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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    My general thought process is if they pit the teams against each other with full camera crews involved.. then they must have been deemed capable of competing against each other.
    I strongly disagree here. School officials are not so ethically stellar that their judgment is without error or beyond questioning, simply because no one's is.

    /re Thread

    I decided to probe a little deeper and go to the school's website: The Dallas Academy and read their overview. Apparently their students struggle with dyslexia, dysgraphia, and "other learning differences." It's probably safe to say ADD/ADHD, or mild autism such as Asperger's Syndrome (which my brother has) would fall into miscellaneous issues. I'm more familiar with some of these diagnoses than others, but according to web definitions many of these disabilities are experienced in tandem. What I found most relevant was that dysgraphia, Asperger's Syndrome, and various other impairments are defined as having deficient motor skills, poor dexterity, poor hand-eye coordination, poor balance, tandem gait, or apraxia.

    I don't know that's why these kids lost. But that they were students of a school that specializes in education for children that have these impairments seems very pertinent. I would have a number of opinions to share about how the game played out, but it's difficult to justify any personal position about the "game" if the players weren't appropriately matched to begin with. In truth, I just don't know, but I hope the schools at least take another look at the student players' match-ups and determine the level of skill/challenge appropriateness.
    Last edited by iwakar; 01-23-2009 at 11:40 PM. Reason: fixed quote
    "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and greater things." - Rainer Maria Rilke

  2. #42
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    Yes.

    A win that preserves the other team's sense of self-worth is still a win. I'm not saying they should play beneath their ability just to let the other team have a chance (which would be condescending), but a slaughter like that is perverse.
    And apparently the only way to have prevented that slaughter would have been to play beneath their ability.

    It's one or the other. I choose slaughter.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #43
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    I think their attitude bothers me more than the margin by which they won. It's not just about the points.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm very competitive IRL and will play to win. But what do you do if the person you are with cannot compete with you? You teach them.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    This is like when I play basketball against my 3 and 4 year old female cousins. Do I take it easy on them? Hell no. I block nearly 99% of their shots, steal the ball from them constantly (when they're not getting called for traveling), foul or goal tend when I think it'll prevent them from scoring, and dribble over their heads. I think that's all part of trying to give them an opportunity to improve their game and give them a standard of excellence to strive for. It also exposes them to dirty tactics they'll experience on the court later, like charging and offensive fouls. I can't help it if I'm a natural teacher, y'know?
    This reminds me of that South Park episode where Stan is coaching a pee-wee hockey team and they end up playing the Detroit Red Wings in place of the Colorado Avalanche for one period. The score was tied 2-2 at the beginning of the period and it ended up being something like 92-2, with the Red Wings physically crushing all the kids and celebrating like they won the Stanley Cup at the end.

    It was a game that should have never been played. If you don't want to lose 100-0, play better or don't play.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #45
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    I think their attitude bothers me more than the margin by which they won. It's not just about the points.
    There. I'm glad you said this. I think this is where I was getting hung up. It sounds like they all just got so caught up in the thrill of a big win that they were less than gracious about their obviously easy win. Easy to do when you are in a group of people. The "mob mentality" thing. That was the part which was disturbing.

    And the other disturbing thing was that it seems that it was a poor idea to begin with. Or perhaps not well enough thought out and prepared for. Again takes the whole thing out of the sports concept.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #46
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Nah, the winning team can forfeit too. That really makes a statement.
    All right, all right--you're a little more clever than I thought. Nice
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #47
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    There. I'm glad you said this. I think this is where I was getting hung up. It sounds like they all just got so caught up in the thrill of a big win that they were less than gracious about their obviously easy win. Easy to do when you are in a group of people. The "mob mentality" thing. That was the part which was disturbing.

    And the other disturbing thing was that it seems that it was a poor idea to begin with. Or perhaps not well enough thought out and prepared for. Again takes the whole thing out of the sports concept.
    Makes sense. To really make a determination here I think we'd need more info on the actual attitudes expressed by the winning team during the game. The winning team can't really suggest a forfeit at half time without being insulting, even if it's obvious the game is not going to end in a shocking upset.

    As long as they treated their opponents respectfully and didn't say/do anything intended to mock or deride them for losing, I don't see why they shouldn't perform their best.

    Jennifer--

    I don't think that Christian ideals are inherently incompatible with sports excellence, just with sports arrogance/rudeness toward obviously inferior teams. The article doesn't say much about the personal attitudes the winning team expressed toward the losing one; it just repeatedly talks about how inconsiderate it was for them to keep scoring so much. I wouldn't go that far, but they do need to make sure they're not being total dicks about winning.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #48
    Member Nickels's Avatar
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    {deleted}
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 01-25-2009 at 07:09 PM. Reason: removed insult

  9. #49
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    I think their attitude bothers me more than the margin by which they won. It's not just about the points.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm very competitive IRL and will play to win. But what do you do if the person you are with cannot compete with you? You teach them.
    First of all, this is some kind of circuit, isn't it? The team can't really stick around and teach the other team in depth, it's not feasible. They certainly weren't going to teach the other team in the middle of the game.

    That being said, I think there is something to be learned from losing in a 100 points shut-out. Additionally, while certain strategic and tactical knowledge is important, I find that developing game skill often comes from trying your best against tougher opponents. You lose, but you get tougher.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #50
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickels View Post
    {deleted}
    Ouch, Nickels! Please don't include me in your majority of one. Whaddya doin' Dude? Passin' on some of that hostility you were subject to when you came in?

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    This thread reminded me of something which happened in my family before I was born. My cousin was the town's shining football hero. They had an intense rivalry with the closest town to us. One year they were trouncing the opposing team and the coach told my cousin to walk the ball across the line and lay it down with a flourish.

    He did as he was told.

    I never knew why my very strongly principled father would sometimes give a wince when my cousin's name was mentioned. I knew that he thought very highly of him.

    My cousin, who is now in his seventies, told this story at a lunch we had together recently. He said my dad never knew that he was following coach's orders. And dad had sat him down one day after the game and gave him a lecture on good sportsmanship. Said he was ashamed to see a young man of such talent act so arrogantly. Cousin said he had never told dad that he was "following orders" and wishes now that he had told him.

    Funny after all these years that something like that should still carry a strong value to someone.

    It was a poignant story to me of the value of responsibility those who excell do well to shoulder.
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 01-25-2009 at 07:10 PM. Reason: removed insult
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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