User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 12

  1. #1
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default Hearing the different sounds in a song/piece.

    It is one of those things I often do unconsciously, especially when it comes to a song that doesn't have lyrics. I hear beats...the highs and the lows. While I may not know the instruments being used I can tell it is there. I can feel what instrument (or sounds) seem to be the main character of the piece and the instruments/sounds that are more of the supporting role.

    I can understand what sounds seems to be a wind instrument, or a string instrument. An instrument that gets closer to a trombone or one that is closer to a flute, an instrument that lends itself like a drum (using the hands to create the sound) or one that uses a harmonica. An electronic music that is trying to mimic "x" sound.

    The pace of the piece, what sounds are pretty constant throughout the piece? What sounds are pretty irregular?

    By the time I go through the list of sounds I hear, the piece is done.

    During the whole process, I can also feel what the piece evokes to me. It evokes, happiness, sadness, forgiveness, pain, delight, and everything in between. It is like what people called a "March." It is upbeat, and many different marches tend to put you into action. It speaks... GO!

    It is sort of like language, there are nuances (probably big ones) between Spanish, French, and Italian. Just as easily, I can tell the difference between Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese (could definitely include more into the list.)

    I notice the tones, the sounds that are made.

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Aside from sidetracking, I was told I can really develop this part of me. Not really sure, I tend to just listen to music and follow the beat(that is, if I actually like the beat in the first place) and notice the sounds within the beat.

    Would music theory work? I could just as easily decide to take a language course if it further develops this (I wanted to take a language course anyhow.)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    INT-
    Posts
    294

    Default

    Music theory may enhance your appreciation and perception of music somewhat.
    Don't really see how linguistics would have any relation, though...

    Better yet, I suggest that you choose an instrument and start playing.
    I recommend guitar.
    INTP 4w5 SX/SP
    Tritype 4/5/8

  3. #3
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    I agree. That or piano. They're both good instruments to explore music with. I wouldn't recommend music theory unless you were already a musician (I can't tell from your post if you are). It's not something you need to learn. It's something you do. Then learn more about afterwards.

    *It is ironic that two INPs suggest that you simply do something about it.

  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Theory as a course is okay if you need it to get by for something else. It teacehs basics and structure of music (scales, chord progressions and how they naturally lead to other certain chords, nomenclature, etc.) I aced both theory courses I took because I had already instinctively known it all and had been in music for years, but it can be helpful I guess if you want to learn the names for things you might already recognize.

    Some people might want to just "do" music first, rather than learning all the theory, and you can play instruments for years without ever taking "formal" theory. It can enhance what one does as a musician, but musicians first and foremost actually play their instruments.

    Both guitar and piano are "big picture" / chord instruments. Most other instruments are solo or supporting instruments in that they only play one note at a time, so to create texture/chords they need to be in an ensemble with other instruments. Guitar is more popular in some ways nowadays simply because it's cheaper and portable, but all your notes happen on 5 strings (?), whereas with piano, one note = one key on the piano. Both instruments are good to start when young, so that your brain can easily allocate member space to your hands (especially the left hand for strings)... although you can still start them later. There are just certain windows where the brain is getting primed.

    I think music is a language as well, although more an emotive one for me. For many years when I couldn't articulate my feelings, I could express them with music -- it was raw and instinctive and direct for me.

    When I listen to music, even as I feel the emotional and/or aesthetic impact of it, I also am deconstructing it -- picking out the various instruments, seeing their parts in my head, and perceiving how they all weave together to achieve a particular sound.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    5 strings (?).
    6. As in, the Six String Samurai
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lipBWGBJuAE&feature=related]/[/youtube]

  6. #6
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fan of Devin View Post
    Music theory may enhance your appreciation and perception of music somewhat.
    Don't really see how linguistics would have any relation, though...

    Better yet, I suggest that you choose an instrument and start playing.
    I recommend guitar.
    Actually, many people have said that I could probably play the guitar really well for the fact that I have big enough hands.

    When it comes to linguistics, when you start focusing on tone, you can start hearing sounds that have higher pitches and lower pitches. Some words tend to be deeper in sound than others. From there, you can start picking out sounds that points to a particular language that is derived from another one.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I agree. That or piano. They're both good instruments to explore music with. I wouldn't recommend music theory unless you were already a musician (I can't tell from your post if you are). It's not something you need to learn. It's something you do. Then learn more about afterwards.

    *It is ironic that two INPs suggest that you simply do something about it.
    Not really a musician, just listen to music a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Some people might want to just "do" music first, rather than learning all the theory, and you can play instruments for years without ever taking "formal" theory. It can enhance what one does as a musician, but musicians first and foremost actually play their instruments.

    Both guitar and piano are "big picture" / chord instruments. Most other instruments are solo or supporting instruments in that they only play one note at a time, so to create texture/chords they need to be in an ensemble with other instruments. Guitar is more popular in some ways nowadays simply because it's cheaper and portable, but all your notes happen on 5 strings (?), whereas with piano, one note = one key on the piano. Both instruments are good to start when young, so that your brain can easily allocate member space to your hands (especially the left hand for strings)... although you can still start them later. There are just certain windows where the brain is getting primed.

    I think music is a language as well, although more an emotive one for me. For many years when I couldn't articulate my feelings, I could express them with music -- it was raw and instinctive and direct for me.

    When I listen to music, even as I feel the emotional and/or aesthetic impact of it, I also am deconstructing it -- picking out the various instruments, seeing their parts in my head, and perceiving how they all weave together to achieve a particular sound.
    If I had a choice, I would actually play the music. My college actually has a beginning course for certain instruments. But I have heard (just as you said) that learning to play an instrument as a person gets older becomes harder to do. The only instruments I have even remotely touched long enough to play a tune would be the piano and recorder(but really... a recorder?)

  7. #7
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    6,028

    Default

    I had music training growing up (piano), but didn't take up guitar until I was well into adulthood. It's hard, but not impossible. It really sounds like you have a gift for music, something that a lot of trained musicians have to work to have, and I think it would be a shame if you didn't give learning an instrument a try.

    Just know that it might be hard, and everyone sucks at first. The ones who get good are the ones who are determined to power through the suck and put in time to get better.
    Something Witty

  8. #8
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Takeru View Post
    ABut I have heard (just as you said) that learning to play an instrument as a person gets older becomes harder to do.
    Just try it first. :workout:

    I know a kid who started around 20 (I was 13 when I started), and he's really good now.. He's only been playing for 2 and half years or so. He was a drummer before so I suppose he started with a good foundation on rhythm, but he naturally just makes good "choices" in his chord/note progression, and has a dexterity for it in general. The choices come from his good ear and his good tastes, most of all.

    The one thing that does stand out about me though is that I'm left handed, but I learned right handed. I didn't know any better, but it was a pretty rough start. I can't express how crappy that really was, now that I know. And I simply stuck with it because I loved it. Sometimes the less you know about what you can't do, the better.

  9. #9
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    Aeon
    Enneagram
    10w so
    Socionics
    LOL
    Posts
    1,366

    Default

    This is a potentially interesting thread. There are many approaches to analysing sound.

    I have not studied this formally, below are my thoughts.

    The big picture is covered by Murray in The soundscape:
    http://www.amazon.com/Soundscape-R-M.../dp/0892814551

    In terms of perception of sound, there are many approaches.

    1. It may be a good idea to have an understanding of how the ear works and how the brain processes sound. This will help you understand spatial location, masking effects (eg how lossy compression works) etc.
    A good book is An Introduction to the Psychology of Hearing, 5th Edition:
    http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-P...2704144&sr=1-1
    (covers the basic findings in physiology as well)

    2.
    In terms of practical hearing and refining ones ability, there is ear training. There are two varieties.
    The first is ear training to recognise horizontal and vertical functions of harmony (this can be done either as absolute pitch or relative pitch), as well as rhythmic motifs. This is usually done within a western classical or Jazz perspective.
    The second is in the perspective of an audio engineer or sound designer. At a basic level, recognising tones at a particular frequency. At a deeper level, a greater understanding of timbre and acoustics.

    3.
    Studying acoustics. Understanding the basis of sound - an impulse which is basically a burst of noise (white noise can be thought of as decorrelated clicks or impulses over time). This sound is then shaped by a complex arrangement of acoustic resonances. On a basic level, each is just a spring-mass resonant system. Note that even (analogue) electrical signal processing is modelled as spring-mass resonant systems.

    Studying physical modelling of acoustical systems as well as traditional sound synthesis techniques can give you some perspective on how a particular timbre is determined.

    An interesting aside - traditional classical music theory is mostly just concerned with the intermediate structure - dominant harmonic functions over a typical BPM. But what happens when you slow the BPM right down (approaching zero), or way up (to many thousands). In that case, the sound is no longer dominated by classical theory, but rather timbre. Timbre itself should be rich with its own music theory, but this is only been touched on in 20th century orchestration.

    4.

    Musical theory

    It is important to note that music theory is not limited to that taught in introductory courses - notation (including rhythm, dynamics, articulation), scales, chordal harmony and progressions (including counterpoint). Important additions are poly-rhythms, orchestration, but equally important is overall musical form and structure as well as having an idea of how melody is constructed and can be used to express something (from lyrical melodies, to other expressions).

    Now musical analysis itself has many paradigms, from modal counterpoint, chordal harmony, western rhythms, cadential progressions (eg the idea that all music is or should be variations on I-IV-V-I), western (and other ethnic) musical structures.

    But there are also mathematical and perceptual approaches. These aren't merely abstract methods, but can give useful insights, with regards to the types of harmonic, rhythmic and timbral structures that are likely to be well received by humans. Eg why do certain levels of decorellation between harmonic content cause particular biological responses. Where are the thresholds and why are they set in that way. How is the structure of music suited towards our perceptual capabilities? Why do we recognise individual timbres merely as sound, rather than definite musical structure? Likewise even with a few 'dissonant' combinations of pure (sine) tones - it is perceived as timbral rather than musical.

    As well as research on novel forms of algorithmic music creation (note that a human 'composer' is still involved and the results can be very musical).

    5.
    Actually play an instrument. This won't necessarily provide you with conscious understanding, but rather practical experience with the simple harmonic and structures and rhythmic progressions that are considered pleasant to humans. The reasons why adults have difficulty learning instruments is two fold. Time and coordination. Those with great coordination naturally pick up instruments at young age, if they were exposed to music. Secondly, it takes a long time to train ones coordination as an adult. But if you practise for an average of 2 hours a day for 10 years and manage to keep it up (and progressively improve your skills by careful study), chances are you will become a good musician.

  10. #10
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,859

    Default

    You should learn music theory in the context of learning an instrument. Learning it by itself probably won't be of much use without directly relating it to sounds you make.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-20-2010, 01:53 AM
  2. [NF] Fi and Fe: Trying to Understand and Illustrate the Difference (in my head)
    By VagrantFarce in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-24-2010, 12:38 AM
  3. [MBTItm] What are the differences in NFP and NFJ flirting?
    By Cypocalypse in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-19-2009, 05:28 PM
  4. Replies: 110
    Last Post: 05-03-2009, 12:49 PM
  5. The difference of the N and the S mind in Art and Music
    By wildcat in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-11-2007, 02:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO