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ThatsWhatHeSaid
11-04-2013, 09:56 PM
Bear with me. (rawr)

I'm not sure if if the depression causes and intuition, or the other way around, but I'm going to posit that depression can, and perhaps often does, develop the intuitive function. The mechanism would be something like this:

Depression takes over
The depression increases a person's tendency to ruminate, but also reflect on things
Reflection is an intrinsically intuitive exercise, where normal labels and definitions of things are dissolved
Depression urges people to dig deeper into people's motivations and pain
Exploration like that is often an intuitive exercise
Intuition is developed in conjunction with depression

Marmotini
11-04-2013, 10:04 PM
You must be a fan of Keirsey if you falsely believe ruminations are an intuitive thing. Jung was pretty clear about it being an introverted function thing.

The Ü™
11-04-2013, 10:14 PM
I suppose being unhappy with how things currently are and being stuck without a way to change them could be iNtuition without judgment to balance it...but I don't know if that alone is caused by depression, especially since depression is caused by the exact opposite situation, as well.

And if anyone read Keirsey, they'll find that the SJs are matched up with the depressive (melancholic) temperament.

msg_v2
11-04-2013, 10:19 PM
No. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is an correlation with being intuitive (or introverted) and having experienced depression, but I would say that it's more likely that being an intuitive (or introverted) would make one more likely to be depressed. I'll stop before I get too much into special snowflake territory.

ThatsWhatHeSaid
11-04-2013, 10:44 PM
You must be a fan of Keirsey if you falsely believe ruminations are an intuitive thing. Jung was pretty clear about it being an introverted function thing.

I think Keirsey's interesting. I think MBTI is a little stupid in general, but it has its value. I don't know what Keirsey or Jung said about ruminations, but the fact that he said it doesn't interest me. Why did he say it? Did he have a good reason?

Ginkgo
11-04-2013, 11:31 PM
Yeah I was about to say that Kiersey would give you a pat on the back.

I think depression could lead to intuitive activity, but not always. A bout of intuition caused by depression would lead to an epiphany about how to solve the problem that is causing depression. Jung would agree here. Ideally, the ego would take control of the process behind the scenes. If not, the intuition may lead to psychosis and a myriad of problems more damaging than depression.

The former process is probably extremely common. The latter, not so much.

EDIT: I should clarify that I'm not talking about long-term preferences. Just instances of cognitive activity.

If long-term depression is changing your cognitive preferences, frankly, it sounds kinda crappy.

Showbread
11-04-2013, 11:41 PM
I am neither an I or an N and I have gone through periods of pretty severe depression and over rumination.

Salomé
11-05-2013, 12:04 AM
I think intuitives are more likely to get depressed (isn't intuition correlated with neuroticism?) but I think that's probably because we tend to be more isolated and less understood, because less common in the population. Also, because we analyse the fuck out of shit, which doesn't always help.

I don't think depression causes or develops intuition, no, though it does develop character.

Stansmith
11-05-2013, 12:29 AM
I've had something akin to Disthymia persistently since I was 12. No sensor-privilege here.

DisneyGeek
11-05-2013, 01:17 AM
No. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is an correlation with being intuitive (or introverted) and having experienced depression, but I would say that it's more likely that being an intuitive (or introverted) would make one more likely to be depressed. I'll stop before I get too much into special snowflake territory.
I think depression has a much higher correlation with introversion than intuitiveness.

Also, there is always the possibility of this "Si-Fi loop" that you guys talk about with depression.

msg_v2
11-05-2013, 01:18 AM
I think depression has a much higher correlation with introversion than intuitiveness.

Also, there is always the possibility of this "Si-Fi loop" that you guys talk about with depression.

"Si-Ti" loops also seem like part of it.

WALMART
11-05-2013, 01:27 AM
Far closer to introverted rationalism than intuitiveness (which is what the OP is writing about, introverted rationalism).

Frankly, I'd say your handle on the theory is pretty hollow. In fact, I might posit a close opposite of your premise.

LittleV
11-05-2013, 01:37 AM
Yeah I was about to say that Kiersey would give you a pat on the back.

I think depression could lead to intuitive activity, but not always. A bout of intuition caused by depression would lead to an epiphany about how to solve the problem that is causing depression. Jung would agree here. Ideally, the ego would take control of the process behind the scenes. If not, the intuition may lead to psychosis and a myriad of problems more damaging than depression.

The former process is probably extremely common. The latter, not so much.

EDIT: I should clarify that I'm not talking about long-term preferences. Just instances of cognitive activity.

If long-term depression is changing your cognitive preferences, frankly, it sounds kinda crappy.

I like this response as much as the avatar associated with it.

Nonetheless, rumination is a trait in itself... as well as a state that can be triggered by or trigger depression. There is the brooding type of rumination where you'd passively focus attention toward negative feelings and the potential difficulties of overcoming them, in which could lead to depression. Then there is the reflective type of rumination in which you'd actively focus on solving the issues and relieving your negative feelings--possibly preventing the onset of depression. Could a sensor believe s/he's intuitive due to depression? Sure, as well as other possibilities: that's why you should type yourself when you're not depressed.

To look at the statistics: MBTI extraverts indicated higher psychological well-being, life satisfaction... lower self-consciousness. Intuitives showed higher psychological well-being and lower self-consciousness. Judgers demonstrated higher psychological well-being (Harrington & Loffredo, 2001). These three types also exhibited better dietary habits during college (Horacek & Betts, 1998).

Salomé
11-05-2013, 01:51 AM
isn't intuition correlated with neuroticism?
Meh, what do I know?

Evidence suggests that neuroticism, the propensity to display negative emotions, anxiety, depression, and anger, is either uncorrelated or negatively correlated to all types of intuition (Fumham et al., 2(03). Whereas McCrae and Costa (1989) found no significant correlation between neuroticism and MBTI intuition, Fumham and colleagues found a significant but small, negative correlation. Likewise, whereas Pacini and Epstein (1999) found no significant correlation between neuroticism and the REI experiential subscale, Epstein et al. (1996) found a significant but small negative correlation between the REI experiential subscale to depression, anxiety, and stress in college life.

http://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1117&context=psych_honproj

DisneyGeek
11-05-2013, 02:17 AM
Meh, what do I know?


http://digitalcommons.iwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1117&context=psych_honproj

This chart is pretty handy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Big_Five

IMO it's also weird that there isn't even a correlation between neuroticism and T/F. It seems to be basically unrelated to everything (well, E/I and J/P are of slight interest).

INTP
11-05-2013, 05:01 AM
Intuition is perception of unconscious contents and their associations. Depression is when enough tension gets locked up into the unconscious, and its function is to guide you to sort that shit out. So yeah, those complexes and what ever that is causing the depression is at least partly coming through intuition(tho they can sometimes be triggered by inferior or tert function, but even then its mostly the perception of those more unconscious functions that come through intuition and mixed with other stuff in the unconscious that gets mixed up with all the other contents).

skylights
11-05-2013, 05:51 AM
I'm echoing what others have said about it probably being more correlated with introversion than intuition.

ThatsWhatHeSaid
11-05-2013, 05:59 AM
Far closer to introverted rationalism than intuitiveness (which is what the OP is writing about, introverted rationalism).

Frankly, I'd say your handle on the theory is pretty hollow. In fact, I might posit a close opposite of your premise.

No, I'm not writing about introverted rationalism, whatever the fuck that is. I'm writing about intuition, and I offered some mechanism whereby depression can increase intuitive thinking. All you've offered is a few obscure terms topped with a shitty ad hom. Frankly, I'd say you're a pretentious dick.

WALMART
11-05-2013, 06:43 AM
No, I'm not writing about introverted rationalism, whatever the fuck that is. I'm writing about intuition, and I offered some mechanism whereby depression can increase intuitive thinking. All you've offered is a few obscure terms topped with a shitty ad hom. Frankly, I'd say you're a pretentious dick.

My apologies for presenting myself so bluntly.

The term is far from obscure. A simple search query could educate you on its existence, after which you could rationally reframe your perception in the context of my opinion. It's absurd to think the proper alternative is for me to do this work for you when you've been empowered thusly.

chubber
11-05-2013, 09:48 AM
I like this response as much as the avatar associated with it.

Nonetheless, rumination is a trait in itself... as well as a state that can be triggered by or trigger depression. There is the brooding type of rumination where you'd passively focus attention toward negative feelings and the potential difficulties of overcoming them, in which could lead to depression. Then there is the reflective type of rumination in which you'd actively focus on solving the issues and relieving your negative feelings--possibly preventing the onset of depression. Could a sensor believe s/he's intuitive due to depression? Sure, as well as other possibilities: that's why you should type yourself when you're not depressed.

To look at the statistics: MBTI extraverts indicated higher psychological well-being, life satisfaction... lower self-consciousness. Intuitives showed higher psychological well-being and lower self-consciousness. Judgers demonstrated higher psychological well-being (Harrington & Loffredo, 2001). These three types also exhibited better dietary habits during college (Horacek & Betts, 1998).
On some MBTI tests I get INTP, but I know I am INTJ. At those times I think I am more depressed, at least that is what I speculated until now. I wonder if it is really related.

Ene
11-05-2013, 12:34 PM
No, I know many S types who have gone through, some who are still going through, depression and it doesn't make them more intuitive. It does, however, seem to heightened certain aspects of their already existing personality. For example, my xSFP sister in law, the more depressed she becomes, the more "impulsive" things she does.

IndyAnnaJoan
11-06-2013, 12:14 AM
I'd agree that I experienced more of my tertiary Ni during my depressive state. But I also think it was a lot of Fi+Ni looping action.

IndyAnnaJoan
11-06-2013, 12:22 AM
No, I know many S types who have gone through, some who are still going through, depression and it doesn't make them more intuitive. It does, however, seem to heightened certain aspects of their already existing personality. For example, my xSFP sister in law, the more depressed she becomes, the more "impulsive" things she does.

Hmm... I'm guilty of this, too.

I suppose it depends on the depressive episode.

For me, it's like this:

Negative external source out of my control-->stupid, impulsive behavior/reaction (Se in combination with distraught Fi) -->examination of both negative source and stupid impulsive behavior (Fi in combination with Ni)

But intuition is pulled out by depression alone.

LittleV
11-06-2013, 01:55 AM
On some MBTI tests I get INTP, but I know I am INTJ. At those times I think I am more depressed, at least that is what I speculated until now. I wonder if it is really related.

You might be compromised in ways that others wouldn’t be in those instances, and vice versa. Regardless of what played the major role, it didn't seem to affect the end result for you. :)

LunaLuminosity
11-11-2013, 09:20 PM
Reflection is an intrinsically intuitive exercise, where normal labels and definitions of things are dissolved


?

I'm not seeing the connection here.

ThatsWhatHeSaid
11-16-2013, 09:15 AM
?

I'm not seeing the connection here.

You're looking beyond concrete form, for something deeper.

Infinite Bubble
11-16-2013, 12:37 PM
The depression increases a person's tendency to ruminate, but also reflect on things
Reflection is an intrinsically intuitive exercise, where normal labels and definitions of things are dissolved

That sounds more akin to introversion really, I'm not sure if depression would make someone perceive connections between things more than usual. Maybe because many people stop being active and perhaps that leads to sensory information given less weight. But at the same time I can imagine tert/inferior sensors engaging in a lot of unhealthy sensory activities such as overeating or self-harm.