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  1. #1
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Default The Artist's Worse Obstacle

    Quote Originally Posted by Art & Fear
    A finished piece is, in effect, a test of correspondence between imagination and execution. And perhaps surprisingly, the more common obstacle to achieving that correspondence is not undisciplined execution, but undisciplined imagination.

    It's altogether too seductive to approach your proposed work believing your materials to be more malleable than they really are, your ideas more compelling, your execution more refined.

    As Stanly Kunitz once commented, "The poem in your head is always perfect. Resistance begins when you try to convert it into language."

    ...The artist's life is frustrating not because the passage is slow, but because he imagines it to be fast.
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    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Senior Member raincrow007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
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    God, who writes this fluffy crap? :rolli:


    When I work, I work. When I don't, I don't.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raincrow007 View Post
    God, who writes this fluffy crap? :rolli:
    When I work, I work. When I don't, I don't.
    Come on, let that Ne take over!!!

    (And sure, I guess some F would be helpful.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Come on, let that Ne take over!!!

    (And sure, I guess some F would be helpful.)
    Nope. What she said is the way it is.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  5. #5
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    I actually find what this person says intriguing.

    My imagination is undisciplined to the extent that I cannot find a way for execution. I think too much, but I never do. And when I do, I'm unhappy with the "final" product because it's not quite how I conceived it. I find more flaws when I put ideas down on paper.

    I can relate a lot to what I think this person is talking about. I guess it's my overdeveloped Ni.

    It seems Ne's are better at creative expression than anyone. Ni's, on the other hand, are often cursed of living in an internal world that's hard for them to express.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    It seems Ne's are better at creative expression than anyone. Ni's, on the other hand, are often cursed of living in an internal world that's hard for them to express.
    Actually, I would consider INxJs to be the quintessential "deep artists."

    There is definitely a problem with the imagination, according to the quote, not limiting itself. And what INxJs are good at is (1) having an internal vision and (2) putting arbitrary boundaries on it so that it might be enacted.

    I think Ne creates MORE problems because it's not a closure oriented function. If I try to externalize a vision, Ne keeps pushing the boundaries wider and wider, rather than helping me limit them. This is usually why I give up -- I don't have very fully developed external judging skills when it comes to art expression. I can't put arbitrary limits on things.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    I see what you mean, but when Ni is dominant, there could be a tendency to nurture that function at the expense of all others, leaving Te or Fe underdeveloped and therefore, less able to express the Ni visions.

    Likewise, if Ne is overdeveloped, there could be that risk of overdoing things, as you said. In this case, a more developed Ti or Fi function will help limit things, in your case, by using Ti to analyze what you've created and ask yourself when you should stop.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    My imagination is undisciplined to the extent that I cannot find a way for execution. I think too much, but I never do. And when I do, I'm unhappy with the "final" product because it's not quite how I conceived it. I find more flaws when I put ideas down on paper.
    I can relate to that. Specifically the issue of flaws becoming more apparent outside ones head. Whenever I start to draw something, the idea is too vague to translate, so I end up improvising fractions of it; all the details of my vision which don't occur to me until I am sitting there obligated to "execute" the drawing, and make it compatible as an image that makes clear sense.

    The good thing about improving that situation is it'll just be a matter of doing, if it truly is an undisciplined vision at fault. Repetition (plus practicing the fundamentals, principals, tricks of the trade, etc) is the only way to crafting visions which you’ll habitually intuit to be more execution friendly.

    Just to improve, I sometimes have to stop myself from looking at completed work for too long. I’ll get this urgent feeling as though I’ll discover something wrong with it and get discouraged.

    I try to notice the improvement or ‘how often’ I’m making art, by looking at my own stuff only sometimes, and in bunches (not just one artwork). It helps me validate the “OK, I’m actually a pretty good artist” feeling, and makes it harder to relentlessly critique single things, as I have no choice but to rate them as a handful and go “Sweet! Look what I’ve done so far” which cancels out most inhibition.

    "A want fastened, wants annihilation."

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