Dragon Age II

[Atomic Fiend]

I'm gonna guess it's a big spoiler then.

Remember, "there's a twist" is a spoiler. That sentence alone has lowered my enjoyment of so many stories. It's so much easier to guess a twist if you know one is coming.

Any vague allusion to an event in the second half is definitely a spoiler.

It would be a big spoiler, if I was more specific, and this game had only one ending. As for there being a twist, can you name an RPG of this nature that doesn't have a twist? There are so many twists in video games that having a twist in itself is expected. How do you spoil something that everyone knows is coming?

 

[erm]

As for there being a twist, can you name an RPG of this nature that doesn't have a twist?

Well, spoilers so don't read the rest of this sentence, origins and awakening are two, for starters. A twist at some point in the story, on some scale, is the rule rather than the exception, but towards end it is most definitely the exception.

The game having more than one ending doesn't justify anything, it just means you spoilt an ending, rather than the ending. I doubt what you've said is nearly as vague as you think it is, from the perspective of someone who knows nothing about the story or where it goes. It wouldn't be relevant to the thread, if it wasn't specific enough to be a spoiler.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

Dragon Age: Origins and Awakening are two, for starters. A twist at some point in the story is the rule rather than the exception, but towards end it is most definitely the exception.

Really? Were you playing the same games I was? Because I can name quite a few.

The game having more than one ending doesn't justify anything, it just means you spoilt an ending, rather than the ending. I doubt what you've said is nearly as vague as you think it is, from the perspective of someone who knows nothing about the story or where it goes.

What I said won't even be relevant for half the people playing the game, and very few people will know what I alluded to, alluded being the key word.

 

[erm]

Really? Were you playing the same games I was? Because I can name quite a few.

I know what you are referring to. Not what most people would call twists. I've never had "there's a twist" said to me when it meant something like that, anyway. They were always much bigger revelations, that changed the nature and perception of the story already told.

What I said won't even be relevant for half the people playing the game, and very few people will know what I alluded to, alluded being the key word.

Fine. Someone's already said it's a spoiler and that it's "NOT cool", but if you want to ignore that, nothing I can do.

 

[kelric]

I'm not that far into it, but so far I agree with Eck -- it's like someone said "DAO was great -- now let's do it cheaper, people will buy the sequel anyway". And you get what you pay for. And it's obvious. And as Eck mentioned, it is chock-full of my least favorite RPG mechanism ever, the "use cutscene to force player into tactically untenable situation." Where no how careful you are to take cover, etc. you won't see anything until you trigger a cutscene, after which your group teleports into places you didn't want them, and are inevitably surrounded by enemy archers that pop out of nowhere.

I'll finish it, but... unless it gets a lot different I'll be disappointed. DAO was great - it had its flaws, but in general it overcame them. So far DA2 has amplified DAO's flaws and dropped a lot of what made DAO so fun.

It feels like an EA game, not a Bioware one. Which is why I wasn't happy to hear that EA bought Bioware... looks so far like I had cause for concern. Oh well.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

I've finished it and I can honestly say this was a disappointment, not just in comparison to it's predecessor, but on it's own there are some serious issues. Reusing backgrounds, graphical issues, and game play issues. Also the menus are said to be streamlined but they're a bigger mess then they were before, with the help box appearing at the most inopportune moments blocking anything you want to do, and having no way of closing them besides waiting. Also some story hiccups as well, that Dragon Age Origins import? Yeah don't bother, nothing happens regarding that at all.

 

[iwakar]

Just bought it, will return with critical analysis at a later date!

 

[Octarine]

It was mildly entertaining, but it felt more like an expansion, than a game in its own right. The whole game felt much less epic and far more rushed than other RPGs too, including Origins. Some aspects felt more balanced - no more alchemy/crafting powergaming. Far more tactics slots. No spirit healer specialisations for companions (besides Anders).

Oh and (spoiler follows)

The so called different endings are all practically the same anyway...

 

[Atomic Fiend]

Anders was a spirit healer.

Notice how they removed autoleveling despite trying to make this more for the console crowd? Like people who want quick reward for playing want to sit in a stats screen choosing what to add points to.

 

[EcK]

Anders was a spirit healer.

Notice how they removed autoleveling despite trying to make this more for the console crowd? Like people who want quick reward for playing want to sit in a stats screen choosing what to add points to.

What do you mean ? There was auto leveling : \

 

[Totenkindly]

I mean, at least to mention the fact that there's basically 2 models of "inside a place in the city" and 1 and a half type of cavern for the whole game..

So far I've played through the first segment, did the Deep Roads, and now have done some of the quests after Hawke got his/her estate, and I have to say I'm kinda put off by the lack of effort that went into level design. I mean, the layouts themselves aren't bad on their own... but they're all recycled. There is no excuse for a game nowadays (since size is really not an issue) to use the exactly same layout for every house, the same layout for every cavern, same dungeon, etc.... and the half-assed way they chose to differentiate different quests is to simply not activate the doors. The problem is, the entire structure still appears on the map! So you can see all these rooms and passages and halls that you don't know are not really part of your current level until you go to open the door into that area and the door doesn't work; it's confusing, I wonder sometimes if the door SHOULD open, but the software is broken, or if I just missed a quest item or something.

I'll finish it, but... unless it gets a lot different I'll be disappointed. DAO was great - it had its flaws, but in general it overcame them. So far DA2 has amplified DAO's flaws and dropped a lot of what made DAO so fun.

I'm adaptable, so I'm finding ways to enjoy DA2 for what it is... but I think overall I'd still have to say DAO was more enjoyable despite DA2 having the cleaner interface and faster action. Which is too bad. In some ways, I can appreciate the streamlining; on the other hand, I find lots of gear that I'll never use in this stupid game because my NPCs have their own unique armor.

with the help box appearing at the most inopportune moments blocking anything you want to do,

Help box? Whut?

Notice how they removed autoleveling despite trying to make this more for the console crowd? Like people who want quick reward for playing want to sit in a stats screen choosing what to add points to.

There was auto-leveling.

I actually also really enjoy customization of my characters, although for attributes, much of that's a no-brainer depending on class. You have to max main stat first, to have access to better weapons and armors; mages need decent Will in addition to Magic; and rogues who want to find traps and open chests need to max Cunning as well.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

Help box? Whut?



There was auto-leveling.

In the console version theres a a help box that shows up at inopportune moments to impede on, I mean help you progress.

What do you mean ? There was auto leveling : \

If there was I couldn't find it. Once again, console version.

 

[JocktheMotie]

The more I play, the more I enjoy it. I honestly think it suffers from being called DA II and not some sort of spin-off, which is precisely what it is. Just takes time to distance oneself from the expectations that they themselves created in order to drum up support for the game. Unfortunately, I wonder if they did too much damage to the brand by doing that.

While I'm bothered by the repetitive environments, I've gotten used to it, and it doesn't detract too much from my gameplay experience. It's definitely sloppy though. I guess one of the biggest issues for me is the complete lack of a compelling, overarching plot. Am I supposed to be excited about the story of "just some guy" who whores himself out to everyone in Kirkwall and then rises through the ranks? This "plot" style seems ripped straight out of ME2, but the only reason ME2 could get away with having a companion oriented plotline/campaign was because a] it was an actual sequel, so even though the Collectors were a terrible enemy without a real centralized antagonist, you could still relate your activities to the furthering your goal of outing the Reapers; and b] the majority of ME2's characters were extremely interesting and you were generally invested in furthering their stories, not only because they were rewarding from a gameplay standpoint [abilities] but because they were all just well written stories. I haven't found one companion in DAII that remotely compares to anybody in the ME or original DA universe, they're all crap. You can't even prod them on their personal philosophies either, that's been dumbed down too. So, we're left with a piecemeal "plot" populated by dull characters. Very disappointing.

However...I will say I love the combat system. No, it's not as tactical, which I miss, however the talent trees are put together far better and have better focus. One of my largest complaints about the Mage tree in DA was the complete lack of focus and the amount of filler I had to deal with while leveling up. I really like the improved animation and pace of combat as well. It's a bit quicker and far more visceral, but a bit over the top. Mechanically, it works very well and I find that the cross class combos are great, but could be fleshed out a bit more. Only a few trees in each class can benefit, so it makes those trees far more attractive and effective than the others.

Overall I still like the game a lot. Even not being done, I'm looking forward to more playthroughs. Just needed my expectations to stabilize.

 

[Totenkindly]

The more I play, the more I enjoy it. I honestly think it suffers from being called DA II and not some sort of spin-off, which is precisely what it is. Just takes time to distance oneself from the expectations that they themselves created in order to drum up support for the game.

In general, that's how I'm approaching it too. I think if it wasn't attached to DAO, my opinion would be far better even if some of my criticisms were the same.

Am I supposed to be excited about the story of "just some guywoman" who whores himherself out to everyone in Kirkwall and then rises through the ranks?

And I'm kicking ass and still managing to mess around with lyrium-infected elves with psychological trauma in their background! Mua ha ha

haven't found one companion in DAII that remotely compares to anybody in the ME or original DA universe, they're all crap.

I probably like Fenris the best so far (and in a weird way, he's modeled after Wolverine from the X-men... or maybe not so weird, look at the names); but yes, they're all kind of dull. I thought Merrill started out interestingly, and then nothing has panned out with her at all yet.

 

[Atomic Fiend]

If you keep following that thread and you do it correctly (or incorrectly) her story pays the fuck off.

Also Anders pay real close attention to his story.

 

[Octarine]

However...I will say I love the combat system.

The crap AI drives me nuts. As well as the fact that you can't tell your companions to hold position individually.
Seriously, your companions often don't have any danger sense. They'll just stand there being blasted by whatever magic, when they should move (changing 'ranged' 'aggressive' etc doesn't change this). Enemies likewise.

Given how repetitive the game already is, I'm not going to play it again.

 

[erm]

I've been playing it for several hours now. It reminds me a lot of KoTOR. The first one.

I'm not expecting a character as well written as Kreia, or some of the others from Obsidian, but hopefully it'll be better than KoTOR (only one part stood out to me in that story, and I'm sure you can guess if you've played it). It certainly has a better setting already, thanks to Origins, and some of the dialogue has been very entertaining (mostly funny, but some other forms too).

As for combat, seems about as tactical as Origins, to be honest, just a lot more over the top and fast in terms of animations. About the same level of difficulty, except nightmare is a bit harder. Nightmare was a bit too hard starting out for me, unlike Origins, which is a shame because hard is a bit too easy for me, but I'm sure when I get familiar with skills and stats nightmare will still be too easy to need anything beyond basic tactics. I certainly like what they've done with stats and some of the other number calculations. Constitution actually seem like a good option for some builds, maybe even willpower too, I can't tell yet. I particularly like what I've seen of the force mechanic.

Hopefully the moral choices will be less black and white than Origins. So far I've only been able to be a jerk, a saint, or a joker, so it's not looking good. I love it when a game manages to create a moral dilemma, and I have to reassess my own value system as a result, rather than moral choices or problems, where I simply apply my own values or work out how to best serve them (which are both still nice to have). Recently only The Witcher and Alpha Protocol have presented me with dilemmas.

 

[Totenkindly]

If you keep following that thread and you do it correctly (or incorrectly) her story pays the fuck off.

Yeah, I just got to the Mirror Image quest... so I'm hoping for something good here.

I did like the way a few of the recurring characters actually appeared in DAO and might have even been part of one of my origin quests. There's at least a little bit of narrative tie-in there.

Also Anders pay real close attention to his story.

Gotcha.

I must be a real romantic. So far I've been with two of my companions, another just was too prudish to go all the way, and I'm not sure what is happening with Merrill. Bisexuality seems to be the law of the land right now, though. Eeeep.

Hopefully the moral choices will be less black and white than Origins. So far I've only been able to be a jerk, a saint, or a joker, so it's not looking good. I love it when a game manages to create a moral dilemma, and I have to reassess my own value system as a result, rather than moral choices or problems, where I simply apply my own values or work out how to best serve them (which are both still nice to have). Recently only The Witcher and Alpha Protocol have presented me with dilemmas.

I found KOTOR 1 & 2 to have more moral dilemma than this so far, unfortunately....

 

[Atomic Fiend]

Yeah, I just got to the Mirror Image quest... so I'm hoping for something good here.

I did like the way a few of the recurring characters actually appeared in DAO and might have even been part of one of my origin quests. There's at least a little bit of narrative tie-in there.

If you played the Dalish elf origin, or have any knowledge at all about the Eluvian you can probably predict how this will end.

Gotcha.

Good.

I must be a real romantic. So far I've been with two of my companions, another just was too prudish to go all the way, and I'm not sure what is happening with Merrill. Bisexuality seems to be the law of the land right now, though. Eeeep.

Except with Aveline, who consistently remains the most well-adjusted and reliable characters in game. You can flirt but you can't romance.

 

[Totenkindly]

If you played the Dalish elf origin, or have any knowledge at all about the Eluvian you can probably predict how this will end.

Yes, I played it in the original, and I selected it for my origin/pregame in this story, so...

Except with Aveline, who consistently remains the most well-adjusted and reliable characters in game. You can flirt but you can't romance.

She seems pretty STJ.

Right now she's being a pain in my butt because she's getting cold feet in a different situation.