ATTN: NTs

[Ezra]

In socionics, if you've studied it, how many of you are Beta STs; that is, LSI and SLE?

Please note: to those of you that haven't studied it, LSI does not equal ISTJ, and SLE does not equal ESTP (otherwise I wouldn't be asking you, would I?).

[Electric]

In socionics, if you've studied it, how many of you are Beta STs; that is, LSI and SLE?

Please note: to those of you that haven't studied it, LSI does not equal ISTJ, and SLE does not equal ESTP (otherwise I wouldn't be asking you, would I?).

So does this mean you still think you're SLE? Why do you need to emphasize type equality so much. Sure socionics is composed of different theories but the basis still correlates(this doesn't mean equate) with jungian theory. Do you believe that an ISFJ could be an ILE? I hope you explain. I don't want to jump into a flame war. The 16types may like that kind of stuff, but I prefer a well reasoned discussion over it.

[Ezra]

Then we share something in common. I too dislike uncivilised argument.

The reason I'm concerned is purely through curiosity. There are a few individuals there who are obsessive about strict matches and correlations, so that if you are ENTJ then you must be LIE; if you are ISTP you must be SLI.

As you said, I doubt I'd ever be able to explain the phenomenon that an ISFJ identified with ILE. But my point is that I don't think certain types fit in with their respective socionics type. I think elements of the ENTJ, not the ESTP, are to be found in the SLE, and there are quite a few discrepancies between ENTJ and LIE. Not too long ago I made a comparison - I analysed - each function in MBTT and socionics. I made some pretty interesting finds. It seemed that Aushra had significantly diverged from Jung's original Se description, and that she'd attributed much of what Myers and Briggs attributed to Te, to Se. At the same time, the description on bestfittype of the ENTJ and the ESTP being conflated in many different ways you can't always change "ENTJ" for "LIE" and "ESTP for "SLE"; the last paragraph actually swaps them round, so that it makes more sense if you swap "ESTP" for "LIE". In essence, ENTJ and LIE are not the same type even if it looks like they are.

[Electric]

thank you for your enlightening post :)
I do have a question over socionics's Se.

From a description of the funtion gathered from here.
SOCIONICS: Functions, Types, Tests (http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.1.types/index.html)

Se - Perceiving Function
Contents: Shape of objects, their location in space, territory.
Manifestation: evaluation of space resources, taking control over space, understanding influence of other people (how much space and resources they control). Accumulation of resources. Prestige. Influence.

It seems to me that Se is about spatial awareness and about control. How can this be for a perceiving function? Ti or Fi is usually used in conjuction with Se for that. Any thoughts?