Last season of "Lost" aka WTF?!

[kendoiwan]

I'm reading what you say, how you say it, and what is insinuated by it. The way people set their feet in a discussion and what they respond to, don't respond to, and how they respond to it is all indicators of stance and purpose to me. Specific content itself (i.e., the specific words and stated ideas) is just one factor.

That's you and others assuming, and reading into my statements selectively. I repeatedly said, this is how I see it and I don't knock anyone else who sees it different. I went out of my way to point out millions of people fell on both sides of the "debate" so there was no one right answer.
I don't insinuate. I say what I think.

lol... To me, when you don't specify, you're insisting that your view is a universal standard -- "this is just how it is!"

I said, "the standard is my own etc..." Someone wasn't "listening".

Anyway, now it sounds like we're both on the same page?

Agreeing to disagree and enjoying (or not), the ride? Sure.

EDIT: Note I inadvertently used the phrase "to me" twice in this post alone. Yes, I specify... it's part of qualifying things, to me. DARN, THREE TIMES!!! Arrrgg!

Didn't notice too busy looking at your ass...

 

[Totenkindly]

That's you and others assuming, and reading into my statements selectively. I repeatedly said, this is how I see it and I don't knock anyone else who sees it different. I went out of my way to point out millions of people fell on both sides of the "debate" so there was no one right answer. I don't insinuate. I say what I think.

Everyone insinuates.

Again, I totally get where you are coming from -- but I see it as an "S" vs "N" thing. EVERYTHING resonates in the world. Words have context, even if you don't mean them to be.

Just like you're looking at this show, at the concrete details, and saying "They do not match." I'm looking at the same details but more focused on the relationship between them, and they DO accommodate each other. MacGuffin stated it all more succinctly than I did; you see pinpoints of data, I see direction and fluidity of the data flow.

Is light a particle or is it a wave?
Both realities exist at once.

Interestingly, I've had this same debate with just about every ISxP I've run across. After awhile, I caught on. So I'm more opining here just to put the POV in front of you, I don't expect you to agree.

Didn't notice too busy looking at your ass...

If you think that will save you... it just might.

 

[kendoiwan]

Fanboy rationalization

Pfft.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I don't want kendoiwan to feel all alone in here so ...

I gave up on Lost because I thought I had bought into another kind of show. The rules changed after season 2. The whole premise and set up of the show took another path. Characters that were deeply invested into were killed off (Boone, Shannon) for ... what? When the plot turned to "The Others" and then the other survivors and there was so much crazy stuff going on ... I lost interest in being yanked around like that.

It's just a personal preference; perhaps if I had stuck with the show I would have the satisfaction of it all being wrapped up with a neat bow at the end. But it just took a path I couldn't follow.

 

[Totenkindly]

(Boone, Shannon)

Meh... I hated Shannon with a passion.

I can see why it bothered you.
To me, it actually was positive: It told me there were no sacred cows.
Anyone might die, at any time.
Nothing is certain.

That is actually something I really like.




Although it sucked with Locke.
He was one of my favorites.
And his last thoughts? "I don't understand."
Uggh. Pathos.

(It's sort of like the whole classic arc from old Alpha Flight comics, by Marvel, back in the mid '80's -- the main character was unexpectedly killed off in Issue #12, an established character. I loved that, although I hated to see him go. Then, a number of issues later, he came back and was supposed to be alive, with some cockamamie story about why. It was lame... but just the sort of stuff that comic book writers use to bring back characters, so there was no reason to reject the story as fake. A few issues later, though, we find out it was all a lie, the guy is still dead, and the "fraud" ends up destroying most of the team. It was just classic.)

 

[MacGuffin]

It WON'T be wrapped up in a neat bow. It's to allegorical for that.

 

[kendoiwan]

It WON'T be wrapped up in a neat bow. It's to allegorical for that.

Which is why I made reference to The Wire, by the end of the show nothing was ever resolved, yet it all made perfect sense without me having to bend myself into a fanboy pretzel...

 

[Totenkindly]

I like pretzels.
With lots of salt.

 

[MacGuffin]

Which is why I made reference to The Wire, by the end of the show nothing was ever resolved, yet it all made perfect sense without me having to bend myself into a fanboy pretzel...

I don't find it hard to understand this show at all. That's why I was confused about your OP. This season is no different than the rest.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Meh... I hated Shannon with a passion.

I didn't like Shannon either ... but as a character they were actually evolving her, with her love for Sayid and then *wham* dead.

I invest a lot into characters when I watch shows or movies, so when they are arbitrarily "yanked around" or start to behave in emotionally inconsistent (or too persistent) ways I feel like the writers are being disrespectful of the reflective humanity in each (even though the characters aren't real people of course.)

 

[kendoiwan]

I don't find it hard to understand this show at all. That's why I was confused about your OP. This season is no different than the rest.

You confuse understanding with buying into...
I understand it perfectly well, and I scream BULLSHIT at the t.v. screen. Difference.

 

[PeaceBaby]

And introducing new characters is always a danger, too - the chemical mix of each changes and alters the path - I distinctly remember when they captured Jin and Sawyer and were torturing them, that's when I REALLY started to tune out. Like, who the hell are these people, I don't want these new characters, they weaken and dilute the plot. If you want to allude to their existence along the way I am fine with that, but as a viewer, its a disservice to suddenly introduce a new character and expect them to now solve problems or drive the plot.

Anyway, perhaps someday I will revisit it all on DVD when I can indulge in watching 2 or 3 episodes at a time, not having to wait inexorably week by week to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

 

[MacGuffin]

You confuse understanding with buying into...
I understand it perfectly well, and I scream BULLSHIT at the t.v. screen. Difference.

No you don't. There are no inconsistencies in the examples you gave. The biggest one was you didn't know why Eloise was the character that understands what's happening in the sideways timeline.

 

[Totenkindly]

And introducing new characters is always a danger, too - the chemical mix of each changes and alters the path - I distinctly remember when they captured Jin and Sawyer and were torturing them, that's when I REALLY started to tune out. Like, who the hell are these people, I don't want these new characters, they weaken and dilute the plot. If you want to allude to their existence along the way I am fine with that, but as a viewer, its a disservice to suddenly introduce a new character and expect them to now solve problems or drive the plot.

Anyway, perhaps someday I will revisit it all on DVD when I can indulge in watching 2 or 3 episodes at a time, not having to wait inexorably week by week to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

Definitely hard that way, to remember everything.

I missed most of Season #5, and i didn't catch up until about episode 9 of this season. I did a blitz on DVD and then on the ABC.COM site to get back on track before the end.

 

[kendoiwan]

No you don't. There are no inconsistencies in the examples you gave. The biggest one waoutou didn't know why Eloise was the character that understands what's happening in the sideways timeline.

Your explanations are religious. "There are all kinds of things that could explain the differences." Like? So you're saying Sun was infertile because Jacob made her infertile? Sawyer was a conman because Jacob made him one? Ben got on the island because Jacob got him on? In fact, at what point does the bomb going off = Jacob never existing?

"We don't know Jacobs motives so it still can make sense." Sure, it could.

The only thing you said that I buy, these are the whims of the writers.

 

[MacGuffin]

Your explanations are religious. "There are all kinds of things that could explain the differences." Like? So you're saying Sun was infertile because Jacob made her infertile? Sawyer was a conman because Jacob made him one? Ben got on the island because Jacob got him on? If fact, at what point does the bomb going off = Jacob never existing?

"We don't know Jacobs motives so it still can make sense." Sure, it could.

The only thing you said that I buy, these are the whims of the writers.

You're still not getting it. I just floated theories of why, but we don't know for sure. Look up chaos theory if you like. They could add another season and explain all the backstories of the sideways universe… but why? It doesn't really add anything.

Here's the biggest inconsistency on the thread:

long since stopped trying to make sense

I understand it perfectly well

 

[kendoiwan]

You're still not getting it. I just floated theories of why, but we don't know for sure. Look up chaos theory if you like. They could add another season and explain all the backstories of the sideways universe… but why? It doesn't really add anything.

Don't know and never will know. You don't mind that fine. Adds no value for you that's also fine. Does that in turn make you "right" and make me "wrong"? Not at all. It's funny that people keep accusing me of imposing my POV on them but it's quite the opposite.

Here's the biggest inconsistency on the thread:

What's inconsistent about the show not attempting or pretending to make sense as you acknowledge yourself, and me understanding that this is the writers advancing the plot? Not much at all.

 

[MacGuffin]

Don't know and never will know. You don't mind that fine. Adds no value for you that's also fine. Does that in turn make you "right" and make me "wrong"? Not at all. It's funny that people keep accusing me of imposing my POV on them but it's quite the opposite.



What's inconsistent about the show not attempting or pretending to make sense as you acknowledge yourself, and me understanding that this is the writers advancing the plot? Not much at all.

You're only wrong about it being an "inconsistency". They are simply unexplained details. Jennifer was right, this show might be a good illustration of N vs. S. To us you're not seeing the forest for the trees. Why Sawyer is cop might be interesting, but unimportant.

I suspect the sideways universe may be annihilated anyway.

The show does make sense. I never said otherwise.

 

[kendoiwan]

You're only wrong about it being an "inconsistency". They are simply unexplained details.

Riiiiiiiiiiight. Do not question the will of god, it's beyond us mere mortals to grasp.

Jennifer was right, this show might be a good illustration of N vs. S. To us you're not seeing the forest for the trees. Why Sawyer is cop might be interesting, but unimportant, to me my millions, but it is to you and your millions.

Fixed.

If being "right" makes you feel better, you're "right", I'm "wrong". You win.

 

[MacGuffin]

Like I said, the form of the show isn't for you.

I bet there will be spinoff novels about the sideways backstories if they interest you so much.