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  1. #1
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Default Doctor Who

    Who else watches this show? What did you think of The End of Time, Part 1? Are you excited for the new doctor?

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    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Who else watches this show?
    I watch the classic series.

    What did you think of The End of Time, Part 1?
    Haven't seen it.

    Are you excited for the new doctor?
    No.
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    Ghost Monkey Soul Vizconde's Avatar
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    I haven't seen the new doctor. How is he?
    I redact everything I have written or will write on this forum prior to, subsequent with and or after the fact of its writing. For entertainment purposes only and not to be taken seriously nor literally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Spamtar - a strange combination of boorish drunkeness and erudite discussions, or what I call "an Irish academic"

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    The Destroyer Colors's Avatar
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    It had a *lot* of nonsensical set up. Like the awkward recap of all the previous storylines with the Ood. And like bringing back the Master. And his new superpowers? Didn't really see how that served the plot at all. The super-hunger, yes, and the stripping away of his charming veneer- but why did he need to super-jump or shoot lightning from his hands?

    Also could've saved time on the whole father/daughter evil plan set-up (like who cares, they're meddling humans again, we get it) and the weird Barack Obama worship thing. More time needed to explain exactly how the Master planned to be resurrected/ who was working all this time to bring him back. (Not enough Lucy Saxon before she blew herself up- and she kept the Master's DNA blueprint in her prison lipstick???)

    Best parts included all the conversations between the Doctor and Wilf, especially in the coffee shop (interesting empathy from Wilf about dying/growing old), and I enjoyed the smaller moments of Wilf at home (and Sylvia and Donna!) and with his "silver cloak". I really liked the portrayal of the Master and the split second development of his evil plan.* The scenes with him beating out the rhythm of the drums and being confronted by the Doctor was great.

    And his evil plan of turning everyone on the planet into him is both hilarious and makes somewhat logic.

    *Speculation: Doesn't seem like his evil plan will amount to much of the action in the next episode anyway. Seems like it's going to be more about explaining the drums and how the Master was destined to always resurrect the Time Lords or something? (Similar to how Donna heard the "heartbeat" of the DoctorDonna in The Stolen Planet) I'll be happy with the next episode as long as Donna gets to be plenty awesome.

    I'm avoiding spoilers, so I have no clue about whether I should be exciting about the new Doctor. I don't see how people can start worshipping something they haven't seen yet (nor hate it). So I'll be checking it out when it starts again. Wait and see.

  5. #5
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Spamtar, the new Doctor appears later this week. I am glad to get rid of super-emo Tennant.

    Jeffster, it's actually quite compelling. You should check it out. If you have netflix, all seasons to date are streaming.

    My goodness, Colors - you had the same critiques that I had. I'm not even going to touch on that cult and the lipstick. I was so angry watching that.

    I also take the wait and see approach. But the BBC released the first 2 minutes of the next episode already.

    Donna is my favorite companion of this new series. I hope they find a way to keep her alive and kicking.

    My speculation is that the drumming that is in the Master's head is the same drumming that he heard when he was a little boy looking into the void/vortex thingy, which made him run off and turn bad in the first place. Also, I think the Time Lord thing may just be a flashback that also leads to a plot point that shows how they all hid in the Master's head or some nonsense. Why they waited until now (when he was killed already) to make their appearance, I'll never know. I can't imagine how a whole world of time lords (all chanting the same thing? come on...) would be alive and the Doctor didn't know or sense it. Is the whole planet simply just hiding stupidly to trick the Doctor and have nothing better to do across all of time and space?

    The whole food devouring and super power stuff was ridiculous and just gave the Master a reason to overact (deliciously).

    I also suspect that the old lady who pinched his bum and face and took a picture with him will be instrumental somehow. They really featured her quite a bit and I can't imagine that was only added for comic relief. They made a point of her touching his skin (collecting DNA, maybe?)

    And those green cactus people - that machine... Good lord, why has this never been talked about before? A machine that restores entire planets? A machine that requires only one sample in order to work properly, thus making an entire planet of the same person? A machine that the Master can program so quickly in the 5 minutes while the green people are downstairs and make it work better than the actual green people do?

    I was also wondering if that lady in the church/tv that kept talking to Wilf was a time lord.

    Did you find the whole father/daughter thing to be creepy? There was this sexual or around them that just grossed me out. The daughter was always panting. Ick.

    But overall, I did like the episode. I loved Wilf and the showdown scenes with the Master. Excited to see the new year's episode.

  6. #6
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Jeffster, it's actually quite compelling. You should check it out.
    Oh, I have. I didn't refuse to watch it. I've even liked some of it. "Blink" and "Fear Her" are a couple of my favorites - both compelling television. Very well-done.

    It's just not Doctor Who to me. It's a new show about an action hero guy who falls in love with his companions, has lots of gadgets appear out of nowhere, can carry planets around the universe with his ship and gains magical powers when a bunch of people say his name at the same time. It's not a bad show, but the original Doctor Who was a very different animal. It was about a scientist who often didn't know what he was doing, and had to use his brain to get him out of tough situations. He cared about the people he traveled with but he wasn't french kissing them, and often created gadgets but they took time, didn't always work, and weren't able to do everything he wanted them to do at the time. There was no "psychic paper" - he had to get himself into places the old-fashioned way, by being clever and imaginative.

    In short, the new series is sort of a dumbed-down and ramped-up super-colossal movie-like remake of Doctor Who. Possibly some original Star Trek fans felt the same way about The Next Generation. It's enjoyable to me some of the time if I don't think of it as Doctor Who, but sort of a mini action movie that uses some of the same character and villain names. It can still be fun that way, but it can also be very cringe-worthy in some moments. And I never have to see it right away. I eventually got around to watching the rest of the 4th season episodes (through "Journey's End) so I will probably eventually get to watching the specials that have come out since then. I'm just not in any hurry.
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    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Jeffster, you hit the nail on the head. I have the same problems with how much he actually knows all the time. It's annoying actually. But I still do like the new series.

    I really liked the "Blink" episode and the "Waters of Mars" special.

    With this new season, there is a new person in control... incidentally, it's the guy who wrote the "Blink" episode.

  8. #8
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Something that didn't strike me until the second time through is how the "Being John Simm" ending mirrors the Master's problem through the first half of the episode, where he can't show his face anywhere because he still looks like the former Prime Minster.

    That's something about Russel T Davies' scripts in particular is that they lend themselves to multiple viewings in a way the show rarely has.

    The classic series tends to be fairly straightforward pulp, with the occasional neat sci-fi idea (rarely after 1970) or clever dialog (especially when Douglas Adams was around), and maybe the odd political allegory (mostly Mac Hulke's stuff during the Pertwee years). In the last couple of years there was a bit of character development, with Ace and McCoy's darkening Doctor. Basically, the classic series was all about plot. And the plotting was always fairly mechanical.

    In the new series, plot sulks way in the rear of the station wagon, with theme behind the wheel, character development on navigation, and dialog playing traveling games in the back seat. Several stories, like the series three finale, make no sense on a plot level, yet taken strictly for their themes are a pretty powerful deconstruction of the myth of Doctor Who.

    And that's what makes the new series so good -- the way it breaks down the conceptual core of the show; what it means on a human level as a piece of television. The new series is almost more about Doctor Who than it is content to simply be Doctor Who. The times when it fails, that I can see, is when it stops picking away and settles for just telling a story. See every Mark Gatiss and Gareth Roberts script.

    Steven Moffat is every bit as good as Davies, though his focus is more on structure and the logistics of the show's setup. Especially time travel -- which, bizarrely, the classic series almost never dealt with. The only role that time and space travel really played before 2005 was as an excuse to set the show somewhere different every four weeks. Going by some things that Moffat has said, and on the basis of his past episodes, it looks like from 2010, Doctor Who is actually going to be a show about time travel. Which is neat!

    Granted, the new series often takes way too many shortcuts on its rush to the end. Handwavey solutions to complex problems, and, as grumbled about above, the Doctor knowing too damned much. There was a time when he had to figure things out every now and then.

    So. Yeah.

    First viewing, I really didn't know what to make of End of Time. Second viewing, I quite liked it -- despite some bits that really made no sense. And the second part looks really interesting.

    YouTube - Doctor Who The End of Time - Part 2 - Exclusive Scene.

    I'm guessing the only important things in the first episode, really, are the assembly of the Master and Wilf. The "Master Race" thing will be defused fairly early on, the Master will become an ally of sorts, and the story will veer sharply off in the direction it really means to.

    This episode served, I think, to establish the character issues that will play out in the second part. The Master is bonkers and dangerous beyond belief, but he used to be the Doctor's best friend. How will these forces balance out when there's somethin g larger at stake? Wilf loves the Doctor, but he loves Donna more, and he's keeping secrets from both of them.

    The more I think about it, the more I think that Wilf will be instrumental in the Doctor's regeneration. He's carrying around Chekhov's service revolver, and the lady in the TV made a big deal about his never having killed a man.

    There isn't really any plot in the episode; what there is is nonsense. That's okay. Most of the best stories ever told have no plot.
    Last edited by Verfremdungseffekt; 12-29-2009 at 09:45 PM.

  9. #9
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Good analysis, Aderack. Especially about Wilf possibly having to shoot the Doctor. I also feel like an alliance between the Master and the Doctor is inevitable.

    I am a fan of Moffat's compelling and engaging writing, as well. I love the stories that deal with the repercussions of time travel and look forward to seeing more of that.

    And this mysterious River Song... I hope her story line is good. I'm guessing that she and the Doctor were married or something like that.

  10. #10
    videodrones; questions Verfremdungseffekt's Avatar
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    Hey! This is the Internet, so.

    I recently sifted through all of Tom Baker's serials to figure out how many I actually enjoy. That expanded to cover all of the classic series, and that in turn morphed into a sort of top-five list, per Doctor. For McGann, I count his audio adventures. Since, hey. The comics are better, but they're not performed drama.

    Hartnell
    The Massacre
    The Myth Makers
    The Time Meddler
    The Daleks' Master Plan
    An Unearthly Child

    Troughton
    The War Games
    The Tomb of the Cybermen
    The Evil of the Daleks
    The Enemy of the World
    The Mind Robber

    Pertwee
    The Silurians
    Inferno
    The Sea Devils
    The Time Monster
    Invasion of the Dinosaurs

    Tom Baker
    Logopolis
    The Deadly Assassin
    Horror of Fang Rock
    City of Death
    The Keeper of Traken

    Davison
    Arc of Infinity
    Time-Flight
    Enlightenment
    Castrovalva
    Mawdryn Undead

    Colin Baker
    Terror of the Vervoids
    The Mark of the Rani
    The Ultimate Foe
    Timelash
    The Mysterious Planet

    McCoy
    Ghost Light
    Battlefield
    Silver Nemesis
    Survival
    Delta and the Bannermen

    McGann
    Scherzo
    The Natural History of Fear
    Caerdroia
    Seasons of Fear
    Memory Lane

    Eccleston
    Boom Town
    Bad Wolf / Parting of the Ways
    The Long Game
    The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances
    The End of the World

    Tennant
    The Waters of Mars
    Midnight
    Blink
    Turn Left / The Stolen Earth / Journey's End
    Gridlock

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