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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilrobot View Post
    Ben was never intended to be a likeable character, but a controversial one. You can argue that some of the worst things he did involved following Jacob’s oders, yet Jacob snubbed him. That struck a chord with me, though I’ve never had a naïve view of Ben as a “good guy"--not totally evil maybe, but far from good. I do, however, have a feeling he’s going to redeem himself in the end.
    You're misunderstanding me. I don't care about how "nice" the guy is. Originally, he was portrayed as very competent. He was the one in control, manipulating everyone with his elaborate plan. Now he's portrayed as incompetent, weak, manipulated. Hence, I don't like him anymore.

    Regarding his daughter, I don't care that she died. Ben is the one that cared, and he failed.
    When he killed Locke, I didn't care that Locke died. Ben was manipulated into believing that killing Locke was in his best interest.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    To be clear, I LOVE the character Locke. He's complicated and nuanced (or was, before he died- now he's a smoke monster). Only a well-drawn character could make me as mad as he does. Jack, on the other hand, I just can't really work up a big feeling about. He is not that well-drawn IMO. I sometimes sympathize with him when he's all WTF GUYS but then he suffers from the same hubris of certainty Locke does when it suits him.

    edit: SAYID FTW!
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  3. #23
    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I don't judge characters as good or evil more of what I find interesting, entertaining and sometimes charismatic.

    Here are the ones I like the best no particular order:

    Lock
    Michael Dawson
    Mr. Echo
    Ben
    Kate
    Sawyer
    Hurley
    Charlie
    That airline/helicopter pilot dude seems cool but the situations they fit him into seem awkward.
    The Asian guy who can talk to the dead
    The gay heavy set member of the others who came and visited Michael in the real world
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

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    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

  4. #24
    Senior Member evilrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You're misunderstanding me. I don't care about how "nice" the guy is. Originally, he was portrayed as very competent. He was the one in control, manipulating everyone with his elaborate plan. Now he's portrayed as incompetent, weak, manipulated. Hence, I don't like him anymore.

    Regarding his daughter, I don't care that she died. Ben is the one that cared, and he failed.
    When he killed Locke, I didn't care that Locke died. Ben was manipulated into believing that killing Locke was in his best interest.
    You’re saying, then, that you lost respect for Ben? I’d argue that his superior competence in a way is what caused his downfall because it made him overconfident and egocentric. He was overconfident in believing he could call Keemy’s bluff, which resulted in his daughter being shot. His being manipulated to kill Jacob was a result of egocentric belief in his selfless and extraordinary service to the Island—he hated Jacob for snubbing him and not patting him on the back because it undermined his ego. He’s also a fictional character with a story to serve, which means he had to fuck up eventually and turn out to be tragically flawed, especially if they’re setting him up for redemption.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    To be clear, I LOVE the character Locke. He's complicated and nuanced (or was, before he died- now he's a smoke monster). Only a well-drawn character could make me as mad as he does. Jack, on the other hand, I just can't really work up a big feeling about. He is not that well-drawn IMO. I sometimes sympathize with him when he's all WTF GUYS but then he suffers from the same hubris of certainty Locke does when it suits him.

    edit: SAYID FTW!
    From a viewer perspective I like Locke as an enigmatic, complex character. Among other things, I love the ironic contrast between his life on the Island and his previous life. In the former he’s “special”, has a connection with the Island the even Ben Linus envies, yet before he was this invisible nobody. I remember the scene where he tried to tell Boone he used to work for a box company, and Boone was like, “no way.”
    X___________________________________

    If things are not what they seem, and we are forever reminded that this is the case—then it must also be observed that enough of us ignore this truth to keep the world from collapsing. –Thomas Ligotti, The Mystics of Muelenberg

  5. #25
    meat popsicle r.a's Avatar
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    locke is without a doubt my favorite character. in fact he is one of the only characters i can stand. it sucks he was being manipulated the whole time by jacob's ex-homey, but oh well.

    i don't think locke was too self-righteous. i think that title goes to jack, who is a shitty doctor and a smug fuck in general.
    "All authority of any kind, especially in the field of thought and understanding, is destructive and evil. Leaders destroy the followers and the followers destroy the leaders. You have to be your own teacher and your own disciple. You have to question everything that man has accepted as valuable, as necessary."
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    J.Krishnamurti

  6. #26
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I like where the first two eps are going.

    Quite frankly, Lost lost it's awesomeness around the time they started time traveling (and the island became less mysterious.). First few seasons were great. Now it's just about a fute between two entities, and everyone else are just pawns.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #27
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You're misunderstanding me. I don't care about how "nice" the guy is. Originally, he was portrayed as very competent. He was the one in control, manipulating everyone with his elaborate plan. Now he's portrayed as incompetent, weak, manipulated. Hence, I don't like him anymore.
    See, I love it. It's karma! It gives me the warm fuzzies seeing Ben reduced to that. However, I'll be annoyed too, if it lasts much longer. And I'm sure it won't. Either he's going to go back to his usual ways, or he'll redeem himself at the end. As long as the show doesn't end with him being a sniveling victim.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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  8. #28
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  9. #29
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    LOL


    I posted this @ INTPc, it's from the web game back in 2006 and I only saw it recently. Answers (or does it?) about the numbers and Dharma:

    [YOUTUBE="_PPCCcXarkc"]Solve the Equation[/YOUTUBE]

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