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Jane Austen - Masterpiece Theatre

Jae Rae

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I don't see Mr. Bennet as an INTJ. He mostly keeps to his library, reading and appreciating his two older daughters. He's not openly critical of people, even Darcy, though he makes fun of them. He's a very Rational man; INTJs seem more emotional to me than that.

I see him as more of a P than a J. Eg, he avoids taking a stand with Lydia; rather than forbidding her to go to Brighton, he avoids a confrontation and hopes for the best. If we assume he's INTP, his wife would be his opposite, as she certainly seems to be - social, opinionated, engineering meetings between her daughters and eligible men, "a woman with a mission." Her husband is much more likely to let things develop and only deal with them when absolutely necessary.

When proved wrong, he swings all the way over to the other side - "no officers will be ever be allowed in town." That feels like a very familiar INTP pattern to me. And an INTJ who said he wasn't allowing Lydia and Wickham into his home after their cobbled-together marriage would really mean it.

Jae Rae
 

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Ah. I see where you're coming from now.
I don't see him as respecting social convention, not as much as Bingley anyhow.
Wouldn't he have been gracious and danced at the dance if he cared about convention?

The social ideal was inculcated into him from an early age. He was from the rich landowners set. In those days the chasms betweens "classes" were much more significant than they are now. I guess that's why I thought he might have a high "S" factor. He wanted to do the right thing, what he was "expected" to do.

Yet in the end, he could not deny himself the pleasure of being married to a woman he admired for her beauty and for her love of the outdoors, even though her relations were "so far below" his own.

Could an F really say - when they are NOT angry - it's against my better judgment, since I'm so much better than you, but would you marry me? You can't get any more T than that! :blush: Poor thing.
He was just stating facts. Nothing personal. :D

I don't know. Maybe Fs do that, too. If so, I fear I will never be able to tell them apart!


I think an F who truly felt that they were in danger of being preyed upon or that they had no control over the situation. Male NF feel at a loss in the world because of their soft natures, they learn early to use stubbornness and pride as a defense against being taken advantage of or thought as a weak. They will try to use their inferior T to deal with the world and because it is inferior it often comes accross as a very negative shadow. For the INFJ this would be Ti, very critical and nitpicky, prone to supporting Fe type biases in a negative way. Fe decides who is to be made to feel included in a group but remember the opposite of this is also who is not to be made to feel included in a group.

Darcy is a man who is not in control, he loves and wants a woman who does not meet with his social class expectations. He is aware of the benefit to her to accept his proposal even if she cares nothing for him and he may get used and abused as a result because of his weakness/softness towards her. He cannot feel anything but at a disadvantage in that situation, so yes I think he might still hide behind the mantle of pride. "Okay, so I do love you but....."

I conceede to JayRae about the father likely being P rather than J.
 

Hirsch63

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I don't feel qualified to offer an opinion on these personality traits in the form of a type...I know that there are plenty of forum members much more skilled at that than I would be. I simply offer my observations.
 

Hirsch63

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...and additionally, I did not realize in a thread titled Jane Austen-Masterpiece Theater that my observations would have to be limited to Austen's written word... I thought that this was a discussion of portrayals of Austen's characters; in both her own original writings and the subsequent recent dramatic interpretations that seemed to be the subject most discussed on this thread.

If a scholarly interpretation of character types is to be compiled, using the best available information both on Austen and MBTI, I must apologize for falling far short of the qualifications necessary for such an endeavour.
 

Jae Rae

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My guess for Jane Bennet--- ISFP
Mr. Bennet --- INTJ
Mrs. Bennet --- ESFJ
Mr. Bingley ---- ESFP
Lydia Bennet ---- ESTP
Mr. Darcy --- INFJ (He is just a little too prissy for me to say INTJ!)
Elizabeth Bennet ---ENFJ


Rebuttals are both welcomed and encouraged! :)

Kitty Bennet - ISFJ
Mary Bennet - ISTJ
Charlotte Lucas - INTP
Catherine de Bourgh - ENTJ
Lizzie's aunt (Gardiner) - INFP

Jae Rae
 

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...and additionally, I did not realize in a thread titled Jane Austen-Masterpiece Theater that my observations would have to be limited to Austen's written word... I thought that this was a discussion of portrayals of Austen's characters; in both her own original writings and the subsequent recent dramatic interpretations that seemed to be the subject most discussed on this thread.

If a scholarly interpretation of character types is to be compiled, using the best available information both on Austen and MBTI, I must apologize for falling far short of the qualifications necessary for such an endeavour.

I highly enjoyed reading your longer post and very happy to see someone take such enjoyment in discussing the issues.
 

INTJMom

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I don't see Mr. Bennet as an INTJ. He mostly keeps to his library, reading and appreciating his two older daughters. He's not openly critical of people, even Darcy, though he makes fun of them. He's a very Rational man; INTJs seem more emotional to me than that.

I see him as more of a P than a J. Eg, he avoids taking a stand with Lydia; rather than forbidding her to go to Brighton, he avoids a confrontation and hopes for the best. If we assume he's INTP, his wife would be his opposite, as she certainly seems to be - social, opinionated, engineering meetings between her daughters and eligible men, "a woman with a mission." Her husband is much more likely to let things develop and only deal with them when absolutely necessary.

When proved wrong, he swings all the way over to the other side - "no officers will be ever be allowed in town." That feels like a very familiar INTP pattern to me. And an INTJ who said he wasn't allowing Lydia and Wickham into his home after their cobbled-together marriage would really mean it.

Jae Rae
I agree. INTP or perhaps INFP.

I think Mrs. Bennett is an ESTP or perhaps ESFP. I don't know those types well.
She's "silly" in her husband's opinion, and he's lost all respect for her.
 

INTJMom

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...and additionally, I did not realize in a thread titled Jane Austen-Masterpiece Theater that my observations would have to be limited to Austen's written word... I thought that this was a discussion of portrayals of Austen's characters; in both her own original writings and the subsequent recent dramatic interpretations that seemed to be the subject most discussed on this thread.

If a scholarly interpretation of character types is to be compiled, using the best available information both on Austen and MBTI, I must apologize for falling far short of the qualifications necessary for such an endeavour.
So sorry. You are quite right.
This thread was originally started to discuss the Masterpiece Theatre presentations that are playing every week in Jan through March.

I was being too much of a purist, I guess, as usual.

And with an avatar like that, you are certainly more than welcome!! :wubbie:
 

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I agree. INTP or perhaps INFP.

I think Mrs. Bennett is an ESTP or perhaps ESFP. I don't know those types well.
She's "silly" in her husband's opinion, and he's lost all respect for her.

I think she's ESFJ, she reminds me of some I have known. From this book I read about the games types play, she seems to play the worrying game very well. So have the ESFJ I am thinking of.
 

Jae Rae

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So sorry. You are quite right.
This thread was originally started to discuss the Masterpiece Theatre presentations that are playing every week in Jan through March.

I was being too much of a purist, I guess, as usual.

I was typing according to the 1995 A&E version of Pride & Prejudice, which to my mind is the superior dramatization. I've read the book but don't remember enough to go by that.

Jae Rae
 

INTJMom

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I think she's ESFJ, she reminds me of some I have known. From this book I read about the games types play, she seems to play the worrying game very well. So have the ESFJ I am thinking of.
Well, I guess I was buying into the stereotype of the "silly" SP female.
She's also conniving and manipulative the way she makes Jane go to Netherfield, knowing it will rain, that Jane will get sick, that they'll be obliged to keep her there, etc.

She is shallow-minded because she was all worried about Lydia running away until she found out Lydia was going to get married. Marriage fixed everything. She wasn't embarrassed about the way in which her daughter's "scandalously patched up marriage" shone a bad light on the family reputation.

I just think of SJs as socially proper people. They are the traditionalists. The stalwarts of society.
 

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Well, I guess I was buying into the stereotype of the "silly" SP female.
She's also conniving and manipulative the way she makes Jane go to Netherfield, knowing it will rain, that Jane will get sick, that they'll be obliged to keep her there, etc.

She is shallow-minded because she was all worried about Lydia running away until she found out Lydia was going to get married. Marriage fixed everything. She wasn't embarrassed about the way in which her daughter's "scandalously patched up marriage" shone a bad light on the family reputation.

I just think of SJs as socially proper people. They are the traditionalists. The stalwarts of society.

The appreance of being proper is very important, but if they have negative traits, they can be very improper in private, they can lead double lives, especially for F with T shadow. jmo. I have had trouble typing my MIL because her external persona with strangers is very different from the side the family knows. It can be so confusing.

BTW, it is her worrying and cries of "nerves" that most makes me want to say ESFJ because of my experiences with them, but I could be wrong in her case of course. I think an ESFP might be more relaxed about the marry well bit too. Lack of proper education in culture might effect how well an SJ adheres to the external standard, they can only adhere as they understand it to be. Any type can be affected by lack of basic perspective on themselves (neurotic) and how they relate to others as well I am thinking. She might well have been ESFP.

(Warning, I am being NP here, exploring the idea for the sheer sake of exploring. I am not married to any of my guesses here, enjoying hearing other pov.)
 

Hirsch63

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Well, see if you can wrap your mind around this: Mrs. Bennett in virtually every respect, resembles my mother.

I am not kidding. I greatly sympathize with Lizzie and Mr. Bennett.

The irony of this is that when all these Austen dramatizations started to air...Mom fell absolutely in love with them to the point of obsession. She could not even see herself in Mrs. Bennett...It was mind-bending.

Of course I would not want to see myself as Mr. Collins....and perhaps I am closest to him in many ways though I would like to be indentified with just about anyone else. At least he is focused.
 

INTJMom

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Well, see if you can wrap your mind around this: Mrs. Bennett in virtually every respect, resembles my mother.

I am not kidding. I greatly sympathize with Lizzie and Mr. Bennett.

The irony of this is that when all these Austen dramatizations started to air...Mom fell absolutely in love with them to the point of obsession. She could not even see herself in Mrs. Bennett...It was mind-bending.

Of course I would not want to see myself as Mr. Collins....and perhaps I am closest to him in many ways though I would like to be identified with just about anyone else. At least he is focused.
I would find it hard to believe anyone would actually be like Mr. Collins. I don't think you have to worry about that.
 

INTJMom

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online text of Pride and Prejudice

Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. Search, Read, Study, Discuss.

Just as a talking point, I thought I would quote this piece from the book. This is the only insight into Mr & Mrs Bennet's relationship we get, in a large chunk anyway. I highlighted the parts that give insight into Mrs. Bennet. Maybe it might help give us insight into her type.


"Chapter 42
HAD Elizabeth's opinion been all drawn from her own family, she could not have formed a very pleasing picture of conjugal felicity or domestic comfort. Her father, captivated by youth and beauty, and that appearance of good humour which youth and beauty generally give, had married a woman whose weak understanding and illiberal mind had, very early in their marriage, put an end to all real affection for her. Respect, esteem, and confidence had vanished for ever; and all his views of domestic happiness were overthrown. But Mr. Bennet was not of a disposition to seek comfort, for the disappointment which his own imprudence had brought on, in any of those pleasures which too often console the unfortunate for their folly or their vice. He was fond of the country and of books; and from these tastes had arisen his principal enjoyments. To his wife he was very little otherwise indebted, than as her ignorance and folly had contributed to his amusement. This is not the sort of happiness which a man would in general wish to owe to his wife; but where other powers of entertainment are wanting, the true philosopher will derive benefit from such as are given.
Elizabeth, however, had never been blind to the impropriety of her father's behaviour as a husband. She had always seen it with pain; but respecting his abilities, and grateful for his affectionate treatment of herself, she endeavoured to forget what she could not overlook, and to banish from her thoughts that continual breach of conjugal obligation and decorum which, in exposing his wife to the contempt of her own children, was so highly reprehensible. But she had never felt so strongly as now the disadvantages which must attend the children of so unsuitable a marriage, nor ever been so fully aware of the evils arising from so ill-judged a direction of talents; talents which rightly used, might at least have preserved the respectability of his daughters, even if incapable of enlarging the mind of his wife."


By the way, in Webster's 1828 definition, illiberal meant something different than it does today.

1. Not noble; not ingenuous; of a contracted mind. Cold in charity; in religion, illiberal.

2. Not candid; uncharitable in judging.

3. Not generous; not munificent; sparing of gifts.

4. Not becoming a well bred man.

5. Not pure; not well authorized or elegant; as illiberal words in Latin.
 

Jae Rae

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Here's another link:

Miladies, milords, this way for the Austen party

The Jane Austen Society has been meeting in San Francisco. Although I'm not a JASNA member, I attended the last SF meeting in 1997 and it was really fun, with lectures about her books, exhibits, and lots of folks dressed in period costume.

Jae Rae
 

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Well, see if you can wrap your mind around this: Mrs. Bennett in virtually every respect, resembles my mother.

I am not kidding. I greatly sympathize with Lizzie and Mr. Bennett.

The irony of this is that when all these Austen dramatizations started to air...Mom fell absolutely in love with them to the point of obsession. She could not even see herself in Mrs. Bennett...It was mind-bending.

Of course I would not want to see myself as Mr. Collins....and perhaps I am closest to him in many ways though I would like to be indentified with just about anyone else. At least he is focused.

I would find it hard to believe anyone would actually be like Mr. Collins. I don't think you have to worry about that.


DO you have an elegant benefactress? :thelook:
 

Hirsch63

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Alas, Our Master has not yet favoured me with the condescension of one elegant enough to sustain me in my vocation.
 
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