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  1. #41
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ I don't mean it like that; I mean that the author gets to tidily toss aside a certain reality in favor of the things he or she wants to reveal to you the reader.
    I could maybe imagine it if she had set it far in the future, but no: when things "start happening," the main character is at least out of college -- at least 22. By the end of the story, she is almost 40. It's not enough time.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Thanks for the explanation H. I hear what you are saying. I think though it's important to remember that the very definition of a dystopia excludes certain social issues and isolates and exaggerates others in order to point out negative qualities of the ones under examination.

    Thus, many of the "loose ends" you rightly point out here, are *poof* magically gone. So interestingly, complaining about the lack of realism is irrelevant in the context of any dystopian "thought experiment."
    I disagree.

    Good dystopias are more realistic; bad dystopias are less realistic.

    This relates back to Haphazard and my earlier discussion about dystopias, and how Phillip K. Dick's and Ray Bradbury's are the best, as they're the most realistic, and, hence, not only have applied at one time, but seem to continue to apply more accurately with each passing year.

    "Brave New World" is still a pretty good dystopia, but, in my opinion, not as good as Dick's or Bradbury's.

    "1984", well, that vision is not as accurate today as it was when he wrote the book (obviously, this is not entirely the case, and in certain countries it is more or less accurate than in others, but, on the whole, Orwell's vision, while important, has lost a bit of relevance with age).

    This "The Handmaid's Tale", on the other hand, well, I haven't read it, but...

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ I don't mean it like that; I mean that the author gets to tidily toss aside a certain reality in favor of the things he or she wants to reveal peddle to you the reader.

  4. #44
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Good, bad ... that's pretty subjective terminology you are using. The intent of the dystopia is make you rethink the values surrounding a societal issue, from small to large. Just because that VISION comes or doesn't come true, as the future unrolls, doesn't make it good or bad per se.

    It's too bad (in a way) you haven't read the book as it makes it hard for you to place it in any relevant context anyway.


    Edit: I don't disagree with your word substitution above. Either works.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #45
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Good, bad ... that's pretty subjective terminology you are using. The intent of the dystopia is make you rethink the values surrounding a societal issue, from small to large. Just because that VISION comes or doesn't come true, as the future unrolls, doesn't make it good or bad per se.

    It's too bad (in a way) you haven't read the book as it makes it hard for you to place it in any relevant context anyway.
    Perhaps it's because I do not see the societal issue in hand as an issue.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #46
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ Aha - what IS the societal issue, as you see it?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #47
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ Aha - what IS the societal issue, as you see it?
    The one in the book or the one today?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Good, bad ... that's pretty subjective terminology you are using. The intent of the dystopia is make you rethink the values surrounding a societal issue, from small to large. Just because that VISION comes or doesn't come true, as the future unrolls, doesn't make it good or bad per se.
    Meh...

    Maybe if you buy into a flabby, weak-minded relativism...

    Use whatever terms you want: good, bad, crap, a godsend...

    What is important to realize is that a dystopia is more valuable to society if the issues it brings to the forefront are more accurate and realistic (i.e., genuinely and increasingly problematic to society).

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    It's too bad (in a way) you haven't read the book as it makes it hard for you to place it in any relevant context anyway.
    Yeah.

    It's too bad that there are a lot of books that I haven't read (and never will)...

    C'est la vie...



    What I can say is that this picture deeply disturbs me, and that I (and almost every American) would never let such a thing take place in our society.

  9. #49
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    there seemed to be very little discussion of globalism in the book, though, just the use of ultraconservatism as a means to control and perpetuate the populace.
    I was giving a possible reason for the the critics which praise the tale's actuality, I wasn't commenting on the content itself.

  10. #50
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    What I can say is that this picture deeply disturbs me, and that I (and almost every American) would never let such a thing take place in our society.
    Perhaps it's just offensive that a Canadian would think so little of us.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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