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Thread: Inception

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    SPOILER ALERT



    1. How did Cobb and Saito get back to "reality" at the end without someone to give them the kick?

    2. Regarding the fourth dream level, the subconscious one that Cobb and Mal created...how is it that this is shared by everyone? How is it that Cobb knew Fisher and Saito were there? It seems to me that everyone would have their own subconscious and be lost to everyone else. Did they actually tap into the collective unconscious?
    1) They "laid their heads on the train tracks" so to speak. They were reciting the thing about being young together, so even though Saito had been living in his world for many years he still remembered enough to go back. The first time this happened to Cobb was with Mal and he had to perform inception on her to "burn" her connection with their present reality so she could be convinced to return.

    2) They never explain the mechanics of how people dream together, but Cobb and Mal did the very same thing. There seems to be nothing inherently different about the dream mechanics of entering or leaving the "4th" or subconscious dream state that would cause it to work any differently than 1-3, the defining factor is that it's so deep that in dream time you can be down there for 50+ years for only ~48 hours of being under (at a factor of 12 per level as they state 5 minutes is 1 hour at the first). As they say at the beginning, the mind perceives and creates at the same time without even knowing it's happening, and since it's subconscious it's purely what your mind creates. So after such long periods of time spent there I imagine it's difficult for anyone but the most experienced dreamers still know the difference between that and reality and even fathom that there's a reason they need to "wake up".

    That is why people get lost there and it fucks them up in the head so they never know what's real and what's dream after that (Id think some would even spend more time in the dream world than they'd be alive in the real world, hence why they were saying that the dream becomes more of a reality than reality itself). That's why Cobb performed inception on Mal, and he had to deal with the reality that that it wasn't his fault that it was his inception that kept growing that eventually caused her to kill herself even after she woke up... because it's what he had to do to try and get her back. When someone feels guilty, touching on that makes them defensive which is why Mal had always been such an aggressive projection. It was Cobb's subconscious guilt about killing the woman he spent a lifetime with by the inception process that manifested itself throughout the movie as a means to self sabotage their mission to perform inception on Fisher.

    Maybe the machine that maintains the sedation also connects the dreamer with some kind of transmitter of their neurological mapping? I didn't bother paying much attention to it because it was clearly something supposedly invented in the future. It could be practically anything.

  2. #22
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    I liked it. One that I definitely need to see again.

  3. #23
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    Ariadne for INFJ. She seemed to care too much for an INTP

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Agreed on your typings, though towards the end I started to wonder if Ariadne was an INFJ, just based on her insights into Cobb's character. Whatever, she's still a quintessential Architect, and Arthur was the quintessential ISTJ.

    Throughout this movie, I couldn't stop thinking about Jungian Archetypes and dream analysis. "The waters of the subconscious", landing you upon a shore "where you could create your own world and become a god" sounds like some of Jung's writing.

    Sorry, don't mean to spoil anything.

    I really don't think the makers were trying to confuse you, I think they were trying to create meaning in complexity. For such an intricate plot, I was impressed not to see any inconsistencies other than one that baffled me at the end.
    This movie is Ni. Its about reality having layers. Symbols are more than just drawings, even representations of time, perception etc, all can represent other things in a layered view of reality. The ocean sort of made me think of the "collective unconscious" as Jung would put it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    Overall I liked the movie. Seemed like a very Ni movie. Talking about perception, reality, what's real and what's not etc

    SPOILER

    Regarding the collective unconscious: I have a few thoughts
    Regarding why Cobb/Mal: I think the reason they go to their created limbo was because Cobb's psychic barriers no longer contain Mal. He's tried to stuff her down in his unconscious but she keeps trying to escape. So, the deeper they go the stronger she gets. I think people would go to their 'own' limbo but go to theirs because his barriers no longer function. Also, they share this place because they shared the dream in the first place.

    Second: I want to hear people's thoughts on the ending. I think there are two interpretations

    The first is that Cobb never woke up and went deeper into the dream state. He succumbed to limbo and everyone there is a projection. He has seen them before so his mind can assimilate them. Maybe this is what his limbo looks like after he disposes of Mal and clears his baggage.

    The second is much more boring. Its just that he wakes up and goes home.


    I think both are in fact possible, but I lean towards the second only because the dradle noise indicated that it was slowing

  4. #24
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    I've seen it twice and my favorite aspect is *spoiler alert* going to white...

    Is the time folding itself over and multiplying. On the first level of the dream it's only 30 seconds, while on the fourth it's days. I like Nolan's back tracking to the first level of the dream where the van was falling, I found it funny.

    If I remember right Cobb talks about Limbo being the remenants of the last person who resided within it, thus the reason why it's Cobb's 'limbo'. I think the closeness of the people in the dream does make sense from them to be collectively in the same limbo.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I really liked the movie. It's amazing to me the work that went into writing the script in a way that makes the film not completely baffling and unintelligible, and also convinced a studio to commit the money to make the film.
    Considering it was Christopher Nolan, it's not a big surprise -- he has a proven track record for the last ten years. And he actually was greenlighted to write it as a project but decided to do it as a spec script instead, to have more time I guess...

    Honestly, the guy is amazing when it comes to editing; he does movies that could easily fall apart considering all the weird time and space jumps... and yet he pulls it off (or close to it) nearly every time. The Batman movies and Insomnia were actually the easier pieces, in terms of editing; The Prestige, Inception, and Memento were pretty crazy, in terms of making the story intelligible AND only revealing what you need to reveal regardless of which time you're in.

    Not only does he keep things pretty clear and trackable, but his movies still tend to be about the inner psychology of the characters, not the external issues. Inception was really more about Cobb coming to terms with Mal and seeing his kids again (and Fisher coming to terms with his dad, as sort of a smaller reflection of Cobb's issue).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Not only does he keep things pretty clear and trackable, but his movies still tend to be about the inner psychology of the characters, not the external issues. Inception was really more about Cobb coming to terms with Mal and seeing his kids again (and Fisher coming to terms with his dad, as sort of a smaller reflection of Cobb's issue).


    I don't get it when people say it's too intellectual and not emotional enough. I cried >_>

  7. #27
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    Yeah, I cried too at the end, when Mal died (and he said he had to let her go and move on)... and when he saw his kid's faces.

    The whole Fisher subplot was great too -- how to get him to accept the desired thought plant in a positive, rather than negative, vein. That's really the sort of shift in thinking that will effectively make Fisher do what they want. He focused on that picture of him as a kid, and instead of pulling out the will, pulls out the pinwheel.

    But really, all of Nolan's work is like this. Intricate plotting, but it's always about the people. Everything centers on them coming to terms with some secret they've been harboring, sometimes even from themselves.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
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    new typology test:

    Did you like Inception?

    If you "ABSOLUTELY HATED IT":
    SJ

    If you could "take it or leave it":
    SP

    If you "generally liked it":
    NP

    If you REALLY LOVED IT:
    NJ

    This has been true for about 95% of the people I have talked to about the film. Hearing the SJ reaction to this film is HILARIOUS. Most of them just complain about some stupid "tree" and fail to see "the forest". I normally dont type hate, but this film has brought it out in me .

  9. #29
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    Hm, I don't know if that's a good summation of the types and how they feel about the movie. I saw it with about 6 other NPs and we all "REALLY LOVED IT."

    The film can appeal to Ne just as much as it does to Ni. The film is like a web of dreams and symbols and hidden meanings, with each detail leading to a new insight/meaning. I think Ns in general will really go for this film, as it's action with an enigmatic twist.

    The film also appeals to Se with all the detailed, captivating action scenes that basically engulf you with the lush, fantastical environment.

  10. #30
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    The thing that bothered me about this movie was that the dreams weren't very... dreamlike, you know?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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