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  1. #31
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I took issue with this statement:



    because you began responding to this thread by laughing at me and claiming that I needed to listen to "real" music, because otherwise in your mind I wouldn't like Panic! at the Disco.

    The only way you could possibly be MOAR pretentious is if you were Jack Black's character in High Fidelity.
    i allso sayed this:

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i can understand if some people who like what they say, like the emo sound and doesent look music in so critical way likes it.
    i guess your just not that critical when it comes to music as i am and you like the sound of good musicians allso.

    never seen high fidelity
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i allso sayed this:



    i guess your just not that critical when it comes to music as i am and you like the sound of good musicians allso.

    never seen high fidelity
    I tend to judge music based upon what I honestly respond to - I go with what I feel, especially if it gives me an intense emotional experience.

    High Fidelity is okay,I'm not necessarily recommending you watch it. BUT you don't know what you're missing if you haven't heard The Mars Volta. You might actually enjoy them based upon what you said.

  3. #33
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I tend to judge music based upon what I honestly respond to - I go with what I feel, especially if it gives me an intense emotional experience.
    exactly. and i judge music on more broader understanding, this is why i dont personally like meny bands. and i can judge music from objective point of view, this is why i might think that some music is good, even tho i dont personally like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    High Fidelity is okay,I'm not necessarily recommending you. BUT you don't know what you're missing if you haven't heard The Mars Volta. You might actually enjoy them based upon what you said.
    guess i need to watch high fidelity sometime , its one of my mates favourite movies, so i can borrow it from him.

    need to listen mars volta more when im in the mood for that type of music. i dont like the singers voice that much and thats a big turn off for me, but maybe id get used to it if id listen it more
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    exactly. and i judge music on more broader understanding, this is why i dont personally like meny bands. and i can judge music from objective point of view, this is why i might think that some music is good, even tho i dont personally like it.
    Your point of view isn't that objective, because you claimed you don't like some very talented artists. You still have subjective taste. I listened to the song you posted in the song/mood thread, and honestly, while I appreciated the musical quality to a degree, I really didn't see what was so great about that song - so don't go patting yourself on the back too much with your "broader view."

    I, too, can recognize a band with talent that I don't necessarily like. That's why I don't go around making categorical statements like "pop music isn't real music."


    guess i need to watch high fidelity sometime , its one of my mates favourite movies, so i can borrow it from him.
    Yeah, you know, whatever. At the very least you'd get the Jack Black reference.

    need to listen mars volta more when im in the mood for that type of music. i dont like the singers voice that much and thats a big turn off for me, but maybe id get used to it if id listen it more
    There you go being subjective again.

  5. #35
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    i didnt say im 100% objective when it comes to personal preferences on music, told i am able to look music from objective point of view. usually i first listen to music from objective point of view, then discard if it doesent work, if it passes, i start to look it from subjective point of view and if it passes that too, i like the music. sometimes if music seems to offer much for me i might ignore the objective point of view at start, but then i get bored to it very fast if i see that it doesent offer it all.

    my favourite bands are the ones that just sounded desent at start, if something sounds good at start, im 95% sure that im not going to like it for very long since the stuff i like on it is more shallow than deep.

    i searched google for high fidelity and found out that i have seen it

    i think i get the referance to him. all i got to say for this is that you dont need to be able to make good music and be ultra talented to know what good music is about
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i didnt say im 100% objective when it comes to personal preferences on music, told i am able to look music from objective point of view. usually i first listen to music from objective point of view, then discard if it doesent work, if it passes, i start to look it from subjective point of view and if it passes that too, i like the music. sometimes if music seems to offer much for me i might ignore the objective point of view at start, but then i get bored to it very fast if i see that it doesent offer it all.

    my favourite bands are the ones that just sounded desent at start, if something sounds good at start, im 95% sure that im not going to like it for very long since the stuff i like on it is more shallow than deep.

    i searched google for high fidelity and found out that i have seen it

    i think i get the referance to him. all i got to say for this is that you dont need to be able to make good music and be ultra talented to know what good music is about

    I'm not clear on what you mean with the last sentence, whether you're insulting me, but that may just be a language barrier. All I've got to say is that I took some form of music lessons for half of my childhood, and while I don't especially like rap music I've been told by someone who loves rap that I have "a good ear for rap." So...if I hate rap, but I have a good ear for it, I'm going to assume that means I have a tiny idea of what good music is about. Perhaps not in the highly structured, pedantic sense that you imply, but in a certain way all the same. It's the reason why I recognize that more people who consider themselves "music snobs" are more likely to respond to PJ Harvey as being "good" as opposed to Big Country, which is merely an emotional preference of mine.

    However, as a way of making peace, I leave you with this:

    [YOUTUBE="CrCQbrFCQ1I"]PJ Harvey - White Chalk (Live)[/YOUTUBE]

  7. #37
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    its the language barrier i think. didnt that jack blacks role character try to make it on music business, but sucked, so he just kept the record store or something like that? or do i remember it totally wrong(was long time ago)?

    now i gotta sleep so cant reply more, its 4:30 am allready.

    good night
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    its the language barrier i think. didnt that jack blacks role character try to make it on music business, but sucked, so he just kept the record store or something like that? or do i remember it totally wrong(was long time ago)?

    now i gotta sleep so cant reply more, its 4:30 am allready.

    good night
    In High Fidelity Jack Black played a jerk who thought he knew everything about music.

  9. #39
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i found atleast the first record full from youtube, record companies havent removed what people uploaded from european server. I listened few songs and still think the same, its all the same as other pop rock bands like this. Hits ongs were much worse than what i listened from youtube, but still pretty much the same. all songs sound like straight copies of other pop rock bands with little own thing added. imo adding small own things like this to something that people have done too much allready isnt original music.
    No, they don't all sound like straight copies of other pop rock bands. You just don't know enough about the production of pop rock to know the difference. They're not unoriginal; you're uneducated.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    is that A Fever You Can't Sweat Out some collection of theyr songs? i listened to it and it sounded like totally different songs put together badly(if it was supposed to be one song).
    Umm no it's an album. It's not supposed to be one song.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    what comes to those other bands/artists, they got nothing to do with this imo. i bet your just looking for different things from music than me and thats why panic at the disco is enough for you. personally i need it all perfect, or atleast near perfect. pj harvey is great, those others i dont really like, but im not saying theyr not talented.
    It's totally up to you what you like and don't like, but it's a mistake to declare that things you don't like are bad just because you don't like them.

    By the way, you can cut the condescending crap about how PATD is "enough for me", as if I don't listen to anything or appreciate anything in music beyond simple pop rock. I resent your ignorant implication that pop rock is "all I need" because I'm some kind of simpleton incapable of appreciating anything more complex. I derive most of my living from playing and teaching music in a variety of styles, so take your idiotic assumption and shove it.

    I don't just listen to pop rock. I listen to a lot of different music from a variety of genres and I studied jazz bass in college, so no, I don't listen to just pop rock because it's "enough for me"--I'm just capable of judging music in context and not declaring it "bad" because it's not what I'm used to.



    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    nah i dont listen to dream teather, theyr talented, but i just dont like theyr music.

    im not just into play meny notes thats hard to play together and do it fast music. theres so much more in music than just that. its as much how you play it than what you play when it comes to talented musicians. when your talented you dont have to play hardest stuff that you possibly can, you can play simple song, but the how you play it(right vibrato, how you change to next note, with other instruments in the band etc.) shows the talent.
    Then what exactly is it that makes PATD bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    what people do in studio doesent show much of a talent, you need to be able to really play the music and that means you need to be able to play it live and play it as well live as you do it in studio.
    This is outrageously, hilariously, extraordinarily wrong. The fact that you'd even suggests this indicates a complete lack of comprehension of the process of creating, recording and performing music. What a fucking joke!

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    live jamming/soloing is great thing to show musical talent, because you need to be able to go with the music totally different than with writing music on paper for hours and then finishing it for days. musical talent is really much about being able to do your own thing well allso, because good musical imagination is what good artist needs.
    Who the hell writes music on paper anymore? I'd do yourself a favor and quit talking out your ass, because it's obvious to any actual musicians that may happen to be reading this thread that you're entirely uninformed on the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    what comes to original music, its not original if you do what others do and add something own in it.


    Ok seriously, I would just quit while you're only somewhat behind before you completely destroy yourself. 100% of music, yes ALL music, comes from recombining the same pieces into a different combination--there is no completely original idea. Every melody, every chord progression, every time signature has been used and reused to death hundreds of times. John Lennon, widely regarded as one of the best songwriters of all time, declared that you write a song by taking a song you like and then changing the pieces of it. I guess John Lennon wasn't very original, by your standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    you can do something way out of the box, that doesent mean that you will be good, thats just originality, and originality doesent mean enything unless you do it good. allso when people make music that others have done before them and basicly copying theyr sound(even if they add something own in them) it sounds hollow since they dont have the creative understanding to the music that they make(that comes thru musical imagination), in other words its missing the soul of the music. im not saying music needs to be 100% original, but it needs to come from your own imagination and if your imagination only contains something that you have heard with little added to it, thats a poor imagination.
    If you think PATD sounds exactly like every other pop rock band, you don't listen to pop rock and don't have the tools to evaluate it properly in context. The imagination comes mostly in the studio arrangement, about which I'm 100% positive based on your profoundly ignorant postings here that you know absolutely nothing about.


    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    never told all pop music is bad, but i do think most of it is, because bad music sells if they offer some feeling that some kid wants.
    Most pop music is bad because it sells well? Strike twelve!

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    funny thing about pop music is that really often the artist doesent even write or mix his/hers own music, this creates kind of a boundarie inside the music and makes it sound soulless(since the artist doesent have the real musical understanding on what hes singing or playing, so hes basicly just copying the song writer)
    More inaccurate, ignorant and unsubstantiated garbage. You've just declared all musical performances by anyone other than the original composer to be soulless and irrelevant--I wonder if the entire fucking fields of classical and jazz would be interested to know that they're all soulless, and that nothing they do contains any artistry because they didn't write it.




    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    even more and even if it was original at the beginning, this soulless sound is mastered in studios and the guy whos mastering it tries to add something in it and tries to make it sound good for cheap speakers/earphones and the resault sounds like plastic carbage bag. but thats no problem because britney spears etc sells enyway, but it doesent sell because its what real musicians would call a good music, it sells because this is what most people(and most people got no idea about music) like.
    100% of commercially released music, whether by major or indie labels, is mixed and mastered on a variety of systems designed specifically to sound as good on as many different sound systems as possible.

    This is an absolute industry standard, so you've actually just claimed that 100% of professionally released music "sounds like a plastic carbage [sic] bag."

    You've contradicted yourself and demonstrated absolutely zero knowledge of this topic enough times now that I wonder if anyone is even still reading. Have you ever been inside a studio? Do you have any idea at all how any of this works, or are you just making shit up to justify your anti-pop bias?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    im not saying that pop music reguires no talent, it reguires talent on small aspects of music and much talent in knowing what people want at the moment, not to mention that you need to get your music to people so that they know to buy your music. i cant sing and i dont look like britney spears, thats why im no pop star
    Pop music requires very significant talent to be done effectively because it's an extraordinarily competitive market. You're not a pop star because you suck at songwriting.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    britney spears might be desently good singer, but her voice is mastered so much in studio(by removing small "dirt"(or what ever its called) from her voice) that it just makes it sound plastic and doesent sound good enymore. or who knows if she can really even sing, you can master enyones voice in studio to sound good
    100% of all professionally recorded vocals are professionally mastered, overdubbed, layered, effected, EQ'd, panned and mixed to sound ideal. The modern conception of an album is based on creating an imaginary ideal, not on accurately representing the live show. In the real world today, the live show serves as a feeble imitation of the idealized perfection of the record, not the other way around. Have you even heard a new album in the last 15 years? How could you not know this?

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i dont mind people listening to soulless music, but if people cant see that the music they say is the best band in the world is missing the soul, they dont know what music is about, therefore they got nothing to say when it comes to real music.
    It's not soulless just because you don't like it, and you're not in any kind of position to be telling anyone they don't know what they're talking about!

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i think i might have missed some essential info out, but i think we can continue from here pretty well too

    and im not debating to piss you off and i hope that you wont get pissed off from my opinions
    I'm more incredulous than pissed off, frankly. Virtually every single thing you said about writing, recording and performing music in this post was patently ridiculous.

    I can't even wait to hear what your definition of "soulless" is!


    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    exactly. and i judge music on more broader understanding, this is why i dont personally like meny bands. and i can judge music from objective point of view, this is why i might think that some music is good, even tho i dont personally like it.
    Judging music from a so-called "more broader [sic] understanding" doesn't mean you dislike more music. If anything it's the opposite--if your understanding is really that broad, then you like a lot more music because you're capable of evaluating it in context.

    A broader understanding of music is conducive to enjoying more music, not less. Thinking that most music is bad is a symptom of poor understanding and personal genre bias, not educated enlightenment. How ridiculous.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #40
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Whatever happened to liking music because it makes you happy and you're able to relate with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

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