Who sucks?

[colmena]

I actually found Tokyo Story beautiful, but a little underwhelming. I am more of a Mizoguchi man than an Ozu man.

I haven't seen any of Mizoguchi's films (there's still time:D), nor much at all of vintage Japanese cinema. Sansho the Bailiff has a crazy high PSI and sounds a fine premise. I'll have a look on veoh for some of his films or buy Sansho after City Lights. Ta, PM.


paulofilmo's Film Rankings at Criticker (http://www.criticker.com/resource/13821/allrankings_special.html)


Sorry about Rashomon. Bad mood, I guess.

[pure_mercury]

I haven't seen any of Mizoguchi's films (there's still time:D), nor much at all of vintage Japanese cinema. Sansho the Bailiff has a crazy high PSI and sounds a fine premise. I'll have a look on veoh for some of his films or buy Sansho after City Lights. Ta, PM.


paulofilmo's Film Rankings at Criticker (http://www.criticker.com/resource/13821/allrankings_special.html)


Sorry about Rashomon. Bad mood, I guess.

I like Ugetsu just slightly more than Sansho the Bailiff, but they are both stone-cold classics.

[Uberfuhrer]

I'm pretty sure he has my worst director average on Criticker:


Michael Bay
Biography: No information [Submit a Biography]
Total Films at Criticker: 7 - You've Seen 4
Your Average Rating: 22.75

Films you've ranked... As Director (4)

Bad Boys (1995) - 33

Armageddon (1998) - 28

The Rock (1996) - 24
Probably the most overrated film ever made. If you can get past the terrible acting, script and plot, you'll be staring at the back of your TV.

Pearl Harbor (2001) - 6

/100

Well, I'll give you Pearl Harbor, although you can't deny that the effects in that film were absolutely amazing.

I enjoyed both Bad Boys films, Bad Boys 2 even more because it was just so gratuitously violent, and it had the kind of stuff I always dreamed of seeing in an action flick.

I enjoyed Armageddon because it was entertaining, although it shouldn't have taken itself so seriously with the whole love story. It was, overall, exactly what one should expect from a summer popcorn flick and then some.

But Bay's best films were the ones he made with Dreamworks, such as The Island and Transformers, both of which were well above-average. Curiously, however, those two films had a bit more of a Spielberg tone to them, seeing how he was the executive producer for them.

* * * * *

Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl and Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End were both highly overrated, but for some reason, I loved Dead Man's Chest, it must have been because of all the stunning technical innovations and imaginative creature designs.

As far as the innovative water simulations in At World's End, I would have to say that the best digital water simulations of that year were included in Evan Almighty.

Let's see, what else?

The movie Crash is ridiculously overrated. I couldn't even sit through it.

I Am Legend is another overrated film that took itself way too seriously. It should have been a comedy (whereas I, Robot should have been more serious).

* * * * *

In terms of video games:

The Halo and Gears of War franchise are both highly overrated. Haven't played Mass Effect or Assassin's Creed but I'm sure they're equally overrated.

And despite being a big fan of the series as a whole, Grand Theft Auto IV was extremely overrated. I enjoyed the game, but it's hardly the 10/10 perfect score that Gamespot gave it. I gave it an 8.5/10, and stated how I thought Saints Row was a far more inventive game.

Multiplayer gameplay is also very overrated, and personally, I find it boring.

[MacGuffin]

I also wish to defend the honor of Citizen Kane. I think it's one of those movies that's every bit as good as its reputation proclaims it to be. Admittedly, not everyone likes the same thing. Part of what makes it a great movie is the fact that Welles did some groundbreaking camera angles and directing choices that changed cinema thereafter. I watched a movie called RKO 281, about Welles and how he made that movie, and then immediately afterward attended a showing of CK on the big screen in NYC. (I think it was an HBO-made thing, with Liev Scrieber.) First of all, it's a completely different movie when you see it as it's meant to be seen. It completely envelops you, because of the mood he creates right from the beginning. But having some insight into the things that he did that no one else had done before him, and the things he had to fight to do to even get the movie made? It really tranforms the experience. I'm not saying you have to like it, but it doesn't suck.

Exactly--the Beatles' influence has so completely saturated everything that came after it that it's nearly impossible for those of us that didn't live through that era to realize just how new and groundbreaking they were when they came out. I love early Beatles stuff especially because they had that raw, live, frenzied sound, instead of the careful-sounding stuff that usually came out of studio recordings. I love John/Paul's harmonies, and I love the deceptively simple lyrics over complex chord structures.

I freaking love To Kill a Mockingbird. I think it's one of the best books ever written--I marvel at the craft of that book, and it's one of the few books that have ever moved me to tears.

Hi. Will you marry me?

[Silently Honest]

In terms of video games:

The Halo and Gears of War franchise are both highly overrated. Haven't played Mass Effect or Assassin's Creed but I'm sure they're equally overrated.
I agree for the most part, Mass Effect could be longer, same goes for most Bioware games, and Assassin's Creed wasn't all that special after playing for an hour or two.

I don't think any of those games suck however, though yes do recieve more praise then they deserve.

[LadyJaye]

If we judged all artists and thinkers by their personal lives there wouldn't be much work left to be admired.

John Lennon is not my hero or my role model, so I can dislike him as much as I want. There are human foibles that accompany everyone, but I found him very pretentious, preachy and intractable for a guy who had very few and shifting views on life. Not admirable.

[Night]

John Lennon is not my hero or my role model, so I can dislike him as much as I want. There are human foibles that accompany everyone, but I found him very pretentious, preachy and intractable for a guy who had very few and shifting views on life. Not admirable.

John Lennon was a self-righteous douchebag.

Less preaching, more reading. Many of his political attacks lacked merit.

[LadyJaye]

John Lennon was a self-righteous douchebag.

Less preaching, more reading. Many of his political attacks lacked merit.

I don't think I could possibly love you more than I do right now.

[MacGuffin]

Instant karma's gonna get you.

[heart]

John Lennon was a self-righteous douchebag.

Less preaching, more reading. Many of his political attacks lacked merit.

I don't think I could possibly love you more than I do right now.

Aye. Correct on all counts.









Instant karma's gonna get you.

I'm lost in dream number nine...I won't care.

[LadyJaye]

Instant karma's gonna get you.

What if I deflect it off on you? I mean, the cosmos might let me....

[heart]

John Lennon was a self-righteous douchebag.

Less preaching, more reading. Many of his political attacks lacked merit.

Emerson is SO >>>>>>>> Thoreau!

MORE FISTICUFFS!!

Emerson wanted to engage the culture more, to live within culture and be a positive force while not letting one's self become taken over by it and Thoreau seemed more to think that this was impossible, that we need to turn our backs on the culture and go inwards to find ourselves.

Emerson seemed more ENFJ and Thoreau more INFP, just my opinion.

[Tallulah]

John Lennon is not my hero or my role model, so I can dislike him as much as I want. There are human foibles that accompany everyone, but I found him very pretentious, preachy and intractable for a guy who had very few and shifting views on life. Not admirable.

John Lennon was a self-righteous douchebag.

Less preaching, more reading. Many of his political attacks lacked merit.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree here. Really, I can only take Lennon or McCartney as a pair. Individually, I'm not a fan of either one.

This is a personal one, but if I never hear Imagine again, it will be too soon. Not that it's a bad song, but that people act like it's the be-all, end-all song of the world, and every sucky artist in the universe feels it's their personal duty to cover it.

[heart]

This is a personal one, but if I never hear Imagine again, it will be too soon. Not that it's a bad song, but that people act like it's the be-all, end-all song of the world, and every sucky artist in the universe feels it's their personal duty to cover it.

Yes, I agree. I don't like it for the very same reasons.

"We Are World" ended up that way too.

[LadyJaye]

This is a personal one, but if I never hear Imagine again, it will be too soon. Not that it's a bad song, but that people act like it's the be-all, end-all song of the world, and every sucky artist in the universe feels it's their personal duty to cover it.


Would it redeem the song for you somehow if someone else sang it? Perhaps, Sally Field?

[heart]

Would it redeem the song for you somehow if someone else sang it? Perhaps, Sally Field?

How about a three-way sing-a-long of it by Sally Field, Michelle Pfeiffer and Sally Struthers.

[pure_mercury]

Emerson wanted to engage the culture more, to live within culture and be a positive force while not letting one's self become taken over by it and Thoreau seemed more to think that this was impossible, that we need to turn our backs on the culture and go inwards to find ourselves.

Emerson seemed more ENFJ and Thoreau more INFP, just my opinion.

I really liked Thoreau's attitude about power, in general. He was completely cynical about authority and all non-voluntary association, so that really speaks to me as someone who feels quite similar (but who, personality-wise, would prefer to be someone within the power structure, but delimiting it). I dig the air of melancholic irascibility.

"I heartily accept the motto,—“That government is best which governs least;” and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which I also believe,—“That government is best which governs not at all;” and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have. Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient." :heart:

[Martoon]

Y'know, I didn't really see a point in posting here, since I generally just ignore things I don't like, and I'm pretty apathetic about who else likes them or how overrated they are. But after reading over the thread, I realized there are, in fact, things that bug me. Yay, pathos.

(Disclaimer: Everything I say here is ultimately subjective, and I make no claims otherwise.)

Did you not notice there were fisticuffs?!
Commas. Stop teasing me with your complex ways, you vagarious minxes.
QFLOL

Raymond's brother was Eeyore written for adults who think like children...
Okay, I actually like ELR, but that was beautiful. :D


Also? Sally Field sucks. I hate her little scrunchy face as much as Pink hates Redford.
Can't really say I'm a fan of Sally, either, but lulah, your insatiably seething contempt for her amuses me immensely. She seems rather innocuous to me. Is there some childhood trauma we should know about?

morons, racists, or ignorant.
Redundant, redundant, redundant (well, okay, there's a subtle difference between 1 and 3, but #2 covers both of those).

I wouldn't knock it until you've seen Takahata's best films (Only Yesterday, Grave of The Fireflies).

The rest I can take or leave (usually leave).

Mature Content | Veoh Video Network (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6575495Gcd4cR5x?rank=1&jsonParams=%7B%22numResults%22%3A20%2C%22rlmin%22% 3A3600%2C%22query%22%3A%22grave+of+the+fireflies%2 2%2C%22rlmax%22%3Anull%2C%22veohOnly%22%3Atrue%2C% 22contentRatingId%22%3A2%2C%22order%22%3A%22defaul t%22%2C%22range%22%3A%22a%22%2C%22sId%22%3A%228239 58911566248405%22%7D&searchId=823958911566248405&rank=2)
I gotta agree with colmena on the anime. It's a medium independent of the content, and it just happens that the majority of the content is either bad or really bad.

Just like I would say that television sucks, because the majority of what's on does nothing for me. But there are a few things scattered in there that are really good. Likewise for anime.

And I defy anyone having the slightest glimmer of anything resembling humanity buried somewhere in their soul to watch Grave of the Fireflies without crying. I'm serious.


Regarding Bollywood stuff, I'm sure I could never sit through the full 2 or 3 hours of a film. But there's something about the particular type of cheesy melodrama, the little romance between the hero and heroine as they invariably dance toward each other, that's charming to me. It's cute.


How about video-games?
Halo and Grand Theft Auto.
Seconded. Especially GTA and it's cheap path to fame via lame controversial content. I'd also throw in a whole lot of uninspired, derivative first-person shooters. Give people the opportunity for shootin' at folk, and they get instantly stupid and will pay for the same thing, over and over.


I'd also second:
KISS. The music itself is almost upbeat and skippy, which just makes them seem silly(er).
The Beatles. They had a few really good songs, for which the acclaim is appropriate, but then a whole lot of trite, weak numbers. And yeah, they sound more pedestrian today because we've heard so much that's influenced by them, but even in that context, they had a lot of songs that just lacked anything.
Ayn Rand. A few good seeds of truth there (the basic idea of not compromising who you are to cater to popular opinion and fads), but she's just way too extreme and unbalanced. And not anywhere near as rational as she'd like to believe. And the randroids that follow her are worse.
LOTR. A gifted writer, I'm sure, but way over-hyped. Admittedly, a lot of this is just my personal taste, since the whole medieval/magic setting just doesn't appeal to me.
Sex and the City. 'nuff said.
Screaming death metal. But I think that's a given.
Dana Carvey movies. Especially Master of Disguise. How do movies like that even happen? But I can't say I was a big fan of Wayne's World, either.
Most of SNL and Mad TV. There are a handful of really classic things, several so-so things, and than a whole lot of stuff that feels like the cast getting slightly drunk and pretending they're funny while the audience plays along.
J.K. Rowling. She's fairly imaginative, and the movies can be somewhat entertaining to watch (largely due to a generous effects budget), but the extremity of her success seems strange to me. And there's this weird point-of-pride thing in adults saying how much they like Harry Potter. I don't get it.
We Are the World. Absolutely. What an incredibly bland, droning song that, hey, must be good because everyone's in it.


And I'll add, in no particular order:
Piers Anthony. The guy cranks out a book every three weeks, and apparently has a world full of fans. I tried reading one of these once, and it read like, well, something that had been cranked out in three weeks. Throw in a sprinkling of blatantly gratuitous semi-eroticism, and you you've got yourself a best seller. I made it about a fourth of the way in, and couldn't take any more.
A lot of (but certainly not all) "classic" literature. Sure, there's been worst stuff since, but there are a lot of awful books that have been granted "classic" status, so we collectively agree that they're great works. And yes, Jane Eyre. Icky.
18th and 19th century period films that consist of snooty characters wearing really uncomfortable clothing. All the time. Even doing things outside. And everyone always speaks in these carefully measured tones, using painfully elaborate language no matter what the conversation is. They all just seem so constricted and formal, all the time, that my neck and shoulders start to tense up just watching them. And the Scarlet Pimpernel really annoys me. "Is he in heaven? Or is he in hell? That damned elusive Pimpernel" (spoken in a self-important, somewhat effete tone). Then everyone laughs and applauds, like something incredibly clever has been said. Did I miss something?
Little Man Tate. Only because this was such a beautiful concept for a film, but was so cheesy and contrived in it's execution.
Star Trek (oh, I'm goin' down now). This show, in all it's various incarnations, is harmless, so I would just ignore it. But as somewhat of a geek, I'm somehow expected to rave about it. And it just does nothing for me. Really flimsy characters who are basically designed to fill some role. And that's all they do. And it's way too predictable and safe. Lacks any semblance of grit or humanity.
Michael Moore. I don't necessarily disagree with everything he says (but don't necessarily agree with it all, either). But he has such cheap ways of saying it.
Bill Maher. The pretense of rational discussion, but he just does a lot of forceful reiterating.
Rush Limbaugh. Don't even know where to start. So I won't.
80's action cartoons. Cartoons are good because they're funny. These weren't.
Gas pumps where you set the handle lock thingy so you don't have to keep holding the handle, but the pump nozzle overflow detector is too sensitize, so it keeps shutting off. I hate that.
Girls Gone Wild videos. No, I don't think anyone is defending those or claiming them as great works, but I just get so sick of so many commercials, over and over, for something so insipid.
The Grinch movie. Dr. Seuss would be appalled. Actually, Ron Howard, et al, hounded his widow relentlessly until she finally caved and gave the rights. I'm sure she hated herself when she saw the final product.
Angelina Jolie. I don't get it. Not attractive, just somewhat funny looking to me. And yet she's somehow firmly established as being supremely hot. In any cliche reference needing an "obviously" super-hot woman, it's always Angelina's name that gets plugged in. Somehow, I'm missing the obvious.

There. I think I'm done now.

[heart]

Gosh Matoon is the best hater!

The best and tightly phrased justifications for his hate of anyone in this thread.

I'm in awe at how poorly I hate in comparison and here I thought I was so adept.

I am really, really into period pieces but I loathe the Scarlet Pimpernel.

[colmena]

And I defy anyone having the slightest glimmer of anything resembling humanity buried somewhere in their soul to watch Grave of the Fireflies without crying. I'm serious.

From my favourite reviewer:

Surely anime's greatest triumph, "...Fireflies" IS nonetheless manipulative, it is not "anti-war" (whatever that means), and I wouldn't call it "depressing" either. It's beyond poignant however; an amazingly beautiful tragedy, woven with maybe the most affecting, poetic animated language ever constructed. When the tragedy comes, questions of fault seem beside the real point; whilst the firefly may die so soon, the images of its glowing will live on til the end of time.

As many have said, it's anime for those who don't like anime. It's diligently realist, but live-capture could never have been so affecting. As though the facade of animation is required to be able to deal with the subject matter.

There's also plenty of subtext to ponder over afterwards. I highly recommend getting the special edition DVD as it provides historical context as well as interviews with Takahata and acclaimed critic, Roger Ebert.

[PinkPiranha]

That Martoon! Gold-medal hater!

[Ivy]

Re: Thoreau. I'm sorry, camping a mile and a half from civilization (on land owned by Emerson, btw) does not self-reliance make. And it's easy to protest taxation and spend the night in jail when you have a rich aunt who can just pay them for you.

I actually like his spunk. He's just overhyped and idealized, IMO. Like most literary figures and artists. I think we just need to be careful not to turn them into gods. Emerson is assailable, I just have a personal affection for him that goes beyond the literature.

[pure_mercury]

Re: Thoreau. I'm sorry, camping a mile and a half from civilization (on land owned by Emerson, btw) does not self-reliance make. And it's easy to protest taxation and spend the night in jail when you have a rich aunt who can just pay them for you.

I like Thoreau more than Emerson because of the ideas and the literary style. I try not to lionize or criticize artists based on their lifestyles (it makes for interesting ways to appreciate their work, but it's ultimately tertiary, at best). That's why I never understood the Hunter S. Thompson love from the college set. I know the guy did a massive amount of drugs, but I doubt they have read anything besides Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (and possibly The Kentucky Derby Is Depraved and Decadent, which I really enjoyed). They like the maniac persona.

[Martoon]

Gosh Matoon is the best hater!
Ummm... thanks, I think. Not really a title I want. I didn't get involved in this thread for a long time, because I didn't feel that I'm that invested as a hater (I excel in apathy), and I saw the cost/benefit analysis of ranting on things that don't happen to appeal to me, but have no practical bearing on my life, as having a negative-sum result. It comes at the cost of offending (sometimes even hurting) people who happen to like some of these things, often to the point of being quite personally invested. And I can't really come up with a benefit.

I guess what I'm saying is, I really hate it when people do this. You all suck. Big time. ;) <-- (Please note the winking smiley, indicating that this is said in jest. Very affectionate jest, in fact. I love you guys. See? No smiley there. I'm serious.)

But I thought I'd play along and give it a shot, and I'm a little surprised at what came out.

The best and tightly phrased justifications for his hate of anyone in this thread.
That I have to disagree with. There have been several posts in this thread that have much more eloquently made their point than mine did. And in any case, they're all trumped by Ivy's Fisticuffs of Inescapable Doom. Which in turn shrinks into the vanishing point next to the galaxy-consuming, white-hot, mind-rending cries of rage of a myriad hellspawns that is lulah's loathing of Ms. Field.

I'm in awe at how poorly I hate in comparison and here I thought I was so adept.
Also inaccurate. You are a class A hater. I mean that.

I am really, really into period pieces
Lol. Somehow, that doesn't surprise me. Possibly informed by every avatar you've ever had.

How about a three-way sing-a-long of it by Sally Field, Michelle Pfeiffer and Sally Struthers.
Wow. Just... wow. Okay, that would push me over the edge. Both Sallys, and the Pfeiffer? I must purge this from my mind. And I blame you if I fail.

Emerson is assailable, I just have a personal affection for him that goes beyond the literature.
Ivy and Emerson, sittin' in a tree...

[Ivy]

I like Thoreau more than Emerson because of the ideas and the literary style. I try not to lionize or criticize artists based on their lifestyles (it makes for interesting ways to appreciate their work, but it's ultimately tertiary, at best). That's why I never understood the Hunter S. Thompson love from the college set. I know the guy did a massive amount of drugs, but I doubt they have read anything besides Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (and possibly The Kentucky Derby Is Depraved and Decadent, which I really enjoyed). They like the maniac persona.

IMO you can't divorce the author from the work. It's not the only or even always the most important consideration, but the ideas didn't just appear in a vacuum.

Sign me,
Not a New Critic

[pure_mercury]

IMO you can't divorce the author from the work. It's not the only or even always the most important consideration, but the ideas didn't just appear in a vacuum.

Sign me,
Not a New Critic

I try to focus on the work as much as possible. Especially with music. There are plenty of tools who have made great music, and plenty of nice people who should be silenced forever. Also, the fanbase can be very annoying for artists with some talent (Radiohead, Chuck Palahniuk, Tim Burton, etc). Acknowledge the themes and subtexts, but don't make critical decisions based on perceptions of the artist.

[Ivy]

That said, they ALL have personal foibles and you're correct that it doesn't make sense to demonize them based on those, or elevate them based on their awesome personalities. Still, their lives can be extremely interesting and some of them actually did seem to be larger-than-life.

Hemingway, IMO, is an interesting study in this. Some of his personal details should make him seem like a douche, but the totality of them are so over-the-top that it just adds to a fucking rock star devil-may-care asshole you can't help but adore. (Or I can't, anyway.) Wouldn't have dated or married him if you paid me, but good Lord he was a beautiful jackass.

[pure_mercury]

That said, they ALL have personal foibles and you're correct that it doesn't make sense to demonize them based on those, or elevate them based on their awesome personalities. Still, their lives can be extremely interesting and some of them actually did seem to be larger-than-life.

Hemingway, IMO, is an interesting study in this. Some of his personal details should make him seem like a douche, but the totality of them are so over-the-top that it just adds to a fucking rock star devil-may-care asshole you can't help but adore. (Or I can't, anyway.) Wouldn't have dated or married him if you paid me, but good Lord he was a beautiful jackass.

Good writer, awesomely interesting life. The two are distinct (not totally separate, but still distinct) in my mind.

[Ivy]

I try to focus on the work as much as possible. Especially with music. There are plenty of tools who have made great music, and plenty of nice people who should be silenced forever. Also, the fanbase can be very annoying for artists with some talent (Radiohead, Chuck Palahniuk, Tim Burton, etc). Acknowledge the themes and subtexts, but don't make critical decisions based on perceptions of the artist.

I can ride with this, to a degree, but isn't a work always part of a larger context? Not just the author's life and personality. I find Mary Shelley's life to be fascinating but I can't stand her as an author, for the most part, but at the same time she is an "important" author because of where/when/why she wrote and who she affected, if not a particularly good one IMO.

[Ivy]

Good writer, awesomely interesting life. The two are distinct (not totally separate, but still distinct) in my mind.

Sounds good. I like to think we can consider literature and art using different frameworks for different purposes. If I'm understanding you correctly you're saying you prefer not to evaluate the quality of the work in light of the author's details, and I definitely agree with that. Sometimes the author's details or the context of the work within a culture or canon make work that isn't otherwise all that interesting, worth reading. To me. But it doesn't make it good. See: Paradise Lost.

[pure_mercury]

I can ride with this, to a degree, but isn't a work always part of a larger context? Not just the author's life and personality. I find Mary Shelley's life to be fascinating but I can't stand her as an author, for the most part, but at the same time she is an "important" author because of where/when/why she wrote and who she affected, if not a particularly good one IMO.

Yes and no. I acknowledge work as important and influential that I don't personally enjoy. Television are a very influential band. I don't care much for them. Lots of people hate Ayn Rand (just look at this thread; I am not big on her myself), but she is way more influential in terms of Western society of the last 50 years than all but a handful of writers. And, by all accounts, she was a raging bitch. These aspects don't really enter into my critical faculties when deciding whether something is good or bad, though. That has a different meaning for me. I can also separate between "I like this" and "This is great." They usually coincide, but it's not necessarily so.

[Eileen]

Ayn Rand


Yes.


Richard Dawkins

Yes.


Limerence

Hahaha! Yes.

NPR, in general, sucks.

WRONG!

Garden State sucks.

You are correct. It really does suck. It sucks in a way that makes me deeply sad.

Sufjan Stevens doesn't suck outright, but his vibe smacks of 3rd grade extra credit project, and every damn song sounds exactly like Simon and Garfunkel's "The Boxer."

WRONG! Very wrong! SO WRONG!


Things that are overrated...

Phish
The Grateful Dead
The Lord of the Rings (films and books. I like them well enough but don't get the devoted fandom.)
CS Lewis
Marijuana
LA

[pure_mercury]

NPR? Really? People listen to it all day long at work, and it's a big MEH most of the time.

This American Life Completes Documentation Of Liberal, Upper-Middle-Class Existence | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/news/this_american_life_completes)


And I actually agree with this writer that Sufjan Stevens is to indie rock as Zach Braff is indie film; they aren't terrible, but who decides that they speak to my generation (and, more specifically, to me)? They're precious. I don't like my artists to be precious.

Chicago Maroon | Let's be objective here: Sufjan Stevens sucks. (http://www.chicagomaroon.com/online_edition/article/3973)

"To find the answer, look to Sufjan’s film counterpart in overrated indie stars: Zach Braff. Like Sufjan, Braff has been called the voice of his generation, a title his flick Garden State doesn’t merit. The reason Braff is called that is not because he is the voice of his generation, but because he seems to be. Braff has called himself the voice of his generation, and since he tried to express that in a movie, who are we to question him?"

[Tallulah]

That reminds me. Hemingway. Love some of his short stories, but hate his novels. I want the hours of my life back that I spent reading A Farewell to Arms, hoping against hope that it would get better, since it was a FREAKING CLASSIC. I hated that stupid nurse character that did nothing but call him darling all the time. It's like he'd never met a woman in real life before. He did have a cool house with lots of awesome six toed cats, though.

[pure_mercury]

That reminds me. Hemingway. Love some of his short stories, but hate his novels. I want the hours of my life back that I spent reading A Farewell to Arms, hoping against hope that it would get better, since it was a FREAKING CLASSIC. I hated that stupid nurse character that did nothing but call him darling all the time. It's like he'd never met a woman in real life before. He did have a cool house with lots of awesome six toed cats, though.

It was all overcompensation for the small penis. :happy:

[heart]

Lots of people hate Ayn Rand (just look at this thread; I am not big on her myself), but she is way more influential in terms of Western society of the last 50 years than all but a handful of writers.

If she's responsible for Western society than that's just another reason to dislike her work. She takes a thread of truth and then ruins it by wedding it to her absurd notions.

[pure_mercury]

If she's responsible for Western society than that's just another reason to dislike her work. She takes a thread of truth and then ruins it by wedding it to her absurd notions.

I like her politics, somewhat like her work (The Fountainhead, Anthem, We the Living), but I really dislike the philosophical aspects of Objectivism. And she and her cabal of Objectivists late in her life were a bunch of jerks, pretty much.

[Zergling]

About half to 2/3 the books I had ot read for English classes in school.

[pure_mercury]

I totally did not get why Things Fall Apart was supposed to be so great.

[Martoon]

One I forgot on my list:

Any light pop soul ballad that begins with a mellow electric piano, and female vocalist going, "hoooooooOOOOOooooo, hoooooo hoooooooo" in an airy voice. Which may or may not be followed by a "mmmmmmmm, mmmmmmhhhmmm hhhmmm..."

I think I've just eliminated 22% of popular music over the last couple decades.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Marijuana


Totally depends on what you're smoking.

[Ivy]

I haven't had any in ten years but I aim to retest the notion that pot is overrated in a few weeks when we spend six days in a treehouse for our anniversary.

[Jack Flak]

The greatness of a drug is time dependant. For example, cocaine is the best drug for 30 min, and the worst drug for the next two hours.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

I haven't had any in ten years but I aim to retest the notion that pot is overrated in a few weeks when we spend six days in a treehouse for our anniversary.

Sounds like a wonderfully cool way to spend an anniversary! I hope you have fun and it's as romantic as it sounds...

make sure you don't buy shwag/skunk... I mean, if you're actually going to smoke, try to get pot which has color to it...

A lot of people like trying to debunk the theory that smell and look has anything to do with potency, and without going into correlation-causation relationships, I'll assert that the best weed I've smoked tends to have lighter, brighter green leaves and brightly colored filaments of purple or red... it also smells like a light perfume mixed with bark...







legalize it

[Ivy]

True. Acid was pretty awesome for about six hours, and then abysmal for five years.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

True. Acid was pretty awesome for about six hours, and then abysmal for five years.

ouch

[Ivy]

Sounds like a wonderfully cool way to spend an anniversary! I hope you have fun and it's as romantic as it sounds...

make sure you don't buy shwag/skunk... I mean, if you're actually going to smoke, try to get pot which has color to it...

A lot of people like trying to debunk the theory that smell and look has anything to do with potency, and without going into correlation-causation relationships, I'll assert that the best weed I've smoked tends to have lighter, brighter green leaves and brightly colored filaments of purple or red... it also smells like a light perfume mixed with bark...







legalize it

This is what I've told the old man. I'm not breaking a ten-year streak for sticks and stones.

(I have no idea if "sticks and stones" is valid pot terminology, but it really should be if it's not.)

[Samuel De Mazarin]

This is what I've told the old man. I'm not breaking a ten-year streak for sticks and stones.

(I have no idea if "sticks and stones" is valid pot terminology, but it really should be if it's not.)

Actually, I haven't heard that... usually people say "stems and seeds"/"seeds and stems"... but "sticks and stones" is AWESOME!!!!

:happy2:

I'm stealing it (with due attribution to a nice lady on mbtic)...

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I can't believe I was ready to make Martoon my platonic life partner and then he proceeded to make a hate list that could have doubled as my "favorite things" list. He somewhat salvaged himself at the last minute by hating Angelina Jolie. But the scars are deep, and they are real. KISS forever!

I was going to make a new list of things that suck, but I found a way to sum them all up in one single entry:

Things that college kids like (drinking too much excepted).

[Magic Poriferan]

Totally depends on what you're smoking.

Or, she just honestly is not impressed the inherent qualities of being high on marijuana.

____________

Anyhow, another one to throw on the list: The Catcher in the Rye.
It was a classic, and a subject of controversy, and I'd heard so many people call it their favorite book. So, it really came to my surprise when I read it, just craptacular it was.

I hate the rambling style of following Holden's train of thought, which is made subsantially worse by how much I hate Holden himself. He annoyed the living daylights out of me, and contrary to what so many had said, I never sympathized with him for identified with him, save one part. The actual story being told was fantastically uninteresting. Monumentally uninteresting. I was looking for something all the way to the end, and found that it was just a bunch of nothingness, capped off with just one more statement that made me want to bang Holden's head into a table.

I read Guns, Germs, and Steel in four days. I took several weeks to read The Catcher in the Rye. When you compare the length of the two books, and the fact that the easier one for me was basically a thesis, it says a lot about how bad The Catcher in the Rye seemed to me.

[Magic Poriferan]

I was going to make a new list of things that suck, but I found a way to sum them all up in one single entry:

Things that college kids like (drinking too much excepted).

That's like the first thing that should be put on the list.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Or, she just honestly is not impressed the inherent qualities of being high on marijuana.



Totally true... no thing is universally loved (I'm not talking about abstract qualities like 'love')... but I have found people who smoked shwag and said weed was lame, it made them dizzy for a minute and then they fell asleep.

My mom, on the other hand, who's a teetotaler... she told me about the one time she smoked weed as a young woman (in her early twenties)... she took a hit and then proceeded to have massive panic attacks and thought the world was collapsing... I mean, some people and weed just don't mix.

[lowtech redneck]

How brave. I also like to wait until an opinion has been popular for ten years before I voice agreement. (Ann Coulter is awesome.)

Dude, I'm a liberal-conservative Republican who voted for Bush twice (I always vote with the Supreme Court in mind), and even I think Ann Coulter sucks.

[Jack Flak]

Dude, I'm a liberal-conservative Republican who voted for Bush twice (I always vote with the Supreme Court in mind), and even I think Ann Coulter sucks.
It's not that I agree with her, it's that I find her extremely entertaining. Partly because of her boldness. Note: I do agree with her on approximately 2/3 of the issues on which I've heard her preach.

[Thursday]

me for thinking i was INFP
no offense , night

[lowtech redneck]

Samuel Huntington and the Clash of Civilizations theory: all rhetoric and little justifiable substance. He's helping to create a clash of civilizations by asserting it into being.


His ideas are simplistic and his classifications arbitrary, but there's too much happening for me to completely dismiss him-but I guess that's a debate for another thread.

Edward Said and his Orientalism, on the other hand, sucks balls.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Ann Coulter is one of those people whose personality and presentation are so abrasive and obnoxious that even if you're inclined to be with her philosophically, you find you simply cannot support a position she supports.

[Thursday]

big breasts-overrated

[lowtech redneck]

My mom, on the other hand, who's a teetotaler... she told me about the one time she smoked weed as a young woman (in her early twenties)... she took a hit and then proceeded to have massive panic attacks and thought the world was collapsing... I mean, some people and weed just don't mix.

Agreed, one shouldn't indulge when one has obsessive-compulsive disorder or some other anxiety disorder. Which sucks (to stay on topic), because two-thirds of the time it was an awsome experience.

[Jack Flak]

Ann Coulter is one of those people whose personality and presentation are so abrasive and obnoxious that even if you're inclined to be with her philosophically, you find you simply cannot support a position she supports.
I honestly appreciate her personality. I would marry her in the blink of an eye. She's extremely logical, but the starting points for the conclusions she makes are based on her faith, and therefore unscientific. This amuses me to no end.

[Jack Flak]

big breasts-overrated
I have equal appreciation of gigantic boobs and extremely flat chests, yet average boobs are merely acceptable to me. I find this unusual. I must just have a taste for extremes.

[Thursday]

I have equal appreciation of gigantic boobs and extremely flat chests, yet average boobs are merely acceptable to me. I find this unusual. I must just have a taste for extremes.

looks at your Ne
heheheh

i'd say

[lowtech redneck]

If she's responsible for Western society than that's just another reason to dislike her work. She takes a thread of truth and then ruins it by wedding it to her absurd notions.

Kind of like Communism (or certain other political philosophies that people are sick of derailing threads with), except not nearly as dangerous when taken to extremes-her elitism limits its mass appeal,her individualism limits the cohesion of any potential movement, and she tempers Nietzsche's more unpleasant ideas with J. S. Mill safeguards.

Insomnia sucks.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

His ideas are simplistic and his classifications arbitrary, but there's too much happening for me to completely dismiss him-but I guess that's a debate for another thread.

Edward Said and his Orientalism, on the other hand, sucks balls.

Said's Orientalism threw a light on the massive amount of stereotyping and false assumptions about types of people out there... in an academic setting... yet his books were intellectually available to all...

In fact, Said's Orientalism is one of the few works which set the stage for combating Huntington-style ignorance and unjustified reductionism.

____

Why do you think he and his work suck (balls)?

[lowtech redneck]

Said's Orientalism threw a light on the massive amount of stereotyping and false assumptions about types of people out there... in an academic setting... yet his books were intellectually available to all...

In fact, Said's Orientalism is one of the few works which set the stage for combating Huntington-style ignorance and unjustified reductionism.

____

Why do you think he and his work suck (balls)?

Because he goes much too far in the opposite direction of Huntington. Basically, I believe in the superiority of certain political ideas and institutions (classical liberalism,representative democracy, freedom of speech, religion, equality under the law, etc.) and Said attempted to stigmitize (very successfully, unfortunately) anyone who objected to any aspect of "Eastern" cultures that conflicted with these ideas and institutions. To me, that's like somebody in Europe demonizing anyone who thinks algebra is a good thing because it was invented in the "East" (I actually forget whether it was Persaians or Arabs who first discovered it and when, but I suppose that's not the point). He denigrated the legitimacy of any outsider perspective pertaining to cultural, historical, and contemperary political studies, which I find somewhat hypocritical in someone who thought he could evaluate Western perspectives so thoroughly.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

^

I don't think that was what he was going for... instead, he was countering a dominant trend in "Western" historical, anthropological, philosophical, and political disciplines of trying to fit every one who happened to be geopolitically Arab, Indian, and Chinese into a preconceived notion of what it meant to be from the Orient... which was not all the same thing as his trying to dislocate liberal political institutions, which he valued as much as most intellectuals of our day.

Indeed, you're doing exactly what he was complaining about... slotting "Eastern" culture into a certain mold and drawing big conclusions about what it means to be from this fabricated "Orient".

He also didn't denigrate all outsider perspectives... he denigrated outsider perspectives which came into an alien territory and attempted to fit data into a preconceived schema rather than actually observing what was on the ground and then drawing conclusions... in other words, he was advocating responsible inductive thinking over unrealistic instances of deductive thinking when applied to anthropology and related or overlapping disciplines.

Also, he's not the opposite of Huntington... it's not like he disavows the reality of culture or civilizational zeitgeists... he does, however, object to the traditional views which have ossified and held people's rational thinking about other societies in thrall for the past few centuries...
___

At the risk of sounding know-it-all, I don't think you understand Said at all.

[lowtech redneck]

^

Indeed, you're doing exactly what he was complaining about... slotting "Eastern" culture into a certain mold and drawing big conclusions about what it means to be from this fabricated "Orient".
.

Perhaps you could explain how I am doing this? In the meantime, I'm going to try and get four hours of sleep.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Perhaps you could explain how I am doing this? In the meantime, I'm going to try and get four hours of sleep.

"Said attempted to stigmitize (very successfully, unfortunately) anyone who objected to any aspect of "Eastern" cultures that conflicted with these ideas and institutions."


There're entirely incorrect assumptions here regarding Said's thought...

Said wasn't defending Eastern culture, because he didn't believe there was such a thing as a definitive Eastern culture with a definitive political ideology and a definitive ethico-moral mindset. So for you to say that Said was reflexively complaining about people criticizing "Eastern" cultural ideologies that conflict with "Western" ones is to completely misunderstand his central point, that there was no single Eastern (or Oriental) culture. You do say "aspect of 'Eastern' culture', but the assumption here is that Said was simply acting as a champion of anything which happened to fall under that category (the category being imagined or otherwise).

What Said was really doing was countering the notion that there was a set of "Eastern" beliefs to oppose against "Western" ones, since he (and many others following him) have levied the charge against "Westernism" that all that is West is a piecemeal assemblage of all that was right with European culture, the great philosophers and scientific movements, with convenient omission of anything which went against the central thesis of Western culture. In addition, all that was excluded was heaped into the notion of the Orient, which served as the convenient foil, the Other, against which to define the Self/the West.

Said was very critical of many conservative tendencies that plagued his homeland, such as male chauvinism. He was not a blind lover of all things "Eastern". In fact, he was very much an Arabo-European intellectual who was announcing the obsolescence of an old "Occident-Orient" mode of political and anthropological thinking.

[Magic Poriferan]

Well I smell a thread split.

[Uberfuhrer]

About half to 2/3 All of the books I had to read for English classes in school.

That's how I feel about English class.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Well I smell a thread split.

proteanmix should be here any second now... any second...

any... :sleeping:

[Jen]

thread merging sucks and breaks hearts.

[pure_mercury]

big breasts-overrated

I love your putting "big breasts" in a "Who sucks?" thread. It just SOUNDS as if it should be in Sexuality and Mature Topics.

[pure_mercury]

Joe Lieberman sucks. Matchbox Twenty sucks. Boondock Saints was complete nonsense.

[MacGuffin]

That reminds me. Hemingway. Love some of his short stories, but hate his novels. I want the hours of my life back that I spent reading A Farewell to Arms, hoping against hope that it would get better, since it was a FREAKING CLASSIC. I hated that stupid nurse character that did nothing but call him darling all the time. It's like he'd never met a woman in real life before. He did have a cool house with lots of awesome six toed cats, though.
Those stupid cats are hard to photograph. I'll have to try again this winter.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3175/2390156951_5f657cc3fb.jpg


P.S. KISS sucks. Hard.

[Oberon]

I am not very impressed with myself.

There are lots of artists out there whose work I don't particularly admire, but at least those guys A) finished something, and B) sold it.

Which is more than I have done.

[pure_mercury]

I am not very impressed with myself.

There are lots of artists out there whose work I don't particularly admire, but at least those guys A) finished something, and B) sold it.

Which is more than I have done.

Jeez, by that logic, we can't criticize anyone! What are you trying to do, destroy the Internet?

Humility sucks. :D

[colmena]

I wonder if Al Gore pondered, 'Well at least George could get to power.'

[PinkPiranha]

I cannae tolerate garishly painted houses. They pollute the eye!

[Tallulah]

PDF documents
Any book Oprah recommends
Dr. Phil
Talk radio
People who have seen Mamma Mia and can't shut up about it
Texas summer heat
Those really bleak contemporary novels, ie House of Sand and Fog
Most songs that are used in commercials
Judge Judy

[PinkPiranha]

PDF documents
Any book Oprah recommends
Dr. Phil
Talk radio
People who have seen Mamma Mia and can't shut up about it
Texas summer heat
Those really bleak contemporary novels, ie House of Sand and Fog
Most songs that are used in commercials
Judge Judy

Sally is very disappointed in you. Very.

[Thursday]

Drug Abuse
Blatant and arrogant disrespect of women / children / everyone
Rock&Roll Mentality

[lowtech redneck]

"Said attempted to stigmitize (very successfully, unfortunately) anyone who objected to any aspect of "Eastern" cultures that conflicted with these ideas and institutions."


You do say "aspect of 'Eastern' culture', but the assumption here is that Said was simply acting as a champion of anything which happened to fall under that category (the category being imagined or otherwise).


First of all, I use "cultures" in the plural sense-an important distinction given the fact that you charge me with assuming some kind of monolithic "Eastern" culture. Second, while Huntington was too broad (as well as arbitray) in his definition of cultural groups, its also not very useful to deconstruct aspects of culture to such an extent that no broad causal explanations can be derived. All cultures are fluid and overlap with multiple other cultures-that's pretty much stating the obvious, and dosn't aid the search for answers. Third, Said and his acolytes repeatedly attempted to stigmatize collegues who disagreed with their positions (especially regarding the relative importance of domestic societies and institutions versus Western imperialism regarding modern global inequality) as malicious and ethnocentric hacks who, as part of a dominant cultural group had no business engaging in critical research and analysis on cultures far removed from their own.

[pure_mercury]

Walter Duranty sucked. Abraham Polonsky sucked. Roy Cohn sucked. Van Hagar sucked.

[LadyJaye]

I hate the Cadillac commercials with the fury of a thousand firey suns. Listening to a bunch of smug pretty people making pretentious lists of all the things they love while driving a boat anchor of a car. Yeah, never mind about that struggling economy thing, and all of those people losing their homes and unable to get health care. Let's talk about our rich tastes and how special it makes us sound.

[Beat]

I share your sentiments, LJ.

[LadyJaye]

I share your sentiments, LJ.

That's because you're a lovely boy, and are required by law to agree with every crazy thing I say. :cheese:

[Eileen]

Or, she just honestly is not impressed the inherent qualities of being high on marijuana.


yeah, basically. for the record, i'm pro-legalization. i just think marijuana is kind of lame, and i think that being high for years on end is also kind of lame.

[Jack Flak]

I hate the Cadillac commercials with the fury of a thousand firey suns.
Have you seen the recent Ford commercial with the blonde saying something like "I like, totally never would have considered driving a Ford before, haha!" Well it sucks.

[Bear Warp]

I hate the Cadillac commercials with the fury of a thousand firey suns. Listening to a bunch of smug pretty people making pretentious lists of all the things they love while driving a boat anchor of a car. Yeah, never mind about that struggling economy thing, and all of those people losing their homes and unable to get health care. Let's talk about our rich tastes and how special it makes us sound.

Yes!

[pure_mercury]

I hate the Cadillac commercials with the fury of a thousand firey suns. Listening to a bunch of smug pretty people making pretentious lists of all the things they love while driving a boat anchor of a car. Yeah, never mind about that struggling economy thing, and all of those people losing their homes and unable to get health care. Let's talk about our rich tastes and how special it makes us sound.

To be fair, a Cadillac isn't exactly a McLaren F1, but I understand your sentiment. Why would an attractive 30-something chick boast about buying an overpriced old-man car, anyway? "I just moved to Florida, and I got a big-ass boat of a car with a V8. Time to drive it 22 in a 35 zone!"

[Ivy]

Caddie is trying to youth it up, I guess.

My first car was a gold 1977 Oldsmobile 98 which may be the only car more old-man than a Caddie, but I rocked it.

[pure_mercury]

Caddie is trying to youth it up, I guess.

My first car was a gold 1977 Oldsmobile 98 which may be the only car more old-man than a Caddie, but I rocked it.

I had a white Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight, circa 1989. It died on the way to my job at the country club one day.

BTW, remember the Aurora? In the mid-'90s, Oldsmobile tried to respond to Lexus/Acura/Infiniti with a luxury sedan. It was basically a Buick Riviera with slightly sportier styling and more options. That was a hilarious car.

[Ivy]

I had a white Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight, circa 1989. It died on the way to my job at the country club one day.

BTW, remember the Aurora? In the mid-'90s, Oldsmobile tried to respond to Lexus/Acura/Infiniti with a luxury sedan. It was basically a Buick Riviera with slightly sportier styling and more options. That was a hilarious car.

YES! What a silly idea. C'mon, you're Oldsmobile/Cadillac. Just embrace your old-manitude, right?

Did your Olds have an 8-track player? Mine did. Granddaddy spared no expense!

[pure_mercury]

YES! What a silly idea. C'mon, you're Oldsmobile/Cadillac. Just embrace your old-manitude, right?

Did your Olds have an 8-track player? Mine did. Granddaddy spared no expense!

AM/FM cassette, IIRC.

[LadyJaye]

To be fair, a Cadillac isn't exactly a McLaren F1, but I understand your sentiment. Why would an attractive 30-something chick boast about buying an overpriced old-man car, anyway? "I just moved to Florida, and I got a big-ass boat of a car with a V8. Time to drive it 22 in a 35 zone!"

My issue isn't with the actual machinery. It's with the incredibly vapid angle the company is taking in order to sell their cars. It's as if none of the people who wrote the commercials live on planet Earth with the rest of us. We're at a crisis point in so many areas globally, and to attempt to validate the "me me me" behavior is, I feel, morally wrong.

Caddie is trying to youth it up, I guess.

My first car was a gold 1977 Oldsmobile 98 which may be the only car more old-man than a Caddie, but I rocked it.

That's exactly it. They're trying to appeal to a new generation of monied consumers. But most of us don't have the plonk for a GTS Cadillac, so the few remaining folks that do have the money to spare, the company is attempting to stroke their egos by saying, " You're the Man! It's all about looking hot! You wanna look a million times cooler than everyone else in your law firm?! Buy this car!"

[Samuel De Mazarin]

My issue isn't with the actual machinery. It's with the incredibly vapid angle the company is taking in order to sell their cars. It's as if none of the people who wrote the commercials live on planet Earth with the rest of us. We're at a crisis point in so many areas globally, and to attempt to validate the "me me me" behavior is, I feel, morally wrong.



That's exactly it. They're trying to appeal to a new generation of monied consumers. But most of us don't have the plonk for a GTS Cadillac, so the few remaining folks that do have the money to spare, the company is attempting to stroke their egos by saying, " You're the Man! It's all about looking hot! You wanna look a million times cooler than everyone else in your law firm?! Buy this car!"

This is interesting enough to be in a whole new thread... most of the people in advertising I've met (and I know some people in executive roles in the creative aspects) are very level-headed, practical, and intelligent people. It actually makes sense that the people least likely to buy into the images created by ad companies are those who created the images...

[pure_mercury]

My issue isn't with the actual machinery. It's with the incredibly vapid angle the company is taking in order to sell their cars. It's as if none of the people who wrote the commercials live on planet Earth with the rest of us. We're at a crisis point in so many areas globally, and to attempt to validate the "me me me" behavior is, I feel, morally wrong.

But the ignorant ALWAYS buy things based on image and social status. Do you think that advertising "Our new Oldsmobile generates 15% more torque with its long-stroke engine" appeals to people? Of course not. They want the brand new, exotic car they saw their richer, more happenin' neighbor bought, or the one in that movie. How else can you explain adults spending $20,000 on a purple PT Cruiser? It's not ad people's faults. It's their job not just to provide information to potential customers; they need to CREATE customers out of people who didn't give a crap before.

And this will be contested, but whatever, it's true: "me me me" behavior is usually better than "we we we" behavior. I'd rather have a society of solipsistic twits out to score a fast buck to get that butt-ugly purple PT Cruiser than a society full of people who are ready, willing, and able to decide for me (or for any other individual with half a brain) what is important and what we may or may not have. In the original vein of this thread, that kind of world SUCKS.

[Jack Flak]

a society full of people who are ready, willing, and able to decide for me (or for any other individual with half a brain) what is important and what we may or may not have. In the original vein of this thread, that kind of world SUCKS.
East Germany!

[pure_mercury]

East Germany!

Yes, or North Korea. Or middle school. Any awful place you can imagine.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

PDF documents
Any book Oprah recommends
Dr. Phil
Talk radio
People who have seen Mamma Mia and can't shut up about it
Texas summer heat
Those really bleak contemporary novels, ie House of Sand and Fog
Most songs that are used in commercials
Judge Judy

I'm so with you until the very end. Judge Judy kicks ass! She don't have no sass! No sass-haver, she!

[Thursday]

top 40 radio

[Alpha-6]

Which artists (with some modicum of critical acclaim) actually suck? Directors, authors, graphic artists, whatever? Who is completely overrated? Which creative emperors have no clothes?

First nominee, for Egregious Overratedness: My Bloody Valentine. Cool sounds, no songs to speak of, not a great example of the shoegazer aesthetic.

This one Scion car commercial pissed me off. Something along the lines of "It's that which makes us different, that brings us together."
"United by individuality" I f**K** hate that commercial.

Also,

What The Bleep- Down The Rabbit Hole
Hancock
I Heart Huckabees

[Noel]

Ranch Dressing
Virginia Woolf
Spenser's The Faerie Queen
Newcastle Brown Ale
Heineken
Democracies
Corporations
English Theory

[pure_mercury]

I hate when people use the term "all in" in a non-poker context. I also CANNOT STAND the phrase "it is what it is." That says absolutely nothing. It's like you just wanted to say words. If you meant, "Well, we can't really change this situation; let's accept it," then say that.

[PinkPiranha]

Embarq commercials with the never-on-target weirdness. Plus I hate that resurgence of 90s irony in them.

[ZiL]

Quaint little acoustic jingles that are found on like 30% of all advertisements nowadays.

[heart]

I'm so with you until the very end. Judge Judy kicks ass! She don't have no sass! No sass-haver, she!

I don't like Judge Judy either.

I like Judge Hackett, she's at least got a sense of humor and she seems to have a true love for people in all their shades of dysfunction and flaws.

[ajblaise]

People who misuse the word "ironic".

[Martoon]

I can't believe I was ready to make Martoon my platonic life partner and then he proceeded to make a hate list that could have doubled as my "favorite things" list. He somewhat salvaged himself at the last minute by hating Angelina Jolie. But the scars are deep, and they are real. KISS forever!
Does this mean the platonic wedding is off? :cry: What really caused the hurt, FM? It was my bashing We Are the World, wasn't it? I knew I'd gone over the line with that one.

I was going to make a new list of things that suck, but I found a way to sum them all up in one single entry:

Things that college kids like (drinking too much excepted).
Ooh, thanks for catching that! One more for my list; drinking too much.

[Haight]

People who misuse the word "ironic".How ironic. I was just thinking the same thing!

[Martoon]

How ironic. I was just thinking the same thing!

Lol. Oh, the irony.

(Sorry. But I kinda had to, didn't I?)

[Haight]

That's not right! You just scored double points on that one.

[Beat]

I suck.

[Mort Belfry]

People who misuse the word "ironic".

These people are in the second to last layer of hell, people that misuse the word "literally" are right at the bottom.

[rhinosaur]

T.S. Eliot doesn't actually suck, but he is overrated and annoying.

[pure_mercury]

T.S. Eliot doesn't actually suck, but he is overrated and annoying.

Ezra Pound DID, in fact, suck. Racist jerk.

[PinkPiranha]

Ezra Pound DID, in fact, suck. Racist jerk.

Seriously. Ezra Ounce, at the very most.

Norman Mailer was a pig. Have I repeated myself?

[rhinosaur]

Ezra Pound DID, in fact, suck. Racist jerk.

Wait, Pound was a racist? Cause I kind of like some of his poems. They're much less pretentious than Eliot.

[pure_mercury]

Wait, Pound was a racist? Cause I kind of like some of his poems. They're much less pretentious than Eliot.

Yeah, he wrote some decent stuff, but he was nasty. He was a propagandist for the Axis during WWII!

[pure_mercury]

OK, time to add Nancy Pelosi (and her speechwriters) to the list. What an awful opening speech. She sounds like the worst nightmare of a kindergarten teacher I've ever heard.

[Cimarron]

Oh, oh, this is important!

Quentin Tarantino!
Emphatically seconded. I had always heard that he was the "greatest director of all time". Once, I applied for a job at the movie theater, and my friends told me, "If they ask you who your favorite director is, just say 'Quentin Tarantino. Doesn't matter if he is or not, just say it." Recently I finally watched some of his films and I was really disappointed.

Also, Mozart is overrated among classical music circles.

[pure_mercury]

Emphatically seconded. I had always heard that he was the "greatest director of all time". Once, I applied for a job at the movie theater, and my friends told me, "If they ask you who your favorite director is, just say 'Quentin Tarantino. Doesn't matter if he is or not, just say it." Recently I finally watched some of his films and I was really disappointed.

I love all of Tarantino's films aside from Death Proof from Grindhouse. Everything up to that point was really, really enjoyable. I think his aesthetic is actually far less mainstream than his notoriety would normally entail, since he grew up on a dollar-theater exploitation, cheap-VHS cult classic diet. He has his overly-talky, precious moments, though. Death Proof was VERY hard to get through, and it wasn't particularly long. Bad combo.

[pure_mercury]

I am actually praying for a Zergling special on this part of the thread. LOL

In terms of suckiness, how about any John Lennon song about Yoko and/or his children?

[GZA]

Weird Al sucks a lot.

No Country for Old Men. It just pisses me off how much acclaim that movie got. Artsy-fartsy and very mediocre.

The Lord of the Rings books. I loved the Hobbit, I love the story and the movies of LotR, but the books of LotR made me fall asleep.

[disregard]

Madonna.

I mean what the fuck is the appeal?

[pure_mercury]

Madonna.

I mean what the fuck is the appeal?

:steam: She was great in the mid- to late-1980s. One of our best pop stylists. The entire Like a Prayer album is fantastic.

[disregard]

Yes, but she's still selling out shows.

What is the appeal, not what was the appeal?

[heart]

Madonna.

I mean what the fuck is the appeal?

Amen.

[Gabe]

Which artists (with some modicum of critical acclaim) actually suck? Directors, authors, graphic artists, whatever? Who is completely overrated? Which creative emperors have no clothes?

First nominee, for Egregious Overratedness: My Bloody Valentine. Cool sounds, no songs to speak of, not a great example of the shoegazer aesthetic.

Directors: Troy Duffy. total douchebag.
author: Micheal Chrichton.

Award for type-castedness: Jack Nickleson, Adam Sandler

[pure_mercury]

Yes, but she's still selling out shows.

What is the appeal, not what was the appeal?

Oh, that's a better question. I guess because her fans are very hardcore, and her tours are big deals for them (even if the new music isn't that great, the production values are amazing). She still turns out a good single every now and then. It's really surprising how many great songs she had in the '90s. You don't really get un-famous after being as big as she was 20 years ago. I will always defend Madonna, though, because she is one of the few stars who was both a global phenomenon AND a great artist for a long time.

[disregard]

YouTube - Madonna ft. Justin Timberlake - 4 Minutes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfUjfioAnKY)

I rest my case.

[Geoff]

Madonna lives quite close to me. Not that this stops her sucking. Hey, it might increase her suckiness. Just sayin'.

[Tallulah]

I don't get the appeal of Madonna, either. I mean, I guess I get why certain personalities would dig the idea of a woman who's all about pushing the envelope, but I don't get why anyone would want to buy her cds. But then, I don't care for dance music, which by and large, sucks.

Geoff, I don't think you're causing Madonna's suckitude, but if you don't get out fast, hers might rub off on you. :doh:

[Ivy]

Moved some posts to a new thread. (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/politics-history-current-events/7829-language-politics-moved-who-sucks.html)

[ajblaise]

Oh, that's a better question. I guess because her fans are very hardcore, and her tours are big deals for them (even if the new music isn't that great, the production values are amazing). She still turns out a good single every now and then. It's really surprising how many great songs she had in the '90s. You don't really get un-famous after being as big as she was 20 years ago. I will always defend Madonna, though, because she is one of the few stars who was both a global phenomenon AND a great artist for a long time.

She doesn't write the music, she doesn't direct the videos, her voice is nothing special, does she even write her own lyrics?

Seems to me that as far as art goes, she just buys it from other people and puts it all under her name, like many pop artists do.

[pure_mercury]

She doesn't write the music, she doesn't direct the videos, her voice is nothing special, does she even write her own lyrics?

Seems to me that as far as art goes, she just buys it from other people and puts it all under her name, like many pop artists do.

She writes the lyrics with writing partners (she and Patrick Leonard worked together on many of her biggest songs). She also is involved in the concepts and set designs of her videos, photos, and concerts. I actually find her voice (starting around True Blue, when she stopped with the baby-voice stuff) to be quite nice. She's also a fantastic dancer.

You seem to be under the impression that the most important things when it comes to music is that one person or a tight-knit group spends lots of time slaving over it and then playing it in front of crowds of people, and that other vehicles of expression aren't as valid. I wholeheartedly disagree. Look at Motown. That music literally was made in a factory, with songwriters producing lyrics and/or melodies, then a house band working on the music, and then the best singer available brought in to sing the song. That music also happens to be almost all spectacular. Madonna was one of the first female artists to exercise control over both her music and her image, so I think she should be celebrated for that, but, in the end, it's the sounds coming out of the speakers that matter, NOT the manner in which it go there.

[LadyJaye]

GEORGE MICHAEL.

I'm pretty sure ever horrible number one hit he's had has been scrolling tortuously through my head for the last three days.

[ajblaise]

She writes the lyrics with writing partners (she and Patrick Leonard worked together on many of her biggest songs). She also is involved in the concepts and set designs of her videos, photos, and concerts. I actually find her voice (starting around True Blue, when she stopped with the baby-voice stuff) to be quite nice. She's also a fantastic dancer.

You seem to be under the impression that the most important things when it comes to music is that one person or a tight-knit group spends lots of time slaving over it and then playing it in front of crowds of people, and that other vehicles of expression aren't as valid. I wholeheartedly disagree. Look at Motown. That music literally was made in a factory, with songwriters producing lyrics and/or melodies, then a house band working on the music, and then the best singer available brought in to sing the song. That music also happens to be almost all spectacular. Madonna was one of the first female artists to exercise control over both her music and her image, so I think she should be celebrated for that, but, in the end, it's the sounds coming out of the speakers that matter, NOT the manner in which it go there.

There's nothing wrong with large groups of people being involved in the writing process, but if someone doesn't write the music and doesn't even write all of her own lyrics, that person isn't as much of an artist as one that does write their own music and lyrics.

A lot of her fame is from just being sexy on camera. Image over music and substance...that's what's killing music.

[pure_mercury]

There's nothing wrong with large groups of people being involved in the writing process, but if someone doesn't write the music and doesn't even write all of her own lyrics, that person isn't as much of an artist as one that does write their own music and lyrics.

A lot of her fame is from just being sexy on camera. Image over music and substance...that's what's killing music.

But her music in the '80s and early-'90s was GREAT. That is what matters.

[pure_mercury]

GEORGE MICHAEL.

I'm pretty sure ever horrible number one hit he's had has been scrolling tortuously through my head for the last three days.

He had a few good tracks. "Freedom" rocked. "Careless Whisper" was pretty good. "Father Figure" is a beautiful song in a very, very creepy way.

[ajblaise]

But her music in the '80s and early-'90s was GREAT. That is what matters.

Maybe to you and my little sisters it was great. To me it was overproduced pop fluff.

And technically, it wasn't mostly her music. Her name is just stamped on the collective effort.

[Geoff]

I don't get the appeal of Madonna, either. I mean, I guess I get why certain personalities would dig the idea of a woman who's all about pushing the envelope, but I don't get why anyone would want to buy her cds. But then, I don't care for dance music, which by and large, sucks.

Geoff, I don't think you're causing Madonna's suckitude, but if you don't get out fast, hers might rub off on you. :doh:

Ptthhfft! I'm the one living in the correct county, not her :P

[pure_mercury]

Maybe to you and my little sisters it was great. To me it was overproduced pop fluff.

And technically, it wasn't mostly her music. Her name is just stamped on the collective effort.

Or to the consensus of professional music critics, and to tens of millions of discerning pop music fans.

[pure_mercury]

Ptthhfft! I'm the one living in the correct county, not her :P

Just don't speak to her. She mimics English accents and then tries to pass them off as her own, and it's maddening.

[ajblaise]

Even Britney Spears won a Grammy. She has millions of fans also. Yet she's still a shitty artist.

What musical talent does she have?

[pure_mercury]

Even Britney Spears won a Grammy. She has millions of fans also. Yet she's still a shitty artist.

What musical talent does she have?


Britney Spears has had three or four good singles in her career ("Toxic," for instance, is about 8,000,000 times better than those videos you posted), but has mostly been bad. I didn't mentioned Grammys before, because they are a TERRIBLE way to measure quality and even critical acclaim. Those people are awful about judging music.

[ajblaise]

Britney Spears has had three or four good singles in her career ("Toxic," for instance, is about 8,000,000 times better than those videos you posted), but has mostly been bad. I didn't mentioned Grammys before, because they are a TERRIBLE way to measure quality and even critical acclaim. Those people are awful about judging music.

I guess we just have very different standards for judging music. There's nothing special, different, creative, complex, unique about most pop music. It's made by big corporations to make money off of 12 year old girls with a big allowance.

Walk into any jazz music club, and you will find more musical talent there than in Toxic and Like A Virgin. The videos I posted take actual musical talent to play, something these pop artists don't have.

[Ivy]

Jazz sucks.

[ajblaise]

Jazz sucks.

You can think that, but you have to agree it takes a lot of talent to play, more so than most genres.

[pure_mercury]

I guess we just have very different standards for judging music. There's nothing special, different, creative, complex, unique about most pop music. It's made by big corporations to make money off of 12 year old girls with a big allowance.

Walk into any jazz music club, and you will find more musical talent there than in Toxic and Like A Virgin. The videos I posted take actual musical talent to play, something these pop artists don't have.

Being good at your instrument doesn't make you a great musician. Not in any way shape or form. Look, I enjoy jazz. I downloaded an Alice Coltrane album yesterday, for Christ's sake. But intricate, technically sound music is only one way of valid expression. YOU may not like Top 40 music, but that doesn't mean it isn't great. Madonna pisses all over Uggie's McSnoozefest or whoever they are.

[Ivy]

You can think that, but you have to agree it takes a lot of talent to play, more so than most genres.

Perhaps jazz requires a different kind of talent, but I definitely disagree that it takes more talent to play jazz than most genres. And moreover I don't agree that all jazz takes that talent.

I actually don't think ALL jazz sucks, either.

[ajblaise]

Being good at your instrument doesn't make you a great musician. Not in any way shape or form. Look, I enjoy jazz. I downloaded an Alice Coltrane album yesterday, for Christ's sake. But intricate, technically sound music is only one way of valid expression. YOU may not like Top 40 music, but that doesn't mean it isn't great. Madonna pisses all over Uggie's McSnoozefest or whoever they are.

Being a good musician takes both talent in composing and performing. Most of the people on the Top 40 can't even play an instrument, someone else makes the music and they sing or rap. It's all about image on the Top 40, let someone actually make the music.

There are great pop music producers out there, but they don't get the credit, the pretty face attached to their music does.

There is good pop music, even though I don't respect the genre, but 90% of these pop artists are not artists. Madonna is on a musical level so much lower than people like Clapton, Hendrix, the Allman brothers, even Michael Jackson.

[Ivy]

Why do you keep talking about Top 40? That's not all "pop" is. Belle & Sebastian, Death Cab For Cutie, The Decemberists, and so on and so on are all poppy bands that aren't Top 40.

[ajblaise]

Perhaps jazz requires a different kind of talent, but I definitely disagree that it takes more talent to play jazz than most genres. And moreover I don't agree that all jazz takes that talent.

I actually don't think ALL jazz sucks, either.

I play drums and no style of drumming is harder to play than jazz. The complexity, speed, time signatures, rhythm...in jazz takes extreme talent to perform. The more complex and technical the music is, the harder it is to perform.

[Ivy]

I play drums and no style of drumming is harder to play than jazz. The complexity, speed, time signatures, rhythm...in jazz takes extreme talent to perform. The more complex and technical the music is, the harder it is to perform.

Oh, okay. You play drums. I guess that makes your opinion sacrosanct.

[ajblaise]

Why do you keep talking about Top 40? That's not all "pop" is. Belle & Sebastian, Death Cab For Cutie, The Decemberists, and so on and so on are all poppy bands that aren't Top 40.

Those are all indie rock/indie pop groups. A lot different than what pop music is generally considered.

[ajblaise]

Oh, okay. You play drums. I guess that makes your opinion sacrosanct.

As far as drumming is concerned it does, more so than someone who doesn't play.

[pure_mercury]

Being a good musician takes both talent in composing and performing. Most of the people on the Top 40 can't even play an instrument, someone else makes the music and they sing or rap. It's all about image on the Top 40, let someone actually make the music.

I disagree. Elvis Presley never recorded a song he wrote, and he was a middling guitarist. That doesn't make him not The King. He was one of the greats. Frank Sinatra didn't play his music, either. How about Rod Stewart? Come on, man, don't be so rockist. You should have an open mind. And I appreciate producers quite a bit. Nellee Hooper, for instance, or Phil Spector, Joe Meek, Max Martin, George Martin and Geoff Emerick, Shel Talmy, Dr. Dre, The Bomb Squad, and so on. They needed The Ronettes, Snoop Dogg, Public Enemy, et al. to make the music. It's a unified whole, that ends up with the sounds we hear in our ears.

There are great pop music producers out there, but they don't get the credit, the pretty face attached to their music does.

Oh, really? See above.

There is good pop music, even though I don't respect the genre, but 90% of these pop artists are not artists. Madonna is on a musical level so much lower than people like Clapton, Hendrix, the Allman brothers, even Michael Jackson.

"I don't respect the genre" is all I really needed to hear. You can say that you don't care for something, but that is different than saying it has no merit. Also, for the record, neither Clapton nor the Allman Brothers have done anything worthwhile in over 20 years ("Tears in Heaven" excepted). Madonna can claim a lot more relevance than those two acts. And Prince is a better musician than any of those acts.

[ajblaise]

I disagree. Elvis Presley never recorded a song he wrote, and he was a middling guitarist. That doesn't make him not The King. He was one of the greats. Frank Sinatra didn't play his music, either. How about Rod Stewart? Come on, man, don't be so rockist. You should have an open mind. And I appreciate producers quite a bit. Nellee Hooper, for instance, or Phil Spector, Joe Meek, Max Martin, George Martin and Geoff Emerick, Shel Talmy, Dr. Dre, The Bomb Squad, and so on. They needed The Ronettes, Snoop Dogg, Public Enemy, et al. to make the music. It's a unified whole, that ends up with the sounds we hear in our ears.



Oh, really? See above.



"I don't respect the genre" is all I really needed to hear. You can say that you don't care for something, but that is different than saying it has no merit. Also, for the record, neither Clapton nor the Allman Brothers have done anything worthwhile in over 20 years ("Tears in Heaven" excepted). Madonna can claim a lot more relevance than those two acts. And Prince is a better musician than any of those acts.

I don't respect that so much pop music is designed only to make money. You can understand that right? That's not what music should be about.

Elvis can be The King, but he wasn't a great artist. As for relevance, I wasn't referring to that, just talent.

[pure_mercury]

I don't respect that so much pop music is designed only to make money. You can understand that right? That's not what music should be about.

Elvis can be The King, but he wasn't a great artist. As for relevance, I wasn't referring to that, just talent.

OK, then: Prince is more talented than Clapton or the Allmans.

[sassafrassquatch]

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z9/rabidhominid/BeatDeadHorse.gif

[Ivy]

As far as drumming is concerned it does, more so than someone who doesn't play.

LOL I don't think so. Your talent is you-specific and you've trained it based on what you're most interested in playing. So you find playing jazz difficult? Interesting, I suppose, but that doesn't make it more difficult for everyone. There are jazz drummers who would have a more difficult time playing in other genres because their talent and practice is in jazz drumming. Jazz doesn't hold a monopoly on complex rhythms.

Here's another example. Suppose you have two violinists--one with a talent for bluegrass fiddlin' and one with a talent for classical violin. Each of these musicians is likely to have difficulty crossing over into the other musician's realm. Like jazz, bluegrass and classical can both be technically challenging or technically simple. The songs in each category that are technically challenging will be moreso to a musician who has not trained their talent in that specific genre.

[ajblaise]

OK, then: Prince is more talented than Clapton or the Allmans.

At what composition or playing instruments? Purple Rain was okay, but your poppy bias is showing through. He can't play like Clapton or the Allmans could, they can't sing like he could, as for composition, that's too subjective to argue.

You can cherry pick talented pop musicians, but it doesn't say much about the music as a whole.

[pure_mercury]

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z9/rabidhominid/BeatDeadHorse.gif

Well, as a sop to you, I love CCR. :D

[ajblaise]

LOL I don't think so. Your talent is you-specific and you've trained it based on what you're most interested in playing. So you find playing jazz difficult? Interesting, I suppose, but that doesn't make it more difficult for everyone. There are jazz drummers who would have a more difficult time playing in other genres because their talent and practice is in jazz drumming. Jazz doesn't hold a monopoly on complex rhythms.

Here's another example. Suppose you have two violinists--one with a talent for bluegrass fiddlin' and one with a talent for classical violin. Each of these musicians is likely to have difficulty crossing over into the other musician's realm. Like jazz, bluegrass and classical can both be technically challenging or technically simple. The songs in each category that are technically challenging will be moreso to a musician who has not trained their talent in that specific genre.

Any jazz drummer can play a typical 4-bar blues rhythm, a hip-hop beat, a hard-rock rhythm...they are simple and easy to play. Jazz drumming is consistently more complex than any other popular genre I can think of.

[pure_mercury]

At what composition or play instruments? Purple Rain was okay, but your poppy bias is showing through. He can't play like Clapton or the Allmans could, they can't sing like he could, as for composition, that's too subjective to argue.

You can cherry pick talented pop musicians, but it doesn't say much about the music as a whole.

Actually, Prince is one of the greatest guitarists alive, and he can play almost any instrument very well (except for drums, I believe). He is a superior vocalist to Clapton, for sure. And he wrote almost all of the music and lyrics on all of his albums, which are much more consistently great than Clapton or the Allmans.

[ajblaise]

Actually, Prince is one of the greatest guitarists alive, and he can play almost any instrument very well (except for drums, I believe). He is a superior vocalist to Clapton, for sure. And he wrote almost all of the music and lyrics on all of his albums, which are much more consistently great than Clapton or the Allmans.

He's not one of the greatest guitarists alive, he's decent though. But he doesn't get enough recognition for his talent with guitar.

[Ivy]

Any jazz drummer can play a typical 4-bar blues rhythm, a hip-hop beat, a hard-rock rhythm...they are simple and easy to play. Jazz drumming is consistently more complex than any other popular genre I can think of.

Nice changing horses in midstream there. You didn't specify popular genre before. I'd like to see a jazz drummer take up a tabla or a djimbe or a Highland drum. Chances are they wouldn't be any good at it at first, much like an exclusively Indian or African or Irish drummer wouldn't be any good at jazz drumming at first, either.

In any case, I do not personally buy "talent" as the top criteria for not-sucking. As you imply here, blues is not very complex and blues musicians don't have to have a lot of technical know-how, and many blues themes are recycled over and over again, but not many people would argue that blues sucks because of this. And yet, that's your argument about pop.

[ajblaise]

Nice changing horses in midstream there. You didn't specify popular genre before. I'd like to see a jazz drummer take up a tabla or a djimbe or a Highland drum. Chances are they wouldn't be any good at it at first, much like an exclusively Indian or African or Irish drummer wouldn't be any good at jazz drumming at first, either.

In any case, I do not personally buy "talent" as the top criteria for not-sucking. As you imply here, blues is not very complex and blues musicians don't have to have a lot of technical know-how, and many blues themes are recycled over and over again, but not many people would argue that blues sucks because of this. And yet, that's your argument about pop.

There are lots of complex percussion styles outside of jazz, but a good jazz drummer will have an easier time learning new complex styles than the average drummer of other genres, because their style already requires complex playing to begin with.

Talent isn't just about being able to play complex music and technical know-how. Talented pop and blues musicians know how to create good songs that lots of people will like. Without talent, you suck.

[pure_mercury]

There are lots of complex percussion styles outside of jazz, but a good jazz drummer will have an easier time learning new complex styles than the average drummer of other genres, because their style already requires complex playing to begin with.

Talent isn't just about being able to play complex music and technical know-how. Talented pop and blues musicians know how to create good songs that lots of people will like. Without talent, you suck.


"Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does." - Tony Wilson

:peepwall:

[Ivy]

"Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does." - Tony Wilson

:peepwall:

I want to shake that man's hand.

ajb, why are you comparing "a good jazz musician" to "the average drummer of other genres"? Shouldn't you compare like with like?

[ajblaise]

I want to shake that man's hand.

ajb, why are you comparing "a good jazz musician" to "the average drummer of other genres"? Shouldn't you compare like with like?

Alright, I meant to say an average or typical jazz musician compared to the average/typical drummer of most other genres, especially popular genres.

[ajblaise]

"Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does." - Tony Wilson

:peepwall:

Well it has been said that Jazz is a musician's music. Pop is the lowest common denominator's music.

[pure_mercury]

Well it has been said that Jazz is a musician's music. Pop is the lowest common denominator's music.

Jazz is fine, as long as it doesn't make you look down your nose at music that is just as valid. So, in your case, it's not fine.

[Magic Poriferan]

Actually, the last refuge of the untalented is punk, honestly and truley.

[pure_mercury]

Actually, the last refuge of the untalented is punk, honestly and truley.

That's the first refuge of people who aren't any good and don't care, but in a good way. :D Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols and London Calling are better than any jazz album of the last 30 years, that is for sure.

[Magic Poriferan]

That's the first refuge of people who aren't any good and don't care, but in a good way. :D Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols and London Calling are better than any jazz album of the last 30 years, that is for sure.

Well, first of all, jazz of the last thirty years has not be nearly as good as the jazz in the first forty years of the 20th century.

Secondly, those who don't care, still really suck, regardless of how little they care about the fact that they suck. In fact, that just makes me want to pull my hair out. What's worse than punk music, is the entire concept of punk aesthetic philosophy.

[pure_mercury]

Well, first of all, jazz of the last thirty years has not be nearly as good as the jazz in the first forty years of the 20th century.

We agree on this, although much of the jazz I enjoy was recorded between 1945 and 1975.


Secondly, those who don't care, still really suck, regardless of how little they care about the fact that they suck. In fact, that just makes me want to pull my hair out. What's worse than punk music, is the entire concept of punk aesthetic philosophy.

I kind of like the punk aesthetic. I don't like the nihilism or the willful amateurishness, but I do enjoy the "Who really gives a fuck?" attitude and the whole "Let's get back to what rock n' roll used to be" aesthetic. The Ramones were much more reverent and relevant inheritors to artists like The Ventures and Phil Spector and Little Richard than were, say, Supertramp. I recently read MOJO's Punk: The Whole Story, and it was a fantastic read. Amazing photos, lots of interesting stories, just great stuff. The vast majority of punk bands the last 20 years have been moronic, but that doesn't diminish the brilliance of the musicians who came before them.

[Geoff]

Who sucks? People who don't realise that liking or disliking music is entirely subjective :devil:

Some people like technical expertise, some artistic composition, some the style and delivery, some the rebellion, some the mainstream, some because their friends like it.. and so it goes on.

Fortunately, there is room for us to like our own things

[animenagai]

i agree with the romeo and juliet hate. a couple meets, falls in love, gets married, fucks, one gets exiled and both eventually commit suicide for the other all in under a week. this is supposed to be the greatest love of all time and shakespeare's best work? please, that's insulting to all of us. if you want shakespeare, you can go read othello, hamlet and all his other stuff. romeo and juliet? victorian chickflick.

[InaF3157]

i agree with the romeo and juliet hate. a couple meets, falls in love, gets married, fucks, one gets exiled and both eventually commit suicide for the other all in under a week. this is supposed to be the greatest love of all time and shakespeare's best work? please, that's insulting to all of us. if you want shakespeare, you can go read othello, hamlet and all his other stuff. romeo and juliet? victorian chickflick.
:huh: people think romeo & juliet is his best work?

[Night]

Motaro
Andy Dick
Kevin Trudeau
Judge Judith Sheindlan
Leprosy
Coopers
Pope Urban VIII
God Rugal
Jim Jones
Michael Moore
Allen Iverson
Michael Vick
Peter Griffin
Mephistopheles / Lucifer Morningstar

[pure_mercury]

Motaro
Andy Dick
Kevin Trudeau
Judge Judith Sheindlan
Leprosy
Coopers
Pope Urban VIII
God Rugal
Jim Jones
Michael Moore
Allen Iverson
Michael Vick
Peter Griffin
Mephistopheles / Lucifer Morningstar

Oh, come on now. Jim Jones? I know the critical tide has turned against him the last 30 years or so, but. . . :D

[animenagai]

:huh: people think romeo & juliet is his best work?

well for one thing, it's hands down the most discussed. maybe not so amongst the shakespearean scolars, but amongst the general public? definitely.

[Night]

Oh, come on now. Jim Jones? I know the critical tide has turned against him the last 30 years or so, but. . . :D

Ha - maybe I'll give him a reconsider.

After all, he had an unconventional way of protecting airport security.

well for one thing, it's hands down the most discussed. maybe not so amongst the shakespearean scolars, but amongst the general public? definitely.

Othello is much more flavorful.

As is Twelfth Night and The Tempest.

[pure_mercury]

:huh: people think romeo & juliet is his best work?

I don't think they think that. I think they think it's the best love story. Most people think his best work is one of Hamlet, "The Scottish Play" (superstition!), or King Lear. Unless you're T.S Eliot, and you think his best work is Coriolanus, for some reason.

[Ivy]

i agree with the romeo and juliet hate. a couple meets, falls in love, gets married, fucks, one gets exiled and both eventually commit suicide for the other all in under a week. this is supposed to be the greatest love of all time and shakespeare's best work? please, that's insulting to all of us. if you want shakespeare, you can go read othello, hamlet and all his other stuff. romeo and juliet? victorian chickflick.

psst.. Shakespeare wasn't a Victorian

[Geoff]

psst.. Shakespeare wasn't a Victorian

Heh. I'd recommend Bill Bryson's "Shakespeare" for a recently published short and sweet amusingly written biog. It points out in this that he wasn't a victorian, too.

Oh, and I'd say his best work is MacBeth. Maybe because I liked Terry Pratchett's take on it with Wyrd Sisters?

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Motaro
Andy Dick
Kevin Trudeau
Judge Judith Sheindlan
Leprosy
Coopers
Pope Urban VIII
God Rugal
Jim Jones
Michael Moore
Allen Iverson
Michael Vick
Peter Griffin
Mephistopheles / Lucifer Morningstar

Allen Iverson is tough as nails and wants to win more than anyone. That's good enough for me.

[MacGuffin]

I don't think they think that. I think they think it's the best love story. Most people think his best work is one of Hamlet, "The Scottish Play" (superstition!), or King Lear. Unless you're T.S Eliot, and you think his best work is Coriolanus, for some reason.
Ha, I just posted this at INTPc, but it works here too:

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/021306/got-to-get-paid.jpg

(from Married to the Sea (http://www.marriedtothesea.com))

[pure_mercury]

Ha, I just posted this at INTPc, but it works here too:

Oddly enough, he probably slaved over Titus Andronicus for YEARS.

[Ivy]

How timely Michael Ian Black's blog is. I am definitely feeling indicted by this entry, after the music debates of yesterday:

Michael Ian Black: I Hate Whatever Music You Like (http://michaelianblack.typepad.com/blog/2008/08/i-hate-whatever-music-you-like.html)

[EffEmDoubleyou]

How timely Michael Ian Black's blog is. I am definitely feeling indicted by this entry, after the music debates of yesterday:

Michael Ian Black: I Hate Whatever Music You Like (http://michaelianblack.typepad.com/blog/2008/08/i-hate-whatever-music-you-like.html)

I think I would vote for him for President after reading that :)

[Tallulah]

How timely Michael Ian Black's blog is. I am definitely feeling indicted by this entry, after the music debates of yesterday:

Michael Ian Black: I Hate Whatever Music You Like (http://michaelianblack.typepad.com/blog/2008/08/i-hate-whatever-music-you-like.html)

Fantastic article!

[Ivy]

Maybe I should change my scarlet G to a scarlet D. But only if p_m and ajb agree to wear them too!

[booyalab]

where's Zergling when you need him?!......oh

[EffEmDoubleyou]

How timely Michael Ian Black's blog is. I am definitely feeling indicted by this entry, after the music debates of yesterday:

Michael Ian Black: I Hate Whatever Music You Like (http://michaelianblack.typepad.com/blog/2008/08/i-hate-whatever-music-you-like.html)

That also reminds me of a great t-shirt sold by The Onion. It says "Your Favorite Band Sucks".

[pure_mercury]

That also reminds me of a great t-shirt sold by The Onion. It says "Your Favorite Band Sucks".

I thought the same exact thing. :D Seriously, though, people who are scenesters and pick up/put down bands at the drop of a headband are very annoying. I say "I'm eclectic" all the time, with no shame. If you can judge me a douche for doing that, I can judge you a douche for liking crappy music.

[mlittrell]

anything on tv...lol kidding...sorta

[Tallulah]

That also reminds me of a great t-shirt sold by The Onion. It says "Your Favorite Band Sucks".

Oh, I'm gonna have to track down that tshirt.

[ajblaise]

Pearl Jam haven't done anything worthwhile since Vitalogy, a song or two per album excepted. And Eddie Vedder is a short douche with a stupid voice.

I thought Eddie Vedder's work on the Into The Wild soundtrack was excellent, he should keep on doing solo stuff, Pearl Jam is over. And I like his voice, I'm sick of hearing high-pitched girly-men fronting bands.

[ajblaise]

3rd Rock.

17 Emmy nominations? what the hell?

[murkrow]

reruns?

[ajblaise]

oops, i mean 30 Rock.

[murkrow]

A woman writes it, liberals like women.

[ajblaise]

i guess, also sitcoms in general suck these days so there's not much competition.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

It also helps that it's by far the best sitcom since Seinfeld and delivers more laughs per episode (LPE) of any show in TV history.

Of course, these things are all subjective.

[Tallulah]

It also helps that it's by far the best sitcom since Seinfeld and delivers more laughs per episode (LPE) of any show in TV history.

Of course, these things are all subjective.

Indeed. 30 Rock is hilarious. By far my favorite sitcom. It also has an INTP heroine. :wubbie:

[murkrow]

I prefer the office.

Oh that David Brent!

Curb Your Enthusiasm is the best show on TV though, it should win everything.

[ajblaise]

I prefer the office.

Oh that David Brent!

Curb Your Enthusiasm is the best show on TV though, it should win everything.

+1

[pure_mercury]

I thought Eddie Vedder's work on the Into The Wild soundtrack was excellent, he should keep on doing solo stuff, Pearl Jam is over. And I like his voice, I'm sick of hearing high-pitched girly-men fronting bands.

Terrible voice! He's a mumbly, growly mess. He's directly influenced a whole generation of crappy singers, like the guy from Nickelback. "Hard Sun" is good music ruined by a brutally bad chorus.

[pure_mercury]

It also helps that it's by far the best sitcom since Seinfeld and delivers more laughs per episode (LPE) of any show in TV history.

Of course, these things are all subjective.

Seinfeld was overrated. I'll watch entire episodes and laugh 2 or 3 times. I'll take The Simpsons, Curb Your Enthusiasm, either version of The Office, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, The Larry Sanders Show, and Arrested Development over Seinfeld any day.

[Magic Poriferan]

Terrible voice! He's a mumbly, growly mess. He's directly influenced a whole generation of crappy singers, like the guy from Nickelback. "Hard Sun" is good music ruined by a brutally bad chorus.

Don't forget Creed!

[pure_mercury]

Don't forget Creed!

I was trying to, but now I can't. Hinder are in that group, too. Yeesh.

[ajblaise]

This doesn't have to do with Arts and Entertainment, but: People with snow hats on when it's 80 degrees out.

[pure_mercury]

This doesn't have to do with Arts and Entertainment, but: People with snow hats on when it's 80 degrees out.

Yeah, that's silly. Unless you're a Russian man in a sauna or something. Also, anyone who looks/dresses like this guy, the lead singer from The Spin Doctors (although he doesn't look nearly so goofy now):

YouTube - Spin Doctors - Little Miss Can't Be Wrong (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=givZsEAW80k)

[Enyo]

The Titanic.

I mean, seriously. The boat sank. Get over it.

I think when I watched that movie, I spent most of it praying that they would hurry up and hit the damned iceberg.

[Enyo]

South Park's social/political commentary sucks too, they should stick to fart jokes.

There. Fixed it. Seriously, I hate that show.

And I always thought that Friends was retarded, too.

[Lateralus]

There. Fixed it. Seriously, I hate that show. (South Park)
I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you. I guess it was bound to happen sometime.

[Enyo]

I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you. I guess it was bound to happen sometime.

Yeah, it would. My husband likes it, too. I just get repulsed by the fart jokes.

I always tell him that I have boobs, so it makes up for a lot of other flaws. ;)

[Lateralus]

Yeah, it would. My husband likes it, too. I just get repulsed by the fart jokes.

I always tell him that I have boobs, so it makes up for a lot of other flaws. ;)
Boobs do have a way of making up for a lot of flaws. :smooch:

[froggywoggle]

Obama sucks.

W

[Fuent]

The Fifth Element is awesome.

[LadyJaye]

Yeah, it would. My husband likes it, too. I just get repulsed by the fart jokes.


I can't stand scatological humor.

Also, I'm going to resubmit George Michael. I insist.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I can't stand scatological humor.

Also, I'm going to resubmit George Michael. I insist.

It's too bad you feel that way. He told me that he thinks it would be nice if he could touch your body. Cause he knows not everybody has a body like you.

I guess he better think twice before he gives his heart away.

[Magic Poriferan]

I suck. :( (at least that's certainly how I feel today)

You know... if these were still the years when Oasis was popular, I'd post it several times.

[whatever]

I got tired of reading through the 30 some pages in a semi-tipsy post work state, so I'm going to just go ahead and list some things-

La Dolce Vita
Requiem for a Dream (the movie, not the song)
emo anything
post 90s pop punk
South Park
Patron and Grey Goose (so lack of character is something worth striving for in a drink?!? :shock:)
Splenda
Top 40 music after about 1997 or so (I HATE you Fallout Boy!)
Zach Braff
The Dali Lama (oh yes, I went there! don't run if you want to help out :dry:)
the idea of "getting in touch with yourself" in the horrible modern sense
Herman Melville
uggs
Chardonnay- especially that which is heavily oaked (buttered toast belongs on a plate!)
sweetened "coffee" drinks- it's not coffee if you can't taste the coffee

that's a start ;)

[Tallulah]

It's too bad you feel that way. He told me that he thinks it would be nice if he could touch your body. Cause he knows not everybody has a body like you.

I guess he better think twice before he gives his heart away.

Aww, now he's never gonna dance again...

I thought of another one. The movie Life is Beautiful. What a simplistic, annoying piece of sentimental schlock.

[whatever]

I forgot my pure disgust with Nicholas Sparks and everything he's ever had a hand in- die Nicholas Sparks!!! :steam:

[booyalab]

There's way too much South Park hate and not nearly enough Family Guy hate.
I also hate fart jokes but if you don't like the show you must not like satire.

[Tallulah]

There's way too much South Park hate and not nearly enough Family Guy hate.
I also hate fart jokes but if you don't like the show you must not like satire.

QFT.

[Magic Poriferan]

There's way too much South Park hate and not nearly enough Family Guy hate.
I also hate fart jokes but if you don't like the show you must not like satire.


That's a pretty vast generalization, and also logically invalid.

If someone does not like fart jokes, and they dislike something that contains fart jokes and satire, that does not mean they dislike satire.

[booyalab]

That's a pretty vast generalization, and also logically invalid.

If someone does not like fart jokes, and they dislike something that contains fart jokes and satire, that does not mean they dislike satire.
Except for the simple fact that the longest running fart joke, terrence and phillip, was meant to be satirical.

[whatever]

I think that South Park is OVERRATED, I don't HATE it... I simply don't think that it's the greatest cartoon ever like many of my friends and most of the other students I was surrounded with seem to think that it is.

Looney Tunes will ALWAYS beat South Park in my book ;)

[Colors]

Aww, now he's never gonna dance again...

I thought of another one. The movie Life is Beautiful. What a simplistic, annoying piece of sentimental schlock.

:yes: I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I even kind of like the beginning of the film, but then it becomes :steam:

I hope no one thinks this doesn't suck, but it sucks enough that it bears mentioning anyway: According to Jim

Also sucky:
Memoirs of a Geisha, the movie
The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver
In the Time of the Butterflies by Julia Alvarez (I thought this was gonna be a movie about rebels! And instead it's about all their sister issues. *snore*)
The Giver by Lois Lowry

[ajblaise]

It's not just fart jokes, but general toilet humor, which was funny to me in the 5th or so grade when I started watching it. But with satire, no other cartoon does it better.. that I know of.

Family Guy is funny, they pack the show with joke after joke, which I like. I don't really care that they have ridiculous plots. But I'd rather watch South Park.

[Magic Poriferan]

Except for the simple fact that the longest running fart joke, terrence and phillip, was meant to be satirical.

That doesn't actually disprove my proposition. Someone might incidentally dislike satire, if it happened to have fart jokes. It still indicates little to nothing about satire as a whole.

[booyalab]

Someone might incidentally dislike satire, if it happened to have fart jokes.
The way you phrased this doesn't really make sense.

Anyway, if someone says "ok, A, B and C may be mocked. But NEVER D!", they don't so much like mocking humor as dislike A, B and C.

[ajblaise]

The way you phrased this doesn't really make sense.

Anyway, if someone says "ok, A, B and C may be mocked. But NEVER D!", they don't so much like mocking humor as dislike A, B and C.

But a lot of the time with South Park, the farts infuse with the satire, so someone who might otherwise like good satire might be turned off overall by the farting around.

[booyalab]

But a lot of the time with South Park, the farts infuse with the satire, so someone who might otherwise like good satire might be turned off overall by the farting around.

But I think you just proved my point. I'm trying to make a distinction between liking when something is satirized and liking satirical humor. For the latter preference, the actual substance of what is being made fun of is less important as long as it's funny. But if you have an entire category of things that can never be funny, you're not into satirical humor for it's own sake.

[CaptainChick]

Sarah Palin sucks major anus, majorly.

YouTube - Sarah's Grand Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_anjAMr3Y)

[ajblaise]

But I think you just proved my point. I'm trying to make a distinction between liking when something is satirized and liking satirical humor. For the latter preference, the actual substance of what is being made fun of is less important as long as it's funny. But if you have an entire category of things that can never be funny, you're not into satirical humor for it's own sake.

Alright I suppose you can make that distinction, but more often than not, the people who like when something is satirized and like satirical humor are the same person.

[ajblaise]

Sarah Palin sucks major anus, majorly.

YouTube - Sarah's Grand Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_anjAMr3Y)

At first I didn't understand why they didn't want her to do interviews, but now I get it.

[booyalab]

Alright I suppose you can make that distinction, but more often than not, the people who like when something is satirized and like satirical humor are the same person.

Yeah I still prefer when I agree with the satire, but I'm less of a prude than I used to be. It's more fun.

[LadyJaye]

It's too bad you feel that way. He told me that he thinks it would be nice if he could touch your body. Cause he knows not everybody has a body like you.

I guess he better think twice before he gives his heart away.

Aww, now he's never gonna dance again...


You both clearly hate me.

[Jack Flak]

It's too bad you feel that way. He told me that he thinks it would be nice if he could touch your body. Cause he knows not everybody has a body like you.

I guess he better think twice before he gives his heart away.
A/V Reference: YouTube - George Michael - Faith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viPWb3ieH6o)

[kyuuei]

Sarah Palin sucks major anus, majorly.

YouTube - Sarah's Grand Plan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3_anjAMr3Y)

So if you ever become an assassin, I will totally help you shoot that woman in the head. ^_^b Saving the world AND having an awesome job. Everyone wins! Except Sarah Palin?.. *especially* Sarah Palin.

[Jack Flak]

So if you ever become an assassin, I will totally help you shoot that woman in the head. ^_^b Saving the world AND having an awesome job. Everyone wins! Except Sarah Palin?.. *especially* Sarah Palin.
But hey, I like Palin. I only support assassination of those I disapprove of. Can we get a ruling on this?

[Colors]

The Stranger by Camus aka chronicles of the boring kind of sociopath (who knew they existed?)