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  1. #11
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    so wrong, yet again. 46 & 2 is a reference to the # of chromosomes in a human (23 pairs and 1 gender pair), and the song is about the corruption of the human form and it grows and decays in this world. But hey, don't let me stop you on your mission, son!
    You're right, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.

  2. #12
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    The last lyrics you posted are still a bunch of moralizing. NTs don't tend to write about that.
    If you think that's moralizing, then... argh.

    I believe that you're actually describing Ne, Fi, or maybe even Ti...

    NTs have extremely pathetic and ridiculous sorts of emotions that bury their intellect, then. Fine, call Ni whatever you want. :rolli:

    I take satisfaction in knowing that you'd never understand it in a million years.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    Such a haters thread, I'm not going to bother giving a response to all the individual posts. I will just generally say that Maynard James Keenan is an intelligent man. He knows what he writes about, and he knows how to write it. If things are interpretable multiple ways, it's probably because he wants it that way.

    Adding to that I must say that forty six & 2, and lateralus are two of my all time favorite Tool songs.

  4. #14
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Both of those are registering as "foreign" to me.

    Changes does not come, it's either continuous or it's sudden.

    Metamorphosis is described as the change in a butterfly, but Ni perception changes much faster. A sudden realization, then the flood gate opens and everything goes under til the waves die down and what reminds is the newly transformed. Where is the turning point in 46&2? Mind you I do like the song, but I don't think it's truly Ni.
    My stuff (design & other junk) lives here: http://nnbox.ca

  5. #15
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    If you think that's moralizing, then... argh.

    I believe that you're actually describing Ne, Fi, or maybe even Ti...

    NTs have extremely pathetic and ridiculous sorts of emotions that bury their intellect, then. Fine, call Ni whatever you want. :rolli:

    I take satisfaction in knowing that you'd never understand it in a million years.
    Uh huh. That's a real useful contribution there, champ; keep it up.


    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    whatever you say admiral S, the song is obviously about the tug and pull of nature and nurture on each other. And if what YOU'RE doing is Ni, then I'll gladly stay the fuck away and maintain ignorance.

    Captain S, out.
    That's fine, but I'm going more for the symbolism behind it and looking at what personal revelations might have inspired writing about it, not the literal surface references to chromosome theory.

    So, in this case you've gone straight for the S interpretation while I've gone for the N one.

    Not that that's bad.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #16
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I used to say INTJ for Maynard but now I actually think pissy INFJ maybe?

    Hard to say.
    INTJ with same subtype as Bruno, the heretic mystic. Deep Ni-Fi connection there. A highly individualistic type of mindset.

    EDIT TO ADD: I see the lyrics in 46 & 2 here (I'd probably never actually listen to this type of music) as being profoundly deep with layered meaning. It's about the corrupting action of the corruprting world on the individual human self/soul/persona...whatever name you want to give it, no matter how we strive with our individual thoughts, feelings, insights and actions in our earthly life--- just all that we strive for and are in our lives--- death and decay await us all in the end.

    Nozflubber is correct in that he's using the symbolism of DNA and it's decay. I see it as a Ni-Fi statement about the individual and the corruption of physical life. There are deeper issues of DNA being the code to our individuality here in this world and yet it is also the timekeeper to how long we get to hang onto it before we return to primordial soup. There's also issues about our shadows, human duality, duality of life and death, growth and decay.

  7. #17
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    You're right, but that doesn't mean he's wrong.
    there's plenty else which does make him wrong though.
    i assure you it has nothing to do with Ni nor does any of their songs or any one written by any other notable musician.

    sw is probably high, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out you are too.
    we fukin won boys

  8. #18
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    there's plenty else which does make him wrong though.
    i assure you it has nothing to do with Ni nor does any of their songs or any one written by any other notable musician.

    sw is probably high, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out you are too.
    lol good read, I was; however, I do know that MJK is also a student of Jung himself, as I'm sure you can find in interviews.

    As far as 46+2, though--I said Ni because he's critiquing his own mistakes/seeking self-betterment through expansion of perspectives. This seems to be a running theme with him...what would you say the song is about?

    Come to think of it, any song which involves pushing perspectives by questioning the fundamental bases for our views of reality could easily be described as "about gaining Ni." Break on through to the other side, anybody? (Not saying anyone's writing about the actual Jungian concept of Ni, just that lots of musicians write about ideas relating to it.)

    Speaking of Tool--this crazy ENFP friend of mine out in Utah knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy and has somehow managed to schmooze his way into a limo ride with the band, stocked with Cristal as well as Maynard's wine...he apparently owns a vineyard.

    I'm pretty interested to see how those guys will respond to an ENFP bubbling over with fanboy excitement. teehee.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #19
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    As far as 46+2, though--I said Ni because he's critiquing his own mistakes/seeking self-betterment through expansion of perspectives. This seems to be a running theme with him...what would you say the song is about?
    Sounds like plain ol' Ti and Ne to me. Ni isn't about expanding existing perspectives, it's about inventing them and switching between them.

  10. #20
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Sounds like plain ol' Ti and Ne to me. Ni isn't about expanding existing perspectives, it's about inventing them and switching between them.
    Semantics. I was referring to expanding one's own total perspective on the universe, which clearly involves inventing new perspectives.

    This Lenore quote is what made me think of Ni:

    "Introverted Intuitions are not really ideas. They're like trains at the edge of articulated knowledge. You can't claim them or advocate them. You put on a hat, grab hold of a boxcar door, and see where they go."

    Notice that nowhere in the song does he ever explicitly state what it is that he's realized--he can't. Ne is much more easily expressed in terms of describing exactly what it is that you've realized.

    46+2 sounds like his mind is suddenly tearing down a lot of old erroneous ideas ("insecure delusions") and questioning the basis for all of his understanding because the process of his perception itself may have been misleading.

    What is more Ne+Ti about that than Ni+Fe/Te?


    P.S.,

    It's moralizing because its fundamental theme is lamenting an amoral world. Crime pays...but it shouldn't. NTs aren't amoral; we just don't usually write about that sort of thing. It's very NFJ.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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