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  1. #11
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Smile Laughing All the Way to the Bank

    The juvenile impulse to rebel has been siphoned off into popular music.

    I can remember listening to a New York band called the Rebels in the Refectory of the Australian National University and I was struck by how confident they were and how phoney.

    It's like, when you can fake sincerity you've got it made, or the revolution will he held on television. It's the kind of revolution you have when you are not having a revolution. It's the kind of revolution you have when you don't want to be shot.

    And it is the kind of revolution held with all the pride of an obedient child. Hey, the whole country began with a revolution and look how revolutionary I am now.

    Finally we have been able to exploit the Revolution safely while we laugh all the way to the bank.

  2. #12
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    The thing I hate most about pop-culture and counter-culture is the superficial loyalty of their followers. The former only likes things that are mainstream and the latter refuses to like anything if it is popular, even if it piques their interest. Both choose their interests based on other people's interests.

    I'm acquainted with a few indie kids who sneer at anything that is played on the radio. How hypocritical is that? I've heard some of their underground music and there's a reason why it's not played on the radio; it sounds like shit (generalizing). When it comes to music, I like what I like. I don't care who else does or doesn't like it. Why do people always say that a band has "sold out" if they start making money on their music? I think if someone has the potential to make a decent profit off of their abilities then they should take advantage of that opportunity. Another thing that pisses me off is when people think that a band should produce the same music every album. People change as they grow and an artist's material is going to reflect that. It doesn't mean that they betrayed their fans.

    The same is true for movies, books, etc... So many people feel a need to belong or rebel. Like whatever you like and stop putting labels on everything.

    This used to bother me also.....but then I realized that not everyone personally identifies with their music taste. Mask, we're Fi-doms - it's important to be true to ourselves, be genuine, and blah blah blah. In a sense, we can rebel against rebelling sometimes, because rebelling for the sake of rebelling seems so contrived - blech!

    However, in adopting the tastes of a group, other people are not necessarily betraying their own feelings - they are fulfilling a desire to belong, and more importantly, to bond. People who choose the indie route probably have some kind of elitist image they aspire to ("special snowflake"), but they also want to identify with other people (not be a loner), or maybe it suits their personal taste more and kills two birds with one stone. In any case, what they get out of music may simply be different, and so they take a different approach.

    I admit I can be a bit a music snob & I used to sort of "judge" other people's music taste - not that I listen to anything oh so obscure, or oh so superior, but I honestly don't listen to the radio, because whenever I turn it on I am disappointed/annoyed. I'm sure some music I like is on the radio (especially older stuff), and gets played in stores & commercials & hyped on blogs, etc, but I'm not very aware of it. If a band I like gets hugely popular (or IS hugely popular), it does not deter me from naming them as a favorite. I do see people drop a band the minute it's hot though - they gotta always be two steps ahead of everyone so they can be "special". Other people won't admit they like something until other people do - it gives a sense of relief to know that they are not alone.

    I just tell people I don't listen to the radio so when they ask what music I like, it doesn't sound like I am being pretentious & listing off bands they've never heard of to sound cool. I find people either know a LOT of the music I like because they share my taste, or very little, so it's kind of a fair warning that I tend to fall into a side niche instead of the epicenter of mainstream taste. I will joke that I live under a rock and music just manages to find me.

    I think sharing "guilty pleasures" is really hilarious though - you then learn that NO ONE's taste is 100% anything and everyone listens to something outside of the sphere they've chosen to identify with or are naturally drawn to.
    Last edited by OrangeAppled; 09-12-2010 at 12:16 AM.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #13
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    I understand a person wanting to belong to a group of like-minded people. I don't understand people who choose their values/interests based on other people's interests, whether in agreement or disagreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I think sharing "guilty pleasures" is really hilarious though - you then learn that NO ONE's taste is 100% anything and everyone listens to something outside of the sphere they've chosen to identify with or are naturally drawn to.
    True. Some of the music I like seems to clash with the majority of it. None of my friends like the music I typically listen to and some of them vehemently dislike it, which makes it nearly impossible to find people to go to concerts with.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    As you grow old and wise, such as me, you begin to feel more and more comfortable in your high throne of exquisite taste in music (and art in general). You need to smile at the indies and ignore them like a parent does when his child starts spewing BS.

  5. #15
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    The thing I hate most about pop-culture and counter-culture is the superficial loyalty of their followers. The former only likes things that are mainstream and the latter refuses to like anything if it is popular, even if it piques their interest. Both choose their interests based on other people's interests.

    The same is true for movies, books, etc... So many people feel a need to belong or rebel. Like whatever you like and stop putting labels on everything.
    Amen to that. If you were to look at my collection, you'd find both popular and more obscure stuff and some in between.

    I take issue with those snobs who think that because something is really popular it must be beneath them. People shouldn't have to be made to feel inferior because of what they like or don't like.
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  6. #16
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    True. Some of the music I like seems to clash with the majority of it. None of my friends like the music I typically listen to and some of them vehemently dislike it, which makes it nearly impossible to find people to go to concerts with.
    I have this problem also, so I go to concerts alone a lot. It's actually an interesting way to meet people, although I've never had a real friendship come out of these meetings...
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  7. #17
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    The thing I hate most about pop-culture and counter-culture is the superficial loyalty of their followers. The former only likes things that are mainstream and the latter refuses to like anything if it is popular, even if it piques their interest. Both choose their interests based on other people's interests.

    I'm acquainted with a few indie kids who sneer at anything that is played on the radio. How hypocritical is that? I've heard some of their underground music and there's a reason why it's not played on the radio; it sounds like shit (generalizing). When it comes to music, I like what I like. I don't care who else does or doesn't like it. Why do people always say that a band has "sold out" if they start making money on their music? I think if someone has the potential to make a decent profit off of their abilities then they should take advantage of that opportunity. Another thing that pisses me off is when people think that a band should produce the same music every album. People change as they grow and an artist's material is going to reflect that. It doesn't mean that they betrayed their fans.

    The same is true for movies, books, etc... So many people feel a need to belong or rebel. Like whatever you like and stop putting labels on everything.
    In my experience, it's been easiest just to not care about any of it. Don't allow their opinions to fire your emotions up. Let that whatever fade off into nothingness. Another thing: the term "sell out" is the equivalent of "walk off home run"; it's... useless, really. You're correct, however, in your assertion that listeners ought not to completely disregard the radio as a source for media. I think of it as a neighborhood drinking fountain; it may be found with a used condom on it someday or another, but hallelujah-- water continues to stream from the abyss.

    I, personally, always have future potential in mind. Keep your ears open; get the most bang for your buck at free shows because that's when they put forth their truest efforts. Are they/s/he doing it differently, or at least attempting then maybe subtly/openly admitting their human failings when the presentation doesn't come off as planned? I attend shows to engross myself in the flow/buzz of the moment (for no other reason); as long as I select the right show, the euphoria garnered satisfies the needs. It's actually for the best if I'm not bothered by anyone else, free to savor the experience in relative peace.

    You'd be a more efficient author if you were to explain your plan to be the next whoever's gonna redefine music on in a global, non-record industry-related way. But until that happens, you're just a monster truck burning your tires out in the giant mud puddle.

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