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  1. #1
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    Default popular conception of great art?

    it bothers me greatly that modern artists, specifically comic book artists are not given enough credit for their work. i know immediately most people who read that sentence are laughing, hearing the term comic book instantly carries with it some sort of immature childish vibe. but as someone who considers himself a very knowledgable artist (know the principles the fundamentals, the radicals, etc etc) the best comic book artists in the world should receive just as much credit for their artistic mastery as rembrandt and the masters of old should for their work.

    of course there are bad comic book artists. but there are bad classical painters too. If you check out the work of of Joe Madureira (whom i consider the best of all) and rembrandt (whom i consider the greatest painter of all time and the most innovative artist in history) you will realize that both men have a mastery of their craft. the subject matter is certainly different, the style and execution is different, but the skill and innovation in both artists is of the highest caliber. Todd McFarlane and Marc Silvestri are no different. Some of Whilce Portacio's best stuff is phenomenal as well. The point is, without going into the details of each artist here, I simply feel that, many comic book greats should be considered among the greatest artists. . . ever.
    if you want images an explanations just ask, if you want to argue, you can go ahead and do that too, but you will not win.

    also ill be putting up my own gallery shortly, in case anyone is interested.

  2. #2
    Kickin' Ass since 1984 GargoylesLegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GorillaGorilla View Post
    it bothers me greatly that modern artists, specifically comic book artists are not given enough credit for their work. i know immediately most people who read that sentence are laughing, hearing the term comic book instantly carries with it some sort of immature childish vibe. but as someone who considers himself a very knowledgable artist (know the principles the fundamentals, the radicals, etc etc) the best comic book artists in the world should receive just as much credit for their artistic mastery as rembrandt and the masters of old should for their work.
    I VERY agree to your Statement!
    As soon as you tell People you read Comic-Books they will do this weird Smile Thing, which is like a Mixture between a taking Pity- and "He is so insane"-Thing.
    I seriously like some of the Comic Books out there. Some People do great Jobs and you are right, it IS Art and it SHOULD be given Credit to.
    Actually, I just got myself the new Gargoyles Comics yesterday. They rock. So do quite a few other Comics!

    Quote Originally Posted by GorillaGorilla View Post
    also ill be putting up my own gallery shortly, in case anyone is interested.
    Oh oh! I would be interested! I love to see Art, especially from "normal People" (normal as in: People who I can get in Touch with and who aren't well-know YET ^^)

  3. #3
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    ill be sure to link you then when im up and running.

  4. #4

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    It's just a matter of time. These things take a LONG time. Classical painting has a five hundred year head start on comic books. But you can tell the process is already starting. Graphic novels are being taken seriously.

    Many modern arts are currently not getting the acclaim they eventually will. Cinema, television, and popular music have only recently (last 30 years or so) begun to be taken seriously. Comic books and CG art are probably next in line after that.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  5. #5
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    you certainly have a point there. and i want to add, i dont feel that being mega famous makes something good, far from it. something good should just be taken seriously, or rather, not degraded. like if someone sees some great graphic novel art, they might say oh that looks good, but they never will view it in the same light as say the art of some 16th century painter. and thats nonsense.

    but yeah you have a point, plus its an Si world we live in, and whatever they latch onto grows. . .

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    Kickin' Ass since 1984 GargoylesLegacy's Avatar
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    It's just a matter of time. These things take a LONG time. Classical painting has a five hundred year head start on comic books.
    Very true! And yet, People are just too judgy Sometimes. But ah well, SOME Day they will appreciate and aknowledge that fine Art. At least I have already seen big Improvement on Manga and similar over here in only a few Years.
    When I was in my Teen-Age Everyone was laughing and picking at me because I liked Comics and Manga, now sloooooowly it got better. So yeah, all a Matter of Patience, really.

    Oh and thanks GorillaGorilla! Really looking forward!!

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    Video game developers are totally unappreciated.

    People like Ray Harryhausen and Willis O'Brien should be considered, too.

  8. #8
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    Since I can remember there has always been this kooky divide between so-called "fine art" and "genre" art. I agree that it should all be looked at as either "good art" or ""bad art" or other distinctions of that sort.

    I grew up loving comic books, but I mostly stopped reading current issues by the early 1970's. It seemed like the better artists were leaving the world of comic books ( due to various restrictions they had to put up with there, as well as the changing nature of how comics were distributed, and how much money was there to motivate them going beyond just doing a good splash page ) and going to paperback covers and other such things.

    But comic books soldiered on, and what I noticed about the modern comics was not so much good art, but rather writing that was far more original than what was in the comics of my day. It was not just funny cartoons or super heroes and spooky stories, but a lot of other material that was often more like real life, or at least was more informed by that. ( Just as Marvel Comics went one step beyond DC in that respect, these comics went beyond what Marvel was doing. )

    I also see this phenomenon in music, where people will recommend a band to me, and I'll think the music is so-so, but they'll point out the lyrics as being especially original or incisive.

    I can't say that I enjoy much of the art in manga for example, but it's neat to see it garnering popularity for comics. They sometimes do a good job on the buildings and environment, but those characters with the big eyes that look like old Astroboy or Speed Racer leave me flat. When people say they like Manga, I have to assume they are either talking about the writing or about stuff that I haven't seen yet.

    The artists that I admired most in comics, coming up in the 60's, were Jack Kirby, Murphy Anderson, Steve Ditko, and the revolutionary Jim Steranko; the latter who I've been fortunate to get to know personally. Jim ushered in a new age of comics by applying concepts used in film and advertising to cartoons, as well as being top notch in anatomy and other basics. Jim is/was also a stage magician and illusionist himself, and so he could add a lot of verisimilitude to stories about fantastic escapes etc.

    I really liked some of Ian Miller's "psychedelic" Swamp Thing covers, done for some issues when Alan Moore was revamping the magazine with his "new school" original writing. Miller did covers but I don't think he did interiors. He also did a lot of work for RPG gaming, and Sci-Fi/Fantasy magazine covers. I actually prefer his "genre" work to his "fine arts" work, as he changes his subject matter and approach a good deal when approaching the latter. ( Why no monsters allowed in "Fine Art" ? )

    Some people think that, eventually; the system used in comics, which shows the action in each panel mostly being separated by enough time that different views appear on each one, will go away and just be replaced by full animation video for computer screens or theater screens. I was at a panel discussing this, and a number of artists and fans disagreed, just as video didn't kill radio but just added its input as an alternative.

    There are certain aspects of storytelling that are allowed for by the "old fashioned" method that may keep the format alive, just as there are things one can do with text that can't be done easily with movies. If you've ever read the book "The Other", you'll realize that the way they orchestrated the surprise ending there, would be hard to do in a film. ( Yes, I'm aware that a film adaptation of "The Other" was made. )

    When I read the thread title, I didn't realize that it was going to be about new attitudes towards "popular graphics", and I thought it was going to be something dry re: "What is art, anyway?" kind of thing. That would be OK too, but I'm pleased to be able to throw my 2 cents behind a comics/cartooning appreciation.

    Maybe some new form of popular art will come along too, just as cartoons did at the turn of the last century. Perhaps some melding of games/pattern recognition and cartoons/art, ( with music ) that is all based on choices the viewer can make. It's interesting to see that what some artists are doing now is providing "tools" ( including snippets and segments of "content" among these things still seen as tools ) that a viewer can assemble him/her-self in whatever sequence they prefer. Right now this is done more in the music world, but all of these "worlds" are converging.
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
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  9. #9
    Kickin' Ass since 1984 GargoylesLegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Video game developers are totally unappreciated
    Good Point, actually. It's true, many Developers aren't really taken serious, even if they do great Works. It's freaking scary how awesome realistic the Stuff looks already and how good the Stories are.

  10. #10
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    to uber, youre right video game artists should be considered too.

    to kuranes, you are certainly right about steranko, kirby, and ditko, those are some a-grade guys. and in terms of writing, yes comic book writers progressed immensely since the 70s.

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