• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Doctor Who

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Who else watches this show? What did you think of The End of Time, Part 1? Are you excited for the new doctor?
 

Colors

The Destroyer
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,276
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
It had a *lot* of nonsensical set up. Like the awkward recap of all the previous storylines with the Ood. And like bringing back the Master. And his new superpowers? Didn't really see how that served the plot at all. The super-hunger, yes, and the stripping away of his charming veneer- but why did he need to super-jump or shoot lightning from his hands?

Also could've saved time on the whole father/daughter evil plan set-up (like who cares, they're meddling humans again, we get it) and the weird Barack Obama worship thing. More time needed to explain exactly how the Master planned to be resurrected/ who was working all this time to bring him back. (Not enough Lucy Saxon before she blew herself up- and she kept the Master's DNA blueprint in her prison lipstick???)

Best parts included all the conversations between the Doctor and Wilf, especially in the coffee shop (interesting empathy from Wilf about dying/growing old), and I enjoyed the smaller moments of Wilf at home (and Sylvia and Donna!) and with his "silver cloak". I really liked the portrayal of the Master and the split second development of his evil plan.* The scenes with him beating out the rhythm of the drums and being confronted by the Doctor was great.

And his evil plan of turning everyone on the planet into him is both hilarious and makes somewhat logic.

*Speculation: Doesn't seem like his evil plan will amount to much of the action in the next episode anyway. Seems like it's going to be more about explaining the drums and how the Master was destined to always resurrect the Time Lords or something? (Similar to how Donna heard the "heartbeat" of the DoctorDonna in The Stolen Planet) I'll be happy with the next episode as long as Donna gets to be plenty awesome.

I'm avoiding spoilers, so I have no clue about whether I should be exciting about the new Doctor. I don't see how people can start worshipping something they haven't seen yet (nor hate it). So I'll be checking it out when it starts again. Wait and see.
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Spamtar, the new Doctor appears later this week. I am glad to get rid of super-emo Tennant.

Jeffster, it's actually quite compelling. You should check it out. If you have netflix, all seasons to date are streaming.

My goodness, Colors - you had the same critiques that I had. I'm not even going to touch on that cult and the lipstick. I was so angry watching that.

I also take the wait and see approach. But the BBC released the first 2 minutes of the next episode already.

Donna is my favorite companion of this new series. I hope they find a way to keep her alive and kicking.

My speculation is that the drumming that is in the Master's head is the same drumming that he heard when he was a little boy looking into the void/vortex thingy, which made him run off and turn bad in the first place. Also, I think the Time Lord thing may just be a flashback that also leads to a plot point that shows how they all hid in the Master's head or some nonsense. Why they waited until now (when he was killed already) to make their appearance, I'll never know. I can't imagine how a whole world of time lords (all chanting the same thing? come on...) would be alive and the Doctor didn't know or sense it. Is the whole planet simply just hiding stupidly to trick the Doctor and have nothing better to do across all of time and space?

The whole food devouring and super power stuff was ridiculous and just gave the Master a reason to overact (deliciously).

I also suspect that the old lady who pinched his bum and face and took a picture with him will be instrumental somehow. They really featured her quite a bit and I can't imagine that was only added for comic relief. They made a point of her touching his skin (collecting DNA, maybe?)

And those green cactus people - that machine... Good lord, why has this never been talked about before? A machine that restores entire planets? A machine that requires only one sample in order to work properly, thus making an entire planet of the same person? A machine that the Master can program so quickly in the 5 minutes while the green people are downstairs and make it work better than the actual green people do?

I was also wondering if that lady in the church/tv that kept talking to Wilf was a time lord.

Did you find the whole father/daughter thing to be creepy? There was this sexual or around them that just grossed me out. The daughter was always panting. Ick.

But overall, I did like the episode. I loved Wilf and the showdown scenes with the Master. Excited to see the new year's episode.
 

Jeffster

veteran attention whore
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
6,743
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx
Jeffster, it's actually quite compelling. You should check it out.

Oh, I have. I didn't refuse to watch it. I've even liked some of it. "Blink" and "Fear Her" are a couple of my favorites - both compelling television. Very well-done.

It's just not Doctor Who to me. It's a new show about an action hero guy who falls in love with his companions, has lots of gadgets appear out of nowhere, can carry planets around the universe with his ship and gains magical powers when a bunch of people say his name at the same time. It's not a bad show, but the original Doctor Who was a very different animal. It was about a scientist who often didn't know what he was doing, and had to use his brain to get him out of tough situations. He cared about the people he traveled with but he wasn't french kissing them, and often created gadgets but they took time, didn't always work, and weren't able to do everything he wanted them to do at the time. There was no "psychic paper" - he had to get himself into places the old-fashioned way, by being clever and imaginative.

In short, the new series is sort of a dumbed-down and ramped-up super-colossal movie-like remake of Doctor Who. Possibly some original Star Trek fans felt the same way about The Next Generation. It's enjoyable to me some of the time if I don't think of it as Doctor Who, but sort of a mini action movie that uses some of the same character and villain names. It can still be fun that way, but it can also be very cringe-worthy in some moments. And I never have to see it right away. I eventually got around to watching the rest of the 4th season episodes (through "Journey's End) so I will probably eventually get to watching the specials that have come out since then. I'm just not in any hurry. ;)
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Jeffster, you hit the nail on the head. I have the same problems with how much he actually knows all the time. It's annoying actually. But I still do like the new series.

I really liked the "Blink" episode and the "Waters of Mars" special.

With this new season, there is a new person in control... incidentally, it's the guy who wrote the "Blink" episode.
 

Verfremdungseffekt

videodrones; questions
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
866
MBTI Type
INTp
Enneagram
5w4
Something that didn't strike me until the second time through is how the "Being John Simm" ending mirrors the Master's problem through the first half of the episode, where he can't show his face anywhere because he still looks like the former Prime Minster.

That's something about Russel T Davies' scripts in particular is that they lend themselves to multiple viewings in a way the show rarely has.

The classic series tends to be fairly straightforward pulp, with the occasional neat sci-fi idea (rarely after 1970) or clever dialog (especially when Douglas Adams was around), and maybe the odd political allegory (mostly Mac Hulke's stuff during the Pertwee years). In the last couple of years there was a bit of character development, with Ace and McCoy's darkening Doctor. Basically, the classic series was all about plot. And the plotting was always fairly mechanical.

In the new series, plot sulks way in the rear of the station wagon, with theme behind the wheel, character development on navigation, and dialog playing traveling games in the back seat. Several stories, like the series three finale, make no sense on a plot level, yet taken strictly for their themes are a pretty powerful deconstruction of the myth of Doctor Who.

And that's what makes the new series so good -- the way it breaks down the conceptual core of the show; what it means on a human level as a piece of television. The new series is almost more about Doctor Who than it is content to simply be Doctor Who. The times when it fails, that I can see, is when it stops picking away and settles for just telling a story. See every Mark Gatiss and Gareth Roberts script.

Steven Moffat is every bit as good as Davies, though his focus is more on structure and the logistics of the show's setup. Especially time travel -- which, bizarrely, the classic series almost never dealt with. The only role that time and space travel really played before 2005 was as an excuse to set the show somewhere different every four weeks. Going by some things that Moffat has said, and on the basis of his past episodes, it looks like from 2010, Doctor Who is actually going to be a show about time travel. Which is neat!

Granted, the new series often takes way too many shortcuts on its rush to the end. Handwavey solutions to complex problems, and, as grumbled about above, the Doctor knowing too damned much. There was a time when he had to figure things out every now and then.

So. Yeah.

First viewing, I really didn't know what to make of End of Time. Second viewing, I quite liked it -- despite some bits that really made no sense. And the second part looks really interesting.

YouTube - Doctor Who The End of Time - Part 2 - Exclusive Scene.

I'm guessing the only important things in the first episode, really, are the assembly of the Master and Wilf. The "Master Race" thing will be defused fairly early on, the Master will become an ally of sorts, and the story will veer sharply off in the direction it really means to.

This episode served, I think, to establish the character issues that will play out in the second part. The Master is bonkers and dangerous beyond belief, but he used to be the Doctor's best friend. How will these forces balance out when there's somethin g larger at stake? Wilf loves the Doctor, but he loves Donna more, and he's keeping secrets from both of them.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Wilf will be instrumental in the Doctor's regeneration. He's carrying around Chekhov's service revolver, and the lady in the TV made a big deal about his never having killed a man.

There isn't really any plot in the episode; what there is is nonsense. That's okay. Most of the best stories ever told have no plot.
 
Last edited:

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Good analysis, Aderack. Especially about Wilf possibly having to shoot the Doctor. I also feel like an alliance between the Master and the Doctor is inevitable.

I am a fan of Moffat's compelling and engaging writing, as well. I love the stories that deal with the repercussions of time travel and look forward to seeing more of that.

And this mysterious River Song... I hope her story line is good. I'm guessing that she and the Doctor were married or something like that.
 

Verfremdungseffekt

videodrones; questions
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
866
MBTI Type
INTp
Enneagram
5w4
Hey! This is the Internet, so.

I recently sifted through all of Tom Baker's serials to figure out how many I actually enjoy. That expanded to cover all of the classic series, and that in turn morphed into a sort of top-five list, per Doctor. For McGann, I count his audio adventures. Since, hey. The comics are better, but they're not performed drama.

Hartnell
The Massacre
The Myth Makers
The Time Meddler
The Daleks' Master Plan
An Unearthly Child

Troughton
The War Games
The Tomb of the Cybermen
The Evil of the Daleks
The Enemy of the World
The Mind Robber

Pertwee
The Silurians
Inferno
The Sea Devils
The Time Monster
Invasion of the Dinosaurs

Tom Baker
Logopolis
The Deadly Assassin
Horror of Fang Rock
City of Death
The Keeper of Traken

Davison
Arc of Infinity
Time-Flight
Enlightenment
Castrovalva
Mawdryn Undead

Colin Baker
Terror of the Vervoids
The Mark of the Rani
The Ultimate Foe
Timelash
The Mysterious Planet

McCoy
Ghost Light
Battlefield
Silver Nemesis
Survival
Delta and the Bannermen

McGann
Scherzo
The Natural History of Fear
Caerdroia
Seasons of Fear
Memory Lane

Eccleston
Boom Town
Bad Wolf / Parting of the Ways
The Long Game
The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
The End of the World

Tennant
The Waters of Mars
Midnight
Blink
Turn Left / The Stolen Earth / Journey's End
Gridlock
 

Robert165

New member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
257
MBTI Type
ENFJ
i really dont know what i think of the end of time
i'm going to miss david tenant.....
 

PuddleRiver

It's always something...
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
2,923
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w6
i really dont know what i think of the end of time
i'm going to miss david tenant.....

:yes: Me too, Tennant has been my favorite so far. But then, I hate change. Well, this change anyway. I miss Rose too.
 

CrystalViolet

lab rat extraordinaire
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
2,152
MBTI Type
XNFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
How did I not see this?
Hmmm, I glad Steven Moffat is taking over Russell T. Davis's position. Don't get me wrong, Russell did a great job resurrecting Dr Who, but Steven Moffat's episodes absolutely stood out. I will miss Tennat, but I'm going to give Matt Smith a chance.
I'm currently working through Tom Baker's esisodes ATM.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I was quite into it until last season, iunno, it kinda got old =/ hopefully it gets better with a new doctor.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
my man is still busy missing the 9th doctor and we're almost done watching the 4th season! (he liked his sense of humor better, plus, he knew him from a few movies!)

had a friend come in the other day while we were watching the end of the 3rd season and he was shocked- this was NOT like the Dr Who he'd grown up with- this guy was more action-y and more attuned to humanity- and he didn't have a scarf :)

I'm not so sure about the new doctor... the previews look kind of dramatic :dry: I do admit to liking the 9th doctor better as well... oh well, I guess I'll just wait and see!
 

jenocyde

half mystic, half skeksis
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
6,387
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Yeah, I am a bigger fan of the 9th doctor, too. I really hated Tennant - especially his bleeding heart that ends up getting everyone killed, except for him of course. I liked it better when the doctor was a prototypical ENTP stereotype. I feel that Tennant's doctor was ENFP running in Fi overload. I just couldn't understand him or the choices he made. Of course, half of this was in the writing, but man, if I hear "I'm sorry, I am so so sorry" one more time before someone is about to die...

The End of Time part 2 made me really angry, but it was cute to see the new doctor introduced. He seems playful and I am ready for a breath of fresh air.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
20,589
Enneagram
827
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I always got the slight feel that the 9th doctor was genuinely more excited about new and different things- and I liked the practicality as well (though the end of The Doctor Dances made me smile- everyone lived!)

Def more of an ENTP character though, so I probably have some bias there :)
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Didn't mind Tennant in his first season as doctor but could have done without all the romance stuff, Eccleston was more fun, less emo imo.
 

briochick

half-nut member
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
633
MBTI Type
eNFP
Enneagram
;)
Instinctual Variant
sx
I adored the 9th Doctor, though I think that Tennant is a pretty ace actor. I thought it was rather sad, though, that the 10th Doctor never seemed to have a good day.
 
Top