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Thread: WORLD CUP 2010

  1. #241
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    ^^^Perhaps they are jsut forced to go on parades and to say that? It would hardly be unheard of. So what's your convincing evidence that North Koreans really think what their government tells you they think?
    Perhaps in many cases they have a legitimate desire to defend their state from takeover by the IMF and World Bank. This doesn't mean they all actually think it's a "paradise" or believe in Juche..
    I think its persuasive that they believe in Juche and their government because they have no reason not to, non-propagandistic sources are very scarce as the government has nearly full control over public information.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    ^^^Perhaps in many cases they have a legitimate desire to defend their state from takeover by the IMF and World Bank. This doesn't mean they all actually think it's a "paradise" or believe in Juche...
    They have anti-Western views that haven't been inspired by the government? How? Were they exposed to a source of information other than the government somehow? Very few of them may have been, but I just don't see how a significant percentage of North Koreans could have.

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    ^^^So I am asking seriously, are you an expert in this? and if so, you'd be able to recommend a good book or article or something backing up your claims.
    No, but the information I am giving you is consistent with expert consensus, this is why I am asking you to watch youtube videos created by BBC, National Geographic and other reliable journalistic sources. The videos are readily available on youtube. The journalists weren't experts, but they interviewed experts.
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  2. #242
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    I thought this thread was meant to be about football, not politics... :rolli:


    For my on topic comment, I thought Argentina look particularly impressive, especially going forward. I'm not so sure about their defense and goalkeeper, but on current evidence they may not be really tested for a long time in this tournament.
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  3. #243
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    I thought this thread was meant to be about football, not politics... :rolli:.
    I don't think you can separate the two, the game would not be nearly as popular in the world had it not had such profound sociopolitical connotations.
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  4. #244
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I don't think you can separate the two, the game would not be nearly as popular in the world had it not had such profound sociopolitical connotations.
    Possibly, but this thread appears to be for discussing the world cup itself, not "The International sociopolitical connotations of Football", which sounds like a separate debate topic to me.
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  5. #245
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    Never realized how short Maradona was until they showed him hugging Messi and Messi towered over him
    He's almost a cube now. Nice suits, though.
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  6. #246
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    Default [France VS. Mexico.]

    Oh, damn.

  7. #247
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    i don't usually watch soccer matches unless it's the world cup, and I'd like to make a remark

    It is absolutely HILARIOUS to watch all the fake injuries. Especially the ones from the "fights". it's like a few slaps and a guy goes down like he's been shot. they'll show it on instant replay and it's absolutely hilarious to see it not add up. Are they pussies? No, they're athletes performing in front of a billion or more people.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  8. #248
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    France is ALWAYS a slow starting team. ).
    Maybe true, but now they are not only a slow starting team but also an altogether underperforming squad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Even when it achieves excellent results overall, it never topped its group and looked rather disappointing at first glance.
    It seems that the problem is deeper than that in the present world cup and so it has been in the EURO cup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    It is brilliant only when it reaches quarter-finals or more. .
    It appears that its a little too late, brilliance in the quarter-finals is worthless if you're going to put an absolutely dismal show in the first games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    That's probably why Brazil always lost against France when it had the honor to cross its path (But, on the other hand, the nemesis of France is Germany).
    They didn't even look like a team that could stand a chance against a European super-power like Germany, let alone Brazil. No, really, the first apologetic claim you made on the French team's behalf was completely understandable, they just needed some time to get their game together as many teams did, many teams struggled in the opening performance. We could buy that, but what on earth happened this time? Seems like more than a mere losing streak or a bad tournament as they got virtually the same result in the EURO cup. At least that time they scored one goal, this time they may well be on their way to a new low.
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  9. #249
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Apologies to ragashree, but Ima do this anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    I think its persuasive that they believe in Juche and their government because they have no reason not to, non-propagandistic sources are very scarce as the government has nearly full control over public information.



    They have anti-Western views that haven't been inspired by the government? How? Were they exposed to a source of information other than the government somehow? Very few of them may have been, but I just don't see how a significant percentage of North Koreans could have.



    No, but the information I am giving you is consistent with expert consensus, this is why I am asking you to watch youtube videos created by BBC, National Geographic and other reliable journalistic sources. The videos are readily available on youtube. The journalists weren't experts, but they interviewed experts.
    I think you're being very rationalist, assuming that people simply choose the best from a set of ideas presented to them.

    However the Korean people had a social reovlution on the promise of equality and social ownership of the means of production, not in order to install a personaliy cult. It is unlikely for this memory to have disappeared completely. Likewise they can in many cases now see that a tiny bureaucracy lives in luxury, even reserving the right to use the elegant Pyongyang metro system purely for its own use. And you're telling me that there's no way that a great number of people of people could silently (at least, to the outside world silently), resent this?

    Plenty of revolutions inhsitory did not happen because of an enlightened set of rational philosophies being presented from the outside, but rather because the people percieved injsutice instinctively and becuase their suffering became too much to bear. Do you think the Chinese workers and students who set up the Commune of Shanghai in 1967 were acting on the basis of foreign news sources, or on their own instinctive drive for equality and control over the wealth they created? (And in part on the memory of the original reovlutionary struggle in the country). In fact the main riving force here was that the masses percieved the contradiicton between the words of the regime, and its actions.

    Now I am not saying that in itself a "national" movement, isolated form others, is neough. That would be the antithesis of what I think. But neither do I buy that people simply select, rationally, between different schools of thought offered to them. Rather that human consciousness is contradictory, confused, and ofen instinctive. Examples from other former very isolated states like Albania would seem to back me up on this.

    Regarding the reports you mention, BBC is far form reliable. The BBC is actually terribly dishonest. For example they constantly refer to the resistance fighters ina fghanistan as "the Taliban", despite the US army having admitted that the great majority ar enot religiously motivated. Likewise the BBC with regards to Thailand, reported that the cause of the recent problems was "a corrupt populist President sowing hatred for the rich amongst the poor", as its main editorial line.

    Nat Geographic is perhaps more interesting. But I was thinking more of a serious study, seeing as you spoke with such certainty.
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  10. #250
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post

    It is absolutely HILARIOUS to watch all the fake injuries. Especially the ones from the "fights". it's like a few slaps and a guy goes down like he's been shot. they'll show it on instant replay and it's absolutely hilarious to see it not add up. Are they pussies? No, they're athletes performing in front of a billion or more people.
    It is a funny display, isn't it?

    In most cases, it's strategy designed to facilitate a free kick - something that could feasibly change the outcome of the game. So, although it looks silly - especially on slow-motion replay - "diving" is actually an integral part of many successful soccer teams.

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