing a role so I hope they bring something out soon to get us excited about her.

White dress:

I sure as hell hope that

I really think Bran is talking about the future and not the past. It would be pretty terrible. Ahh Joffrey's end was gross but it was satisfying lol. I still remember I get the biggest relief of Joffrey's expiration in S4. or are you alluding to Tyrion?
 

Totenkindly

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I mean basically we have watched
go down in the space of one episode, in only about 10-15 minutes of air time if you compile the snippets. Whereas an episode before, Cersei was supposedly in big trouble.

*yawn*

It's like, "Oh, well, we want to take the plot elsewhere, let's do that." Not that the remaining scenes are terrible, but it just reminds me of that shit book Wizard War I read in the 80's, where there was some heroic quest and it involved three wizards, and out of the blue about 80% of the way into the story, the head wizard broke his arm by falling down and ended up dying in the space of about two pages so that if you were skim reading you might not even notice it happened. And the whole thing just putters to a close.

If this had been the way of the earlier seasons, I probably wouldn't have even have watched the series, since there is no ongoing emotional investment in what happens. I feel like I am watching one of Lady Crane's parodies of Westeros.

More about various expirations:



I really think Bran is talking about the future and not the past. It would be pretty terrible. Ahh Joffrey's end was gross but it was satisfying lol. I still remember I get the biggest relief of Joffrey's expiration in S4. or are you alluding to Tyrion?

I'm confused. The whole thing is about Ramsay, leading to that awful wedding night scene.

-------------

[side note: It's Ramsay. Some people on the 'net keep spelling it Ramsey for some reason, I guess cuz that's the American way to spell things...]
 
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