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Thread: Star Trek

  1. #21
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I dislike it because it often tastes like propaganda.
    lol, yes.... if there is something I cannot stand, it is a story that is beating me over the head trying to make a point, esp in a lopsided way.

    I can deal knowing that a story is making a point -- but sometimes TNG just was so smarmy about it and felt inauthentic because of it.

    Meanwhile, I can look at TOS with episodes (sorry, geekboys, I don't recall the actual names) like the one with the two enemies -- one black/white, the other white/black -- who couldn't stop fighting over such stupidity despite the destruction of both of their races, or the story where two nations were fighting "kinder gentler wars" by just simulating the death and telling citizens to report to extermination chambers when their number came up as a casualty, and Kirk smashes their computers so they'd have incentive to actually make peace... and those approaches, while raw, actually seemed to say something honestly.

    Anyway, TNG wins for character and culture development; TOS wins for raw issue exploration.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22
    Member Aven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    You misunderstand me.

    I don't dislike it because I think Roddenberry and company tried to use it as a vehicle for effecting social change (which, by the way, I think they did). I dislike it because behind the storylines and special effects I can sometimes detect a hint of the didactic stridency that came through Winston Smith's video feed. I don't dislike it because it's propaganda; I dislike it because it often tastes like propaganda.

    And as has been said earlier, this was in large part (but not completely) Roddenberry's doing.
    Well there is a limit to how much of that you can actually believe and take in, if it rings true to you and it's positive in nature for you I don't see why not.
    However if you see it as negative it's your right to resist it and dislike it, personally I didn't completely like ever single episode of it, I just related to more characters better, specifically Data [of course] and Guinan, in fact I don't even like Picard as much as everyone seems to love him, I found him boring at times aside for the Shakespearan rants, and that's only because I like Shakespeare.
    I don't believe anything in this world is completely free of flaws, so in my opinion I will take what's good about something or what works for me and that's that. This doesn't mean other people can't have beef with things, that's their right.
    Deja que pasemos sin miedo.

  3. #23
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aven View Post
    Well there is a limit to how much of that you can actually believe and take in, if it rings true to you and it's positive in nature for you I don't see why not.
    However if you see it as negative it's your right to resist it and dislike it, personally I didn't completely like ever single episode of it, I just related to more characters better, specifically Data [of course] and Guinan, in fact I don't even like Picard as much as everyone seems to love him, I found him boring at times aside for the Shakespearan rants, and that's only because I like Shakespeare.
    I don't believe anything in this world is completely free of flaws, so in my opinion I will take what's good about something or what works for me and that's that. This doesn't mean other people can't have beef with things, that's their right.
    I wouldn't like it even if I agreed wholeheartedly with the message. Like I said, it's not the propaganda that I dislike; it's the flavor of propaganda.

  4. #24
    Junior Member missellis75's Avatar
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    This seems like a discussion about TOS and TNG only... don't forget that there were 5 flavors of star trek.

    TOS defo. wins in the campy and propoganda arenas, but in it's defence it is simply classic, and like most revolutionary things hard to fully appriciate in heinsight.

    TNG had some of the best acting and characters ever writen in sf history... but also Dianna Troi and Wesely Crusher... who pretty much ruined any chance of that show being remotly enjoyable.

    ST Voyager was shamelessly redundant, but with occasionally ground-breaking. Episodes like "Future's End" and "Workforce."

    DS9 is my all-time favorite for character depth and reality. I think that they achived this by veering away from the tradtional star trek setting and character molds. Also there are some TNG characters that resurface.

    Ent was from the beging clearly going to be nothing new or revolutionary, but the inter-character drama and the massive plot archs kept devoted trekkies comming back for more. But thats exactly the kind of popularity that only lasts 4 seasons (one of which is just one massive arc about the xindi--over did it there...).

    The movies cant really be pinned down, they are an entity within themselves, and as long as you avoid 3, 5, 6, and 10.

  5. #25
    F CK all I need is U ilikeitlikethat's Avatar
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    Was going to make a thread called 'Star Trek Vs. Star Wars' and have a poll with 4 options; Star Trek, Star Wars, Both. and I don't care. but this is better.

    I like Star Trek, it's cool, the first time I ever went to a cinema/theater was to see Star Trek Generations (1994) with my two older brothers.

    Love DS9 and Voyager but in general; Star Trek's cool.

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