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WATCHMEN!

DigitalMethod

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It tried to get to deeper meanings which I enjoyed but the movie had multiple personality disorder or something because every time it seemed to get close to a deeper meaning it burst forth with unnecessary violence or sex.

The violence was enjoyable, but do I really need one hour of the movie devoted to slow motion violence? No.

And seriously people do not have that much blood in their bodies.

I understand sex scenes and the need for them sometimes but I don't see why a sex scene would have to be three minutes long? You could just hint at the sex, even show the sex for 15 seconds, but c'mon after 30 seconds it's just awkward.

Too much unnecessary crap for me to be able to call it "a above average movie."

I'd give it 6 or 7 out of 10.

And honestly I cannot take a man seriously when he has his penis out in the open all the time.
 

SuperServal

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Risen, from your post I surmise that you have never read the graphic novel. Please don't judge this story based only on the awful, awful movie.

Though many of the problems you had with the film stem from the source material, the novel actually has depth and characterization that would probably help you understand it better. The film sucked all the life out of the characters and replaced that void with extended violence, non-acting, clumsy pacing, and a video game aesthetic.

If you ever get the chance to read Watchmen, do it. It's one of the best pieces of popular fiction in the universe.

The movie is shit......but nowhere near as bad as Snyder's previous effort, 300. Oh god....300......


Oh, and Udog.....that was beyond funny. You made my day! :D
 

Risen

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Do I look like Mr. Manhattan?

IMAGE_604.jpg


I swear my manhood isn't as scary as his :p .
 

ladypinkington

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Okay- just saw it and I must say that I am left feeling flat.

I do agree the sex scene was way too much, I just didn't need to see all of that- it was just bad form and taste.

I don't know what it was exactly but something overall was just missing, and the movie storyboard was pretty much panel for panel )there are a few big changes but in general) the same as the comic- but it didn't have the same impact and same excellence. It really didn't translate powerfully like the comic-perhaps I am just not into seeing so much visually the storyline and content of The WATCHMEN?

Perhaps I need that barrier of only panel views and the ability to fill in a lot with my own censored imagination. Perhaps it is the pacing of reading and being able to stop and breathe and get away from all of that heaviness and then come back- where as with a movie you have to take it all in nonstop.
Perhaps the cartoonyness of a comic- gives me a safe suspense of disbelief.

I was impressed with the actor who did Rorschach and think that that part of making a real life human 3-D character was well done. I think the casting was done very well overall, even if all the actors were not perhaps directed the most excellently- they were cast well and did a pretty good job. The exception for me was Sally Jupiter or the first Silk Specter- I pictured her with more attitude and a feisty gruff then the actress they chose and didn't care for her acting.

The guy who did Rorschach did a great job and perhaps was directed the best- or perhaps just got it enough that he didn't even need much direction. Daniel D. the Nite Owl was excellent and a perfect fit as well as the guy who did the Comedian.

Dr. Manhattan didn't impress or disappoint if that makes sense. Silk Specter 2 was fine enough. Ozymandias I feel the same as Dr. Manhattan.

It was interesting, as a movie for movie's sake apart from the whole comic thing, I am left feeling like I don't know if I liked it or not- and that perhaps I was not old enough to be allowed to view it at 26,lol.

The effects were amazing. I wish there was more of the guy who sold magazines and the guy reading the comic by his newstand- I think that they are important to timing and what is going on with the average joe character in the imagined world and give the whole story a more complete feel.

I think the characters in the comic have a more realistic feel in the comic and there was also a safety net and better breathing room and pacing for violence and sex in the comic and reverse for the movie.

I don't even know exactly what they really could have done differently, I just know that the timing and pacing was off somehow and that something was missing and bad things were added.
I have no idea if I liked it or not,lol.
 

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The part that annoys me most is too much flag time, its okay once in awhile but hello America isn't the centre of the universe. Its the first thing I notice, in most American films, its almost like that is the world and nothing else seems to matter, ugh boots for me.

Apart from that its a film with graphic violence and graphic sex, what more could you ask of a graphic novel.

Probably not going to be a blockbuster friendly film by its very definition of content and the fact it panders almost to hay its okay, abuse is acceptable because I gets to have my baby, so sad, so very sad, the Vietnam bit just as appalling. There is nothing funny about the comedian, its not meant to. I think this is why its going to rub people the wrong way, the charachter that is made to be an asshole is.

Who knew carrot tops and midgets and costumes could make a film.

I was thinking right blue long doodle and abs for intimacy problems and instant transmition to anywhere with extras to fiddle around with, your just not emo enough for me. Hello batlikecatsuit and soft core sex with special effects, yay for flying and fire, its not hard core, don't kid yourself.

As to the ideas, it tries to put depth into the film and to some degree it succeeds most notably with only Rorschach I think and the why he became the way he became. You people don't understand, I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with ME!

Having said all that a film that makes grit look like a plaything and bonus for eroticism.

7/10 for me because it is original and while you'd think this pushes the envelope, it really doesn't, not as much as I thought it could. Goes back to the basic premise, good vs evil, which is better to morality or not to morality, maybe thinking the grey in the middle is appropriate.

Oh man why was I thinking by the end of it that Spiderman tickle with great power comes great responsibility. Chuckles.

Rameses, Colossus. touche
 

BerberElla

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I'm disappointed, what a shit film. I give it a U for unrated.

Just goes to show, the more you look forward to a film, the greater the chance it will flop out on you.
 

Risen

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The part that annoys me most is too much flag time, its okay once in awhile but hello America isn't the centre of the universe. Its the first thing I notice, in most American films, its almost like that is the world and nothing else seems to matter, ugh boots for me.

This was a film about the 60's~80's, a time when Americans were very patriotic, and while America was struggling in the Vietnam war. That was the mood of the time period expressed in the film. It's an American film, so there's nothing wrong with it supporting America, the country it was made in. Don't hate.
 

MrME

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8/10

Pros:
-Adeptly condensed the book down to fit the screen.
-Respectful of the source, and maintained its core message, while also delivering some captivating character drama.
-Overall, performances were good. Wilson, Crudup and Morgan were all excellent. Haley knocked it out of the park, any time Rorschach screamed a line, I giggled.
-Very engaging, the 2.5 hours flew by.

Cons:
-The make-up was pretty much terrible. Nixon and 70-year-old Silk Spectre were wholly unconvincing. They only pulled me out of the story. Then again, I watched it at IMAX. Maybe the flaws were more apparent for that reason?
-Akerman wasn't terrible, but she did deliver a few clunky lines.
-Sometimes I couldn't understand what Haley was saying through the mask.
-Some of the CG was a bit distracting, but, then again, IMAX.
-Some extended scenes seemed unnecessary.

Overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit.

The part that annoys me most is too much flag time, its okay once in awhile but hello America isn't the centre of the universe. Its the first thing I notice, in most American films, its almost like that is the world and nothing else seems to matter, ugh boots for me.

The comic and the movie are both rather critical of the United States. Perhaps the amount is reduced in the film, but it's still critical. For example, The Comedian saying that he embodies the American dream.

7/10 for me because it is original and while you'd think this pushes the envelope, it really doesn't, not as much as I thought it could. Goes back to the basic premise, good vs evil, which is better to morality or not to morality, maybe thinking the grey in the middle is appropriate.

How would you propose a superhero film push the envelope without a moral dilemma at its heart?
 

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All I'm saying is that discretion is far more powerful, nothing about hating just annoying, just overuse pure and simple. And there is certainly nothing patriotic about placing a flag on the coffin of such a person.

I understand the analogies made. Perhaps the criticism should be shown differently because what most disturbs me about this film and why its going to get a flat feeling is that it is not okay to be violent to women and then make the film almost sympathetic to the comedians point of view. Its saying beat her up she'll be battered enough now to warm up to him later on. It isn't cool to send a message that says hay its forgivable and pales compared to other things. And its definitely unnecessary to have Mr blue's tackle showing so often. Notwithstanding the dog scene was just in bad taste. And the Vietnam bit was saying you know what, its okay, I'll get rid of the undesirable, even mr non emo didn't stop me so its okay to continue behaving badly.

And I think that for people unfamiliar with the comic even those that are will be unsettled by the film because it isn't expected. I mean you can go to a horror film and sort of know it'll be gross, or go to a sexy film and sort of know there'll be sex etc but here it's a bit surreal. I'm just saying the premise is still too predictable in that sense that I picked up on who it was too soon. And it made me go, its almost another one of those batman, to push the button or not to push the button scenarios, or Spiderman's to save a bus full of people or my love. Just add grit and change the suit so it looks original. Now if it was more about the ethics behind the consequences of morality yet its more about morality behind the motive without the ethics.
 

MrME

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... what most disturbs me about this film and why its going to get a flat feeling is that it is not okay to be violent to women and then make the film almost sympathetic to the comedians point of view.

Its saying beat her up she'll be battered enough now to warm up to him later on. It isn't cool to send a message that says hay its forgivable and pales compared to other things.

So, you're suggesting that the film is trying to hold The Comedian up as some kind of example, "Hey kids, see this is how it's done"? The film makes it clear that he was a bastard and that most people hated him. He gets severely beaten and thrown out of a window in the opening scene!

And its definitely unnecessary to have Mr blue's tackle showing so often.

That's just you being uptight, and it was in the original comic.

Notwithstanding the dog scene was just in bad taste.

See my previous comment.

And the Vietnam bit was saying you know what, its okay, I'll get rid of the undesirable, even mr non emo didn't stop me so its okay to continue behaving badly.

That scene went right over your head and/or you're unwilling to see the big picture here, you're picking nits.

And I think that for people unfamiliar with the comic even those that are will be unsettled by the film because it isn't expected.

Aside from being rated R.

Now if it was more about the ethics behind the consequences of morality yet its more about morality behind the motive without the ethics.

What does that even mean?
 

Risen

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Aside from being rated R.

A lot of the stuff in that movie deserved an NC-17 rating. I am the least sensitive person when it comes to sex and violence, and this movie made my jaw drop in some moments. I seriously had to ask the question half way through the movie, "Damn, what is this movie rated!?"
 

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So, you're suggesting that the film is trying to hold The Comedian up as some kind of example, "Hey kids, see this is how it's done"? The film makes it clear that he was a bastard and that most people hated him. He gets severely beaten and thrown out of a window in the opening scene!

That's just you being uptight, and it was in the original comic.

See my previous comment.

That scene went right over your head and/or you're unwilling to see the big picture here, you're picking nits.

Aside from being rated R.

What does that even mean?

Yes he gets beaten up and thrown out the window yet its out of context because it was to eliminate heroes based on the end rather than a reaction to his life, the film blurs the line since its accepted later on. In Australia its MA 15+ which should have been R 18+ which is a bit different.

Ethics behind the consequence of morality means unless a sequel happens there aren't any consequences and seems he gets off almost scott free for a supposed greater good. That to stop people self destructing you have to be destructive first and stop the objector along with, neutrality isn't an option. Its like saying peace is only achievable with an equal or greater amount of force than war to shock people into peace because there is a common target now and the best part is nobody needs to know. Hence morality behind the motive without the ethics means he uses his morality compass to convince his actions are good and that consequences are negligible to achieve some change and who isn't with me can smoke it only after the conflict and media footage of course.

I'm saying it in a convoluted way, still doesn't excuse it. I'm just saying its got excesses it didn't need, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.
 

Costrin

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Did you not see the seen at the end where the guy at the newspaper is possibly going to run an article from Rorschach's journal? And the comment from Laurie that John would say "Nothing ever ends" (which was actually said by John to Adrian in the GN).
 

xx00oo00xx

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MrME, all good points in your pro/con summary (by my first post you can see I had no idea how to compress my thoughts into just a few lines). I thought maybe the Nixon makeup might have been on purpose to give a more "comic-book feel" but you're right about the work on the old Silk Spectre. And I didn't watch the movie on IMAX but I noticed the CGI stuff at some points as well.

Regarding all this talk about the violence and sex in the movie, I actually appreciated it. The violence and relationship issues surrounding the Comedian and Silk Spectre depicted a very real -- and dark and puzzling -- side of human behaviour. I mean let's be clear, this is a rated-R movie based on an adult graphic novel. Just because it's in theatres and has superheroes and is from a comic, doesn't mean it's even partially directed at kids. The violent scene in the bar in Vietnam pushed things a bit, but again, I like seeing movies that push me to see different sides of the human psyche, not demonstrate to me how it should be or what is acceptable. There's no question that the Comedian was a bastard, but I thought the story was trying to show that even a bastard's perspective might be needed to see truth more clearly sometimes.

I dunno, I just find that with stories like this, maybe the level of grittiness attempts to force engagement of powerful human emotions as one works the different moral angles presented, perhaps to make it more challenging for one to approach the angles from a purely intellectual and detached standpoint (simulating real-life). Maybe.:blush:
 

MrME

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Ethics behind the consequence of morality means unless a sequel happens there aren't any consequences and seems he gets off almost scott free for a supposed greater good.

Except that at the very end it's suggested that the antagonist won't get off scot-free.

Its like saying peace is only achievable with an equal or greater amount of force than war to shock people into peace because there is a common target now and the best part is nobody needs to know.

You're removing the context of the story. In a world that is on the verge of destroying itself, people need to be united together in order to survive. The means by which that is acheived at the end of the story is acknowledged by the characters and filmmakers to originate from a morally gray area. The whole point of the movie is that morality isn't so cut and dry; it isn't black-and-white like Rorschach's face ... it isn't always necessarily good vs. evil like in other superhero stories ... and those who see the world this way will not survive. The Comedian understands this from the beginning, and that's what enables him to act like such a bastard throughout. The story never seeks to justify his or anybody's actions.
 

Kyrielle

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I dunno, I just find that with stories like this, maybe the level of grittiness attempts to force engagement of powerful human emotions as one works the different moral angles presented, perhaps to make it more challenging for one to approach the angles from a purely intellectual and detached standpoint (simulating real-life). Maybe.:blush:

I think that's a good point. Sometimes, being forced into the "knee-deep in shit" parts of humanity can be a good thing. Probably because most of us won't experience life to that same level of grittiness. Some will, but most will likely not see anything like that more than once or twice. To live in that kind of world where you are subject to the side of humanity society tries to mask, must be intense.

The only violence I had problems with were the alley and jail fight scenes. Just a little too over-the-top. Otherwise, I liked all the other violence and felt it had a place (as in, it sent a message).

I think that might be the problem others are having. Is the scenes that just weren't working well with the story overshadowed the ones that did.

(And for what it's worth, I think Dr. Manhattan had a damn fine blue noodle and it made sense for him to take the form of what I perceived as a being that was "perfect" and reminiscent of Greek gods...he reminded me of Atlas. Not necessarily because of the physique...more because it seems like his character had this heaviness about him...an exhaustion from having to constantly attend to the needs of mortals.)
 
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