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Thread: WATCHMEN!

  1. #71
    Senior Member MrME's Avatar
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    8/10

    Pros:
    -Adeptly condensed the book down to fit the screen.
    -Respectful of the source, and maintained its core message, while also delivering some captivating character drama.
    -Overall, performances were good. Wilson, Crudup and Morgan were all excellent. Haley knocked it out of the park, any time Rorschach screamed a line, I giggled.
    -Very engaging, the 2.5 hours flew by.

    Cons:
    -The make-up was pretty much terrible. Nixon and 70-year-old Silk Spectre were wholly unconvincing. They only pulled me out of the story. Then again, I watched it at IMAX. Maybe the flaws were more apparent for that reason?
    -Akerman wasn't terrible, but she did deliver a few clunky lines.
    -Sometimes I couldn't understand what Haley was saying through the mask.
    -Some of the CG was a bit distracting, but, then again, IMAX.
    -Some extended scenes seemed unnecessary.

    Overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    The part that annoys me most is too much flag time, its okay once in awhile but hello America isn't the centre of the universe. Its the first thing I notice, in most American films, its almost like that is the world and nothing else seems to matter, ugh boots for me.
    The comic and the movie are both rather critical of the United States. Perhaps the amount is reduced in the film, but it's still critical. For example, The Comedian saying that he embodies the American dream.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    7/10 for me because it is original and while you'd think this pushes the envelope, it really doesn't, not as much as I thought it could. Goes back to the basic premise, good vs evil, which is better to morality or not to morality, maybe thinking the grey in the middle is appropriate.
    How would you propose a superhero film push the envelope without a moral dilemma at its heart?
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  2. #72
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    All I'm saying is that discretion is far more powerful, nothing about hating just annoying, just overuse pure and simple. And there is certainly nothing patriotic about placing a flag on the coffin of such a person.

    I understand the analogies made. Perhaps the criticism should be shown differently because what most disturbs me about this film and why its going to get a flat feeling is that it is not okay to be violent to women and then make the film almost sympathetic to the comedians point of view. Its saying beat her up she'll be battered enough now to warm up to him later on. It isn't cool to send a message that says hay its forgivable and pales compared to other things. And its definitely unnecessary to have Mr blue's tackle showing so often. Notwithstanding the dog scene was just in bad taste. And the Vietnam bit was saying you know what, its okay, I'll get rid of the undesirable, even mr non emo didn't stop me so its okay to continue behaving badly.

    And I think that for people unfamiliar with the comic even those that are will be unsettled by the film because it isn't expected. I mean you can go to a horror film and sort of know it'll be gross, or go to a sexy film and sort of know there'll be sex etc but here it's a bit surreal. I'm just saying the premise is still too predictable in that sense that I picked up on who it was too soon. And it made me go, its almost another one of those batman, to push the button or not to push the button scenarios, or Spiderman's to save a bus full of people or my love. Just add grit and change the suit so it looks original. Now if it was more about the ethics behind the consequences of morality yet its more about morality behind the motive without the ethics.

  3. #73
    Wild Card Atomic Fiend's Avatar
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    6/10

  4. #74
    Senior Member MrME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    ... what most disturbs me about this film and why its going to get a flat feeling is that it is not okay to be violent to women and then make the film almost sympathetic to the comedians point of view.

    Its saying beat her up she'll be battered enough now to warm up to him later on. It isn't cool to send a message that says hay its forgivable and pales compared to other things.
    So, you're suggesting that the film is trying to hold The Comedian up as some kind of example, "Hey kids, see this is how it's done"? The film makes it clear that he was a bastard and that most people hated him. He gets severely beaten and thrown out of a window in the opening scene!

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    And its definitely unnecessary to have Mr blue's tackle showing so often.
    That's just you being uptight, and it was in the original comic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Notwithstanding the dog scene was just in bad taste.
    See my previous comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    And the Vietnam bit was saying you know what, its okay, I'll get rid of the undesirable, even mr non emo didn't stop me so its okay to continue behaving badly.
    That scene went right over your head and/or you're unwilling to see the big picture here, you're picking nits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    And I think that for people unfamiliar with the comic even those that are will be unsettled by the film because it isn't expected.
    Aside from being rated R.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Now if it was more about the ethics behind the consequences of morality yet its more about morality behind the motive without the ethics.
    What does that even mean?
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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrME View Post

    Aside from being rated R.

    A lot of the stuff in that movie deserved an NC-17 rating. I am the least sensitive person when it comes to sex and violence, and this movie made my jaw drop in some moments. I seriously had to ask the question half way through the movie, "Damn, what is this movie rated!?"

  6. #76
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrME View Post
    So, you're suggesting that the film is trying to hold The Comedian up as some kind of example, "Hey kids, see this is how it's done"? The film makes it clear that he was a bastard and that most people hated him. He gets severely beaten and thrown out of a window in the opening scene!

    That's just you being uptight, and it was in the original comic.

    See my previous comment.

    That scene went right over your head and/or you're unwilling to see the big picture here, you're picking nits.

    Aside from being rated R.

    What does that even mean?
    Yes he gets beaten up and thrown out the window yet its out of context because it was to eliminate heroes based on the end rather than a reaction to his life, the film blurs the line since its accepted later on. In Australia its MA 15+ which should have been R 18+ which is a bit different.

    Ethics behind the consequence of morality means unless a sequel happens there aren't any consequences and seems he gets off almost scott free for a supposed greater good. That to stop people self destructing you have to be destructive first and stop the objector along with, neutrality isn't an option. Its like saying peace is only achievable with an equal or greater amount of force than war to shock people into peace because there is a common target now and the best part is nobody needs to know. Hence morality behind the motive without the ethics means he uses his morality compass to convince his actions are good and that consequences are negligible to achieve some change and who isn't with me can smoke it only after the conflict and media footage of course.

    I'm saying it in a convoluted way, still doesn't excuse it. I'm just saying its got excesses it didn't need, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.

  7. #77
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Did you not see the seen at the end where the guy at the newspaper is possibly going to run an article from Rorschach's journal? And the comment from Laurie that John would say "Nothing ever ends" (which was actually said by John to Adrian in the GN).
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  8. #78
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    MrME, all good points in your pro/con summary (by my first post you can see I had no idea how to compress my thoughts into just a few lines). I thought maybe the Nixon makeup might have been on purpose to give a more "comic-book feel" but you're right about the work on the old Silk Spectre. And I didn't watch the movie on IMAX but I noticed the CGI stuff at some points as well.

    Regarding all this talk about the violence and sex in the movie, I actually appreciated it. The violence and relationship issues surrounding the Comedian and Silk Spectre depicted a very real -- and dark and puzzling -- side of human behaviour. I mean let's be clear, this is a rated-R movie based on an adult graphic novel. Just because it's in theatres and has superheroes and is from a comic, doesn't mean it's even partially directed at kids. The violent scene in the bar in Vietnam pushed things a bit, but again, I like seeing movies that push me to see different sides of the human psyche, not demonstrate to me how it should be or what is acceptable. There's no question that the Comedian was a bastard, but I thought the story was trying to show that even a bastard's perspective might be needed to see truth more clearly sometimes.

    I dunno, I just find that with stories like this, maybe the level of grittiness attempts to force engagement of powerful human emotions as one works the different moral angles presented, perhaps to make it more challenging for one to approach the angles from a purely intellectual and detached standpoint (simulating real-life). Maybe.

  9. #79
    Senior Member MrME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Ethics behind the consequence of morality means unless a sequel happens there aren't any consequences and seems he gets off almost scott free for a supposed greater good.
    Except that at the very end it's suggested that the antagonist won't get off scot-free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    Its like saying peace is only achievable with an equal or greater amount of force than war to shock people into peace because there is a common target now and the best part is nobody needs to know.
    You're removing the context of the story. In a world that is on the verge of destroying itself, people need to be united together in order to survive. The means by which that is acheived at the end of the story is acknowledged by the characters and filmmakers to originate from a morally gray area. The whole point of the movie is that morality isn't so cut and dry; it isn't black-and-white like Rorschach's face ... it isn't always necessarily good vs. evil like in other superhero stories ... and those who see the world this way will not survive. The Comedian understands this from the beginning, and that's what enables him to act like such a bastard throughout. The story never seeks to justify his or anybody's actions.
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  10. #80
    Senior Member Kyrielle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xx00oo00xx View Post
    I dunno, I just find that with stories like this, maybe the level of grittiness attempts to force engagement of powerful human emotions as one works the different moral angles presented, perhaps to make it more challenging for one to approach the angles from a purely intellectual and detached standpoint (simulating real-life). Maybe.
    I think that's a good point. Sometimes, being forced into the "knee-deep in shit" parts of humanity can be a good thing. Probably because most of us won't experience life to that same level of grittiness. Some will, but most will likely not see anything like that more than once or twice. To live in that kind of world where you are subject to the side of humanity society tries to mask, must be intense.

    The only violence I had problems with were the alley and jail fight scenes. Just a little too over-the-top. Otherwise, I liked all the other violence and felt it had a place (as in, it sent a message).

    I think that might be the problem others are having. Is the scenes that just weren't working well with the story overshadowed the ones that did.

    (And for what it's worth, I think Dr. Manhattan had a damn fine blue noodle and it made sense for him to take the form of what I perceived as a being that was "perfect" and reminiscent of Greek gods...he reminded me of Atlas. Not necessarily because of the physique...more because it seems like his character had this heaviness about him...an exhaustion from having to constantly attend to the needs of mortals.)
    "I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."

    Robert Frost

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