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Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition

ArbiterDewey

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I cannot wait for D&D version 4.0 to come out this June. I already have some awesome campaign ideas and story hooks. :party:

I'm normally a Dungeon Master (DM).

Anyone else hyped/play?
 
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Hexis

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Of course im hyped, time to get some dice and paper out!
 

Totenkindly

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Sniff. I miss 2nd edition hardbacks. :(
 

Ivy

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Out of curiosity, why do they need another edition? It seems very commercialized and exploitive nowadays.
 

ArbiterDewey

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Out of curiosity, why do they need another edition? It seems very commercialized and exploitive nowadays.

Yes, it is. It took approx. ten years from 2nd edition (AD&D) to get revised to 3rd Edition (3.0). I personally think that was not exactly commercial exploitation. There was an obvious need for a clarification and simplification of those ridiculous rules. THAC0...nuff said.

Version 3.5 came out one year after 3.0 in order to re-clarify the rules and change some faulty core mechanics...however they marketed it with three brand new rulebooks and supplements. All of the previous content now erroneous, and nearly unusable. I had already purchased $400 in 3.0 stuff...I tried my hardest not to buy into the BS, but, inevitably it happened when I realized the changes were good and made gameplay solid.

Fourth Edition will change some things that more dedicated gamers will appreciate (up to lvl.30 characters in the PHB, Gnomes out of the PHB, Tieflings now in the PHB, and "sweet-spots" now occurring around lvl.1 instead of 17.) Finally utilizing the computer for character creation and Wizards created DM Tools will help maximize gameplay. I feel that it will truly be a good change. They are also releasing new core rulebooks, at $35 a piece. I don't mind buying these, but if a 4.5 or 5.0 comes out any time soon I'm out. I'll take a minimum 10 year gap, thank you. :happy:
 

Totenkindly

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Well, the 2nd ed and 3rd ed gap came primarily over the years when TSR actually owned the game and was trying to run things on their own. Lots of the old school original players were involved.

Many more RPGs (non-TSR) started coming out in late 80's and early/mid 90's (everyone seemed to want to make an RPG), and AD&D -- as the granddaddy game -- also had lots of legacy problems in their systems that newer systems had learned from and circumvented somehow. They had to change and produce, or die. TSR still got bought out by Wizards, and Wizards obviously has a commercial bent on things. They are probably using the same mentality as they use to market their card games -- tweaks/changes, getting new expansion products on the market, etc.

But a new generation of people/players is in charge too. Second and third-generation gamers.
 

Nadir

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Looking forward to it. But you know what will blow? The inevitable PC adaptation of it.

Neverwinter Nights, which used the 3E ruleset, was a great game. It was what introduced me to D&D alongside BG2. These days I wouldn't really count on anyone to create the NWN or BG of 4E. Which rather sucks, given that I don't really have anyone to play the tabletop version with.
 

Geoff

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Looking forward to it. But you know what will blow? The inevitable PC adaptation of it.

Neverwinter Nights, which used the 3E ruleset, was a great game. It was what introduced me to D&D alongside BG2. These days I wouldn't really count on anyone to create the NWN or BG of 4E. Which rather sucks, given that I don't really have anyone to play the tabletop version with.

NWN2 is pretty good a year later. I wisely (as it turns out) waited a year while they ironed all the bugs out... it runs pretty smoothly with a pretty decent plot and good game mechanics with a modern machine and patched up to date now. Plus it's a bargain purchase by now, and.... more and more classic modules have been adapted for NWN2 by the community. Keep of the Borderlands anyone?
 

Totenkindly

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... Keep of the Borderlands anyone?

Woo-hoo! Now you are talking!

What about "Against the Giants?" And did they ever do "White Plume Mountain" or "Tomb of Horrors"?
 

Nadir

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NWN2 is pretty good a year later. I wisely (as it turns out) waited a year while they ironed all the bugs out... it runs pretty smoothly with a pretty decent plot and good game mechanics with a modern machine and patched up to date now. Plus it's a bargain purchase by now, and.... more and more classic modules have been adapted for NWN2 by the community. Keep of the Borderlands anyone?

My initial impressions of and limited playing experience regarding NWN2, due to the lack of "ironing" you mentioned, was good but not great. It is not a bad game by any means but I had sort of expected better from Chris Avellone. (Maybe I was expecting another Planescape: Torment...) I'll keep your recommendation in mind -- once I upgrade my system.
 

Valiant

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Love the fact that bards (and was it necromancers?) now can wear chain shirts without arcane spell failure % hitting the roof... But that was 3.0 changes, wonder what will be new in the 4.0 :rolli:

Hopefully something fun for the melee classes.
 

Geoff

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Woo-hoo! Now you are talking!

What about "Against the Giants?" And did they ever do "White Plume Mountain" or "Tomb of Horrors"?

All of them are available for NWN1. Which can be bought for next to nothing... if you want to go for NWN2 (need an up to date machine, but I like the way you can control the whole party properly).

At the moment...

Tomb of Horrors : Aside from the lots of versions for NWN1...One has appeared for NWN2 that I am tempted to try :

Tomb of Horrors Revisited v1.4 -- Neverwinter Nights 2 Vault

NWN2 top modules here :

Neverwinter News, Trailers, Screenshots, Previews, Reviews, Guides -- Neverwinter Nights 2 Vault

You know... getting some sort of proper DM'd NWN1 or NWN2 party based module together played by real people would be a lot of fun...!
 

Totenkindly

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Love the fact that bards (and was it necromancers?) now can wear chain shirts without arcane spell failure % hitting the roof... But that was 3.0 changes, wonder what will be new in the 4.0 :rolli:

NERF THE BARDS! BUA HA HA!

That's what'll happen.

More seriously, how did they balance that out for the class?
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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How popular is D&D now? I was afraid that it's popularity was dying out. It might just be me. All of my gaming groups died out. :( Man I love to role play.
:nerd:
:ninja:
:duel:
:spam_laser:
:vader1:
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition

Dungeons and Dragons just came out with its 4th edition last month. Has anyone taken a look at this yet? I was flipping through the Player's Handbook at Barnes and Noble the other day, and it looked radically different from 3rd edition. My impression that the differences between 3.5 and 4th edition are greater than the differences between AD&D first edition and 3.5.

Part of this may simply be because they formatted the book quite differently compared to the first three editions. For example in the past they used to put all of the spells in the back, but now they put all the wizard spells under the wizard class description, all of the cleric spells under the cleric class description, etc.... However there are still look like a lot of changes.

There are only eight classes now. They took out Barbarian, Druid, Monk, Sorcerer, and Bard and added Warlock and Warlord (which is closer to cleric than fighter, in spite of the name). Hit points are fixed per level now instead of rolled. Every classed gets so many "healing charges" per day, so they have some ability to heal themselves. Gnome and Half-Orc races were deleted, while Dragonkin and Tiefling races were added.

All classes have powers now. For example even the fighter gets several powers at first level and then requires more regularly. Abilities are defined as either "at will", "once per encounter", or "once per day". "At will" powers tend to be minor, "once per encounter" are moderately powered, and "once per day" powers tend to be your most powerful abilities. Like for a fighter, an "at will" power might give a +2 to hit, a "once per encounter" ability might do an extra die of damage, and a "once per day" ability might do an extra die of damage and give the foe a penalty for the rest of the combat.

Wizard spells and spellbooks look pretty different. Spells are basically just like the powers that everyone else gets, and I think you only get them when you go up a level. I'll have to check again, but I don't think you acquire new spells by capturing spellbooks. Instead I think the Wizard gets twice the powers of the other classes and then picks which half he'll use that day. That is how he picks his spells. Other than that spells work just like powers I described above. Like Magic Missle can be used at will, while Fireball is once per day.

Overall it looks like a very different system that what I am used to with D&D. I wouldn't mind trying it since I like trying new things, and while it might be very fun I'm not sure how much it will "feel" like D&D. Anyone else have some opinions or additional info they'd like to share about this?
 

Geoff

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Been busy playing it with a group by Skype. It's good... tighter focus, and the other classes will follow in due courses.

All the classes, melee included, get some "magic" feel by having encounter and daily powers.

Other than that, as always, it's up to the group how much they roleplay.

So far, I'm impressed.
 

htb

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Judging by substantive Amazon reviews, the new edition draws sharp opinions from rules-oriented groups. Those who approve either reject that Wizards of the Coast seeks to appeal to the MMO demographic; or were already practicing grid-based combat.

My groups, loosely based on Second Edition rules, were animated by roleplaying; and, in the stages of preparing for the first group in nearly ten years, I'm fine-tuning a highly simplified and amalgamated system, so remain pretty ambivalent. Though I agree that such a radical alteration, however strong, probably shouldn't be called Dungeons & Dragons, Wizards of the Coast have certainly established system credibility with Magic: The Gathering.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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Those who approve either reject that Wizards of the Coast seeks to appeal to the MMO demographic; or were already practicing grid-based combat.

Yeah one think I was thinking as I was flipping through the books is that 4th ed. resembles an MMO more than earlier editions. On the one hand this seems like it makes D&D even less realistic than before. On the other hand D&D was never terribly realistic even for a game that takes place in a fantasy world. Even in 1st edition a high level fighter could jump off of a mountain top, take about 70 points of damage, and then rush into battle.

I'm not sure if it's wise to follow the MMO trend though. I don't think D&D can beat MMO's at their own game. But there are plenty of things that D&D can do that MMO's can't. D&D ultimately only has one limitation and that is the DM's imagination, which is something MMO's will never be able to beat.
 
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