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Thread: Inception

  1. #41
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    SPOILERS

    4) Yeah, I think it was an "audition" set up by Saito to see if he'd be able to tell whether he was dreaming or not, though I was confused by that at the time. I'm not sure who the guy chasing him was, when he met the forger. That was a bit confusing for me.

    8) I was, a bit. It looked a bit like a corporate city or something. Like a really boring, desolate downtown area, with a couple of old country house remnants from another time period. I mean, you got 50 years! Do something cooler!

    11) It did, to me. I thought the movie did a good job at making it seem like the alternate realities were ultimately unsatisfying. I wanted him to be able to get out of his dream existences and really get to have a life with his kids. To reclaim his hold on what's real and what's not, and maybe to try to get rid of the guilt he's carried around. I did like that they didn't really let you know for sure. I could have sworn the top was slowing down, though...

    I wondered why Cobb couldn't just kill himself and Mal to get out of limbo the first time, too, for the greater good. But then maybe he felt like it would do irreparable damage to their relationship to force his wife out of the world she loved. And then ironically, it did, anyway.
    Something Witty

  2. #42
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    SPOILERS

    4) Yeah, I think it was an "audition" set up by Saito to see if he'd be able to tell whether he was dreaming or not, though I was confused by that at the time. I'm not sure who the guy chasing him was, when he met the forger. That was a bit confusing for me.
    Yes, the dream in the beginning was an audition conducted by Saito to ensure that Cobb and his team were well-suited for the task of enacting inception on Fischer.

    I believe the guy that was chasing after Cobb when he met with Eames was an agent from Cobalt Engineering, Fischer's company, sent to investigate a suspicion that Saito's company (Cobalt's foremost competition) would attempt some sort of foul play in order to dismantle Cobalt. I don't know why Cobalt Engineering was suspicious of Saito's actions; I'm not sure if that was ever fully explained.

    I really need to see this movie again...

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    Oh, I guess I forgot to post this here:

    INCEPTION: THE COBOL JOB

    (Click the arrows for ease of reading)

    Makes it clear it wasn't a test, unless Saito allowed it to happen.

  4. #44
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The thing that bothered me about this movie was that the dreams weren't very... dreamlike, you know?
    These dreams were specifically crafted with a very specific goal in mind by the architect. Fischer's high school crush playing a recorder or a unicorn in a suit probably don't have much of a place in Cobb's plan. Now, you could argue these things would be in Fischer's subconscious, but he was generally segregated from other people, and there's nothing to say he saw these out-of-place people and just sort of accepted it, as one often does in a dream.
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Too much work! I'll just stick to my unanswered/interesting questions.

    SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY
    I'll say it again: LOADS OF SPOILERS IN THIS POST!

    Okay, to make it a bit easier to read, I'm going to pull all the questions off quote.

    These answers are based on my understanding of the story. I don't have anything to back it up. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

    1) Did anyone else have any trouble hearing the dialogue? Esp. the Japanese guy, Saito.
    Not really. Well, he's got a Japanese accent, so it might be a bit difficult to comprehend. But I was also reading subtitles at the same time, so maybe that helped Also, I think the Forger had a British accent? Maybe that's why he was a bit difficult to understand.

    4) Was the first dream within a dream a test by Saito? I thought they were hired by rivals of Saito, but then I read later when I got home it was all a test set up by him. If so, who was chasing Cobb when he went to meet with the Forger, Eames?

    No, the team was hired by Saito's rivals (COBOL group, who were seen chasing them later on), but Saito had had some prior training in protecting his dream, and Mal showing up messed things up, so the mission failed. However, Saito saw their talent and wanted to use it, so he hired them.

    5) Am I right that any of the team can alter the dream? Cobb did this subconsciously, but I don't know if this was a rare problem, or if anyone could do it. I assume that the car and guns aren't put there by the architect, hence the line (I heard it!) about dreaming "a bigger gun". Basically, why'd they have a dream machine on the third level? They weren't expecting to go any deeper.
    I think so, but here is what I think:

    The Dreamer: serves as the 'canvas' in each layer and holds the dream in that layer together (therefore cannot leave their layer, or the dream collapses)
    The Architect: designs all layers (and is free to travel through the layers)
    The Subject: populates the dream with subconscious projections
    The Forger: impersonates someone the Subject knows to get secrets
    Other people: just players who can move around

    I agree with ReflecttcelfeR that you don't want to alter the reality in the dream too much (like pulling guns out from nowhere), because it alerts the Subject's subconscious that it is a dream.

    About the dream machine, I thought they could always have spares, you know, in case one breaks

    6) Speaking of the dream machine, why do they need it in the dreams other than to fool Fischer? It's all imaginary at that point, why not just take the red pill? Or maybe it was the blue pill...
    My understanding is, with a new layer of dream (dream within a dream), the first-layer dream becomes 'the reality'. This is why when the car falls off the bridge the second-layer dream also goes zero-g. However, why this effect doesn't reach the third layer is beyond me. Perhaps physical effects (gravity, water, etc.) reach only the layer directly beneath it?

    7) If they can alter the dream, why don't they do it more often? I'd think a bullet-proof Iron Man suit would come in handy. Why couldn't anyone do what the Forger did? Did that require talent, training?
    Like what ReflecttcelfeR has said. Once the subject knows they are dreaming, the mission is over.

    8) Speaking of conjuring things, was anyone else disappointed by Limbo/Cobb's id? Architecture is great and all, but wouldn't a subconscious have Godzilla stomping thru or something? He was able to dream up his kids and wife. Hardly any sign of life otherwise. I was expecting something more trippy like Eternal Sunshine.
    I expected it to be worst, with the name limbo. The thing is, I don't think it's a very pleasant place and I can imagine that just falling into it must feel like crap already. So I suppose that's the best they could do.

    11) I saw OMW came to the same conclusion I did - does it really matter whether Cobb's life is but a dream or not? Does it matter to you?
    This is a very interesting question! Strangely, I asked myself and for me I don't care if it's got a 'happy ending' or not. He faced Mal. He faced his guilt, his grief. To me, the whole thing feels resolved already.

    But I swear the thing was really slowing down at the end! I like it how it ended like that. You know everyone in the cinema was staring at that thing

    12) Of course a lot of the above doesn't matter if it's all a dream. I didn't ask myself most of these questions until after, much like you don't question dream logic until you wake up. Was that all on purpose by Nolan?
    It's all a dream? Er.. that never occurred to me. But if it were, then what's the point?

    This brings up another question(s) about Limbo: how does one escape? Must it be willing? Why didn't Cobb just kill his wife and himself and wake up? Why bother with inception in the first place? How did Eames know when to use the defib on Fischer? Why didn't Fischer go to his own little Limbo area instead of Cobb's? Saito did.
    You escape by knowing you are in a dream and killing yourself. However, I think when Cobb and Mal were trapped in there the first time it was by accident. You only go to limbo when you get killed in a dream and can't wake up (e.g. you're sedated). So, getting killed in limbo won't do anything, because your body still cannot wake up. The only way is to wait it out until the drug wears off. However, Mal was going crazy so Cobb had to convince her they were living in the reality.

    Saito didn't go to his own limbo area. The beach was the same place that Cobb and Mal dreamed up (you know, right at the beginning when Cobb washed ashore and got picked up by Saito's men). I think they said it somewhere that limbo is built up from collective subconsciousness (or something like that), so everyone in there gets to create a little bit of it.


    Interesting take on the totems! I'll have to think more about it.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZPowers View Post
    These dreams were specifically crafted with a very specific goal in mind by the architect. Fischer's high school crush playing a recorder or a unicorn in a suit probably don't have much of a place in Cobb's plan. Now, you could argue these things would be in Fischer's subconscious, but he was generally segregated from other people, and there's nothing to say he saw these out-of-place people and just sort of accepted it, as one often does in a dream.
    Yes, good points. And also, the goal was to prevent the mark from realizing he was in a dream. The more normal, the better.

    Clarification: The Architect designs the dream in real time. The actual dreamer learns the design, then dreams it. So while Ariadne designed the dream layouts, the dream itself might not follow the original design. Eames (who dreamed the Ice Fortress layer) modified Ariadne's original design so they could get in through an air duct, when it was clear they needed to finish the level far quicker than planned.

    The Dreamer: serves as the 'canvas' in each layer and holds the dream in that layer together (therefore cannot leave their layer, or the dream collapses)
    The Architect: designs all layers (and is free to travel through the layers)
    The Subject: populates the dream with subconscious projections
    The Forger: impersonates someone the Subject knows to get secrets
    Other people: just players who can move around
    That seems to be the gist.

    I agree with ReflecttcelfeR that you don't want to alter the reality in the dream too much (like pulling guns out from nowhere), because it alerts the Subject's subconscious that it is a dream.
    Yup. Eames did it because they needed to, but typically you don't want to; Ariadne modified Cobb's test dream too much and got abused by the projections and killed by Mal, way back when. So there is a natural restraint on any ad hoc dream modification that runs counter to the Dreamer's intent.

    EDIT:
    Interesting Links
    Inception's Dileep Rao Answers All Your Questions About Inception
    The Inception within the Inception
    An Illustrated Guide To The 5 Levels Of Inception
    Never Wake Up

    Also, tangent question:
    The father's name is Maurice Fischer.
    The son's name is ... Robert Fischer, Jr.
    Why is he called Jr. if they don't share the same name?
    Even if they do (the shared name might be Robert Maurice Fischer and the father is going by Maurice), the fact the son felt obligated to follow in his father's footsteps makes it sound inconceivable that the son wouldn't be sharing the same use name as his dad. They should be using the same name.

    Of course, there is also the obvious connection to Bobby Fischer, the renown chess player.
    Maybe the names don't even make sense... except as if in a dream.
    (another weird angle: Fischer = Chess Player = Chess piece used by Ariadne, I think it was a bishop or pawn)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    new typology test:

    Did you like Inception?

    If you "ABSOLUTELY HATED IT":
    SJ

    If you could "take it or leave it":
    SP

    If you "generally liked it":
    NP

    If you REALLY LOVED IT:
    NJ

    This has been true for about 95% of the people I have talked to about the film. Hearing the SJ reaction to this film is HILARIOUS. Most of them just complain about some stupid "tree" and fail to see "the forest". I normally dont type hate, but this film has brought it out in me .
    and theory as to why NJ would love it more than NP?

  8. #48
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I guess we just have to accept that in Nolan's world, dreams are pretty normal, otherwise you realize it's a dream. But I think in our real dreams, no one would think twice about a friend turning into someone else, but us knowing they're still the friend, or Godzilla stomping through, or suddenly having an Iron Man suit. It's kinda weird that Saito has the presence of mind in his dream to go, "HOLD UP. Green shag carpet. Fake." In a real dream, you'd just roll with it, or register that you usually hate that, but not wake up over it. But I guess he was looking for a tell-tale sign, and conscious that his dreams had been tampered with before.

    In this world, is everyone worried their dreams might be tampered with? Would the average person worry about this? Is this something only a small sector of people (the rich, the military, etc) know about?
    Something Witty

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    In this world, is everyone worried their dreams might be tampered with? Would the average person worry about this? Is this something only a small sector of people (the rich, the military, etc) know about?
    I think Saito had been given the same dream defense training that Fischer had, so he was probably more aware inside the dream than the usual person.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I think Saito had been given the same dream defense training that Fischer had, so he was probably more aware inside the dream than the usual person.
    Yup. That was it.
    He also was educated enough to want to hire Cobb for this job.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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