Mistyped TypeCentral Members

[Uberfuhrer]

:eek:

Yep, what do you think about the last line on this post (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/255828-post61.html)?

[Ivy]

But nah. I've come to realise that I'm probably an ENFJ.

Does this seriously surprise anyone? I never bought introversion for you for a single second!

[Nocap]

Ah, CC, I adore you. :wubbie:

But nah. I've come to realise that I'm probably an ENFJ. It's been a while that I'd been reconsidering INFJ, although I didn't think ENFJ at first.

If I've seemed ENFP to others, which I suspect I might've at times, perhaps I'd been channelling your eNergy (or even Nocaps >_>) ;)

I'd like to discuss why, and in another thread perhaps, but not now. Now, I must dash >_>

Who the hell does she keep looking at?

[Ivy]

Yep, what do you think about the last line on this post (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/255828-post61.html)?

I don't think he was talking about your types.

[Uberfuhrer]

I don't know about any of you, but Nocapszy even looks like an ENTP. (That is when he had pictures of himself up.)

[CaptainChick]

Yep, what do you think about the last line on this post (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/255828-post61.html)?

Lol, of course Zerglingon would think so.

:rolli:


EDIT: Regardless, it is a compliment to be compared to you. ;)

[Uberfuhrer]

Lol, of course Zerglingon would think so.

:rolli:


EDIT: Regardless, it is a compliment to be compared to you. ;)

So does Wolf.

Does the compliment still stand?

[entropie]

I don't know about any of you, but Nocapszy even looks like an ENTP. (That is when he had pictures of himself up.)

haha, I dont know nocapszy but THIS would be my main part of reasoning xD

[CaptainChick]

So does Wolf.

Does the compliment still stand?
Lol @ Wolf.

Sure it does.

[Uberfuhrer]

I must be way too complex to be analyzed, I guess...

[entropie]

I must be way too complex to be analyzed, I guess...

guess so, I am starting to mix up the type your porn star thread with the Mistyped MBTIc Members thread :shock: :D

[htb]

I think it is an INP thing. I am much, much more fluent in writing than speaking. I am a radically different person in person. Getting on the web was the best thing to ever happen to my Ne! :DActually, I can see that.

Which is, further, why face-to-face/Skype time would shorten threads like these to about a page and a half. Biographical information, writing patterns, observable thought processes and certain value judgments can corroborate a declared type or suggest another one; but nothing's quite like the real thing.

[zarc]

edahn as ENTP makes sense.

hap definitely seems INTJ.

oh and DD -- you mistyped yourself?

you seem pretty INFJ to me.

I still greatly idenitfy with INFJ. It was gauging the I/E that's the issue. I'm wondering if years of childhood abuse, being sick and depressed might've altered my natural progression for whatever type I might've become if not INFJ. Meh.

I might've jumped a little too quickly with determining ENFJ, though. Even though I'd been wondering for a few weeks now, I somewhat had a burst of inspiration while reading the profile. It just fit. However, I have been...changing...lately... I'm going to take a while to observe myself over the coming weeks as I have no choice but to interact with a lot of people and I haven't been truly social for years, really. I'm curious as to how I'll behave.

Does this seriously surprise anyone? I never bought introversion for you for a single second!

Aha! I thought so! :D

I'm much more lively and extroverted on the forum than I am in RL, definitely. At least I was when I first joined I was bursting with energy. It spewed forth through my fingertips! I have to say it was rather embarrassing to realise just how bad it was, after some time, as I'd just gotten over a small bout of depression and isolation. It was probably unnoticed but I left for a short while to recharge. I feel as though I've calmed down again. It was a good release. :D

I'm fairly quiet (I know @@) in RL. I can be shy but that's normally if I haven't interacted with people for some time. I find that I'll eventually need a push to get me going. But I still just might be a low-key E. Meh.

Who the hell does she keep looking at?

<_<!!

/serious

This was a good thread idea, Jen!

[Edahn]

This was interesting.

I was talking to my brother about how I solve problems 2 nights ago and described it like this: I forget about all rules of thumb and principles and just to analyze the situation into its components, seeing conflicts as conflicts rather than right action and wrong actions. Then I advise by breaking down the situation and explaining option in terms of outcomes.

The quote Ivy supplied It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

applies fairly well to me. I do have certain core principles that are based on experience, observation of people, and analysis. I relate well to the "balancing of core issues" as well as the last 2 lines about reading people. I think I do that fairly well irl. Maybe I should move some of these posts and start a What's My Type? thread. Thanks for the input everyone.

[JivinJeffJones]

Someone PM me if my name comes up. I can't be bothered reading this thread anymore.

[CzeCze]

Edahn, bro, I love you man, but you are not ENFP.

I'm totally sharing Captain Chick's shock and horror :shock: as to these declarations.

What do people actually think ENFPs are like??? Totally emo?

Doood -- he's freaking studying to become a BUDDHIST. That doesn't make you ENFP. Or INFP. I'm sure there are tons of INTJs and INTPs and tons of 'S's running around the monastery. If we really want to start breaking down NF/NT stereotypes, David Kiersey the pioneer in understanding people and respecting differences and type theory who had immense respect for INFPs, and he's INTP. I guess maybe that's a compliment that folks think the desire (almost pre-occupation) to know yourself better, be a good person, and be good to other people is strictly and only an NF trait buuuuuuuuuut, no. I would bet good money that a lot of self-help gurus and spiritual advisors are not 'F' but 'T'.

Arctic Angel, fellow ENFP, made the observation that ENFPs and INTPs have a lot more in common than I was giving credit for. Perhaps that's coming into play right now.

I do not 'get' ENFP at ALL from Edahn. I don't even really get INFP. In other words, I still get NT from him.

Did I mention I know a number of INTPs intimately in real life and have known them for years and feel quite familiar with how they internally process as well as interact with the world. They are extremely sensitive people and have a lot emotionally going on inside that they don't share readily IRL. They are quite emo in their own ways. And The interwebz is a medium that allows all that stuff inside outside.

Also, I think it's unfortunate that people are so caught up in the F/T dichotomy that the concept of trying to bebe 'whole brained' or 'balanced' isn't really explored much on the forum.

I truly believe Edahn is a T who is working very hard to develop his 'F'. Awesome for him, I totally commend him for the path he's on now. But that doesn't mean his functions somehow switch mid-stream.

I think the fact there are so many 'ENFP' votes for him is more reflective of the fact that an XNTP working on their 'F' and TRYING to be sensitive and TRYING to be empathetic is almost unheard of and downright unpopular on the forums (mostly INTPc I'm guessing, but also here)

I would seriously be shocked and further not believe if he said he has started testing ENFP.

Edahn, I like you just the way you are.

And you are not ENFP.

[Buds of May]

I've used an argument style similar to Bluewing's. It came from watching too much Seven of Nine and figuring her social style should work for anyone.

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I fight dirty. When conversations get heated with my INTJ husband I resort to sex. Works every time! ;)

Hahaha. It sure does! For him... :ninja:

[Rajah]

Hell no he's not!!!

:shocking:Yes, he is.

[Rajah]

*shudders*

He is NOT an ENFP!!!!!Yes, he is.

Edahn cannot be an ENFP or INFP in my opinion. I see no evidence of Fi. He has very pronounced Fe to my view. I think he is an NTP who is working hard to developing his Fe.He's an ENFP. If he's an ENTP (he's not), he's like a font-size 1 T.

I knows me some ENFPs, and Edahn is an ENFP.

[SolitaryWalker]

Yes, he is.

He's an ENFP. If he's an ENTP (he's not), he's like a font-size 1 T.

I knows me some ENFPs, and Edahn is an ENFP.

Wahhhh! I know me some ESFJs! Edahn is definitely ESFJ, you better believe it!

And I am actually ESTJ, the more that I think of it! The hell with INTJ...

[Thursday]

Wahhhh! I know me some ESFJs! Edahn is definitely ESFJ, you better believe it!

Oh snap.
You tell em, BlueWing

[Rajah]

What do people actually think ENFPs are like??? Totally emo? No. I like ENFPs. And they're not totally emo.


(INFPs are. ;) )

Doood -- he's freaking studying to become a BUDDHIST. That doesn't make you ENFP. Or INFP. I didn't base my declaration on this.

Arctic Angel, fellow ENFP, made the observation that ENFPs and INTPs have a lot more in common than I was giving credit for. Perhaps that's coming into play right now. Yes, they do. I'm an XNTP. I have quite a bit in common with Edahn.

I do not 'get' ENFP at ALL from Edahn. I don't even really get INFP.I don't get INFP from Edahn either. Cause he's an ENFP.

Did I mention I know a number of INTPs intimately in real life and have known them for years and feel quite familiar with how they internally process as well as interact with the world. They are extremely sensitive people and have a lot emotionally going on inside that they don't share readily IRL. They are quite emo in their own ways. And The interwebz is a medium that allows all that stuff inside outside. This has nothing to do with Edahn being an ENFP.

I truly believe Edahn is a T who is working very hard to develop his 'F'. Awesome for him, I totally commend him for the path he's on now. But that doesn't mean his functions somehow switch mid-stream. He's not. He's an ENFP whose legal training tempers the F. *shrug*

I think the fact there are so many 'ENFP' votes for him is more reflective of the fact that an XNTP working on their 'F' and TRYING to be sensitive and TRYING to be empathetic is almost unheard of and downright unpopular on the forums (mostly INTPc I'm guessing, but also here) No. I think you're reading way more into this than is there. Edahn's an ENFP. A wonderful and cool ENFP who I genuinely like, respect, and admire.

Since when did "ENFP" turn into this pejorative term?

I would seriously be shocked and further not believe if he said he has started testing ENFP. I would too. Eventually, I think he'll settle into the idea. ;)

Edahn, I like you just the way you are.Me too.

And you are not ENFP.Yes, he is.


Seriously. Like | | <-- this much research on ENFPs shows he's an ENFP. Not to mention if there's any type I've had LOTS of exposure to,* it's ENFPs.






(including Edahn :devil: )

[Rajah]

Wahhhh! I know me some ESFJs! Edahn is definitely ESFJ, you better believe it!

And I am actually ESTJ, the more that I think of it! The hell with INTJ...I'm guessing this is the trademark INTJ brand of "humor."

[SolitaryWalker]

I'm guessing this is the trademark INTJ brand of "humor."

ESTJ! I tell you!

[Edahn]

I test out borderline T and F because I care about people and know how to read and entertain, but I still really like how ideas are assembled and put together, debate, logic, and efficiency. Same for E/I depending on my mood and what's going on in my life.

[Haphazard]

I'm guessing this is the trademark INTJ brand of "humor."

Humor? What humor?

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Humor? What humor?

Grrrrrrrrrr. :steam:

[Rajah]

BlueWing has said it all so much better than I could. I agree with him.

That's another thing though. Edhan writes his ideas tighter and more well defined than say I could most days and it seems effortless. That makes me see more Ti in him than anything else.He's a lawyer. What do you expect? He's trained to write that way. He'd better write his ideas "tighter" and more well defined than you on most days, or he'd have failed law school.

And besides, "F" doesn't mean you're suddenly unable to write and be logical.

[Rajah]

I test out borderline T and F because I care about people and know how to read and entertain, but I still really like how ideas are assembled and put together, debate, logic, and efficiency. Same for E/I depending on my mood and what's going on in my life.Edahn, just as much as Ts, Fs like ideas, debate, logic and efficiency. They're (you are!) totally capable of logic. Now when you invest personal emotions in it, then maybe we have a different story.... :)

[Buds of May]

Oh.

FWIW, I'm in love with both Edahn and Bluewing. And Bluewing totally exudes Ne. You have to listen with a lover's ear.

Just kidding.

Ok, enough of this.

[Rajah]

Oh.

FWIW, I'm in love with both Edahn and Bluewing. And Bluewing totally exudes Ne. You have to listen with a lover's ear.

Just kidding.

Ok, enough of this.Who are you?

[Buds of May]

Who are you?

Huh?

[InaF3157]

lol. asserting it 20 more times will surely seal the deal.

[Buds of May]

Oh, wait.

Edahn, you're not middle-aged? Forget about it.

entropie: any type that's not ENTP.

Why? :sombrero:

[Rajah]

lol. asserting it 20 more times will surely seal the deal.lol? Edahn knows me well enough to seriously consider what I'm saying. I'm not interested in convincing you.

[Orangey]

ESTJ! I tell you!

LOL

[Jen]

Hahaha. It sure does! For him... :ninja:Works both ways. :devil:

[Night]

but that's not how type is defined. night seems to derive feeling from the outer world. look at what happens when he's involved in disagreements -- he makes sure there's resolution right away, he never leaves it up in the air. it's almost compulsive. an Fi user wouldn't care as much about fixing a disagreement, because their opinion is consciously validated by their internal state. when night sees an external feeling state he doesn't like, he changes it. totally Fe.

he does seem slightly uncomfortable with Fe, but that's because the Ni/Ti axis is safer.

Night's Fe seems to be a bit formal to me, making me think it's learned rather than natural.


I also don't think Night is INFJ. I think he is INTJ with developing feeling. Night just "feels" more Fi than Fe. Things like his avatar choices. Everytime he gets a new avatar I am thinking "wow, great avatar!" because they speak directly to my Fi.


Night could either be an INTJ or INFJ. Like Wedekit (INFJ), he plays both sides well enough, despite the majority of his actions appearing to stem from Ti and Fe. The only roadblock is that there's probably a whole lot more than meets the eye to Night and therefore, he can't be accurately typed by someone who doesn't know how he process things. Is his Fe learned? Why is he motivated to use it? What influenced his view on Fe? He once said he started out as an INFJ, but could it be a mistype? And what was his reason for thinking he was an NF? How does he define an INFJ from an INTJ? Te from Fe? Etc.


We have some very intelligent members here.


Ti primary
Fe secondary
Te tertiary


Behold.

[Jen]

2 days and nearly 300 replies. People really do love discussing themselves and analyzing others. Who'd have thunk it. ;)

The verdict is out. Night, INTJ. He's just too level headed to be any other type. :smile:

[Night]

The verdict is out. Night, INTJ. He's just too level headed to be any other type. :smile:

You are far too kind, Jen.

NFs really are my favorite people.

[Xander]

So I'm an ENTP or an INTJ???

Well I guess that's an improvement (in accuracy) from ENFP :dont:

It's amazing how complex people's analysis goes.. to me anyhow. Personally I find little to disagree with on other's types.

I note that Wildcat has drawn much analysis.. I'd still stick with INTP for him. I'm not sure of his "true" preferences but his style definitely fits the INTP paradigm.

What is odd is how much question INTPs types tend to come under. I have to wonder what sort of divergance people see. After all isn't the primary schtick of an INTP an obsession with questions? (Says he asking a question :rofl1: )

I'd love to see how people think they've managed to re-analyse people's types and come up with some of these answers...

As for Night... I think I'll stick to my original analysis and say INTJ too. Perhaps not the a-typical kind of INTJ but one never the less.

[Night]

Xander - ENTP

Highly theoretical without needless closure


You should post more often.

[Xander]

Xander - ENTP

Highly theoretical without needless closure


You should post more often.
:rofl1: If I were an extrovert then surely I'd post less often as my bubbly personal life would just over-ride the whole internet thing :D

Oh :doh: hang on it does... damn.

Okay so closure (I'll find a loophole around here somewhere), I got typed as an INTJ by Gabe (probably in response to one thread where I was a little overly forceful) ... there MUST be SOME closure!!

You know I did used to search for closure but never found satisfaction... I converted when I figured I was fighting a losing battle. Why ask closure from others (including other things) when I refuse to do so myself?

Also I got frustrated with trying to find absolutes. Either they evade me because I am unable to grasp them or simply because they are not there and so I only coalesce when necessary and then retract back to my usual fluidic state. Chameleon (or shapeshifter, if you're a Trekkie) style.

See an INTP with closure is one who is refusing to look into alternatives probably out of stress, the negative aspects of the ESFJ shadow. When they alter their position later it is often in response to a revelation and can cause little need to look back at the previous experiences as anything but an error in conclusion. I merely decided that it was an error in approach.

Anyhow...surely I'm not competetive enough to be an ENTP?

[Jennifer]

FWIW, I'm in love with both Edahn and Bluewing. And Bluewing totally exudes Ne. You have to listen with a lover's ear.

Who are you?

Bluewing's lover.

(Not sure how poor Edahn got dragged into that menage a trois tho.)

[Night]

Anyhow...surely I'm not competetive enough to be an ENTP?

As you know, you're begging the (rhetorical) question, here. ;)

At the very least, you are an xNTP - your oceanic posting style (topic z - topic x - topic y) is highly reminiscent of the xNTP mindset.

Creative chap.

[Jen]

So I'm an ENTP or an INTJ???

Well I guess that's an improvement (in accuracy) from ENFP :dont:

It's amazing how complex people's analysis goes.. to me anyhow. Personally I find little to disagree with on other's types.

I note that Wildcat has drawn much analysis.. I'd still stick with INTP for him. I'm not sure of his "true" preferences but his style definitely fits the INTP paradigm.

What is odd is how much question INTPs types tend to come under. I have to wonder what sort of divergance people see. After all isn't the primary schtick of an INTP an obsession with questions? (Says he asking a question :rofl1: )

I'd love to see how people think they've managed to re-analyse people's types and come up with some of these answers...

As for Night... I think I'll stick to my original analysis and say INTJ too. Perhaps not the a-typical kind of INTJ but one never the less. If I were an extrovert then surely I'd post less often as my bubbly personal life would just over-ride the whole internet thing

Oh hang on it does... damn.

Okay so closure (I'll find a loophole around here somewhere), I got typed as an INTJ by Gabe (probably in response to one thread where I was a little overly forceful) ... there MUST be SOME closure!!

You know I did used to search for closure but never found satisfaction... I converted when I figured I was fighting a losing battle. Why ask closure from others (including other things) when I refuse to do so myself?

Also I got frustrated with trying to find absolutes. Either they evade me because I am unable to grasp them or simply because they are not there and so I only coalesce when necessary and then retract back to my usual fluidic state. Chameleon (or shapeshifter, if you're a Trekkie) style.

See an INTP with closure is one who is refusing to look into alternatives probably out of stress, the negative aspects of the ESFJ shadow. When they alter their position later it is often in response to a revelation and can cause little need to look back at the previous experiences as anything but an error in conclusion. I merely decided that it was an error in approach.

Anyhow...surely I'm not competetive enough to be an ENTP?
Xander's type- YAPP :laugh: :alttongue:

[Eileen]

xander, i think you're ENTP too. you kind of bubble over with it.

And I get why people might think Edahn is extraverted. In most photos, he appears to have a little "in your face" energy. But he doesn't seem ENFP to me... at all. Like, I can work out the E, the N, the F, and the P--each part independently--but he doesn't seem to me to add up to ENFP, nor INFP. His communication online seems to me much more NJ than anything else. That might be his law school training, or maybe it's how he thinks naturally.

[Jennifer]

... he doesn't seem ENFP to me... at all. Like, I can work out the E, the N, the F, and the P--each part independently--but he doesn't seem to me to add up to ENFP, nor INFP.

Yes, that's one of the typing fallacies out there -- that someone is simply the composition of the parts we have dissected them into.

It's not that simple or analytical.
I think type reading is much more holistic in nature

His communication online seems to me much more NJ than anything else. That might be his law school training, or maybe it's how he thinks naturally.

Yes, he is sort of NJ in how straight-forward he is and delivers conclusions; but like you point out, his delivery is based on myriad factors of which inherent inclination is but one element.

[Xander]

As you know, you're begging the (rhetorical) question, here. ;)
See now I'm lost #1....

I'm presuming the response goes "Aren't you?" but I'm not sure.

Another point where the possibilities overwhelm my ability to remove them leaving me with the only option (apparently a wise one though it feels like a confused one) to simply conclude that I am unsure.

You know I am a 9. You sure that's not what's doing it?
At the very least, you are an xNTP - your oceanic posting style (topic z - topic x - topic y) is highly reminiscent of the xNTP mindset.

Creative chap.
Oceanic? Creative? (Bored and at work? ;) )

It is true I am unfocused, unlike many of my INTP brethren, but there again I am quite a bit more focused than many (in my humble :devil: estimations). I refute the ENTP type as I'm far too prone to obsession.

(Far far too prone!!!)
Xander's type- YAPP :laugh: :alttongue:
Closer. Oddly that kind of works in rhyme too as people often describe me as "the one that looks like a Japanese baby" :steam:
xander, i think you're ENTP too. you kind of bubble over with it.
Bubble?

Come on guys... the reason you think I'm an ENTP is because I like you. It's that simple. I'm chatty to those I enjoy the company of.

Besides of the two introverts I most often hang around with...I'm the quiet one!!

(Btw does anyone know how to shut up an INFP without engaging their very sensitive and over-reactionary paranoia? )

ENTP.. Come on...

Why not ENTJ? I could get comfy with that. INTJ ain't too bad but I'm just not right often enough... ENFP wasn't all that bad but when people get all gooey I'm not rejoicing... I'm recoiling!

[Ivy]

J?! Xander, you're so funny!

ENTP all the way. It's not that you're chatty, it's the way you make connections and surf the tangents. Much more Ne than Ti.

[Eileen]

J?! Xander, you're so funny!

ENTP all the way. It's not that you're chatty, it's the way you make connections and surf the tangents. Much more Ne than Ti.

Yes, exactly! :)

[Jeffster]

2 days and nearly 300 replies. People really do love discussing themselves and analyzing others. Who'd have thunk it. ;)



I know, and in all that, still no one's taken a crack at over-analyzing me. A dude could almost take that personally if he wasn't so secure. :cry: :D

[Ivy]

I know, and in all that, still no one's taken a crack at over-analyzing me. A dude could almost take that personally if he wasn't so secure. :cry: :D

It's because you're so quintessentially ISFP.

[Jennifer]

It's because you're so quintessentially ISFP.

Ditto.

[Mondo]

2 days and nearly 300 replies. People really do love discussing themselves and analyzing others. Who'd have thunk it. ;)

The verdict is out. Night, INTJ. He's just too level headed to be any other type. :smile:

I don't think Night is one BUT ISTJ's are equally level-headed.
ISTJ's and INTJ's are one and the same when it comes to robot land!!

[Mondo]

I think Xander's an INTP.
Did you read his post on ENFP's (comparing him and his friend)??
I'm too lazy to find it but it shows that Ti's in charge but Ne plays a role.

After reading 31 pages, I guess I'm definitely an INTP.. :D

[Night]

I don't think Night is one BUT ISTJ's are equally level-headed.


This is a great compliment.

[Ivy]

I don't know about the post you're talking about but over the years I've gotten to know and love Xander as a space case intellectual. :) Ne is in the driver's seat, IMO.

[Xander]

J?! Xander, you're so funny!
What about INTJ? I know I wasn't exactly charitable to Gabe on our first meeting (something I hope I can be forgiven for at some point) but INTJ?

Anyhow...I'm often quite close to ENTJ. Well a lot moreso than my ENTJ father who seems to be shifting to INTP as he gets older. HE used to berrate me about "seats are for sitting on, not for putting things on". I try that line at his house and all I get is "Yes but I live on my own so it's alright for me to do it".. typical J.. always about controlling the exterior whilst the interior flaps around like a gasping fish :rolleyes:
ENTP all the way. It's not that you're chatty, it's the way you make connections and surf the tangents. Much more Ne than Ti.

Yes, exactly! :)
:D Oh many think this to be true. I think only Gen managed to penetrate the mess to find that everything...I really mean EVERYTHING... goes through the Ti filter before it is used or considered. I don't even tie shoelaces without having at one point thought through why they should go that way around.

Don't get me wrong, I love the analysis (okay so maybe there is a little attention seeking within me) but I'm afraid I merely redefine INTP a little :)

(Personally I blame growing up with two Fs and having Fs, almost without exception, as friends...I tend to conceal or tone down the Ti. I dislike upsetting people and so the iron spike is now a Nerf arrow.

Anyhow, why is an ENTP all intuition and an INTP not? The two share the same preferences, just reversed. Surely you'd pick up intuition off of anyone who has it as a secondary preference but has learned to enhance it?

Aw nuts... :doh: ... I just realised I'm trying to conclude again. Bad, bad...BAD!!!

I am satisfied that I am a more extroverted INTP. However if you so wish I shall alter my type to fit the boards decision.

:smile:

[Mondo]

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type/5701-enfp-infp.html

Check out Post #62 of this topic.
This is why I think Xander's INTP.

If you don't agree.. I may very well be ENTP myself.

[Ivy]

Anyhow, why is an ENTP all intuition and an INTP not? The two share the same preferences, just reversed. Surely you'd pick up intuition off of anyone who has it as a secondary preference but has learned to enhance it?

Sure. I know it's verboten but I'm going to, just as a rhetorical device, compare you to Noah who is very much INTP, TiNe without a doubt. His Ti has a firm reign on the Ne. He's multilayered and open-ended in the way he makes connections, but he leads with the Ti which lends a structure to it. You, IMO, lead with your Ne and drag Ti along kicking and screaming all the way. :D Like Eileen said you bubble over with it.

That said it's true that I've never met you and of course I could be wrong, it's just a (very strong) impression I've gotten over the years.

[Gabe]

What about INTJ? I know I wasn't exactly charitable to Gabe on our first meeting (something I hope I can be forgiven for at some point) but INTJ?

Anyhow...I'm often quite close to ENTJ. Well a lot moreso than my ENTJ father who seems to be shifting to INTP as he gets older. HE used to berrate me about "seats are for sitting on, not for putting things on". I try that line at his house and all I get is "Yes but I live on my own so it's alright for me to do it".. typical J.. always about controlling the exterior whilst the interior flaps around like a gasping fish :rolleyes:



:D Oh many think this to be true. I think only Gen managed to penetrate the mess to find that everything...I really mean EVERYTHING... goes through the Ti filter before it is used or considered. I don't even tie shoelaces without having at one point thought through why they should go that way around.

Don't get me wrong, I love the analysis (okay so maybe there is a little attention seeking within me) but I'm afraid I merely redefine INTP a little :)

(Personally I blame growing up with two Fs and having Fs, almost without exception, as friends...I tend to conceal or tone down the Ti. I dislike upsetting people and so the iron spike is now a Nerf arrow.

Anyhow, why is an ENTP all intuition and an INTP not? The two share the same preferences, just reversed. Surely you'd pick up intuition off of anyone who has it as a secondary preference but has learned to enhance it?

Aw nuts... :doh: ... I just realised I'm trying to conclude again. Bad, bad...BAD!!!

I am satisfied that I am a more extroverted INTP. However if you so wish I shall alter my type to fit the boards decision.

:smile:



I didn't say INTJ just because you pissed me off.

You made a remark that sounded much more like Trickster Fe than inferior Fe.

[Jennifer]

...I am satisfied that I am a more extroverted INTP. However if you so wish I shall alter my type to fit the boards decision.

Do whatever you want.
If it was clear-cut, then perhaps you could build a case, but these things tend to be more ambiguous, so then you have to be happy with any label you're willing to bear.
If you think it is the most "correct" assignation based on the evidence, then go for it.

I will say that often you do feel like you're channeling Sub, there's a lot of similarities in your frenetic, freewheeling, Ne-pinging posting styles.

[Ivy]

Do whatever you want.
(You have to be happy with any label you're willing to bear.)
If you think it is the most "correct" assignation, then go for it.

I will say that often you do feel like you're channeling Sub, there's a lot of similarities in your frenetic, freewheeling, Ne-pinging posting styles.

:yes:

Reading a Xander post (or a sub post) is like watching someone do parkour:

Xander posting

And I LOVE IT.

[Night]

Reading a Xander post (or a sub post) is like watching someone do parkour:


Although probably a moot issue at this point, I really do think Ivy is an INxP.

[Xander]

I think Xander's an INTP.
Did you read his post on ENFP's (comparing him and his friend)??
I'm too lazy to find it but it shows that Ti's in charge but Ne plays a role.
I redub the 'Mondo Bingo Dude' :smile:
After reading 31 pages, I guess I'm definitely an INTP.. :D
Tell me about it. I was reminded at 9:30 pm that I should stop building my computer as I hadn't eaten all day :doh:

That and, knowing I was tired and had to get up, I continued after food till 1am. Damn that "just one piece more" mindset!!! :steam:
I don't know about the post you're talking about but over the years I've gotten to know and love Xander as a space case intellectual. :) Ne is in the driver's seat, IMO.
I think I have the answer. Some people I approach as an equal and will engage the Ti to analyse them foremost. Other's I hold at arms length until I am more familiar with where I am in their estimations. At such points I use my intuition to entertain (and probably partially to conceal and evade).

Also like gimme a break... yuz a girl. I've got to slam the intuition into overdrive so I can chat you up without getting slapped (either metaphorically or via a court order).

I reckon that people aren't taking into account the whole "hey it's you!!" factor. To some I am Yoda, full of mystic advice and such, to others I'm full of... less than useful produce ( *phew* ). To some I'm considered clever where as to other's I am always the dunce. Some consider me charming whilst people like my sister often point at me as some kind of example of a nicely mannered social retard.

Personally I'll admit I to a little deliberate change but I think that people skew my personality to match an expected pattern.

Still if the lady's insist then I shall aquiesce.
(Oh and yeah that Night bloke too... I guess as he's one of em "right" people.... :rolli: )|

[Ivy]

Although probably a moot issue at this point, I really do think Ivy is an INxP.

That would be my best guess too, though I think I may have ruined myself with too much MBTI thinking, making my own perceptions suspect of bias. So I have to rely on the observations of more objective parties. :)

[Uberfuhrer]

If I'm not mistaken, Ivy is an Enneagram 9, which means she is probably everything -- like Jung himself. :yes:

[Jen]

Closer. Oddly that kind of works in rhyme too as people often describe me as "the one that looks like a Japanese baby" I see what you're trying to suggest and I'll do no such thing! The nerve! :huh:

This is a great compliment.I think it stinks and I'll have none of it!

[Eileen]

Although probably a moot issue at this point, I really do think Ivy is an INxP.

That would be my best guess too, though I think I may have ruined myself with too much MBTI thinking, making my own perceptions suspect of bias. So I have to rely on the observations of more objective parties. :)

Well, I think that you're pretty clearly NF given that you're so attuned to ethics/values/emotional impacts. INFP makes some sense to me having met you (though you still don't seem as... loosey-goosey... as most INFPs I know).

[Nocap]

This is like a bad joke that everyone except Rajah is in on...

Edahn is seriously not a damned enfp.

[Xander]

Sure. I know it's verboten but I'm going to, just as a rhetorical device, compare you to Noah who is very much INTP, TiNe without a doubt. His Ti has a firm reign on the Ne. He's multilayered and open-ended in the way he makes connections, but he leads with the Ti which lends a structure to it. You, IMO, lead with your Ne and drag Ti along kicking and screaming all the way. :D Like Eileen said you bubble over with it.
Noah is quite the INTP, I'll conceed that without contestation. It is however only one result. If all INTPs were like Noah then you'd not really get the structured silly side...if I recall correctly Noah goes more like Sdalek when feeling flippant (something I can't follow).

Mind you though... I'm in a vaccuum. I know of no INTPs locally! I do know one ENTP thought and I'm definitely not paranoid, defensive or reclusive enough about me as a person to be one like that. I could be dealing with a faulty batch but there again so could anyone.
That said it's true that I've never met you and of course I could be wrong, it's just a (very strong) impression I've gotten over the years.
I make tea. I'll even make cawfee. You only have to knock :)

Mind you I'm now getting nagged about when I'm actually going to make good on my promises and go around the states. It seems the missus wants to meet everyone too. Not sure if it's friendly or merely sizing up the "competition" but it would be interesting :devil:
I didn't say INTJ just because you pissed me off.

You made a remark that sounded much more like Trickster Fe than inferior Fe.
Well hopefully I shan't annoy you anymore.

I'm still unfamiliar with the whole trickster thingy.. but I think I know what you mean.

Would I be correct in thinking that it may be based more so on EP vs IP? I'm just thinking that if I were acting INTJ then would I not conceal more of my personal feelings on stuff like that and, being as IJ is your shadow, would not an INTJ think more akin to an ENFP than an INTP?
Do whatever you want.
:nice: CHECK....

Aww nuts there's more :(
(/jk)
If it was clear-cut, then perhaps you could build a case, but these things tend to be more ambiguous, so then you have to be happy with any label you're willing to bear.
If you think it is the most "correct" assignation based on the evidence, then go for it.

I will say that often you do feel like you're channeling Sub, there's a lot of similarities in your frenetic, freewheeling, Ne-pinging posting styles.
If I am sure then please shoot me, I am a clone.

I am often confused as to why other INTPs aren't like me. How they're dry and more focused in the detail than I am. I do wonder why most INTPs are more indepth and less broad than I am but also I wonder at many INTPs certainty as I find it inherant in the type to be uncertain.

It is possible that I'm not an INTP. Only my father is adamant that I am and states that the differences between myself are cultural, based on interests or simply levels of intellect (I doubt I'll ever be convinced of any of them). I do defer to his greater expertise in the areas of MBTI but that doesn't mean I bow to his experience.

That's a good point... I so completely do the whole against the establishment facet more than most (just to start sounding like a sweet valley cheerleader for a moment).
:yes:

Reading a Xander post (or a sub post) is like watching someone do parkour:

And I LOVE IT.
Nope. WRONG.

They didn't hit their heads once :doh:

(I would love to be able to do that though.)

Do I really skip over the pond of ideas more than most INTPs? Do I just illustrate it more? Am I an INTP who likes to entertain?

I'm so going to start a thread... This needs some looking into...
Although probably a moot issue at this point, I really do think Ivy is an INxP.
Really? I was just thinking NFJ myself. ENFJs most often mistype me to conform to what they already think I am.. INFPs tend to see me as more INTP than ENTP as far as I can tell...

Where's that bear type person when you need him... Carebear!!!

[Nocap]

Xander is no T.

[Jennifer]

...Nope. WRONG.

They didn't hit their heads once :doh:

(I would love to be able to do that though.)

Do I really skip over the pond of ideas more than most INTPs? Do I just illustrate it more? Am I an INTP who likes to entertain?

I'm so going to start a thread... This needs some looking into...

Dude, this entire post (including the quoted part) is giving my sense of focus whiplash.

You are just pinging all over the pace, with rapid-fire right-off-the-brain-into-the-fingers delivery.

As far as INTPs sounding sure of themselves, basically you're just seeing Ti at work.

When INTPs are Ne'ing their communication, they will be fuzzy and float around and have fun, even get a little whimsical or silly depending.

When they drop into Ti (because the situation is one they have thought about), they can sound very sure... because they're explaining the conclusions they've drawn so far. There is no other "better" explanation, they're giving you the "best answer" they've got so far. So they're not fuzzy, they sound hard in how they state things.

But there's a large disclaimer there: "...so far." The conclusions that sound so solid are completely vulnerable to new information; as soon as any little piece of information or possibility enters, the "conclusion so far" has to be recalculated.

So the INTP is always sure of the final conclusion of their logic, but they're not sure at all if it's entirely reflective of reality and so the conclusion must constantly be updated. So they sound sure, but the answer is constantly under revision.

If Ne is placed first and Ti is just used to support, then you'd be pinging all over the place and just using Ti to "prod and push" on a possibility so that you can leap to another one from that one, if the ground is safe. The goal here is to leap and explore and advance, using the inner judgment to test your footing; Ti+Ne is more about building a model/case for something, and Ne keeps expanding the theoretical framework, not letting it calcify.

[Jen]

Xander is no T.
*slaps Nocaps* You take that back! :cry:

[Night]

Nocapszy - do you think my INTP analysis for you is correct?

[Xander]

Xander is no T.
Not what?
Dude, this entire post (including the quoted part) is giving my sense of focus whiplash.

You are just pinging all over the pace, with rapid-fire right-off-the-brain-into-the-fingers delivery.

As far as INTPs sounding sure of themselves, basically you're just seeing Ti at work.

When INTPs are Ne'ing their communication, they will be fuzzy and float around and have fun, even get a little whimsical or silly depending.

When they drop into Ti (because the situation is one they have thought about), they can sound very sure... because they're explaining the conclusions they've drawn so far. There is no other "better" explanation, they're giving you the "best answer" they've got so far. So they're not fuzzy, they sound hard in how they state things.

But there's a large disclaimer there: "...so far." The conclusions that sound so solid are completely vulnerable to new information; as soon as any little piece of information or possibility enters, the "conclusion so far" has to be recalculated.

So the INTP is always sure of the final conclusion of their logic, but they're not sure at all if it's entirely reflective of reality and so the conclusion must constantly be updated. So they sound sure, but the answer is constantly under revision.

If Ne is placed first and Ti is just used to support, then you'd be pinging all over the place and just using Ti to "prod and push" on a possibility so that you can leap to another one from that one, if the ground is safe. The goal here is to leap and explore and advance, using the inner judgment to test your footing; Ti+Ne is more about building a model/case for something, and Ne keeps expanding the theoretical framework, not letting it calcify.
Ooo that's good. What happens if an INTP posts from work and is therefore engaging Ti on the thing he's concentrating upon and posts for relief from talking to inbred bigots?

Just purely theoretically you understand ;)
*slaps Nocaps* You take that back! :cry:
What? I didn't see what he said I was not... :( You deleted it?


Oh btw, thread as promised http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/what-s-my-type/7026-ei-ei-ooooohhh.html

[Nocap]

Nocapszy - do you think my INTP analysis for you is correct?

I promise you'd change your mind if we met in person. For all what you've have seen, I don't blame you (or anyone else) for guessing INTP.

I've even wondered about it myself. I'm still convinced I'm an extravert.


It's certainly better than all those J diagnoses.

[Night]

I know, and in all that, still no one's taken a crack at over-analyzing me. A dude could almost take that personally if he wasn't so secure. :cry: :D

I have you as EsFP, Jeffster.

I promise you'd change your mind if we met in person. For all what you've have seen, I don't blame you (or anyone else) for guessing INTP.

I've even wondered about it myself. I'm still convinced I'm an extravert.

You're an extremely intelligent guy. eNTP seems a great description, too.

[Jennifer]

Ooo that's good. What happens if an INTP posts from work and is therefore engaging Ti on the thing he's concentrating upon and posts for relief from talking to inbred bigots?

Just purely theoretically you understand ;)

geeez. Stay on task!!! ;)
(you immediately pinged off in a new direction without either establishing or cutting down the old one.)

lol

I have you as EsFP, Jeffster.

Oh, he's goofy, all right... but not quite goofy enough to be ESFP. :)
(That's my professional assess. It sounds professional, doesn't it, terminology and all? Of course it does.)

[Xander]

geeez. Stay on task!!! ;)
(you immediately pinged off in a new direction without either establishing or cutting down the old one.)

lol
But... but... you didn't ask any questions? Introvert... hello... (well for the moment)... internal process.. you just get the feedback.

I processed... gave feedback... Wha?

I was proposing a theory which may explain why, though I do display all of those particular characteristics you mentioned (to one degree or another), I still come off as more ENTP than INTP.

I was not intending a continuation of your points as to do so would merely form commentary and not progression. So with the ideals of progression in mind I asked a new question which challenges the basis for your theories without individuallly addressing each theory.

I thought that was pretty clean myself....

Obviously not doing so well on the ENTP good arguing skills front....

:devil: 1-0 :smile:

[Jen]

Xander I don't have time to write you an essay but you're an NTP. I'll report back after we (you me and limey) get together the next we're in the UK and let everyone know your true type.

btw what type do you think I am?

[prplchknz]

I'm a bit sad that according to everyone here I'm the quintessential INFP (ok not really sad) either that or no one will say anything. I'm fine with being an INFP, but I don't want to be a sterotype.

[Orangey]

I'm a bit sad that according to everyone here I'm the quintessential INFP (ok not really sad) either that or no one will say anything. I'm fine with being an INFP, but I don't want to be a sterotype.

From what little interaction I've had with you so far, I do believe that you at least seem like an INFP.

[Jennifer]

But... but... you didn't ask any questions? Introvert... hello... (well for the moment)... internal process.. you just get the feedback.

I processed... gave feedback... Wha?

I was proposing a theory which may explain why, though I do display all of those particular characteristics you mentioned (to one degree or another), I still come off as more ENTP than INTP.

I was not intending a continuation of your points as to do so would merely form commentary and not progression. So with the ideals of progression in mind I asked a new question which challenges the basis for your theories without individually addressing each theory.

I thought that was pretty clean myself....

Obviously not doing so well on the ENTP good arguing skills front....

:devil: 1-0 :smile:

omg. :shock: migraine time.

Well, normally what I do is I clarify first whether I agree or disagree with what has been said, so that the foundation is secure before we build on it. If the lower levels of the discussion are not agreed on, then anything built on top of it is shaky.

The main time I don't do that is if everyone is just in bs mode (and here I mean "brainstorm" although I guess it's rather all the same, huh? ;) ), and so we're just trying to nail planks across the chasm a la Wile E. Coyote before gravity sucks us all down.

[Rajah]

This is like a bad joke that everyone except Rajah is in on...

Edahn is seriously not a damned enfp.I'm sorry, but I really think you're wrong. I've known more ENFPs IRL than any other type. Edahn embodies so much about ENFPism(!) it's ridiculous. From the constant concern about how people interrelate, to the self-criticism, to this overarching need for self-discovery and living in accordance with this sense of purpose he has, to his broad range of interests and talents, to his difficulty to follow through on things, to his excellent people skills, to his difficulty staying content in romantic relationships, he screams ENFP.

I have talked with Edahn more than I have most other people on this forum or on INTPc. I'm coming from a decent vantage point, given the constraints of online typing to begin with.

[Rajah]

Xander - ENTP

Highly theoretical without needless closureSeconded.

FWIW, I think you're an INFJ, Night. And a lovely person to boot.

[Jen]

Seconded.

FWIW, I think you're an INFJ, Night. And a lovely person to boot.INtJ.

And cute. whoops did i just say that out loud?*hides* Not nearly as cute as Limey tho ;P

[Lurker]

I've observed all of you for a long time. I've even corresponded with and met some of you.

(+10 Creep Points)

Here's my five cents:

Rajah: eNTP
Night: INfj
Edahn: ENFP
Ivy: HELP
CaptainChick: ESFP
Haight: INTp
MacGuffin: entP
Nocapszy: ENTp
Bluewing: INTJ
notta: INTj
Anonymous: INTP
Athenian: ISTJ

[Jen]

Those all seem accurate minus Night. I've interacted with him on this Gauntlet thing and he looks and behaves very J. I agree he isn't a strong T but he is logical and doesn't seem to wear his heart on his sleeve the way most of us NF's do. He's also very guarded which has led me to think sometimes he might not be who he says he is but I'm paranoid so don't mind me. ;)

[Rajah]

Those all seem accurate minus Night. I've interacted with him on this Gauntlet thing and he looks and behaves very J. I agree he isn't a strong T but he is logical and doesn't seem to wear his heart on his sleeve the way most of us NF's do. He also doesn't share who he really is in full view but I've always known that.F doesn't mean illogical! And F doesn't mean wear your heart on your sleeve!

[Rajah]

I've observed all of you for a long time. I've even corresponded with and met some of you.

(+10 Creep Points):ninja:

[Haphazard]

So am I the INTJ stereotype?

I don't know if that's a good thing, really. *eyes INTJf cautiously*

[Jen]

F doesn't mean illogical! And F doesn't mean wear your heart on your sleeve!I don't automatically use logic the way an NT does and I can be very sensitive and take things to heart. I don't show it by crying, I tend to lash out when hurt. The only reason I am better now is because I'm older and married to Limey. He has helped me tremendously.

[Rajah]

I don't automatically use logic the way an NT does and I can be very sensitive and take things to heart. The only reason I am better now is because I'm older and married to Limey. He has helped me tremendously.
I think INTPc rubs off in a bad way sometimes. There's nothing better or worse about being an F. It's a different way of approaching problems and bringing something different to the table in terms of substance and depth. To me, that's what Night embodies and, actually, what you embody. Night is extremely gentle and intuitive. He has very keen insight. He is extraordinarily accommodating and considerate in a way that even the more-developed Ts I've seen are not. In fact, as someone explained to me, he is one of the more considerate people she's ever read. He's not exactly mystified by feeling the way many Ts are.

[Haphazard]

I'm confused. Is the change from INTP to INTJ for Bluewing just because of his stubbornness and rigidity? Because that hardly seems like a good reason.

[Lurker]

I'm confused. Is the change from INTP to INTJ for Bluewing just because of his stubbornness and rigidity? Because that hardly seems like a good reason.

No.

[Haphazard]

No.

Then give me an explanation, please.

[Night]

Night is extremely gentle and intuitive. He has very keen insight. He is extraordinarily accommodating and considerate in a way that even the more-developed Ts I've seen are not. In fact, as someone explained to me, he is one of the more considerate people she's ever read. He's not exactly mystified by feeling the way many Ts are.

This is one of the kindest things anyone has ever said about me.

I'm touched. Thank you, Rajah.

Truly...

[Uberfuhrer]

I'm confused. Is the change from INTP to INTJ for Bluewing just because of his stubbornness and rigidity? Because that hardly seems like a good reason.

BlueWing seems to be more interested in questioning than coming to any sort of closure.

[pure_mercury]

Lots of members seem to think that I am mistyped. My S vs. N and F vs. T are pretty close on most of the tests I take.

[Jen]

Lots of members seem to think that I am mistyped. My S vs. N and F vs. T are pretty close on most of the tests I take.I dunno, you do name drop a lot. ;) What type are most celebrities? Sensors?

[Orangey]

Lots of members seem to think that I am mistyped. My S vs. N and F vs. T are pretty close on most of the tests I take.

I don't think you seem like an S. Just my opinion.

[Edahn]

I don't think ENFP works for me either.

ENFP's profile is Ne Fi Te Si. There is no way in hell my Te is stronger than my Si. I have no Te.

Rajah, I know NFs can be logical, but I don't think NF works. The NF's priorities aren't set up the same way mine are. NFs are concerned with how solutions satisfy people's emotional needs (according to Kiersey). My solutions are more practical. I have no problem chewing people out, either, and that's a lot more NT than NF. I have a love for logic and organization more than my love for puppies or whatever it is NFs like. See, I don't even know. Granted I have good, nay, impeccable people skills, but those skills come from having a strong Ne and having grown up around funny people.

So far, I think ENTP or XNTP work the best.

[pure_mercury]

I dunno, you do name drop a lot. ;) What type are most celebrities? Sensors?

I'm not THAT bad. I haven't actually met that many celebrities yet. I would imagine there are a lot of SFP and STP celebs.

[Gabe]

I don't think you seem like an S. Just my opinion.

Why isn't he an S?

[Haphazard]

Merc is BLUE.

That settles that.

[Jen]

I'm not THAT bad. I haven't actually met that many celebrities yet. I would imagine there are a lot of SFP and STP celebs.
Julia Roberts is an ESFJ. Have you met her? :devil:

Seems like everyone you know is on their way (or hoping) to becoming famous.

[Haight]

Haight: INTp
notta: INTj
Well, to be honest. . . we're as close to being the same person as two people can possibly be. Hence, whatever type we may be, we are both that type.

With that said, here are the only differences:

- I am slightly neater (I think that has to do with my mom/upbringing).
- She procastinates on small/minor things, while I do so on big/major things (but that's only true most of the time).
- She is slightly more competitive than I am.
- On cognitive process tests, my Si and Se are slightly more developed, but everything else is almost identical.

All and all, if there actually is a difference, then . . . If I'm an INTj, than she is an INTp. Moreover, if I am an INTp, than she is something between P & p.

[Jen]

I have no problem chewing people out, either, and that's a lot more NT than NF. :laugh:

Edit: there are a lot more feisty NF's around that you haven't been exposed to then. If pm and I hung out regularly we'd be tearing up DC. They'd see us coming and say, "Shit! Here come those two crazy bitches! RUN for your lives!" ;)

[Gabe]

ESTJ! I tell you!

I wouldn't be that suprised.

[Haphazard]

I have no problem chewing people out, either, and that's a lot more NT than NF.

Have you ever pissed off an INFP? I mean... seriously. *shudders*

[Haight]

I have no problem chewing people out, either, and that's a lot more NT than NF. NFs yell at me all the time. That doesn't mean anything.

[Rajah]

I don't think ENFP works for me either.

ENFP's profile is Ne Fi Te Si. There is no way in hell my Te is stronger than my Si. I have no Te.

Rajah, I know NFs can be logical, but I don't think NF works. The NF's priorities aren't set up the same way mine are. NFs are concerned with how solutions satisfy people's emotional needs (according to Kiersey). My solutions are more practical. I have no problem chewing people out, either, and that's a lot more NT than NF. I have a love for logic and organization more than my love for puppies or whatever it is NFs like. See, I don't even know. Granted I have good, nay, impeccable people skills, but those skills come from having a strong Ne and having grown up around funny people.

So far, I think ENTP or XNTP work the best.Aw, now, you're misreading NFs. It's not all puppies and sunshine. NFs can be moody sonofabitches too.

To me, you read as an NF. I can see a weaker F, but you still come across as an ENFP.

As for Te:

At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively.Seriously, don't you see that you do this even on the forum?

Also, from that site, "Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone’s ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else’s thought process."


Just saying.

[Gabe]

Xander is no T.

Why? because the avatar looks like Bob Dylan? (I'm assuming that your actual reason is even stupider).

[Jen]

Why? because the avatar looks like Bob Dylan? (I'm assuming that your actual reason is even stupider).
Isn't that a Sex Pistol?

[Gabe]

So am I the INTJ stereotype?

I don't know if that's a good thing, really. *eyes INTJf cautiously*

No, you're not an INTJ stereotype. You're actually more likely an INTJ than any of the INTJ stereotypes. At least that's why I haven't second-guessed your type.

[pure_mercury]

Julia Roberts is an ESFJ. Have you met her? :devil:

No, but I enjoy a good amount of her work. I never found her extraordinarily attractive, but she can act.

Seems like everyone you know is on their way (or hoping) to becoming famous.

That happens when you're a film student and a serious extrovert. Most of my friends IRL are weird, druggy Ns who want to be writers or psychologists or MDs. A couple of law school-types in there, as well.

[Gabe]

Isn't that a Sex Pistol?

I wouldn't really know, I listen almost exclusively to classical.

I guess if you say so.

[Jennifer]

Aw, now, you're misreading NFs. It's not all puppies and sunshine. NFs can be moody sonofabitches too.

I think that's not the point in question. It's the nuances of how the anger usually gets expressed, what tends to make the person mad, what they are willing to do and not do when they're upset, how they instinctively approach the release of their anger, etc., that is actually under debate.

I see a lot of the nuances and context getting dropped out of a thread like this, which will make any sort of consensus improbable.

i also see disagreements occurring based on type reads involving externalized behavior only (which is easily observable), versus type reads based on behavior + motivation (only some of which is observable), versus type reads based on motivations alone (which is not really observable by the general populace). What's the basis for one's type read of another person? Different conclusions can be reached depending on one's assumption of what proof is weighted more heavily.

[Edahn]

As for Te: "At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively."

Seriously, don't you see that you do this even on the forum?

Yes, but I'm a moderator here, too. I wouldn't want a job like this, and I know that Te would only be tertiary, but still, it's not as strong as my Fe, which would be the alternate tertiary function.

Even with that, I would say this: my "goals" in posting at this site are:

1. Test original ideas
2. Develop original ideas when replying to threads I find interesting
3. Having fun, cracking jokes, developing friendships
4. Give others advice by analyzing problems and finding solutions
5. Soliciting advice regarding my own problems

The order changes from time to time depending on how comfortable I am, but I don't see these goals as being too "Te."

NFs yell at me all the time. That doesn't mean anything.

Fair enough, although I think the style is different, and the concentration is different. Anytime I have a discussion with NFs, it always tends to digress and focus on the MANNER of communication rather than the communication itself. That bothers the living fuck out of me, and rings of T more than F.

[Jen]

^ do you not see how condescending you can be sometimes? You also appear frustrated a lot of the time. Would be interesting for someone on here to actually hang out with you irl, analyze you and report back to us with the results. fwiw Limey also thinks you're an NF.

[Nocap]

Someone give me evidence of Fi from Edahn. I don't think I've ever seen it.

I could pull up a dozen or so threads he's started employing Ti.

[Haphazard]

No, you're not an INTJ stereotype. You're actually more likely an INTJ than any of the INTJ stereotypes. At least that's why I haven't second-guessed your type.

Umm. Okay then.

[Nocap]

The order changes from time to time depending on how comfortable I am, but I don't see these goals as being too "Te."
Depends. Do your goals involve attaining some position (of power, prestige, or otherwise)?

Do they involve acquisition of things? How many of them do you want? Maybe you want 1 million dollars?

[Edahn]

^ do you not see how condescending you can be sometimes? You also appear frustrated a lot of the time. Would be interesting for someone on here to actually hang out with you irl, analyze you and report back to us with the results.

Condescending? Yeah. But, er...so what? I'm not really frustrated often at all, but some people :whistle: get on my nerves here and there. As for rl, I'm pretty normal. Bit shy at first. Probably be described as a little cocky but personable. I dunno. I think an LA meetup is in order.

fwiw Limey also thinks you're an NF.

INTPc brings out the F in me, just as this site brings out the T in me. Contrast effect, I guess.

Depends. Do your goals involve attaining some position (of power, prestige, or otherwise)?

Do they involve acquisition of things? How many of them do you want? Maybe you want 1 million dollars?

My goals are acquisition of information I can use to better understand myself and my surroundings. I've never really been interested in being rich, nor in having power. Prestige would be nice, but it's not at the top of my priority list.

[Nocap]

My goals are acquisition of information I can use to better understand myself and my surroundings.

Is that really a goal, or is it just something you do?


Sounds like the goal is actually to understand with collecting info is just to help to do that.

Not very Je.

[Edahn]

Is that really a goal, or is it just something you do?

It's my main motivation, so the former.

[Jen]

INTPc brings out the F in me, just as this site brings out the T in me. Contrast effect, I guess. I'm not sure how ENFP men are compared to ENFP women, but over at INTPc you're a little fish in a big pond whereas over here (where we're kinder and gentler) you seem to see yourself as a the big fish. No one is denying that you're not clever but seeing you and hustler go at it was telling for me anyway.

I do like that you seem to be searching for inner peace whatever your type. :)

[Nocap]

It's my main motivation, so the former.

Ok then, INTJ it is.

[Nocap]

Is that guy serious about all this?

Well?

[Edahn]

No one is denying that you're not clever...

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/shredtastical/I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

[digesthisickness]

i laughed when i read it.

[Jen]

^ care to share what type you think Edahn is. Also put your thinking caps away. I wasn't getting a dig at anyone, just letting Edahn know that people of all types can be clever not just NT's.

[Nocap]

I like this MBTI machine.

[Jen]

^ I have no clue what type you are. I'll ask Limey. He'll roll his eyes and tell me I am wasting valuable time but still what's one little question going to hurt?

[Nocap]

Here's a clue:

ENTP.

Sorry if that gives it away.

[Nocap]

Oops! I apologized... that uses F. I must be an ENFP.

KK I'm ENFP.

[digesthisickness]

^ care to share what type you think Edahn is. Also put your thinking caps away. I wasn't getting a dig at anyone, just letting Edahn know that people of all types can be clever not just NT's.

not really. as i was under the impression that it was supposed to just be a fun opinion thread, and since i shared mine, i've had people asking for clarification, explanations, and even PROOF.

that and i think edahn gets off on being an enigma, so i'll let him have it. no skin off my back.

[Nocap]

Proof is overrated. It's much easier to change our understanding as we see fit.

[Lurker]

Yes, but I'm a moderator here, too. I wouldn't want a job like this, and I know that Te would only be tertiary, but still, it's not as strong as my Fe, which would be the alternate tertiary function.No. You did the same on INTPc. And weren't you the one who wanted to create Central Central? And you also started a thread on giving people career advice and things like that. Not saying anything but that this is not out of line with Te.

Even with that, I would say this: my "goals" in posting at this site are:

1. Test original ideas
2. Develop original ideas when replying to threads I find interesting
3. Having fun, cracking jokes, developing friendships
4. Give others advice by analyzing problems and finding solutions
5. Soliciting advice regarding my own problems

The order changes from time to time depending on how comfortable I am, but I don't see these goals as being too "Te."Okay. The fact that you're creating goals for posting on this site is evidence of Te. I, for example, have no goals when I post here. In fact, I never think about how people are interrelating and whether they're comfortable and the future of posting and stuff like that. Nothing you've posted is out of line with ENFP.


Fair enough, although I think the style is different, and the concentration is different. Anytime I have a discussion with NFs, it always tends to digress and focus on the MANNER of communication rather than the communication itself. That bothers the living fuck out of me, and rings of T more than F.This is a good point. But it's also something you do. You tend to evaluate how we're communicating, not just substance. Your threads at INTPc are often about how we're talking and what our goals should be, rather than just doing it.


It's interesting.


BTW, this is Rajah. I stole my computer back. ;)

[Usehername]

Julia Roberts is an ESFJ. Have you met her? :devil:

Seems like everyone you know is on their way (or hoping) to becoming famous.

?!

IxTP, no? Likely an INTP?! I think you're seeing her acting shadow; if you examine her interpersonal life there's no way she's anything but an IxxP, and she's far more likely to speak her mind and seek clarity than harmony, meaning an IxTP, plus she oozes Ti Ne in interviews that are done by competent interviewers that can play off of her properly, IMO.

[Edahn]

that and i think edahn gets off on being an enigma, so i'll let him have it.

Eh. Not really.

No. You did the same on INTPc. And weren't you the one who wanted to create Central Central? And you also started a thread on giving people career advice and things like that. Not saying anything but that this is not out of line with Te.

Central Central was a kind of psych/social psych experiment more than anything. It wasn't about getting people to do anything or work as a team, but noticing how they do it. In other words, there was no goal behind it, which seems like what Te is based on that quote you supplied.

Okay. The fact that you're creating goals for posting on this site is evidence of Te. I, for example, have no goals when I post here. In fact, I never think about how people are interrelating and whether they're comfortable and the future of posting and stuff like that. Nothing you've posted is out of line with ENFP.


Well I haven't created goals consciously, but I thought about it and decided that that's what was going on. The "how people are interrelating" and meta-forum stuff, I'd think, is more an Ne thing than that an F thing. But I see what you're saying. Still though, it's something I observe by zooming out, not by anything that relates to my feewings.

This is a good point. But it's also something you do. You tend to evaluate how we're communicating, not just substance. Your threads at INTPc are often about how we're talking and what our goals should be, rather than just doing it.


Aha. Well, sometimes, yes, like the lynch mob threads. But other times, like Central Central, it's not so much about evaluation (which I think has to do with labeling and assigning values like "this is good, this is bad") but more about observation and understanding.

It's interesting.

For sho, and thanks. I didn't mean to come in and start a debate and put you on the defensive, either. But I guess a little clarification isn't so bad. I do care a lot about people and seeing them suffer bothers me a LOT. I'm getting more in touch with my feelings as well as other people's, too, so I can see why F seems like an attractive option. Anyway, I'll pull out now before this thread gets pregnant.

[Jennifer]

IxTP, no? Likely an INTP?! I think you're seeing her acting shadow

oops. I thought the "ESFJ" thing for Julia R was a joke. :blush:

[Usehername]

oops. I thought the "ESFJ" thing for Julia R was a joke. :blush:

Was I wrong and missed a joke? :huh: I think I'm right.

I think it's more a function of xxxJ types not driven by xNTx Knowledge Hunger (although unhealthy xNTJ can do the same) to come to quick conclusions without really trying to see what's there, and instead seeing what they want to see.

(Which is not a shot at the xxFJ types in this very specific situation, but rather a generalized analysis that perhaps some types not as knowledge-seeking but still closure driven are going to be erring more often than xxxP types or xNTJ types.)

[Lurker]

For sho, and thanks. I didn't mean to come in and start a debate and put you on the defensive, either.Hmm, I'm sorry if that's how I came across. I didn't mean for you to think I was being defensive about it. I genuinely have that opinion and that's about the end of it. At the end of the day (God, I hate that expression), it doesn't really matter what type you are. I think you're pretty spiffy as is.


Still Rajah here. Lurker thinks you're a flake. ;)

I kid!

[Edahn]

lolz

[Jennifer]

Was I wrong and missed a joke? :huh: I think I'm right.

:huh:

About which? (Now I'm confused!) Her being INxP or ESFJ??

As far as ESFJ actresses go, I have a suspicion Toni Collete might be one. She's quite talented; and if she's not ESFJ, she's played at least a few of them perfectly.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa233/shredtastical/I-see-what-you-did-there.jpg

Oh. You posted a picture of a cat.

You must be F.

[Jen]

So it's settled then. Edhan's type is LOLZ. Wheww glad that's over!

[Martoon]

As Ps get more stressed, they start to show negative J characteristics, like being stubborn to a ridiculous extent, but the reason to believe so has no evidence, as a J would insist on, all they have supporting it is internal judgment. The rigidity isn't helping them... they get more into self-preservation, but they can't balance it adequately as a normal J would. That sort of thing.

Oi! You failed me too.

I don't believe your statement to be true either.

I would expand, but I have to go to a baby shower. :doh:

Anyway, maybe Ivy can get Noah or Martoon to validate or reject your theory (since I know they're INTPs).

So Noah and I aren't addressed directly anymore? It all goes through Ivy now? ;)

Anyway, it's nice to be an INTP poster child, I guess. Regarding the post being referenced, I don't believe that I, personally, start moving toward any J characteristics (negative or otherwise) when stressed. In fact, when I get really stressed, I just shut down, become paralyzed, and stop taking any action at all. I just get very passive and resigned. If anything, I'd say it's like an extreme, unhealthy P characteristic.

But other INTPs may react differently. While I have no doubt that I'm INTP, my reaction doesn't necessarily represent the breed. I'm very non-aggressive (is that a passive way of saying "passive"?), and I really hate conflict, or having anyone upset (even if it's not directed at me). I have a high enneagram Type 9 score (calmness), and very low Type 8 (aggressiveness). A lot of INTPs will occasionally "rage", where they really go into a fit of anger. I've never done anything like that. I don't really do anger. I don't know how. I probably should.

[Mondo]

Wowzers!
I go on with my real life for a few hours and now I'm completely lost in this thread!
Haha!
I still think Xander and Edahn are INTP's.. not very strong on the I but INTP's nevertheless.

[Uberfuhrer]

Edahn has very well-developed Fe, I think.

[pure_mercury]

:huh:

About which? (Now I'm confused!) Her being INxP or ESFJ??

As far as ESFJ actresses go, I have a suspicion Toni Collete might be one. She's quite talented; and if she's not ESFJ, she's played at least a few of them perfectly.



Oh. You posted a picture of a cat.

You must be F.

Typelogic lists Sally Struthers, Mary Tyler Moore, Dixie Carter, and Sally Field as ESFJs. They all seem like really nice ladies. Jack Benny, Desi Arnaz, and Don Knotts are listed as the male ESFJ entertainers. I hope they update that list sometime soon.

[Ivy]

Typelogic lists Sally Struthers, Mary Tyler Moore, Dixie Carter, and Sally Field as ESFJs. They all seem like really nice ladies. Jack Benny, Desi Arnaz, and Don Knotts are listed as the male ESFJ entertainers. I hope they update that list sometime soon.

Man, that's a pretty old school list right there.

[Jeffster]

It's because you're so quintessentially ISFP.

Ditto.

Nah, y'all aren't getting off that easy. This topic is about long-winded explanations with lots of technical mumbo jumbo and random assertions. I want some of that too! :D


I have you as EsFP, Jeffster.


Okay, but WHY? ;)

[Jen]

Typelogic lists Sally Struthers, Mary Tyler Moore, Dixie Carter, and Sally Field as ESFJs. They all seem like really nice ladies. Jack Benny, Desi Arnaz, and Don Knotts are listed as the male ESFJ entertainers. I hope they update that list sometime soon.
I can so relate to Don Knotts. Seriously, he cracks me up.

[Jennifer]

Man, that's a pretty old school list right there.

With emphasis on OLD. (Yikes!)
At least Toni's probably only in her 30's.

Nah, y'all aren't getting off that easy. This topic is about long-winded explanations with lots of technical mumbo jumbo and random assertions. I want some of that too!

No, no, no -- you're an ISFP, you'd HATE that!

With me, it's directed toward myself, because it arises when I know I should be able to do something that I can't, for some reason. For instance - back to the skateboarding analogy - I'd have something worked out intellectually, but I'd fail initially when it came to the physical aspect. And after a series of failed attempts, I'd yell out something like, "Haight! You're an idiot! You have push down and then out. Dammit!

However, more times than not, I'd end up accomplishing that which I ranted about generally a minute or five later. So it helped with focusing, in a way.

So as usual, it has to do with me not living up to me. I'm selfish even when angry, in other words.

That sounds too familiar. Except with me, it was physical skills like you describe, OR making a mistake in logic / not understanding something, OR failing in one of my responsibilities that I had internalized. I made self-deprecation an artform and would either ridicule myself out loud or scream at myself in my head until I got it right.

I didn't have external outbursts involving other people until I reached my 20's and forced to be in proximity to other people, which meant often that when there was emotional stress and I couldn't get away, well, then it got uh-gly.

[Magic Poriferan]

WTF?!??!?!?!?

First Edahn, now you?

I'm noticing an interesting pattern emerge here.


No, no, no, no... I beg out of your own best interest, don't believe anything he says.

[heart]

Doood -- he's freaking studying to become a BUDDHIST. That doesn't make you ENFP. Or INFP.

Agreed! The idea of everyone being one and combining in some sort of hive mind nirvana is an anathema to me!

[CaptainChick]

No, no, no, no... I beg out of your own best interest, don't believe anything he says.
Pssht, he knows damn well that he is no ENFP, but surely someone else (falsely) accused him of such.

[Jeffster]

No, no, no -- you're an ISFP, you'd HATE that!


Still copping out, eh? :alttongue:

[Jen]

nocapsyz is no ENTJ. that is just preposterous. *heads back to the arcade to kick archery 2000 ass*

[whatever]

no. he won't. but he will find himself hilariously clever when he pretends to.

... and that's when he'll be dissapointed by the number of atheists on the site I suppose! :D

[digesthisickness]

... and that's when he'll be dissapointed by the number of atheists on the site I suppose! :D

eh. he'd just take credit for converting them.

[whatever]

eh. he'd just take credit for converting them.

damn intjs and thier god complexes...

[htb]

Someone PM me if my name comes up. I can't be bothered reading this thread anymore.Smart choice. Incidentally, you had it right way back with INFP; though I would entertain ISFP, too.

[Jen]

^ what type does the ENTJ think I am?

[htb]

Enneagram Type 2, for sure. I'd accept ENFJ based on compliments given to you as get-together hostess.

[Jen]

Thanks. It's always interesting how others view you. I've taken the enneagram many times and more often times than not, I score 3w4.

[Mort Belfry]

Yup, he most certaintly is.

On that note, I've mistyped myself. Anyone wanna take a guess as to what I might be? :D

No!

ENFJ?

[Evan]

edahn as ENTP makes the most sense. (i know i'm a few pages behind but bleh)

[Haight]

^ what type does the ENTJ think I am?The begging is kinda sad. . .

Don't you have a thread about your type that you just created a couple days ago?

[Jen]

The begging is kinda sad. . .

Don't you have a thread about your type that you just created a couple days ago?what crawled up your ass and bit you? that was hardly begging and he answered right away and didn't appear irritated so why are you bitching? come to think of it you do that a lot lately. try and be happy.

[htb]

The begging is kinda sad. . . Don't you have a thread about your type that you just created a couple days ago?Given that the only alternative is the closed conversation between half a dozen INTPc members, change in whatever form is welcome.

[entropie]

So , I am back online, woow it has been nearly 20 new pages since yesterday nite, ouh my god xD

[entropie]

I would guess Edahn is iNTj or eNTj . They make up for good martyrs and if they develop pretty and have a chance to implement their abilities they make good con guys xD.

Just an idea here :)

[Haight]

what crawled up your ass and bit you? that was hardly begging and he answered right away and didn't appear irritated so why are you bitching? come to think of it you do that a lot lately. try and be happy.You've asked that question a few times in this thread. But I just figured it out. . .

You started a thread about your type - another one, to be more specific - then when you didn't like the opinions of the posters, you started this thread about you being "misstyped," while making it seem like it's about everyone.

I get it now!

EDIT: One more thing. . . is it possible for you to respond to me, if you so choose, without attempting to flame?

[Nocap]

what crawled up your ass and bit you? that was hardly begging and he answered right away and didn't appear irritated so why are you bitching? come to think of it you do that a lot lately. try and be happy.

These posts are the reason I voted ESFJ.

[Evan]

These posts are the reason I voted ESFJ.

meh. he was being an asshole completely unnecessarily. i probably would've responded like that too.

[zarc]

No!

ENFJ?

I thought that, yea. However, after some reflection (and a full day's rest) I've changed my mind. I could be something else though.

I would guess Edahn is iNTj or eNTj . They make up for good martyrs and if they develop pretty and have a chance to implement their abilities they make good con guys xD.

Just an idea here :)

Erm. I could see ENTP for him. NTJ? No..

[entropie]

ah, did I wrote NT, I meant NF... well discard this anyway. I see you are serious here :)

[Nocap]

meh. he was being an asshole completely unnecessarily.Uh... so?

Responding that way is what I'd expect from an Fe dominant. I don't think she's N (and the post sort of supports Sishness -- not that i'm basing my calculations on a single post) so I voted ESFJ in her thread.


i probably would've responded like that too.You didn't...

[AllAboutSoul]

Typelogic lists Sally Struthers, Mary Tyler Moore, Dixie Carter, and Sally Field as ESFJs. They all seem like really nice ladies. Jack Benny, Desi Arnaz, and Don Knotts are listed as the male ESFJ entertainers. I hope they update that list sometime soon.

Man, that's a pretty old school list right there.


At least I've heard of them. The newer breed not so much.

:dry:

[toonia]

I don't get angry; I just get frustrated. And usually it's directed inward. I haven't expressed anger outwardly at other people since I was a kid, I don't think. If I were to actually blow up at someone, I would feel like a five year old, and berate myself for days. This is not to say I never get cranky (I def. do) or that I never get snarky (guilty). But not pure anger/rage. And I never play dirty. I could know 800 horrible things about someone and never bring them up in an argument, no matter how much they provoked me.

Edit: upon thinking about it more, I do feel anger sometimes, but I don't express it in the usual ways, I guess. It's possible that i just mull it over and analyze it so much it morphs into something else?
That sounds like the ideal way to be imo.

I have a weird relationship to anger and don't often feel it - sometimes I can't even see it when others can. For me anger turns almost immediately to anxiety, and then I get sleepy once I've worn myself out.

[Thursday]

I don't get angry; I just get frustrated. And usually it's directed inward. I haven't expressed anger outwardly at other people since I was a kid, I don't think. If I were to actually blow up at someone, I would feel like a five year old, and berate myself for days. This is not to say I never get cranky (I def. do) or that I never get snarky (guilty). But not pure anger/rage. And I never play dirty. I could know 800 horrible things about someone and never bring them up in an argument, no matter how much they provoked me.

Edit: upon thinking about it more, I do feel anger sometimes, but I don't express it in the usual ways, I guess. It's possible that i just mull it over and analyze it so much it morphs into something else?

Ditto
Damn Ti

[Xander]

Xander I don't have time to write you an essay but you're an NTP. I'll report back after we (you me and limey) get together the next we're in the UK and let everyone know your true type.
Great... ENFP here we come... :dont:
btw what type do you think I am?
Well I'm not too sure about ENFJ. You've yet to get really feisty from what I've seen and that's something I look for in ENFJs. I'm also not familiar with you crusading for anything in particular.... There again I'd rule out ENFP (I don't get the feeling that I've been hit by a buick with shag-pile carpet on the outside...usually). INFP is another I'd be tempted to rule out, I've not seen any sergeant type attitude and you seem to open (Mr Carebear stuffs that one up but I find INFPs are usually guarded). ESFJ would be interesting if it were true... but I'd imagine you'd give Limey a headache. My only other recourse is ENTJ and I don't get the whole 'world is layed out' vibe from you.

Nah I'll stick with ENFJ. I'll know more once I see the dynamic you.

Why? because the avatar looks like Bob Dylan? (I'm assuming that your actual reason is even stupider).
:thelook:


:doh:
Isn't that a Sex Pistol?

A rotten truth to be sure but yes. That'd be Mr Lydon.

[Xander]

Xander - ENTP

Highly theoretical without needless closure

Seconded.

Come on peeps. Needless. Hello... Not needed....impractical. Not sensible to cling to.

Jeez you lose a couple of bad traits and all of a sudden you're either an extrovert or an F!!

(or BOTH!!! :eek: )

[Jen]

meh. he was being an asshole completely unnecessarily. i probably would've responded like that too.I couldn't agree more. My question to htb was valid and relevant to the OP.

[Haight]

These posts are the reason I voted ESFJ.I couldn't agree more.

[Jen]

^ two of a kind.

[Jennifer]

Still copping out, eh? :alttongue:

I'm lazy. Why recreate the wheel? ;)

Jeez you lose a couple of bad traits and all of a sudden you're either an extrovert or an F!!(or BOTH!!! :eek: )

LOLCATZ!

[Thursday]

yeah
but Jen is an ESFJ like i'm an INFP

[booyalab]

yeah
but Jen is an ESFJ like i'm an INFP

so she's ESFP?

[nottaprettygal]

NPG - ISTJ

I certainly don't identify with having obligations and a sense of duty like ISTJs. Also, the dominant function of ISTJs is Introverted Sensing, which generally requires an attention to detail that I do not possess.

Anyway, curious to hear your thoughts unless, of course, you just typed me as an ISTJ because you don't like me. If that's the case, screw off.

[Jeffster]

I'm lazy. Why recreate the wheel? ;)


Because it's FUN! :D

[SolitaryWalker]

Magic Poriferan is not an INTP.

Reasons.

1)It is very clear that he is an Introverted Judger as he professes so. Very clear that he is an Intuitive. (Such claims could be backed up with the material he has posted, though not necessary at this juncture as they are irrelevant to the main point.)

2)He is unlikely to be a dominant Introverted Thinker for the following reasons.
-Does not appear to have a natural aptitude for logic because he frequently makes ostensibly contradictory claims with little effort to correct them. In fact, it seems clear that he hardly notices this.
-His thinking does not flow in an organized fashion. For it is torrential and chaotic. A logical thinker relates his ideas in terms of their logical consistency to each other. Magic does not seem to be doing this. Manifestly lacks internal structure and altogether internal consistency.


Examples.

Point 2: Does not appear to have a natural aptitude for logic because he frequently makes ostensibly contradictory claims with little effort to correct them. In fact, it seems clear that he hardly notices this.

Magic has engaged me in the following dialogue.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nt-rationale/6611-f-mystery-debunked-2.html

In post 198 he states the following.


"Well, BlueWing, it seems more like you're just using every method in the book to convince yourself, and possible even others, that you're right.
That's really not the same as seeking to learn."

Summary: You are just trying to convince yourself that you are right.

In the post to follow, (199), I respond rather sardonically. Oh of course! Obviously my purpose is not to seek after the truth, but after honor of some kind! Hence my point was, convincing yourself that you are right is not important. Convincing others is even less important than convincing yourself. What is truly important is making sure that you know the truth. Approval of others, or any deeply felt personal conviction is not necessary. Truth stands on its own right. A proposition is either true, or it is false, irrespectively of how I or anyone else feels about this. In short, nothing but the truth matters, it is purely impersonal and the human element is irrelevant to this.

Magic responds in post 200.

"I'd be the last person to say that truth was a matter of giving into popular sentiment. That has nothing to do with my point about learnng through the process of debate. It has nothing to do with my point about going too far to confirm your own beliefs."

Summary: Point 1:I never stated that truth has something to do with how people feel about it! Point 2:You should learn through debating! (?..not sure what he meant by this)

I have difficulty seeing how the 2 claims are connected. In the first claim he states that he agrees with my earlier point that truth is purely impersonal and how people feel about this does not matter. Yet in the second point he seems to insinuate that debating, or dialogue with others should help you learn. If he meant that you should consider the ideas of other people, and analyze them to see if they are true, and learn by entertaining ideas of others, accepting other ideas if it becomes clearly they are true (not because other people feel you should accept them), than his 2nd claim is consistent with the first.

Hence, in such a case his point 1 is, truth is purely impersonal, how people feel about it does not matter. His point 2 is, you can still get closer to the truth by discussing ideas with people without embracing what they say only because they feel strongly about what they say.

Now onto the third point.

Point 3: It has nothing to do with my point about going too far to confirm your own beliefs.

Magic states that what he has just said has 'nothing to do' with BlueWing going too far to confirm his biases.

Claim 2 and Claim 3 are slightly inconsistent. In claim 2 Magic exhorts bluewing to listen to others, not necessarily to buy into their claims because of how strongly they feel about them. Listening to others is means to the end of avoiding your own biases by entertaining ideas foreign to yours. Thus, you should learn from discussion with others to avoid the confirmation of your own biases. This is the explicit claim Magic Poriferan makes in point 2.

Yet in his very next sentence, point 3, he renounces this very claim--he states that his earlier assertions had NOTHING to do with BlueWing going too far to confirm his own biases.





He starts his sentence with 'I'm disgusted', as a value judgment. This was said in a context which was supposed to be in the realm of impersonal discussion. One who is in closest affinity with Thinking, or a dominant Thinker would rely on value judgments as means of last resort. Yet Magic is eager to pronounce such statements quickly, even in places where they are not relevant.

We all make value judgments, as well have Feeling within their our psychic economy. The difference between a Thinking type and a Feeling type is that the Thinker is in closer natural affinity with his Thinking than Feeling. He uses Thinking first and most naturally. Feeling least naturally. Very often intense Thinking types, especially in their youth (Magic's profile indicates that he is 19 years of age, therefore in his youth), are not comfortable with direct use of Feeling. Most of us do not develop our inferior function to a sound degree till our late 30s or 40s, this means that we are not naturally comfortable using such a function fluently in early stages of our lives. Especially would not be comfortable enough to use our inferior function as explicitly in the context where the dominant function is highly vouched for. In other words, a natural Thinker in this situation would be uncomfortable making explicit value judgments in Earnestness for many reasons, salient of which is that the situation evokes impersonal judgment most of all which is antithetical to value judgment.

It is clear that I have made value judgments in that thread, yet the difference between mine and that of Magic is that mine were clearly said in jest and were not directly expressed. They were subtle. Magic's proposition is not subtle, it is explicit. 'I am disgusted'.

Thus, in the last 2 points it is insinuated that Magic is unlikely to have Feeling as an inferior function because he uses it explicitly in a context where Feeling is not evoked directly, and his implicit attitude of 'winner/looser' in debate insinuates a preferrence for Extroverted Thinking rather than Introverted.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/246100-post201.html

In post 201, I reiterate that truth is an end in itself and how people feel about the truth does not matter. Doing otherwise leads to absurd conclusions, as for example, if a televangelist screams at me 'God exists!' I should not buy his argument only because he feels strongly about it. I should not buy it because he has not given any rationale to support the aforementioned proposition.

Indeed, Magic's claims in the previous posts were not clearly stated and did not follow a clear pattern (one of my initial criticisms of his thought concerning the likelihood of him having a Thinking preferrence). This is why it took me several paragraphs to decipher and summarize his message.

Accordingly, in response to his claim, I merely had to reiterate my earlier proposition that truth is objective and impersonal in its own right as it was close to impossible to respond to Magic'c proposition on the spot. Only now, after much careful reflection I think I have figured out what he was saying, yet it is certainly far from clear what he had in mind.

Again, the reason for this is the lack of logical interrelation between his thoughts. They seem to be disconnected. As again, I draw the reader's attention to my earlier proposition.



"Summary: Point 1:I never stated that truth has something to do with how people feel about it! Point 2:You should learn through debating! (?..not sure what he meant by this)I have difficulty seeing how the 2 claims are connected. In the first claim he states that he agrees with my earlier point that truth is purely impersonal and how people feel about this does not matter. Yet in the second point he seems to insinuate that debating, or dialogue with others should help you learn. "

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/246098-post200.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Magic responds to my post 201 where I reiterate my claim that debating is strictly concerned with the pursuit of truth. One should not be moved by the passions of others in his decision whether he ought or ought not to change his mind. (Hence my televangelist example)

In post 202 he responds.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/246106-post202.html


"Yes... That's right. I would not make descisions based on what people like. "

Magic agrees in this statement that we should not make decisions concerning the truth based on what people like.

His next sentence is slightly inconsistent with the previous.

"Most people here have concluded that you have miserably failed to understand what is right. "

What have we here?

In claim 1 magic states that one should not make decisions based concerning the truth based on what people like or dislike. Yet in the following claim he states that most people have concludes that BlueWing has 'miserably failed to understand what is right' or that BlueWing is wrong. (The reader should take note of the choice of words employed by magic. Miserably failed to understand what is 'right', not what is true. Right is in closer affinity with right in terms of moral rectitude than true in terms of a simple problem of logic. Miserably failed is certainly an intensely emotionally loaded terminology misfitting the impersonal environment it is placed in. Again, this goes in support of my earlier claim that a natural Thinking would have his dispassionate faculties evoked in a discussion concerning ethics of epistemology, or what and by what means should a thinker accept as the truth. Yet Magic wastes no time to load his propositions with a value judgment. Once more, here he is very explicit 'miserably failed' about his value judgment, whilst most Thinkers, especially of his age would be rather subtle about their value judgments. Their Feeling faculties would be much less evoked than their Thinking faculties and therefore the former would be overshadowed by the latter. Overshadowed to such a great degree where there simply would not be enough room for such an overt value judgment as 'miserably failed'. A thinker in such a case likely would state that BlueWing's claim was false, or incorrect, or he has arrived at a mistaken notion. He would treat the matter as more impersonal than personal. Yet Magic presents the situation as if BlueWing is on a quest for something of personal significance, something that is not cold and dispassionate as the truth, but something that we are fully emotionally engaged in.)

Thus here we see that the two claims are first of all irrelevant, or for the very least only tangentially relevant, as I remind the reader than in the first claim Magic states that from the standpoint of truth it does not matter how other people feel, yet in the second claim he states that most people have agreed that BlueWing is wrong. Difficult to see the logical connection between the two claims. They are more antithetical to one another rather than in support of one another.

In sentence 3. Magic States

"They too, use reasoning, and critical analysis, and logic to combat you."

This claim is logically connected to his claim 2 indeed. Most people have agreed that you have false beliefs, and they used faculties of critical thought as likely means to the end of arriving at a proposition that you harbor false beliefs. This is not exactly what Magic maintains, yet this is the most efficient way I see to make sense of his proposition.

Thus in claim 2 Magic proposes that people have agreed that BlueWing is 'wrong', and in proposition 3 he states that they were qualified to make such a judgment because they used faculties of critical analysis.

No contradiction immanent in this set.

What do we see as an entailment of claims 2 and 3? People have agreed that you're wrong. They are qualified to make such a judgment, therefore because they are qualified, I insinuate magic shall next state that I should embrace their judgment. (Will Magic make such a claim next in proposition 4, 5 or 6? Lets find out..)

If he would, however, this shall contradict is claims 1.

"Yes... That's right. I would not make descisions based on what people like."

Namely, that, as aforementioned, one should not accept certain propositions as true strictly on behalf of testimony of others. This is the famous informal fallacy of an appeal ot authority. Or believing a proposition because someone of authority has made the claim and not because we see reasons in their own right to believe it true.

Does Magic Poriferan commit the fallacy of an appeal to authority in this case? Lets investigate onto claims 4, 5 and 6.

Proposition 4: "Plurality isn't everything, it's not even much, but it does account for something. " Magic Poriferan.

Summary: Plurality does not mean all. (It is not even everything.) It does not mean much. "Its not even much". But it means something. "but it does account for something"

Okay, what do we say about this?

Magic's main claim in proposition 4 is that plurality means something. This contradicts his claim 1, as I have interpreted it to mean that one should not embrace ideas as the truth based on opinions of others or 'plurality'.

Yet, here Magic insinuates that 'plurality' should play some role in one's decision concerning what he should or should not accept as the truth.

Magic's claim 1 and claim 4 could be rendered consistent, since he did not say that the opinions of others should not play any role in one's decision concerning what is true, he only said that one would not a decision wholly based on what others think. Yet he should still be directly influenced by what others think in this decision to some degree. 'Plurality means something'.

This may exonerate magic from the previous charge of contradiction, yet not from the charge of informal fallacy of appeal to authority. He states that 'plurality must mean something'. Or in other words, to some degree it should directly impact how one thinks. Or in other words, we are to be influenced to whatever degree Magic shall prescribe (not exactly clear how much 'something' is), solely by virtue of 'plurality'. Not independent reasoning. This is a fallacy of an appeal to authority as credence is given to a proposition based on testimony of others and not reasoning.

Lets examine his proposition 4 one more time.

Proposition 4: "Plurality isn't everything, it's not even much, but it does account for something. "

Only the third part of the sentence is necessary to make the point. First two parts 'plurality is not everything, it is not even much' are superfluous. They are emotive expressions rather than terms stated from a linguistically precise standpoint. Isn't 'everything' and 'isn't much' are far from clearly defined terms. Such fuzziness of thinking is not at all indicative of a natural logician equipped with Introverted Thinking as his dominant faculty. This is in allusion to my earlier criticism concerning Magic's lack of clear structure in thought.

Proposition 5: "If a large group of people, including people you know should be skilled with logic and possesing of large educations, tell you that you are wrong, all for the same reasons...you might want to consider that they're right. Just consider it. "

Ah, now that is different! He does not state that only because people say you are wrong, you must assume that you are. You should merely entertain their propositions from a dispassionate angle. It is certainly the case that all ideas should be entertained from a dispassionate angle, irrespectively of where they came from, to say that you should entertain them only because large group of people insist on this is a tacit appeal to authority in its own right. A proposition is either meritorious or not by virtue of itself, the authority it is supported by isnt relevant.

Magic would be exonerated from the fallacy of an appeal to authority if he simply said 'just think about this, and see if it is true', but this is not what he maintained. The driving force behind the necessity to consider the proposition is that it has been vouched for by others. Therefore this insinuates the need to be directly influenced by the will of others. This is inconsistent with Magic's proposition 1.
"Yes... That's right. I would not make descisions based on what people like."


Proposition 6:"Consistency, repetition, plurality... You do understand pragmatic learning, don't you? Empiricism?"

Because many people have repetitively stated a claim, there must be something to what they say. This is an overt informal fallacy of an appeal to authority. In proposition 6 it is stated explicitly that there is something to an idea only because of 'plurality'.

What could he have meant by 'consistency, repitition'. Perhaps because he has mentioned not only 'plurality' but also consistency and repetition, it may not follow that all he is saying in this claim is that if so many people buy it, there must be something to it.

He may easily have meant that by virtue of law of induction, as for example, since so many times when most people said X was the case, they were right. They were right 9 previous times, they will probably be right the 10th time. This claim would have been inductively cogent if he had managed to cite evidence of most people having made a proposition very often in the past and have been correct. It is certainly the case that when most experts agree on a proposition, they are right most of the time. Yet Magic needs to show that the people who have disagreed with BlueWing were experts, or a group of individuals who have in the past made decisions as a group and were right most of the time. Because he has not cited such evidence, the claim is not inductively cogent.

It should be noted however, that it may be prudent to believe that what experts say, when many of them combine to make a decision, as they are usually right. Usually, however, not always. But this is not justifiable in terms of pure reasoning itself. It is an informal fallacy of an appeal to authority because credence is given to a proposition not by virtue of validity or soundness, but by virtue of the proposition having been vouched for by proper authorities. There have been many instances in intellectual history where the majority of experts have been wrong. A striking case in point is Galileo's discovery concerning Laws of gravity which have contravened the Aristotelian dogma endorsed by most scholars of the day. Discovery concerning roundness of earth and rotation of Earth around the sun and not vice versa is another example. Most scholars of the day held for vice versa to be the case.

Breakthroughs in science and philosophy have been made not by virtue of the practical decision that Magic advocates, namely 'experts are right most of the time, so it is wise to listen to them', but by virtue of thinkers having recognized such reasoning as fallacious. They have sought to figure out how the world works on their own endeavor instead of taking the word of the authorities for face value.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above argument gives us reasons to believe that Magic is not an INTP. The question of what his true type is requires a seperate argument.

[Rajah]

Jesus Christ, BlueWing, will you just admit you're an INTJ already?


And I read through the coherent bits of your Magic Poriferan critique. I don't think those suffice to support your claim.

[Tallulah]

I couldn't plow through all of BW's post, but I do think Magic's INTP.

[LucrativeSid]

Holy shit, BlueWing. That was very interesting. I liked it! I just can't believe you spent that much time on it. I'm sure that you probably enjoyed doing it, though.

[Jeffster]

I just can't believe you spent that much time on it. I'm sure that you probably enjoyed doing it, though.

Hmmm..BlueWing = ISTP? :D

[SolitaryWalker]

In my previous piece I have drawn the reader's attention to how comfortably he uses the Feeling faculty. How easily it is evoked in situations where there seem to be little stimuli for Feeling. This is anathema for a 'Thinking preferrence'. A Thinking type is one who is in closest naturaly affinity with Thinking and in least natural affinity with Feeling. Therefore his Feeling is not easily evoked.

Below I shall offer more reasons to believe that Magic's Feeling is very easily evoked.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/130610-post63.html

Here we witness a confrontation between two members. Member B holds that member A has launched an implicit insult. Member responds with an explicit insult.

Magic explains the situation as follows.

AdmiralBabe, I feel I must explain some things.

"His rhetorical questions may have seemed to be rather offensive in the "I thought all black people loved fried chicken" sort of way, but they were open questions never the less. A simple "no" to his silly question would be fine.As absurd as the pretense of his ideas may seem, he is being cordial and constructive about it. Your throwing profanities at someone is not the way to do things"

Thus magic states that it is not clear that the insults were explicit. Yet he does not phrase this as I did, or as a logician would. He is very fuzzy about it and habitually makes his value judgments along the way. 'Rather offensive'. 'would be fine' 'silly questions'.

"If what he was doing really was an attack and an insult, then be the better person. Two wrongs don't make a right. Your response was indeed much more inflammatory than anything he's said, and it could have caused escalation. Don't make matters worse."

The quoted piece above in combination with this one evince a value judgment. He preaches, "two wrongs dont make a right" "Dont make matters worse". He offers his values as guidance.

"I am quite familiar with how a lot of user feels about BlueWing, but don't let it get the better of you and don't let it derail the forum."

Once more, personal advice. Founded on value judgment. Not dispassionate reasoning.

Here we should note that Magic's work is more akin to Introverted Feeling than Extroverted. Noone in the thread suggested such values. Noone was up for conciliation. And certainly the values he preached are not well endorsed by our community at MBTIc. Clearly they are internally derived. He did what he felt was right, irrespectively of the external climate.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/226841-post27.html

Recently Kiddo has announced his resignation. Magic Poriferan responds to ridicule of Kiddo as follows.

"Cut it out, people.

On one hand, there's a lot of reasons he might decide to go, so let him go. Don't gaurantee this is going to be one of those annoying situations where the person is permanently half-way out the door. "

A lot of reasons he might decide to go, Magic states, so let him go. Clearly concerned with the individual first and foremost. His value judgments again ran contrary to the forum culture and the environment of the thread. Almost entirely internally grounded.

This post clearly shows he is first and foremost concerned with the welfare of the individual. As in the previous post as well, he was trying to get one of the members involved in the Convocation to arrive at a sense of personal conciliation and harmony with the situation. He made no exhortation to community virtues.

"But secondly, stop insulting him too. Think what you will of him or this topic, I don't see any point in getting all snarky at him. And I know, he was a very snarky person himself, but that doesn't justify anything. Didn't Gandhi tell us tb be the change we want to see in the world? Don't be hyprocrites. "

In a typical Fi fashion, he states that Kiddo may have been a culprit, but no need to grill him. Very well known Fi tendency to try to forgive all and punish as little as possible.

High Ideals again, wholly out of sync with the values of the community and the emotional climate. Internally grounded and first and foremost concerned with the individual and his personal harmony of Feelings.

Manifest Fi.

Is Magic Intuitive? I doubt this claim needs further exposition as this is a truism.

Could he be an ENFP rather than an INFP? Unlikely, our Extroverted Intuitive heroes and heroines of this site such as substitute, CzeCze, CaptainChick and Liquid Laser he lacks the 'knack of the performer'. Does not have the ability to interact with the external environment fluently and effortlessly influence large audiences. Has little interest in becoming adaptable and juggling many interactions and activities, and is lacks what ought to be considered a pedigree of Extroverted Intuition. Natural knack and drive to see the big picture simultaneously and see both sides to a situation. This is not to say that Magic is myopic or lacks the gifts pertaining to seeing the whole board and understanding the perspective of others, this talent is clearly much less expressed in him than in the four aforementioned individuals.

It is also the case that due to his aforementioned lack of a gift of a performer, unlike the 4 aforementioned Extroverted Intuitive figures he has little interest in entertaining the audience or making his message interesting to others. He simply seems to wish to state his personal values (as he did in the previous 2 examples) having no more than 1 person he is talking to understand him. He is not reaching out to a wide audience. As a typical primary Introverted Judger, simply content with living out his values, interaction with the external environment, seems to be of much less inspiration to Magic than to our four afoermentioned characters.

Manifestly, as my first post has evinced, Magic is not a clear communicator. It is often difficult for one to understand what he had in mind. Almost all ENFPs on this board tend to have few struggles making their meaning clear to others.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Further evidence to adduce that Magic Poriferan is a Feeler.

In the aforementioned thread, MP is in discussion with digestthisickness.

"why would you self-comfort if you honestly think everyone else is wrong?

being wrong and not knowing it may as well be being right to that person."

She asks him the following question, why would somebody want self-comfort if they earnestly think they are right. Why do they want approval?

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/246555-post229.html

Magic responds..

That's not how it works.

"The point here is that the person only reinforces their belief that they are right to seek comfort. Their need for comfort is why they've declared that everyone else is wrong in the first place. It comes out of a fear of failure and compromise. Think of it as a form of cogntive dissonance. "

Basically here he states that objective truth has nothing to do with feeling like you're right. The whole idea of thinking you're right is means to the end of self-comfort. Such a perspective clearly discards the radical T notion that I have endorsed, namely that truth is purely objective and impersonal, has nothing to do with my personal will or the will of anyone else. No matter how great in status or number.

Later in that discussion, when digesthisickness displays a negative reaction to Magic's proposition. He states ' it is only an assumption!'. What fervent love of truth!

Magic starts this thread, as a complaint on why romantic mentality is not valued enough in our society.

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/relationships/6122-need-love-condemned.html


In the very end, he states the following in red font.
"*I suppose, at this point, it's amazingly obvious that intimacy is my primary instinct*
__________________"

Pursuit of love is his primary value, he proposes. Much of the above post was dedicated to showing how we NEED to love and be loved. Clearly more indicative of a feeling based mindset, simply because he deems for love to be paramount, the most important thing, and something that is purely a 'must' which he supports with great passion and force of personality, not with argument.

[MacGuffin]

Well, I'm not going through all that and analyzing it point by point, but I can quickly blow one conclusion out of the water:

We all make value judgments, as well have Feeling within their our psychic economy. The difference between a Thinking type and a Feeling type is that the Thinker is in closer natural affinity with his Thinking than Feeling. He uses Thinking first and most naturally. Feeling least naturally. Very often intense Thinking types, especially in their youth (Magic's profile indicates that he is 19 years of age, therefore in his youth), are not comfortable with direct use of Feeling. Most of us do not develop our inferior function to a sound degree till our late 30s or 40s, this means that we are not naturally comfortable using such a function fluently in early stages of our lives. Especially would not be comfortable enough to use our inferior function as explicitly in the context where the dominant function is highly vouched for. In other words, a natural Thinker in this situation would be uncomfortable making explicit value judgments in Earnestness for many reasons, salient of which is that the situation evokes impersonal judgment most of all which is antithetical to value judgment.

This is exactly wrong. Yes, Thinkers do develop their Feeling abilities as they age. Which is why when they are younger they often lose control of their emotions and a let it short-circuit their thinking side. Magic's reaction is typical of one that has yet to master that side of themselves. Thinkers do not mature from unemotional robots into well-rounded people. They can have explosive tempers and emotional outbursts on par with any Feeler.

[heart]

:shocking: BlueWing makes a very good case here.

[Geoff]

I certainly don't identify with having obligations and a sense of duty like ISTJs. Also, the dominant function of ISTJs is Introverted Sensing, which generally requires an attention to detail that I do not possess.

Anyway, curious to hear your thoughts unless, of course, you just typed me as an ISTJ because you don't like me. If that's the case, screw off.

I'd be amazed if you are ISTJ. It's not for any great "intuitive" reason (either by me, or visible in you) but simply because you are nothing like the confirmed three ISTJs I know IRL. It just feels... alien.

[Magic Poriferan]

Magic Poriferan is not an INTP.

[yadda, yadda, yadda,]


I'm so torn by a sense of obligation to address this, and a total lack of interest in the actual process of doing it. :dry:

[disregard]

You must.

[Night]

BlueWing, if nothing else, you present a substantive argument.
I enjoy this about you. It makes the process of deconstruction that much more satisfying.

Thick, like pumpkin guts. Orange fingernails.

[Nocap]

I'm...obligation...

SJ.

I'm faster than BW. :)

[SolitaryWalker]

Well, I'm not going through all that and analyzing it point by point, but I can quickly blow one conclusion out of the water:


This is exactly wrong. Yes, Thinkers do develop their Feeling abilities as they age. Which is why when they are younger they often lose control of their emotions and a let it short-circuit their thinking side. Magic's reaction is typical of one that has yet to master that side of themselves. Thinkers do not mature from unemotional robots into well-rounded people. They can have explosive tempers and emotional outbursts on par with any Feeler.

You are absolutely right that mature thinkers have more control over their emotions than immature thinkers.

However, we should ask, what happens when a Thinker looses control of his emotions?

In our traditional wisdom we hold that it is usually the woman who is the overly emotional and spins out of control when she has a fit. This is a classical immature Feeler act. Going wild with emotions altogether.

How do immature thinkers behave in relationships with such women? They often are verbally and physically abusive, under the delusion they are being calm and deliberate. They dont entirely loose control. They just let their feelings get the best of them. If you were to ask them why they abused their ex, they'd have a rationale of some kind, when its clear their passions got the best of them.

Yet, if you ask a Feeler or the aforementioned woman, she probably would say she only felt this way.

It is indeed that the case that both the former and the latter loose control over their emotions. The difference between the two is that the former is implicit about this, whilst the latter explicit.

Magic, as a Feeler states, 'I am disgusted'. When I'd feel disgusted or any profoundly negative passion, my reaction could often be depicted as 'temper tantrums encased in intellectual language' as one of my ENFP acquaintances depicted this. The more immature I used to be, the more loss of control I've epxerienced that you described. Yet, make no mistake about it. This is different from the Feeler's loss of control in the regard that it is subtle with pretentions to be purely intellectual, in the case of the latter it is explicit.

I've made this point in my first post.

[Thursday]

Magic ISTJ ?
wa ?

[CaptainChick]

MP, don't hate me, but you do seem kind of F-ish to me.

:peepwall:

[Nocap]

Magic ISTJ ?
wa ?

Not serious.

I am serious when I say that I don't think even for one second that Magic is a T.

Intuitive probably, but definitely not T.

Even captainchick agrees.

[Thursday]

Not serious.

I am serious when I say that I don't think even for one second that Magic is a T.

Intuitive probably, but definitely not T.

Even captainchick agrees.

k
i was an INTJ for a long while, ya know

[Haphazard]

Jesus Christ, BlueWing, will you just admit you're an INTJ already?

I don't know if INTJs would go through such overkill in trying to get across their point...:shock:

[Thursday]

I don't know if INTJs would go through such overkill in trying to get across their point...:shock:

then who would ?

[Haphazard]

then who would ?

ESFJ?

[MacGuffin]

You are absolutely right that mature thinkers have more control over their emotions than immature thinkers.

However, we should ask, what happens when a Thinker looses control of his emotions?

In our traditional wisdom we hold that it is usually the woman who is the overly emotional and spins out of control when she has a fit. This is a classical immature Feeler act. Going wild with emotions altogether.

How do immature thinkers behave in relationships with such women? They often are verbally and physically abusive, under the delusion they are being calm and deliberate. They dont entirely loose control. They just let their feelings get the best of them. If you were to ask them why they abused their ex, they'd have a rationale of some kind, when its clear their passions got the best of them.

Yet, if you ask a Feeler or the aforementioned woman, she probably would say she only felt this way.

It is indeed that the case that both the former and the latter loose control over their emotions. The difference between the two is that the former is implicit about this, whilst the latter explicit.

Magic, as a Feeler states, 'I am disgusted'. When I'd feel disgusted or any profoundly negative passion, my reaction could often be depicted as 'temper tantrums encased in intellectual language' as one of my ENFP acquaintances depicted this. The more immature I used to be, the more loss of control I've epxerienced that you described. Yet, make no mistake about it. This is different from the Feeler's loss of control in the regard that it is subtle with pretentions to be purely intellectual, in the case of the latter it is explicit.

I've made this point in my first post.
Except you misread Magic. He wasn't actually disgusted, he was frustrated. He wasn't making a concise statement of his emotional state, he was just lashing out.

[SolitaryWalker]

Except you misread Magic. He wasn't actually disgusted, he was frustrated. He wasn't making a concise statement of his emotional state, he was just lashing out.

Yes, he was acting like a Feeler.

It should be noted further in response to your claim, that a mature Thinker is in control of his emotions better because he has more direct access to his Feelings. He supresses them less because he knows better how to deal with them.

A mature Thinker may choose to react like a Feeler for some strange reason since he has a capability of using this function fluently. Hence, if Magic was a 19 year old Thinker, he would not have been 'just lashing out', as you describe. His emotional reaction would of been subtle. Not explicit.

I have misread magic and he was not actually disgusted? He directly states, 'I am disgusted', how could there have been a more explicit of a value judgment than this?

[Giggly]

So Bluewing thinks Magic is an INFJ or INFP?

[pure_mercury]

ESFJ?

We usually have a million things to do. Like criticize people IRL. ;)

[nottaprettygal]

I'd be amazed if you are ISTJ. It's not for any great "intuitive" reason (either by me, or visible in you) but simply because you are nothing like the confirmed three ISTJs I know IRL. It just feels... alien.

Thanks Geoff. . . although I suspect that whole post was actually a veiled insult. :dry:

[Ivy]

Thanks Geoff. . . although I suspect that whole post was actually a veiled insult. :dry:

Seems to be pretty common around these parts to type people we don't like as SJ.

[Mondo]

ESFJ?

Interesting..
INTP under stress will often act ESFJ-ish, I think..

[spirilis]

Captain obvious here, stating that BlueWing is fucking hardcore.

Thank goodness his posts aren't part of a structured class, 'cause there's no way in hell I'd pass the quiz...

On that note, BW- Can you make use of the QUOTE tags in your posts when quoting others? (e.g. not only when you're replying to an actual post, but when you're composing one which references text from another person) It makes things a bit more readable.

[nottaprettygal]

Seems to be pretty common around these parts to type people we don't like as SJ.

Agreed. Although I like learning more about myself, so if there is an honest outside perspective, I'm willing to ponder it.

[Haight]

Seems to be pretty common around these parts to type people we don't like as SJ.Maybe. But when I do it, I'm serious. Plus, there's no one on the sites that I don't "like." They're mostly just internet persona's, and I won't profess to like or dislike someone unless I actually know them or come to the realization that the persona IS the person.

I don't purposely mistype people. I do, however, phrase things as a tease when I know someone is one type while they want/think they are another.

I mean, this IS an MBTI site and I don't want people to live a lie.

MBTI. . . Serious business!

[Magic Poriferan]

Okay, I'm back.

And having actually looked at the whole posts, I'm not enthused. Correcting all of this is going to be like untangling a slinky.

[Magic Poriferan]

Okay... I've decided that the best approach will be for me to respond in a general way, rather than attempting to reply point by point to BlueWing's... shall we call it, thesis. I imagine that anyone that's interested my opinion on this will appreciate the comparative clearness, simplicity, and brevity.

I'd also like to note that I'm doing this in multitple posts.

First post:

I can clean out a large part of BlueWing's argument rather quickly. Every point based on my vocabulary is irrelavent.

That I happened to say "right" instead of "true", or you use a would like "disgusted" is very little to do with my point, or my rationale, in any given situation. So do most of his comments about my form. Plain and simply, vocabulary and style don't have anything to do with type. If they did, it sure would be easier to figure out what type authors, huh? Unfortunately, we can't just open book, read few pages, and figure out if the author is ISTP or ENTJ, because, these things have nothing to do with type.

I have here, an entry from a Thesaurus.

Main Entry: right
Part of Speech: adjective
Synonyms: accurate, advantageous, appropriate, auspicious, condign, consistent, correct, deontic, dexter, dextral, dextrorse, equitable, ethical, favorable, fortunate, honest, inalienable, just, kosher, lawful, legitimate, opportune, orthodox, proper, reasonable, relevant, rightful, seemly, suitable, timely, true

Would you look at that? Right and True are synonyms. That's just one example, but I think I need to show more. You get the picture. If BlueWing continues to make a point of this wording, then he will be guilty of the fallacy of equivocation, as he would be deceptive about the intended meaning of words that have multiple denoted meanings.

I'm just getting started. There will be more.

[Magic Poriferan]

Here's another one.

Emotional expression does not make someone a Feeler. For the a millionth time on this forum, F and T don't have much to do with superificial emotions. F and T regard the kind of rationale we use for making value judgement.

Someone could, in fact, make a Thinking style value judgement while expressing a great deal of emotion, and someone can just as well make a Feeling style value judgement while expressing no emotion.

Now, to address those situations where I dealt with Captain Chick's argument with BlueWing, Digestthesickness and discussing psychology, and Kiddo's farewell respectively.

My expression of feeling type values to reason with others is not necessarily indicative of the notion that I believe those values are the strongest reasons. Surely, BlueWing, you have heard of the appeal to Pathos. This habit of mine is indeed a LEARNED habit. I was just explaining earlier today that years ago I was substantially less in touch with feelings, my own and others. I opened up to them more because I found that being disconnected from Feelings is extremely problematic. You have experienced first hand what happens when you try to persuade people, especially Feelers, without actually appealing to feelings yourself. It goes horribly, almost every time. I'm a utilitarian, I like getting results, so I look for ways to get them. So, on that note, I'd say it was actually rather logical for me to start understanding and utilizing Feelings.

In the case of my discussion with digestthesickness, your misenterpretation was very simple. You made it sound like I was expressing my epistemological opinion on what the truth was, but I was not. I was explaining a common psychological tendency for human beings attempting to handle inconvenient truths. I didn't believe that it was an accurate description of what the truth actually is. Quite the contrary, I was describing what I considered a minor and common form of psychosis. I concede, I may have been unclear by simply saying "people" when I should have more frequently specified that I only meant "most people".

As for Kiddo's farewell, I was in fact using feeling based persuasion to achieve mostly feeling driven ends. Oh the humanity.

I hardly think, such a regularly human level of feeling based concern, gaurantees that I'm over the border and officially a "Feeler". What would you have me do? Act like Dr. Spock? The whole topic was an entirely personal one. There was very little logical debate to be had. It wouldn't have made practical sense for me to enter the topic babbling like a computer.

Never the less, there are even practical, I say logical reasons for that. It's problematic to have people heavily disrespecting and attacking other people, so I try to stop it. It's also rational to secure ones own standings in a community by making feeling based contributions.

Here's another one.

Emotional expression does not make someone a Feeler. For the a millionth time on this forum, F and T don't have much to do with superificial emotions. F and T regard the kind of rationale we use for making value judgement.

Someone could, in fact, make a Thinking style value judgement while expressing a great deal of emotion, and someone can just as well make a Feeling style value judgement while expressing no emotion.

Now, to address those situations where I dealt with Captain Chick's argument with BlueWing, Digestthesickness and discussing psychology, and Kiddo's farewell respectively.

My expression of feeling type values to reason with others is not necessarily indicative of the notion that I believe those values are the strongest reasons. Surely, BlueWing, you have heard of the appeal to Pathos. This habit of mine is indeed a LEARNED habit. I was just explaining earlier today that years ago I was substantially less in touch with feelings, my own and others. I opened up to them more because I found that being disconnected from Feelings is extremely problematic. You have experienced first hand what happens when you try to persuade people, especially Feelers, without actually appealing to feelings yourself. It goes horribly, almost every time. I'm a utilitarian, I like getting results, so I look for ways to get them. So, on that note, I'd say it was actually rather logical for me to start understanding and utilizing Feelings.

In most of the instances you point out, it was logical to understand and utilize feelings. Yes... it was logical to understand and utilize feelings. This bares its repeating. Think about that very carefully, because you need to.

A big problem for you, BlueWing, is that you don't understand two valuable facts about Feeling. 1: the point I already made about it not having to do with superficial emotional expression. And 2: That its presence does not compromise Thinking in any way. Feeling based judgment, and Thinking based Judgment, can be used in a perfectly compatible, non-dichotomous way. I would have thougth someone that stud the cognitive processes so much would know these things.

[Jen]

I'm content with you being a pleasant, nice INTP.

[Nocap]

Here's another one.

Emotional expression does not make someone a Feeler.

Remember when you said it's harder to convince someone their conclusions are incorrect than that their perceptions that those conclusions are based on are?

This is one of those times. You're going to continue to be wrong about this until you change your perceptions.

Emotional expression, unless invoked by some other function, does make it a Feeling function. When your personal psychology prefers these functions over others, you're a Feeler.

[Magic Poriferan]

About my supposed inconsistency regarding the voice of majority:

Regardless of BlueWing's interpretation, all that really matters was my reason and my intent, because I'm the only one that can be certain knowing what they were. They were my own thoughts. If I phrased it in a confusing way, point taking, sorry about that. But in the end, for the purpose of understand the cognitive process that goes in my head, all that matters is understanding what was going on in my head at the time I wrote those things.

My emphasis on the plural opinion had nothing to do giving into feelings.
It was indeed based on the notion, that if there are fifteen people, one of them supports one idea, and the other fourteen support the opposite idea, then supposing they are all equal educated on the subject, the one dissenter is more likely to be wrong than the fourteen others who are in agreement with eachother.

I am well aware that this notion alone is no where near good enough to hold a whole argument, or to completely disassemble another argument. That was my point about how it's "not much", but is one of many valid points in the bigger picture, and was on my side in that particular argument, which is why I brought it up.

As for BlueWing's comment about proving whether or not people are experts... That's just not a very good point. I know of no way to prove that any of the were experts on the subject. BlueWing didn't suggest any way. If I prove that all the others are experts, then should we have to prove BlueWing is an expert as well, to get this even? I can't seem to prove that he is, either. In the end, I assumed all parties equal because I don't think any of you are qualified experts. Not BlueWing, and not any of BlueWing's opponents. It's just a bunch of people that dabbled in Jungian theory and came to this forum.

[Magic Poriferan]

Emotional expression, unless invoked by some other function, does make it a Feeling function. When your personal psychology prefers these functions over others, you're a Feeler.

I think I was making a point about the bold part actually. If I understand waht you meant.

But yes, I know that in a very vague sense, what you said is true. However, when I say anything using the words "should", or "want", even then I'm technically using Feeling... I think, at least I hope, we are all recognizing the fact here that human beings would not function at all if literally devoid of any of the functions.

However, if I'm expressing emotion, but using T type rationale, I think the rationale is the more important aspect here.

[Magic Poriferan]

Later in that discussion, when digesthisickness displays a negative reaction to Magic's proposition. He states ' it is only an assumption!'. What fervent love of truth!



This is just dishonest, and a sarcastic insult, too. There's nothing wrong with a little educated conjecture, especially if someone publicly notes to all that it is just conjecture. It's also something BlueWing has done a fair deal, so if this makes me an F, then it make him an F, too. But he wouldn't agree to that.

[Nocap]

I think I was making a point about the bold part actually. If I understand waht you meant.

But yes, I know that in a very vague sense, what you said is true. Vague nothing. I'm precisely correct.

However, when I say anything using the words "should", or "want", even then I'm technically using Feeling... I think, at least I hope, we are all recognizing the fact here that human beings would not function at all if literally devoid of any of the functions. No one is entirely devoid of any functions.

It's POSSIBLE to be, but no one is. It's hard to go... however many years without at least using each one once. They switch off sometimes between seconds... there are only 8 of them. People live for years. I bet most people don't even go a DAY without using all 8 at least for a second.

That's not really what I'm saying. I'm saying, you're an F because you use F functions more than T functions.


However, if I'm expressing emotion, but using T type rationale, I think the rationale is the more important aspect here. Then it would be invoked by T. Still T.

If it's in the plan...

[CzeCze]

I'm sooooooooo not following this debate. I wish I could, but alas, I'm not 'T' nor 'J' and I don't have legal training. :dry: Oh wait, I gotta be more NF about it --> :D

;)

I can accept that Magic is an NT if that's what he says he is. I think he is humble, sensitive, and has a very well developed "F". Or rather, he focuses a lot of his Ti on "being [morally/ethically] correct/living the right way" -- similarly to Edahn who I also believe is an NT (okay, fine, let's not open that up again).

I can nod with Xander's statement that 'losing a few flaws suddenly makes you 'P' and 'F'" and I reiterate that how you 'are' in yourself (your type) stays the same regardless of how you develop, adapt, mimic, or mask other qualities.

Can we bring up Enneagrams?

I think Magic mentioned he is a One sexual variant (right?) so that should flesh out his 'type' more and why he expresses differently than some other INTPs on the site.

There's lots of variety within type.

I'm going to fall asleep now. I can't wait to see what people have typed in the morning!

:holy:

And BlueWing, don't take this the wrong way, but I totally want to buy you a drink (several in fact, very stiff ones) if we ever meet IRL. :D

[Magic Poriferan]

That's not really what I'm saying. I'm saying, you're an F because you use F functions more than T functions.



And I have to disagree. I tend to believe the results I keep getting from the raw function tests. If there's any concession to be made, it's that my Ti and Fi are tied, so maybe I should be called an INXP, but there's no reason to call me an INFP. I'll note that my Te always comes out higher than my Fe, so, averigin all of it, I still have higher scores on T than on F.

Another point worth mentioning is that different people respond differently depending on the environment. I can safely say that I come across as more Feeling here than I do in personal life. There is unfortunately no way to prove this to anyone here.

[Gabe]

Great... ENFP here we come... :dont:

Well I'm not too sure about ENFJ. You've yet to get really feisty from what I've seen and that's something I look for in ENFJs. I'm also not familiar with you crusading for anything in particular.... There again I'd rule out ENFP (I don't get the feeling that I've been hit by a buick with shag-pile carpet on the outside...usually). INFP is another I'd be tempted to rule out, I've not seen any sergeant type attitude and you seem to open (Mr Carebear stuffs that one up but I find INFPs are usually guarded). ESFJ would be interesting if it were true... but I'd imagine you'd give Limey a headache. My only other recourse is ENTJ and I don't get the whole 'world is layed out' vibe from you.

Nah I'll stick with ENFJ. I'll know more once I see the dynamic you.


:thelook:


:doh:


A rotten truth to be sure but yes. That'd be Mr Lydon.

I guess I'm not as "with it" as we ENFPs supposedly are. :tongue10:

[Magic Poriferan]

In the very end, he states the following in red font.
"*I suppose, at this point, it's amazingly obvious that intimacy is my primary instinct*
__________________"

And I think this is just a simple misunderstanding. I was specifically referring to another personality type system known as the Instinctual Variants. Perhaps BlueWing is not familar with it. If he is not, then it's likely that he interpreted my statement incorrectly, as jargon from a subject you are not familiar with is very easy to misunderstand.

I have looked into the subject, and so far found no correlation between the Instincts and T/F preferences. I believe this is because the definitions have no overlap. Jung's T and F functions refer to means we use to pass judgement on subjects. The Instincts refer to what subjects are of importance to us. So, a person could have Intimacy be his/her top Instinct, and still subject it to completely T based judgment.

[entropie]

I dont know what is going on but I want to say:

Put the wishes in one hand and the shit in the other. See what will be full first xD

Yeah that was unqualified. By the way did someone tell you that you talk way too much ? xD

I go with iNFj for BW

[Magic Poriferan]

I dont know what is going on but I want to say:

Put the wishes in one hand and the shit in the other. See what will be full first xD

Yeah that was unqualified. By the way did someone tell you that you talk way too much ? xD

I go with iNFj for BW

You use this thing :xD: like a punctuation mark.
Also, don't fuel unecessary fires by calling BlueWing an INFJ.

[entropie]

gosh, I wish my english was better. Than I would completly understand this slang re-posts xD

[heart]

You use this thing :xD: like a punctuation mark.
Also, don't fuel unecessary fires by calling BlueWing an INFJ.

What makes it your place to call Entrop. on either his posting style or how he interacts with BW? Why do you care how many fires he starts? He was just giving his opinion and you got all dictatorial towards him personally.

[Gabe]

Remember when you said it's harder to convince someone their conclusions are incorrect than that their perceptions that those conclusions are based on are?

This is one of those times. You're going to continue to be wrong about this until you change your perceptions.

Emotional expression, unless invoked by some other function, does make it a Feeling function. When your personal psychology prefers these functions over others, you're a Feeler.

yeah, well just as much of the time emotion IS evoked by *another function*.

[entropie]

Hey, it is my birthday today, so I have a wish !

Why dont you MBTI mistype me, I am up for a challenge xD

[Magic Poriferan]

What makes it your place to call Entrop. on either his posting style or how he interacts with BW? Why do you care how many fires he starts? He was just giving his opinion and you got all dictatorial towards him personally.

Errr.. sorry, I guess. It's just... he really does use that little face all the time. It actually boggles my mind a bit. I'm serious.

As for the INFJ comment. It seems kind of like trolling to me. In general I got that impression that this was instigation in an already messy thread. Let's ask entropie:

Entropie. did you sincerely mean that you think BlueWing is an INFJ?

[entropie]

would you like another face ? I do it, give me 5 mins

[entropie]

With every breath I take I think of how I want to take one less. More the clouds become dim and they're yelling up a storm, I just can't take it anymore. Mommy gone daddy drunk, not knowing where I belong. Just please tell me when death will be rolling along. Do I have a permanent home, no I have no place to go. Family is crack whores and god my wrists are mighty sore. I feel like all of my life has been a waste. How can anyone love me, I am such a disgrace. For what am I living for when I can't even walk through a permanent front door. I wish that I could die but where would my spirit go singing my own death tone. 11 siblings, what to do when you can't even see them when you really want to. Suicide notes and scars on my wrists only remind me of what I might miss. I wish I could die but want to stay alive for one day. I might just want you to commit my suicide…

[entropie]

what ya think bout the face xD ?