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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I read Gabler's biography of Disney in 2007 and it deals with these claims in a more nuanced view. It is simply irresponsible to throw around claims of racism or Nazism so casually. But then again, why should I care what you say. You're obviously not looking for substance.

    A word to the wise.
    Synarch Disney?

    Saying I'm not looking for substance is offensive, and actually untrue.

    I also don't like being once again called an attention-whoring troll. This is a forum right, where people post? This is a place I'm supposed to be posting? So...
    I find it interesting that everyone randomly posts on here, some things very valid/valuable/interesting, and some things much lighter. But when I do it, I am getting singled out by certain people (whom I thought liked me, by the way) and called names.

    I know, perhaps you should give me a list of what would be acceptable for me to post, to you. Sure, then I can check the list every time I open my (proverbial) mouth to type a post on here.

    Truthfully, this approach where it's not acceptable for me to joke or be silly is getting QUITE DULL.
    Edit: In all honesty, I thought Disney's political affiliations before WWII were well-known, and I was serious, though it was masked in a bit of a joke -- I do hope not all people of Disney's type hold those views. What is so bad about saying that?

  2. #12
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    SO! That's what ENTP's look like...

    I hope they're not all racist, nazi party members like Disney.
    This gets tossed around often. I can't attest to him being a racist or not, but it is very unlikely he was nazi. There were definitely some pretty nasty stereotypical things in films regarding jews and blacks, but I don't know if that can be attributed to Disney himself, or just the times they were in. There were a lot of anti-Semitic sentiment in the studios and also in the world at that time. However, when people brought some of the more offensive things to his attention, he removed them, but some stereotypes were still portrayed. I know that he also made that one anti-nazi film starring Donald Duck, that is perceived as promoting nazism. All the evidence that draws to his links with nazism is circumstantial, at best.

    It is well documented that he was anti-communist and anti-union, though.

  3. #13
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    Synarch Disney?
    I respect anyone who accomplishes big things. I cannot love someone I do not know.

    Saying I'm not looking for substance is offensive, and actually untrue.
    Your words suggest otherwise.

    I also don't like being once again called an attention-whoring troll. This is a forum right, where people post? This is a place I'm supposed to be posting? So...
    I find it interesting that everyone randomly posts on here, some things very valid/valuable/interesting, and some things much lighter. But when I do it, I am getting singled out by certain people (whom I thought liked me, by the way) and called names.
    It looks like an argument, but I'll be damned if I can find one in there.

    I know, perhaps you should give me a list of what would be acceptable for me to post, to you. Sure, then I can check the list every time I open my (proverbial) mouth to type a post on here.

    Truthfully, this approach where it's not acceptable for me to joke or be silly is getting QUITE DULL.
    Let your women be silent in church.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    This gets tossed around often. I can't attest to him being a racist or not, but it is very unlikely he was nazi. There were definitely some pretty nasty stereotypical things in films regarding jews and blacks, but I don't know if that can be attributed to Disney himself, or just the times they were in. There were a lot of anti-Semitic sentiment in the studios and also in the world at that time. However, when people brought some of the more offensive things to his attention, he removed them, but some stereotypes were still portrayed. I know that he also made that one anti-nazi film starring Donald Duck, that is perceived as promoting nazism. All the evidence that draws to his links with nazism is circumstantial, at best.

    It is well documented that he was anti-communist and anti-union, though.
    The anti-nazi stuff was after the war. He was into the nazis before the U.S. was officially against nazis...

    I found this online (but I actually saw a documentary dealing with the American Nazi Party movement in the 1930's, that detailed this):

    "Walt Disney accompanied [attorney Gunther] Lessing to American Nazi party meetings and rallies. According to one of [Disney’s] animators, Arthur Babbitt, “On more than one occasion, I observed Walt Disney and Gunther Lessing there, along with a lot of other prominent Nazi-afflicted [sic] Hollywood personalities. Disney was going to meetings all the time. I was invited to the homes of several prominent actors and musicians, all of whom were actively working for the American Nazi party.” … Walt was also committed to the ‘America First’ movement and became one of Hollywood’s most active prewar isolationists. Under Lessing’s tutelage, Disney discovered how the passions and power of political activism could be used as weapons for personal gain. And later on, for revenge. As part of Lessing’s antiunion activities, he persuaded Walt to become an official Hollywood informant for the FBI. Disney testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee, and he named several of his striking employees as Communist sympathizers.

    The German filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl, whose documentaries in the mid-30s had helped to glorify the Nazis, claimed that "after Kristallnacht [1938], she approached every studio in Hollywood looking for work. No studio head would even screen her movies except Walt Disney. He told her he admired her work but if it became known that he was considering hiring her, it would damage his reputation.

    His interest in Medieval German folktales of which he adapted a number into his cartoons gave rise to rumors of personal sympathies for Nazi Germany and anti-Semitism during the 1930s, until Disney started to make anti-Nazi cartoons during World War II commissioned by the government. After the war, these rumors of Nazi sympathies regained currency when Disney worked closely together with former Nazi Germany top scientist Wernher von Braun (who had constructed the V1 and V2 rockets devastating London during the war) in order to popularize von Braun's visions of space travel in American society.
    "

  5. #15
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    Truthfully, this approach where it's not acceptable for me to joke or be silly is getting QUITE DULL.
    Edit: In all honesty, I thought Disney's political affiliations before WWII were well-known, and I was serious, though it was masked in a bit of a joke -- I do hope not all people of Disney's type hold those views. What is so bad about saying that?
    I wasn't personally offended by what you said, but I was taken aback that you would compare me to a racist or nazi. I got that you were joking, but I did think it to be in poor taste.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    This gets tossed around often. I can't attest to him being a racist or not, but it is very unlikely he was nazi. There were definitely some pretty nasty stereotypical things in films regarding jews and blacks, but I don't know if that can be attributed to Disney himself, or just the times they were in. There were a lot of anti-Semitic sentiment in the studios and also in the world at that time. However, when people brought some of the more offensive things to his attention, he removed them, but some stereotypes were still portrayed. I know that he also made that one anti-nazi film starring Donald Duck, that is perceived as promoting nazism. All the evidence that draws to his links with nazism is circumstantial, at best.

    It is well documented that he was anti-communist and anti-union, though.
    This is the problem with labels. They're empty words. No context. If someone tries to shut down your studio, you'd be an anti-communist, anti-unionist, too. There are those who know what happened, those who wonder what happened, and those who make things happen. The first two are useless as tits on a hog because no one truly knows anything unless they were there. Racism is a backward looking conceit applied retroactively from our enlightened Present.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    I respect anyone who accomplishes big things. I cannot love someone I do not know.
    Good for you...

    Your words suggest otherwise.
    To YOU. That's important to distinguish.

    It looks like an argument, but I'll be damned if I can find one in there.
    Interesting. The argument was that I ought to be allowed to post normally as anyone else is on the forum, and that I believe I'm being singled out unfairly. Was that so hard to glean?

    Let your women be silent in church.
    You MUST mean this facetiously, but it's still lame. And to think I used to think you were one of the funniest people here.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I wasn't personally offended by what you said, but I was taken aback that you would compare me to a racist or nazi. I got that you were joking, but I did think it to be in poor taste.
    Fair enough, but I was not comparing ENTP's to racists or nazis. I was stating what I thought to be true about Walt Disney. I could have easily said, "I hope not all ENTP's are mean!" Doesn't mean I'm comparing them to mean people, exactly.

    Still, I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    The anti-nazi stuff was after the war. He was into the nazis before the U.S. was officially against nazis...

    I found this online (but I actually saw a documentary dealing with the American Nazi Party movement in the 1930's, that detailed this):

    "Walt Disney accompanied [attorney Gunther] Lessing to American Nazi party meetings and rallies. According to one of [Disney’s] animators, Arthur Babbitt, “On more than one occasion, I observed Walt Disney and Gunther Lessing there, along with a lot of other prominent Nazi-afflicted [sic] Hollywood personalities. Disney was going to meetings all the time. I was invited to the homes of several prominent actors and musicians, all of whom were actively working for the American Nazi party.” … Walt was also committed to the ‘America First’ movement and became one of Hollywood’s most active prewar isolationists. Under Lessing’s tutelage, Disney discovered how the passions and power of political activism could be used as weapons for personal gain. And later on, for revenge. As part of Lessing’s antiunion activities, he persuaded Walt to become an official Hollywood informant for the FBI. Disney testified before the House Un-American Activities Committee, and he named several of his striking employees as Communist sympathizers.

    The German filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl, whose documentaries in the mid-30s had helped to glorify the Nazis, claimed that "after Kristallnacht [1938], she approached every studio in Hollywood looking for work. No studio head would even screen her movies except Walt Disney. He told her he admired her work but if it became known that he was considering hiring her, it would damage his reputation.

    His interest in Medieval German folktales of which he adapted a number into his cartoons gave rise to rumors of personal sympathies for Nazi Germany and anti-Semitism during the 1930s, until Disney started to make anti-Nazi cartoons during World War II commissioned by the government. After the war, these rumors of Nazi sympathies regained currency when Disney worked closely together with former Nazi Germany top scientist Wernher von Braun (who had constructed the V1 and V2 rockets devastating London during the war) in order to popularize von Braun's visions of space travel in American society.
    "
    Where do you think we got our nuclear and rocket scientists? We hired a whole load of Nazi's. Honestly, I'd rather hire a genius who was on the wrong side than a moron on the right side any day.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by maliafee View Post
    You MUST mean this facetiously, but it's still lame. And to think I used to think you were one of the funniest people here.
    What a shame.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

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