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  1. #1
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Default The Mentalist Vs Lie to Me?

    For anyone who watches both of these shows with as much intrigue as I do, what can you say about the similar plot lines? Kal vs Pat? One is the ISTJ to verify truth (kal) based on science and the other is an INFJ (Patrick Jane) who verifies truth based on huge mental leaps or precognition. Two very interesting perspectives on finding out the truth and deducing human behaviour, although extremely similar shows that compliment each other. Any thoughts on my analysis? I think ISTJ and INFJ sums it up nicely, thinker versus intuiter, even science versus faith in the outworking of the mental deductions made in both shows. I like the Mentalist better, much more fun for me, I think Lie to Me has an expiration date.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  2. #2
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    I also enjoy both those shows, but The Mentalist is a far more enjoyable show to watch in my opinion, and its probably becase Jane is much easier to relate to for me than Lightman. On the surface, both shows have a lot to do with observation, but on the human side of it, it seems to me that Jane's observations and intutions are more based on subconscious and conscious acts and the inferances that can be made from them and Lightman's are more on the involuntary reactions. It does seem to be a pretty good contrast between S and N approaching a similar problem in different ways to get a similar result. Beyond those surface appearacnes, what I like about Lie to Me is its focus on the questions of ethics and lying/deciet and how sometimes not knowing the complete truth may be the best thing and if someoen knows the truth, deciding when its best to not say anything. What I like about The Mentalist (in addition to finding Jane such a likeable character) is the dialog and character interaction and the supporting team on the show as well as being able to balance lighthearted and serious moments. The mentalist being more of a baisc crime procedural with a twist also gives it more room for espisode variety, while Lie to Me feels more forced into focusing on certain things every episode, but they have done a good job of keeping it interesting so far.

  3. #3
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I love you, Tim Roth, but your show sucks.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  4. #4
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    For anyone who watches both of these shows with as much intrigue as I do, what can you say about the similar plot lines? Kal vs Pat? One is the ISTJ to verify truth (kal) based on science and the other is an INFJ (Patrick Jane) who verifies truth based on huge mental leaps or precognition. Two very interesting perspectives on finding out the truth and deducing human behaviour, although extremely similar shows that compliment each other. Any thoughts on my analysis? I think ISTJ and INFJ sums it up nicely, thinker versus intuiter, even science versus faith in the outworking of the mental deductions made in both shows. I like the Mentalist better, much more fun for me, I think Lie to Me has an expiration date.
    Just out of curiosity, why do you think Patrick Jane is INFJ? I thought he was one too but I have heard many arguments say that he is ENTP. Well, both are N dominant and have FeTi either in auxilliary and tertiary positions. How do we differentiate between the two in how they read people?

  5. #5
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Simple answer, Jane is INFJ because he's always in his head and he's always listening, and not thinking his thoughts out loud. ENTP's come to their conclusions by saying them, not internalizing them, the whole Ni versus Ne differentiation. He's DOMINANT Ni and that's it, it's simple really. Patrick Jane has to tell someone what he's already come up with and share what he already knows (his step ahead), whereas an ENTP will discover the answer by talking it through. INFJ is subtle, and ENTP is overt, and Jane is the former.

    ENTP's pick the brains of their peers for everything and make their next move by asking everyone for advice in a group, wheras Jane is off on his own all the time, doing his own thing always a step ahead with his intuitive leap (like Columbo playing dumb), always wanting to isolate the group from what he's doing and manipulate situations away from the group, without their consent, all by himself, like the loner INFJ. "With" the group, but not "of" the group. He's a very typical INFJ in already coming to a conclusion and then manipulating circumstances to prove the intuitive leap, while being very covert, subtle and unsuspecting, which is NOT a trait of ENTP's at all. ENTP's are too OVERT in their approach (not that INFJ's can't be), from what I've read and from experience. Notice how he lets people talk and will only interupt when a point is needed to be made? ENTP's are dismissive to everyone they think are dumb and not with the program and will go on and on and on, and Jane is not like that, he hears everyone out, as that's the whole way of uncovering the truth, by listening. ENTP's like the concrete, and don't deal well in the grey areas of life, and often get hung up on minutia which is manifest in a lack of follow through, ie, time to start a new project. Also, ENTP's are much more capable of letting go of the past than INFJ's who can't let go of the past for the life of them like Jane when it comes to Red John. Notice how he won all that money when he went gambling, and then thoughtfully bought everyone something they wanted, and then anonymously donated the rest to charity? Super INFJ loner mentality where money isn't as important as the greater good, a means to an end, not an end in itself. Patrick Jane also avoids argumentation and debate and attempts to replace it with dialogue and discussion when talking to his peers, but allows chaos and debate when talking to suspects. The strong differentiation between those who are with me and how I treat them and those that are suspect. It may be confusing because INFJ's and ENTP's are both very dismissive to people, with statements like, "No, it's this, nothing more." Finally, back to my main point towards INFJ is the dominant Ni and secondary Fe and prophetic characteristic that goes in hand (probably what you were first thinking IDK) with all INFJ's!

    So Jane can be summed up in Ni, loner, can't let go of the past, listener, idealist, giving, simplistic, quiet, in headspace, empathetic, relational system analyzer, can't be fooled, humanitarian. Like what it says here:

    INFJ Profile

    Anyone have anything to say about Cal from Lie To Me being an ISTJ with the hard sciences? Is he more of an INTJ than ISTJ? More of a science builder than a science analyzer? Cal sniffs out the truth like a detective with cold hard science, as in the ISTJ, so that's why I staked my claim on ISTJ. Your point TReflection, about the science becoming repetitive is exactly what I meant by having an expiration date. Unless Lie To Me comes up with a more genuine macroplot, the show will get stale and dry because we've all seen Sherlock Holmes and CSI.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  6. #6
    Glycerine
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    Thank you Paisley! My initial reaction was that he was INFJ. That's so awesome. Now I know why I thought Jane and I acted fairly similar when it comes to reading people.

  7. #7
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    Glad you responded IDK, I was wondering what your thoughts on my analysis would be like, but I guess you agree with it, so thank you for responding and for the approval. After I read it over, I realized I left a few thoughts out but adding them without anymore questions would simply belabor what's written.

    I guess the only thing I would like to emphasize with this analysis is to read over the argument I made, and then read over the INFJ profile, it's kinda shocking the similarities on all counts, especially the very very last paragraph. Jane is a very balanced INFJ.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  8. #8
    Glycerine
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    Quote Originally Posted by paisley1 View Post
    Glad you responded IDK, I was wondering what your thoughts on my analysis would be like, but I guess you agree with it, so thank you for responding and for the approval. After I read it over, I realized I left a few thoughts out but adding them without anymore questions would simply belabor what's written.

    I guess the only thing I would like to emphasize with this analysis is to read over the argument I made, and then read over the INFJ profile, it's kinda shocking the similarities on all counts, especially the very very last paragraph. Jane is a very balanced INFJ.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...mentalist.html
    hmmm... I am just curious what you think of the other people's argument in the other thread? I was sort of convinced the he was ENTP after that thread but I thought you made a much more thorough argument than the people in the other thread.

  9. #9
    Senior Member paisley1's Avatar
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    No one on that link provided any real argument, there's just a bunch of statements and hunches, but I responded to hopefully get some more thoughts on it.
    "Truth stands true, independent of whether you agree with it or not."

    "Don't let what matters least, matter most."

    Extroverted (E) 50% Introverted (I) 50%
    Intuitive (N) 62.5% Sensing (S) 37.5%
    Feeling (F) 51.61% Thinking (T) 48.39%
    Judging (J) 51.52% Perceiving (P) 48.48%
    8w9 EIE

  10. #10
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    Jane is ENTP, not INFJ.
    I am INFJ and drawn to ENTP, which is a "natural partner" for an INFJ. At one time I too thought the character was INFJ--but no--ENTP.

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