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  1. #41
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayoitsStepho View Post
    Whatever happened to liking music because it makes you happy and you're able to relate with it?
    That's my point. If you're making music that a lot of people feel an emotional connection to, that they can identify with and find meaning in, then you're making good music.

    You can make up arbitrary standards for what constitutes "creativity" or "good music" all you want, but they're still meaningless.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #42
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    I have a hard time believing that they are underrated. They had several singles on the radio, music videos on MTV and have strong followers.

    I only listened to the first album and went to one of their concerts. A lot of their lyrics are cheesy. Their quirkiness makes them stand out in the sea of emo music. I always saw them as a novelty band. It was cool at first, but I got tired of them pretty quickly.

    Musical they sound messy. Half of the time I don't know what is going on. I love all the instruments they use as well, but they don't need to use them all in every song. I felt like they were trying too hard to impress.

  3. #43
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    lol let me guess, you listen to Dream Theater?

    A lot of INTPs have this bone-stupid pretentious "IT'S NOT GOOD UNLESS I SAY SO" attitude about music and it's retarded.

    Hint for INTP musicians: Nobody gives a fuck how many notes you can cram into that measure. Being able to play every Danny Carey part does not make you a good drummer; being able to play a part that's tasteful and appropriate to the feel of the song does. People want to hear cohesive songs that produce an emotional response. You don't make "good music" by going so far outside the box that you reinvent every single piece of the entire thing--nobody wants to hear your 22-minute prog epic!

    You make good music by taking the same established pieces and rearranging them into a new combination that people find compelling. Panic at the Disco (they dropped the exclamation point from their name) is doing this exceptionally well, especially for their young age.

    I know, I know--they'll revoke your musical elitist license if you admit that any "pop" band is good, but trust me...if you think pop music is inherently bad/automatically unoriginal/stupid because it sells a lot of records and a lot of people like it, you don't know the first thing about making music.

    It's not about you; it's about the audience. Try and consider that for a bit before you mouth off about how any band that doesn't play harmonized 64th note Mixolydian dueling solos over alternating time signatures and show off their chops at every possible opportunity is "totally unoriginal!" Chances are you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and that your playing stinks of tasteless wankery.

    If pop music is so easy and requires so little creativity, why aren't you a pop star yet?

    You know, I agree with all of this, but I STILL really hate Panic! at the Disco.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #44
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    That's my point. If you're making music that a lot of people feel an emotional connection to, that they can identify with and find meaning in, then you're making good music.
    I totally DISAGREE with this. You can go on YouTube and read comments from people about how Nickelback really speak to them. People fall in love with bad music every day.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #45
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I totally DISAGREE with this. You can go on YouTube and read comments from people about how Nickelback really speak to them. People fall in love with bad music every day.
    Do tell, then, how you define good music. If you don't like Nickelback, fair enough--I'm not a particularly big fan either...but you don't have any grounds on which to declare that they're bad.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I totally DISAGREE with this. You can go on YouTube and read comments from people about how Nickelback really speak to them. People fall in love with bad music every day.
    Oh come on. Nickelback is one of the better mainstream bands.

  7. #47
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinebrighter View Post
    Oh come on. Nickelback is one of the better mainstream bands.
    See, Merc? There's no consensus on this.

    I think numerous factors need to be taken into account, including but not limited to:

    --The standards of that artist's genre
    --What goal the artist had in creating the music
    --How the music compares to that of other artists producing similar music in a similar style during the same time period
    --How the work compares to that artist's previous works (does it show progression and development?)
    --What kind of new combinations of components (note that I'm not saying "new components", because there aren't any) the work contributed (but note that this one only matters if those new combinations actually create sounds that people find pleasing to hear! Being different doesn't accomplish anything if nobody thinks it sounds good.)
    --What cultural and artistic impact the music had at the time and how it may have influenced future music

    That's a good starting point. You can't really decide whether an artist has succeeded until you define what that artist's goal was in the first place.

    Nickelback's goal is evidently to create simple, catchy and mass marketable hard rock songs that a lot of people will be able to enjoy--and in that regard they're a fantastic band.

    Granted, they may not be as innovative as other bands, but in simple economic terms they're obviously doing something right or they wouldn't be making millions in record/merch/ticket sales every year.

    Whatever it is in your mind that causes you to define Nickelback as "bad music" is based on some arbitrary personal criteria on your part which can't really be used to objectively measure anything.

    "I don't enjoy it" =/= "It's bad"
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Granted, they may not be as innovative as other bands, but in simple economic terms they're obviously doing something right or they wouldn't be making millions in record/merch/ticket sales every year.
    That's really only thing bad about Nickelback. Everything they make seem safe and salable. Heck they are trying to market to both gender. Half of their stuff are love songs for women and the other half are rock songs that tries to make them look like bad asses for the men.

    This makes them into both a good and bad band, but they are better then the most of the crap playing on the radio.

  9. #49
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshinebrighter View Post
    That's really only thing bad about Nickelback. Everything they make seem safe and salable. Heck they are trying to market to both gender. Half of their stuff are love songs for women and the other half are rock songs that tries to make them look like bad asses for the men.

    This makes them into a good and bad band, but they are better then the most of the crap playing on the radio.
    Why is safe and salable bad? Most people prefer music that fits a certain kind of mold, because that's what they enjoy. That doesn't make them stupid or bad people.

    The fact is, every commercially successful artist is doing something original or otherwise innovative, whether or not you're perceptive enough to figure out what it is--otherwise they wouldn't be commercially successful. They'd be one of the 10 million mediocre unsigned bands out there that nobody listens to because there really is nothing interesting about them.

    The key is to balance artistry with marketability. Too far in one direction and you don't have any fans because you're too out there for anyone to get into it, but too far to the other and you blend in and sound too generic for anyone to notice. It's all a question of balance.

    xNxP musicians tend to err toward the side of "really out there" (Ne) without putting much emphasis at all on marketability, and they tend to label anything that doesn't fit their arbitrary, narrow conception of "good music" (Ti/Fi) as automatically bad. They identify themselves as "good" because they see themselves as really original, and they figure that since originality is the only value that matters, anyone who listens to so-called "unoriginal" music is wrong and stupid for not liking their "original" material.

    Trust me; I did this for a long time and then I finally realized the problem was with me, not with the audience.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Why is safe and salable bad? Most people prefer music that fits a certain kind of mold, because that's what they enjoy. That doesn't make them stupid or bad people.
    Safe and salable usually equal to mediocre music. It tries to annoy the least amount of people. This is a little hard to explain, but this type of music don't excel in any one genre. It tries to cram a little bit of every type of music to attract every type of music fan. Then it comes out tasting bland.

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