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  1. #51
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    People who feel depressed by it don't know human history.

    Think utopia is non existant? what fecking planet do you live on? Why does it take a film with a unrealistic portrayal of colonisation to evoke these sensations?

    I found avatar horrific, because it was no indepth or real portrait of human nature whatsoever.

    The utopian environment/animation however, is kick ass and if you wanna go to pandora, there are plenty of psycho-actives that can help you with that. Problem solved.

    Well shit, I promised myself I'd never talk about this film and now I just did. I'm on the band wagon it appears... feels strange. But i'm not gonna lie- 'strange' doesn't equate with 'bad'.

  2. #52
    Junior Member ProperDave's Avatar
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    lol. I didn't think I'd set off such rage in some people on here.

    Just a heads up for the people that believe utopian societies don't exist - there's many utopian projects in the world already. One of the longest running ones is Auroville* in Southern India.

    * This one was on a documentary earlier in 2009 in the UK because peadophiles have supposedly been seeking refuge in it, as the community has next to no common law, so they can fiddle with kids without repremand.


    Perhaps it's just best we forget this movie ever happened. Thankfully we're only raging about it whilst it's out. In a few months hopfully we'll have forgotten all about it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProperDave View Post
    In a few months hopfully we'll have forgotten all about it.
    *hopes*
    I 65.63% E 34.38%
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  4. #54
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Lol! I was thinking of that exact same reference (I highly recommend that site to anyone who hasn't heard of it).
    That was a great site, btw.
    Bookmarked now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopelandic View Post
    I found avatar horrific, because it was no indepth or real portrait of human nature whatsoever.
    Which raises this question, to help me understand your comments better:
    What would you consider a "real" or "in-depth" portrait of human nature to look like?
    And are you referring to global concepts or specific individuals within the picture?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #55
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    1/ David Brooks is a very smart sociologist (even if he's a conservative one).

    "Avatar is a racial fantasy par excellence."

    "It rests on the stereotype that white people are rationalist and technocratic while colonial victims are spiritual and athletic.

    "It rests on the assumption that non-whites need the White Messiah to lead their crusades. It rests on the assumption that illiteracy is the path to grace.

    "It also creates a sort of two-edged cultural imperialism. Natives can either have their history shaped by cruel imperialists or benevolent ones, but either way, they are going to be supporting actors in our journey to self-admiration"


    So when he writes this, as usual, he's spot on.

    This movie is a total crap. Not only because it is aesthetically questionable, not only because a 8 years old kid could have written a better scenario, and designed more convincing aliens...
    It is a total crap, because it lays entirely on DEMAGOGY. (Demagogy: telling people what they want to hear, not what they need to hear)

    After having seen it, I'm not angry against the public audience who appreciate this crap, but against those who created that elaborate trap. James Cameron is obviously a very smart person. Writing this lousy scenario surely was a deliberate act, because his primary goal was to make money, and nothing else. He wanted to seduce the masses, and to sell his product in the most efficient way he could possibly find.

    I'm angry against Cameron and his team, because "Avatar" flatters the ego of the uneducated audience; because it flatters it in the worst possible way: in making them dumber than they previously were.
    And unfortunately, the subliminal messages are perfectly clear. And I'm sure that James Cameron is aware of them, and must be laughing at how stupid people are, how easy it is to take their money away, and make billion of dollars out of their mediocre existences.

    "There's a sucker born every minute".

    I find the way this product despises human intelligence to be deeply offensive.
    It's not their fault if masses are illiterate and stupid: it always went this way, it's part of the human condition. But to exploit that weakness rather than trying to (temporarily) lessen it is the sign of an incredible cynism.


    $$$$$ Money, money, money, money, money... $$$$$

    ---

    And in the meantime, in less than three weeks, "Avatar" will have generated more revenue than the international funds promised to help Haiti.

    Pure, raw, dirty capitalism.

    Plus the real goal of Cameron is the opposite of the so-called "spiritual message" he is trying to sell to blinded masses.

    Money, money, money, money...

    ---

    2/ Who here has ever read "The Society of the Spectacle", by Guy Debord?

    "The Society of the Spectacle is a critique of contemporary consumer culture and commodity fetishism. Before the term globalization was popularized, Debord was arguing about issues such as class alienation, cultural homogenization, and the mass media.

    When Debord says that, All that was once directly lived has become mere representation, he is referring to central importance of the image in contemporary society. Images, Debord says, have supplanted genuine human interaction.[7]

    Thus, Debords fourth thesis is "The spectacle is not a collection of images; rather, it is a social relationship between people that is mediated by images."[29]

    In a consumer society, social life is not about living but about having; the spectacle uses the image to convey what people need and must have. Consequently, social life moves further, leaving a state of 'having' and proceeding into a state of 'appearing;' namely the appearance of the image.[30]

    "In a world which really is topsy-turvy, the true is a moment of the false." Thesis 9."


    It's exactly that. Remember this: "the true is a moment of the false", and the more you consume images, the less you really live, the more alienated you will eventually feel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    For me it was more that the world that is Pandora pretty much resonates with my own internal world. Mine looks more European, but the flashy lights, the forest being alive, the connection between all living things...spot on. It made me realize that I'd never be able to live as in tune with Earth as they did with Eywa as our society doesn't allow for that. It's focussed on exploiting the Earth, not living in harmony with it, and I am unfortunately part of that system, unable to escape the way of life that it dictates (such as sitting behind a desk 8 hours a day, fast paced life, etc) I'm aware that it aint all peachy to live in a hazardous setting like the jungle of Pandora, but you know what...it would be worth it to me, I think.

    I just felt jealous of the characters in the movie when I left and resentment towards our society.
    3/ Pure escapism.

    I'd say this movie is not a modern tale about ecology and colonialism, but about (crude) escapism in video-games. Video-games references are everywhere with Avatar, its a collection of clichs of this specific genre, of computer industry. The way Na'vis can "wire" themselves through a special data port (fiber-optic bundle?) and force every animal living in Pandora to submit to their will is not accidental.

    ---

    Ecology is very complex. And there is no such a thing as "Harmony", or societies that live "in tune with Mother Nature".

    It's the law of the jungle out there, and men are the parasites. Whether they are parasites that live in large numbers (modern societies), or in small numbers (neolithic societies), they will always remain parasites. It's just their noxiousness that will vary according to their level of development.

    Native Amerindians have also been very, very destructive to their environment. They have genocided countless species, and wiped out countless, thousand and thousand hectares of forest, even if this process took them centuries where the white man now only needs a few decades. Make no illusion about that.
    The same can be said with almost every aboriginal people of the world.

    We have never been expelled out of the Garden of Eden, since there never was such a thing as the Garden of Eden.


    Nevertheless, Earth Ecosystems are far, far more complex and beautiful to observe than what you will ever see in "Avatar".

    First, because they are real. And reality is the true source of all our imagination.
    Second, because there is something to really understand out there.

    For instance, when I spot a wild orchid in a tropical canopy, it's an incredible feeling, light years away that the cheap escapism this pathetic movie will ever provide.

    I know I will never "feel" in harmony with these complex ecosystems, because the fantasy of harmony is only another variant of the traditional fantasy of domination.
    But nevertheless, having the possibility to study and admire them is a blessing. I am an invader and I know it, but wherever there is knowledge, there is beauty too.

    Do you understand that?
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Do you understand that?
    Yes, and of course you are right.

  7. #57
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProperDave View Post
    lol. I didn't think I'd set off such rage in some people on here.

    Just a heads up for the people that believe utopian societies don't exist - there's many utopian projects in the world already. One of the longest running ones is Auroville* in Southern India.
    Oh goodness, these quotes alone...:

    But to live in Auroville, one must be the willing servitor of the Divine Consciousness.
    Some public drinking fountains feature "dynamised" water, which has been "made healthier" by having the water listen to Bach and Mozart.

  8. #58
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Oh goodness, these quotes alone...:
    And I won't mention the architect who designed this city...

    He was one of the most ruthless designer and property developer of brutalist housing estates during the 60es and the 70es; a very cynical man indeed.

    And thanks to his fortune, and after having devastated a few landscapes and having sold thousands of cheap flats to the poorest members of the French society, he eventually bought an historical castle for himself in one of the most touristical area of France (Vaucluse).

    It's not contradiction: the so-called paradise you sell to others, you do not want it for yourself!

    Welcome to the real world.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProperDave View Post
    This is absolutely ludicrous, but there was an article in the free newspaper Metro here in the UK that claims people are becoming depressed from watching Avatar and realising a utopian dream is impossible in this day and age.
    People are realizing this because of a movie? I realized it pretty quick in kindergarten.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProperDave View Post
    Just a heads up for the people that believe utopian societies don't exist - there's many utopian projects in the world already.
    And Canberra is one of them.

    Canberra is the only successfully planned Capital City in the world.

    Canberra is planned from the ground up and successfully realised.

    Canberra is a garden city that is a pleasure to live in.

    And when city planners meet they always ask about the mecca of planned cities, Canberra. "What is it like to live there?", they ask eagerly.

    And here I am sittin in it, pig happy.

    Canberra is a designer city, designed by two architects, Walter Burley Griffin and his wife, Marion.

    Canberra is a city in the Bush where the Bush comes right into the city bringing the life of the Bush from cockatoos to kangaroos.

    And although it is extensive in size, you can drive across it in twenty minutes. No congestion, no peak hours. And a short drive to the coast or the Snowy Mountains.

    Frankly what we see is what we are. And sometimes utopia is under our noses. In fact I am sitting in it right now.

    They say utopia means nowhere but utopia's address is Canberra, Capital of Australia and half of Antarctica.

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