Stuck in IxTP Limbo

[sassafrassquatch]

I know I have I, T and P but I’m doubting my S/N again.

I started off with MBTI thinking I was INTP, I read the profile (http://www.intpcentral.com/?mode=content&action=profile) which was eerily accurate and took several online tests which all came up INTP. I think those original tests should carry a lot of weight since I didn't know anything about MBTI. Once I found INTPc and #intp on IRC and spent some time there but I didn’t feel like I was among kindred spirits. So I read about Se and Ne in detail and thought maybe I’m ISTP instead.

I think the main problem is that I don’t do the things that either type likes to do. Most of the INTPs on the board seem to like higher math, programming, they’re in college, they’re way brainier than me though I am brainier than average. My brain gags on math higher than the basic four function calculator type, programming sounds like dull drudgery and I *hate* school. INTPs appear to enjoy beer bonging knowledge, I’d rather sponge up interesting facts here and there. They’re also overwhelmingly (http://forums.intpcentral.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1631) Enneagram type 5w4 and some 5w6. I’m 6w5, that’s three notches difference which seems fairly significant.

For ISTPs I hate getting my hands dirty, I’d rather avoid physical activity, I can take something apart and put it back together and have it work but meh. I’m not really into *doing* anything. No, I’m not depressed, I feel perfectly fine. Dicking around on the computer and playing games has pretty much been my sole interest for the past 9 years since I’ve had a PC.

So if the INTPs on the boards are the average and if I am an INTP then I’m a distant outlier. I’m not sure what other ISTPs are like since from what I can tell the other ISTPs on the board are kind of iffy about their types as well. But I’m defiantly not the stereotypical ISTP.

I think I read that S/N is the last function thing to establish itself and I’m almost 22 so that could be part of it. I was home schooled until I was 13 ½, completely alone, no friends. Just me, my library card and a pile of legos. Having to live more in my head may have contributed to a balanced S/N if that is the case.

I'm thoroughly confused so lets all vote on it instead. :D

[Athenian200]

I think you're an ISTP... you're don't have that "civilized yet wacky" air of most INTP's.

You're probably just a more Ti-Ni focused ISTP. There are examples of every Introverted type that don't really like to do things... even SP's. And from what I can tell, an ES_P can even become depressed enough to not want to go anywhere/do anything. So an "I" might not want to do things in the first place.

[heart]

Sass, you sound a lot like my ISTP nephew. He is often in his head as well and playing computer games. He likes Civilization. His topics of conversation seem more earthy than abstract. When he's in his head, he is not poundering philosophy and abstract stuff. His dreams touch the earth more often. He is intelligent but he had a very hard time with school type work.

I think you are onto something that you've developed more N because of imposed inactivity in childhood.

[Randomnity]

You sound like me when I don't have enough to do and I get bored and apathetic :laugh:

I don't really know if I'm ISTP or INTJ or something else though, so I'm pretty useless :D (at least INTP is mostly ruled out)

You don't say enough to tell between intp or istp though. I can't really say.

[sassafrassquatch]

That’s the thing, I don’t really have the telltale interest of either type that would nail it. I'm probably ISTP but it's the ambiguity that bothers me.

[PinkPiranha]

IMO, Sass, you're ISTP with an assertive N. But I also want to point out that STPs (particularly ISTPs) have their own spooky stand-alone brand of "intuition", even when they aren't primary (or dominant) Ns.

I have a friend who's an ENTJ, but she frequently comes off as an ESTJ to those who don't know her well - her S is very active, but not her dominant function.

And you don't have to like to get your hands dirty to fit the bill. I've known other ISTPs who were cat-like in their fastidiousness and not evenly remotely N. Flipside: I've known INTPs who really enjoyed getting dirty and working with their hands, and none of them (that I knew personally) had an S worth spit. So. Anomalies that aren't so anomalous in places? Perhaps.

EDIT: I want to add that a great many ISTPs of my acquaintance have felt the same "iffy" feeling about their type. I think that's the ISTP phantom Intuition asserting itself coupled with the Perceiving which wants to leave the doors open.

[alcea rosea]

I know I have I, T and P but I’m doubting my S/N again.

I started off with MBTI thinking I was INTP, I read the profile (http://www.intpcentral.com/?mode=content&action=profile) which was eerily accurate and took several online tests which all came up INTP. I think those original tests should carry a lot of weight since I didn't know anything about MBTI. Once I found INTPc and #intp on IRC and spent some time there but I didn’t feel like I was among kindred spirits. So I read about Se and Ne in detail and thought maybe I’m ISTP instead.

I think the main problem is that I don’t do the things that either type likes to do. Most of the INTPs on the board seem to like higher math, programming, they’re in college, they’re way brainier than me though I am brainier than average. My brain gags on math higher than the basic four function calculator type, programming sounds like dull drudgery and I *hate* school. INTPs appear to enjoy beer bonging knowledge, I’d rather sponge up interesting facts here and there. They’re also overwhelmingly (http://forums.intpcentral.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=1631) Enneagram type 5w4 and some 5w6. I’m 6w5, that’s three notches difference which seems fairly significant.

For ISTPs I hate getting my hands dirty, I’d rather avoid physical activity, I can take something apart and put it back together and have it work but meh. I’m not really into *doing* anything. No, I’m not depressed, I feel perfectly fine. Dicking around on the computer and playing games has pretty much been my sole interest for the past 9 years since I’ve had a PC.

So if the INTPs on the boards are the average and if I am an INTP then I’m a distant outlier. I’m not sure what other ISTPs are like since from what I can tell the other ISTPs on the board are kind of iffy about their types as well. But I’m defiantly not the stereotypical ISTP.

I think I read that S/N is the last function thing to establish itself and I’m almost 22 so that could be part of it. I was home schooled until I was 13 ½, completely alone, no friends. Just me, my library card and a pile of legos. Having to live more in my head may have contributed to a balanced S/N if that is the case.

I'm thoroughly confused so lets all vote on it instead. :D

My husband is quite similar "case" as you. ;) He is probably ISTP but could be INTP/J too. His strongest funtion is absolutely Ti but that's something in common with ISTP and INTP. He has really the big picture thinking but then he has also strong Se. Based on the descriptions he is more ISTP.

Try to decide if Se or Ne would seem more familiar to you as your auxiliar funtion. It's something people can see about you maybe better than Ti.

I really can't say if you are ISTP or INTP because I haven't met you in the real life. ;)

[Evan]

compare Se/Ni to Ne/Si. they're quite different.

[Uberfuhrer]

For ISTPs I hate getting my hands dirty, I’d rather avoid physical activity, I can take something apart and put it back together and have it work but meh. I’m not really into *doing* anything. No, I’m not depressed, I feel perfectly fine. Dicking around on the computer and playing games has pretty much been my sole interest for the past 9 years since I’ve had a PC.

I would say that playing computer games constitutes as "doing" and physical activity, technically, but in a more controlled environment so that's very much in ISTP domain. But I think the reasons are different. Ti is a strategic way of thinking, so that's very much in line with video games, but an Se type is more interested in acquiring the skill, while the Ne is more interested in being creatively inspired.

As for Enneagram, Enneagram 6 seems to be pretty much open doors for all MBTI types more than any other. (Although Jung correlated it with introverted feeling.)

[alicia91]

I'm certainly no expert, but in the short time I've been here I've read a lot of your posts and you seem VERY down-to-earth, no-bs, and the ISTP makes sense to me. I'm not getting much N from the posts I've read. But as someone else said, you probably have strong N or perhaps you are balanced and IXTP is your type? (I'm a bit of a fence sitter myself between F and T).

[Jennifer]

Sass, when I've read your posts, you seem more into the practical than the esoteric/whimsical, and you also have that hard tertiary Ni coming out a lot.

So you do seem to have more in common in how you process things and present yourself with ISTP, than with INTP.

[sassafrassquatch]

Yeah, I guess that all makes sense.

:nice:
Muchos Gracias!

[ygolo]

IMO, Sass, you're ISTP with an assertive N. But I also want to point out that STPs (particularly ISTPs) have their own spooky stand-alone brand of "intuition", even when they aren't primary (or dominant) Ns.


Yeah. I think it's the tertiary at work. Their Ni servers the role of "relief" in the positive aspect. The role of being "unsettling" in the negative aspect. At least according to Linda Berens.

Maybe that's another reason (beyond both being Chart-the-Course types) that INTJs and ISTPs are similar.

Many of my ISTP schoolmates, I had guessed as INTJs initially. "?" has posted some things on how to differentiate between them. I believe this is the link (http://www.bestfittype.com/istp_intpintj.html).

The same info can be found in the Understanding Yourself and Others® (http://www.16types.com/Request.jsp?rView=ProductDetail&ProductCode=208) series of books.

[INTJMom]

I know I have I, T and P but I’m doubting my S/N again.

I started off with MBTI thinking I was INTP, I read the profile which was eerily accurate and took several online tests which all came up INTP. I think those original tests should carry a lot of weight since I didn't know anything about MBTI. Once I found INTPc and #intp on IRC and spent some time there but I didn’t feel like I was among kindred spirits. So I read about Se and Ne in detail and thought maybe I’m ISTP instead.

I think the main problem is that I don’t do the things that either type likes to do. Most of the INTPs on the board seem to like higher math, programming, they’re in college, they’re way brainier than me though I am brainier than average. My brain gags on math higher than the basic four function calculator type, programming sounds like dull drudgery and I *hate* school. INTPs appear to enjoy beer bonging knowledge, I’d rather sponge up interesting facts here and there. They’re also overwhelmingly Enneagram type 5w4 and some 5w6. I’m 6w5, that’s three notches difference which seems fairly significant.

For ISTPs I hate getting my hands dirty, I’d rather avoid physical activity, I can take something apart and put it back together and have it work but meh. I’m not really into *doing* anything. No, I’m not depressed, I feel perfectly fine. Dicking around on the computer and playing games has pretty much been my sole interest for the past 9 years since I’ve had a PC.

So if the INTPs on the boards are the average and if I am an INTP then I’m a distant outlier. I’m not sure what other ISTPs are like since from what I can tell the other ISTPs on the board are kind of iffy about their types as well. But I’m defiantly not the stereotypical ISTP.

I think I read that S/N is the last function thing to establish itself and I’m almost 22 so that could be part of it. I was home schooled until I was 13 ½, completely alone, no friends. Just me, my library card and a pile of legos. Having to live more in my head may have contributed to a balanced S/N if that is the case.

I'm thoroughly confused so lets all vote on it instead. For the reasons that I put in bold, I think you're ISTP.
Not all ISTPs are athletic, some are more nerdy - and I mean that in the nicest way possible. :wink:


OH DARN, I ACCIDENTALLY HIT INTP ON THE POLL!

[Ezra]

I would've thought these types were relatively easy to decide between. Especially if you take Keirsey's interpretation of them into account. The ISTP is the 'operator'. The gunslingers of the old west and the hitmen and assassins of today. Give them a tool; they will operate it. And they do it with such finesse that they look good in the process. Perfect for handiwork; from mechanics and builders to snipers. From birth, these guys are fiddling with some kind of machinery or tool, and if not, they're in the process of making it. ISTPs can be very adventurous and fun-loving; their the most common type of introverted Seven (in the Enneagram), but Fives, Sixes and many Nines can quite easily be ISTPs IMO.

The INTP is a much more in-their-head type. They're complex characters who build systems (along with the ENTP, while the xNTJs implement them) with their ideas. Much more than that, I couldn't say. You'd have to find someone with a better understanding of an INTP than me (e.g. an INTP).

[developer]

I will make fool out of myself, but I would like to suggest another option. Have you ever thought of INTJ ? The reason I am asking is this:if not knowing whether you are S or N really bothers you, if you feel that you MUST settle this, it might be very well that you are J. I personally know a professional MBTI practitioner, who says she cannot figure out whether she is INFP or ISFP, and it does not seem to bother her the slightest. She even has INFP/ISFP on her email signature and her business card. Ps can deal with this kind of ambivalence much easier thant Js.

Also, I have noticed that your posts are usually very short and to the point, while Ps tend to write longer and more complex posts (need to bring in a few more perspectives....).

As for S vs. N: if you hang out in this kind of forum, and if you are not definitely sure about your type, the most likely answer is IN.

["?"]

For ISTPs I hate getting my hands dirty, I’d rather avoid physical activity, I can take something apart and put it back together and have it work but meh. I’m not really into *doing* anything. No, I’m not depressed, I feel perfectly fine. Dicking around on the computer and playing games has pretty much been my sole interest for the past 9 years since I’ve had a PC.This sounds a great deal like me when I was younger, and somewhat today. However, I have come to realize how much the physical activity and things takes some getting dirty, is quite healthy for me. I too thought that I was 6w5 for quite some time, however am sure that I have 6w5, 9w8 and 3w4 in my triad. I have posted the ISTP confusion all over the forum, but just click on my signature (ISTP) for a more expedient access. I have also posted the temperament test on various sites. Attempt to determine that if you have it narrowed to these two types. Like you I immediately had the Step II administered which resulted in a light "N" over "S". It had taken me about five years to discover my best-fit type. If you are truly 6w5 then that in it self may not satisfy you since that type looks for 100% guarantee in most things. I am curious to how you determined your enneagram type. Does this sound like you:Sixes with a 5 wing are generally introverted and somewhat intellectual. When healthy, they often have many realms of interest as well as surprising competencies and skills. May have an original and idiosyncratic point of view. Can be bookish; some are interested in history or feel rooted in the past or related to a long tradition. Also good at predicting the future. May test potential friends for a long time but once you're in, you're in - a friend for life.

When more entranced, they may project a willed remoteness. Have a "tip of the iceberg" quality - they show little but you sense hidden dimensions, intensity and activity. Tension between needing to be seen and withdrawing for protection. Might act arrogant or cryptic or cynical when afraid.

When phobic, can be diplomatic and say things without saying them. Entranced counterphobics are either cool and loners or argumentative, tending towards violence. Can brood over injustices to them, entertain conspiracy theories, spend time alone building cases. Paranoia in private. May like secretive behind-the-scenes group activity. Sneaky vengeance, passive/aggressive toward others, self-attacking and self-destructive at home.

["?"]

I will make fool out of myself, but I would like to suggest another option. Have you ever thought of INTJ ?Good points, in particularly with the 6w5. Ti-Ni and Se-Te can be look-a-likes. Also ISTP and INTJ share the same interaction style. Most likely Sass is Theorist (NT)-Improviser (SP) or Traditionalist (SJ). Yet again as I posted earlier, I hated getting my hands dirty as a child. I was not that in to school, however I did hang in there to get my Bachelors many moons ago.

[whatever]

I clicked INTP, not because I think that you ARE an INTP- I simply don't think that you are an ISTP! :laugh:

When I think ISTP I think Grayscale- someone who's active but still introverted! You're also much more stubborn about arguing things like your atheism argument that went on for PAGES that one time and I quit reading since I got bored with all of the arguing and such! :laugh:

I agree with Developer actually- you've always seemed more INTJ to me somehow than ISTP :thelook:- well, lets just say that you seemed introverted and thinking, but the S and the P just didn't hit me as quite right.

From what I've read you're really quite different than me! You're cautious about things, you worry about bad things happening to you if you take risks (even driving!!!) and you prefer not to move! :shock: That's TOTALLY un-me! As your extroverted counterpart I'd think that you'd be more like me than that! :)

["?"]

From what I've read you're really quite different than me! You're cautious about things, you worry about bad things happening to you if you take risks (even driving!!!) and you prefer not to move! :shock: That's TOTALLY un-me! As your extroverted counterpart I'd think that you'd be more like me than that! :)That is why I honed in on the 6w5. MBTI has a couple of problems in application, in my opinion. There is very little information that shows how types interact with their environment. This is where the enneagram can be useful. The descriptions of MBTI deal with healthy types in general. The enneagram takes into account average to unhealthy personalities.
I still prescribe to Linda V. Berens and Dario Nardi’s descriptions of type, because they are quite functional. First the names have meanings. The first name is how we see ourselves and the latter, is how others see us. Since we are highly subjective in nature, we can most likely see the first name, however totally disagree with the other because it takes some objectivity. Thus, the Designer-Theorizer (http://bestfittype.com/intp.html) will see themselves as such, whereas the Conceptualizer-Director ( http://bestfittype.com/intj.html) will see that they are highly conceptual and the Analyzer-Operator (http://bestfittype.com/istp.html) will first notice that they analyze. Interestingly, I could not see Operator at all in me, because of my limited view of the word. Per the thesaurus, one who operates does not necessarily pertain to mechanics. The word is synonymous with
Synonyms: abettor, actor, advocate, ambassador, assignee, assistant, attorney, broker, commissioner, delegate, deputy, doer, emissary, envoy, executor, factor, factotum, functionary, go-between, handler, intermediary, lawyer, mediary, middleman, minister, mover, negotiator, officer, operative, operator, proctor, promoter, proxy, representative, salesman, servant, steward, substitute, surrogate, worker

[alcea rosea]

From what I've read you're really quite different than me! You're cautious about things, you worry about bad things happening to you if you take risks (even driving!!!) and you prefer not to move! :shock: That's TOTALLY un-me! As your extroverted counterpart I'd think that you'd be more like me than that! :)

Remeber - Whatever - that Se is ISTP's auxiliary function. So, they think first before moving. ;) At least one ISTP that I know does it.

["?"]

Remeber - Whatever - that Se is ISTP's auxiliary function. So, they think first before moving. ;) At least one ISTP that I know does it.I'm in love:heart:

[INTJMom]

I would've thought these types were relatively easy to decide between. Especially if you take Keirsey's interpretation of them into account. The ISTP is the 'operator'. The gunslingers of the old west and the hitmen and assassins of today. Give them a tool; they will operate it. And they do it with such finesse that they look good in the process. Perfect for handiwork; from mechanics and builders to snipers. From birth, these guys are fiddling with some kind of machinery or tool, and if not, they're in the process of making it. ISTPs can be very adventurous and fun-loving; their the most common type of introverted Seven (in the Enneagram), but Fives, Sixes and many Nines can quite easily be ISTPs IMO.

The INTP is a much more in-their-head type. They're complex characters who build systems (along with the ENTP, while the xNTJs implement them) with their ideas. Much more than that, I couldn't say. You'd have to find someone with a better understanding of an INTP than me (e.g. an INTP).I remember a post from when I first got here. I went to find the one I was thinking of. I remembered PT having a similar trial of trying to discern which type he was. Maybe there's a certain breed of ISTP that has a little more trouble figuring it out, if they don't fit the description well enough.

...
In short, I grew up believing I was an INTP and pursued those directions very much. It's kind of sad because I was a huge sports guy (although not the way people think of sports - solo sports like skiing, swimming... and limited sports like tennis) and chose computers as my escape. Although I love technology, I hit a brick wall with technology... I then tried philosophy and psychology with similar brick walls. Eventually I went into finance, although I needed a job in the meantime... and that job led into this one. I'm only now accepting my nature better and starting to adjust the way I do things. Least work is paying for my courses this time.

But honestly, looking back, there are just too many factors with ISTPs to nail it down. Look into finance if there is a math inclination... I was failing math in elementary school, but my parents put me into Kumon - math tutoring thing and now... well, I'm decidedly not bad at it, so don't judge it by school measurements alone. They bought me a computer and I loved that. They put me into chess club, skiing, tennis... just about everything. It was the best thing possible for me. It seems like we come into our own at a later age if we are able to try enough things. The emphasis on past experiences is very important. Most of the stories here are dramatic versions of "wow, I found what I wanted!"... but really, we want to do everything. At some point something from our past or present opens up some kind of door and the rest is history.

Course, this refers to the period between one and two decades ago so things have changed. But I know more recent STPs that loved building models... everything from just models to racing cars to planes/helis. The same SPs show remarkable talent with strange things, like 3d modeling and such.

And not to be unPC yet again today, intelligence plays a large part in this as well. In general, significantly above average SPs seem to have a knack for doing just about everything, but in particular, they tend to be information processors (ie: analysts and such). I thought of that as an INTP trait for a long time until I came across some research on how higher corporate SPs act - seems that's the trend.

So, IMO, it's hard to give any direct advice. Pushing them to do things is probably the single most important thing. Instead of a summer job as McDonalds, a job packing computers (me!) is better... so is volunteer work, so are camps... anything, really. It doesn't even have to depend on means, really, since a lot of the things can be cheap or free.

But motivation might be tough - the sensitive parts for ISTPs is being able to do something. Always emphasise what they'd be able to do (ie: work for a mechanic? Fix a girl's car! Dance? Think Bond!) with their experience.

[sassafrassquatch]

This INTJ thing has totally blown my mind. I’m going to look into it.

Also, I think I was wrong when I said I prefer sponges to beer bongs, I actually do beer bong information when I find something interesting.

I don't know why I can't keep my shit straight. :doh:

[whatever]

Also, I think I was wrong when I said I prefer sponges to beer bongs

Sass and Magic Sponge sitting in a tree.....



:devil:

["?"]

This INTJ thing has totally blown my mind. I’m going to look into it.Again referring back to interaction styles, when communicating with others, do you (Direct or Inform) - All communications that involve getting someone else to do something can be classified along a continuum from very directive to very informing. This dynamic involves the style of the communication as well as the words.

Do you focus your attention and interest on (Controling or Movement) - In any given interaction, we attend to different aspects. Some people are more focused on controlling some aspect of the interaction. Others are more focused on moving things along.

Also Improvisers (SP) and Catalyst (NF) consider motives of others Motives are the reasons people do things. They must be paid attention to in order to get the desired results. Knowing a person’s motives provides [people expressing Improviser] cues to freely respond as the other person pursues his or her wants or needs. [Berens]

People expressing Improviser can be cynical about human motives… they harbour no illusions about people being noble or saintly – “come off it”, says the [archetypal Improviser], no matter how virtuous we think ourselves, we all have feet of clay, we are all ultimately corruptible and self-serving. [Keirsey]

(When the Improviser and Theorist patterns are expressed together, the result can be especially sardonic, as the cynicism associated with the Improviser pattern and the scepticism associated with the Theorist pattern can feed upon one another).

Although this focus on Motives is shared with the Catalyst pattern, the interpretation of motivations by someone expressing Improviser is more down-to-earth than by someone expressing Catalyst. Viewed through the Improviser pattern, people’s motives might be a source of suspicion, but viewed through the Catalyst pattern, motives express the unique identities of individuals.

Theorists (NT) and Traditionalists (SJ) focus on structureIn the Theorist pattern, the structural attention goes to the abstract and multidimensional, as in logic and matrices, coordinates, and organizing principles. Theorist structures provide implementation strategies, and at the same time they provide ways to catalogue and master the principles of how the world operates. The goal is for all to learn to be more competent and efficient within the system. [Berens]

Once again, we can see how this description fits well with the nature of the scientific endeavour, which is also focussed on uncovering the underlying structure of the universe. However, not everyone who expresses the Theorist temperament strongly will necessarily lean towards the scientific – any situation involving the organisation of complex systems (such as the internal operations of a corporation) will also suit this general focus on how things are structured.

The focus on Structure is shared with the Traditionalist pattern, but the focus of those expressing Traditionalist is generally rules and responsibilities – about defining what is appropriate or what can be expected – whereas the Theorist pattern is more associated with systemic structures. Indeed, systems are at the very heart of the Theorist temperament, as we shall see from examining the type of intelligence associated with this pattern.

[htb]

Highly intelligent ISTPs intersect with INTPs. Why, I don't know; but they do. Hence Sassafrassquatch.

[sassafrassquatch]

Again referring back to interaction styles, when communicating with others, do you (Direct or Inform) - All communications that involve getting someone else to do something can be classified along a continuum from very directive to very informing. This dynamic involves the style of the communication as well as the words.

Do you focus your attention and interest on (Controling or Movement) - In any given interaction, we attend to different aspects. Some people are more focused on controlling some aspect of the interaction. Others are more focused on moving things along.

Also Improvisers (SP) and Catalyst (NF) consider motives of others

Theorists (NT) and Traditionalists (SJ) focus on structure

:confused:


So right now I'm thinking like this:

I – :rock: 100% balls to the wall

S/N – :BangHead:

T – Cognitive Processes (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/introvertedthinking.html)

Te - Extraverted Thinking

Contingency planning, scheduling, and quantifying utilize the process of extraverted Thinking. Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively. Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone’s ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else’s thought process. In written or verbal communication, extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else’s logic, sequence, or organization. It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three. In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives.

That sounds pretty good.

J/P – Since most of my activity is on the computer I see that my file system is immaculate, a folder for everything and everything in its folder. My MP3s are tagged and organized perfectly, clutter and stray files are kept to a minimum and everything is very tidy. My room, well, it’s not tidy but it’s not a mess either. I know where everything is and my bed is rarely made. I know J isn’t all about being organized and scheduled but, blah. I don’t really feel as open and unfettered as a P would. I want things to be reasonably certain, stable, nailed down. I don’t like surprises, last minute decisions or loose ends.


Out of the four IxTx types ISTJ and INTP are right out, ISTP is close but INTJ is also interesting.

[alcea rosea]

:confused:

So right now I'm thinking like this:

I – :rock: 100% balls to the wall

S/N – :BangHead:

T –

That sounds pretty good.


Good description!
:rofl1:

["?"]

T –

That sounds pretty good.

J/P – Since most of my activity is on the computer I see that my file system is immaculate, a folder for everything and everything in its folder. My MP3s are tagged and organized perfectly, clutter and stray files are kept to a minimum and everything is very tidy. My room, well, it’s not tidy but it’s not a mess either. I know where everything is and my bed is rarely made. I know J isn’t all about being organized and scheduled but, blah. I don’t really feel as open and unfettered as a P would. I want things to be reasonably certain, stable, nailed down. I don’t like surprises, last minute decisions or loose ends.Uhhh, since you prefer Te to Ti, you have made your decision. Te preference is down the line for ITPs. You are claiming ITJ. Again INFJ, INTJ, ISTJ and ISTP use Chart the Course in interaction style. It at least rules out INTP. You could be ISTJ (http://bestfittype.com/istj.html).

[ygolo]

I wouldn't be too hasty to rule out ISTP.

I've known several very organized ISTPs (and ESTPs) who drive for closure. Organization is often as much an aesthetic thing as it is a functional thing. Sometimes SPs just like the look and feel of an organized something (others like the look-and-feel of clutter). The T would then keep the organization utilitarian.

Even INTPs want closure for their Ti's. How does you use something without really have things pinned down? In my designs (software or hardware), I keep things very structured. I also know where most of things I care about are, though my room is, objectively a mess.

Life themes (http://books.google.com/books?id=pogCbETmLBAC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=spheres+of+life+temperament&source=web&ots=5yIR0_QtX7&sig=2tNYtl9o73vYeVvg00iyjGSwis0) and flavors (http://books.google.com/books?id=pogCbETmLBAC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=flavors+personality+type&source=web&ots=5yIR0_QvZ7&sig=_3yGKRuYGDAwSSnDOVBApI3QO5U#PPA54,M1) of type will modify descriptions slightly.

For instance being involved in the "physical" life theme will make you seem more SP. This goes for all types and temperaments. Being more involved in the "entrepreneurial" life-theme will make you seem more NT, no matter what your actual temperament.

Lack of development of your auxiliary, can lead to relying on other extraverted functions too much(like Te), instead of channeling the needs exposed by those functions through the auxiliary. When I was younger, I believe I relied on a weak Fe too much (resulting in my current oversensitive neurosis).

But adding to a former thought of "?". Are you more of a planner, a conceptualizer or an analyzer?

I suppose the simplest most revealing question is: "What makes you unique?"

[sassafrassquatch]

:thumbdown: Fuck it. This is a waste of time. Every description is written so ambiguously I can’t make sense of anything.

[alicia91]

I can certainly understand why you feel that way! I think that they are ambiguously written also. I've been studying the functions and in any single day can say that I've pretty much used every single one. Makes me wonder if people can't just convince themselves that they are whatever they want to be. It might help if the creators of these systems used more examples of behaviors rather than just descriptors.

That said, I found the book Do What You Are to be the single most helpful thing in determining my type (not that I'm a super-close fit). What really helped me was reading about the everyday people who are the examples of each type.

["?"]

:thumbdown: Fuck it. This is a waste of time. Every description is written so ambiguously I can’t make sense of anything.Sas you are confirming my thoughts for starting this thread (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/online-personality-tests/3526-can-assessments-hinder-extraverts-introverts.html). Introverts cannot determine their true type from assessments and surely not from reading descriptions. You come from a very subjective perception as an introvert and if you do use Ti you are compartmentalizing. Stop kidding yourself and assess your true self with tests and things that are outside of your control and comfort zone. Your frustration is noted, which makes me believe that you want to see movement and closure, thus you could be one of the Chart the Course types, assuming you have totallydiscounted being extraverted.

[INTJMom]

...
That said, I found the book Do What You Are to be the single most helpful thing in determining my type (not that I'm a super-close fit). What really helped me was reading about the everyday people who are the examples of each type.Me, too.

[Jennifer]

J/P -- Since most of my activity is on the computer I see that my file system is immaculate, a folder for everything and everything in its folder. My MP3s are tagged and organized perfectly, clutter and stray files are kept to a minimum and everything is very tidy. My room, well, it's not tidy but it's not a mess either. I know where everything is and my bed is rarely made. I know J isn't all about being organized and scheduled but, blah. I don’t really feel as open and unfettered as a P would. I want things to be reasonably certain, stable, nailed down. I don't like surprises, last minute decisions or loose ends.

What was your childhood like?

If you were in a LTR with someone who demanded every jot and tittle be in place, who organized more about you, who wanted to keep track of your time spent out and what you were doing and when you would come home, etc.... how would you feel about organization then?

(For example, I'm supposed to be flexible... and in many ways I am... but in other ways, I feel very rigid and inflexible despite being obviously P. I can't really stand when people surprise me by changing my plans for me or adding things to my schedule; wanting to manage risk means I hate being blind-sided; I really do like stability, so that I don't have to focus on maintaining my life. I want it all just to happen on its own, so I can focus elsewhere. I can also sit around and think of great ways to organize my files and books and CDs and other things... but just have trouble sticking with the system. Even though I'd rather have it organized -- as opposed to messy, and the mess bothers me after awhile -- it's too hard for me to tear myself away from my head games to commit energy to it. I think ISTPs are better at physical organization than INTPs.)

["?"]

I found the book Do What You Are to be the single most helpful thing in determining my type (not that I'm a super-close fit). What really helped me was reading about the everyday people who are the examples of each type.I have Paul and Barbara Tieger’s collection and I find their theory oversimplified in attempting to use dichotomies in speedreading or attempting to determine type. Their theory, as does Otto Kroeger’s does not take into consideration the functions and attitudes. How do you know if what you are seeing for example is Ti-Ne being used or Ni-Fe? I posted a thread (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/whats-my-type/3516-easier-type-your-own-2.html) that ask the question.

Again going back to my example, both INTPs and INFJs can have a sense of detachment and disconnection and are comfortable with complexity. They can both focus on people and their interactions. The only way to know that the person is using Ti-Ne, and not Ni-Fe, is to discern if the person is making inferences to people by using the principles or models of something. Otherwise what you may be witnessing is a person attempting to connect or disconnect with impressionistic images.

It gets more confusing because INJs, like ISJs have a “one thing at a time” usage, which can easily be confused with a focus on principles. Something that I have experienced is perceiving types will take in a lot and decipher the material internally, whereas judging types can feel overwhelmed by too much information and immediately ask you to stop in order to uniform the information in order understand what was said. More so, there is Lenore Thomson’s theory that ITPs use Fi as their secondary introverted function and IFJs use Te as their secondary external function. I would think that the functions can easily be developed to confuse an onlooker.

[sassafrassquatch]

What was your childhood like?

If you were in a LTR with someone who demanded every jot and tittle be in place, who organized more about you, who wanted to keep track of your time spent out and what you were doing and when you would come home, etc.... how would you feel about organization then?

(For example, I'm supposed to be flexible... and in many ways I am... but in other ways, I feel very rigid and inflexible despite being obviously P. I can't really stand when people surprise me by changing my plans for me or adding things to my schedule; wanting to manage risk means I hate being blind-sided; I really do like stability, so that I don't have to focus on maintaining my life. I want it all just to happen on its own, so I can focus elsewhere. I can also sit around and think of great ways to organize my files and books and CDs and other things... but just have trouble sticking with the system. Even though I'd rather have it organized -- as opposed to messy, and the mess bothers me after awhile -- it's too hard for me to tear myself away from my head games to commit energy to it. I think ISTPs are better at physical organization than INTPs.)

My parents are fundamentalist christian ISTJs and my dad is very, very J. He’s a persnickety, fastidious, perfectionist bordering on OCD. Growing up was very stable, everything planned in advance, very orderly and I was socially isolated. I was home schooled until I was 13

[sassafrassquatch]

I took this test (http://similarminds.com/embj.html) and got this:

Jung Test Results

Your type is: ISTJ

Introverted (I) 90% Extroverted (E) 10%
Sensing (S) 90% Intuitive (N) 10%
Thinking (T) 72.97% Feeling (F) 27.03%
Judging (J) 65.71% Perceiving (P) 34.29%

ISTJ - "Trustee". Decisiveness in practical affairs. Guardian of time- honored institutions. Dependable. 11.6% of total population.

Enneagram Test Results

Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||||||| 76%
Type 2 Helpfulness || 10%
Type 3 Image Awareness |||||| 23%
Type 4 Sensitivity |||||||||| 36%
Type 5 Detachment |||||||||||||||||||| 90%
Type 6 Anxiety |||||||||||||||||||| 86%
Type 7 Adventurousness || 10%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||| 23%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||| 40%

type score type behavior motivation
5 27 I must be knowledgable and independent to be happy.
6 26 I must be secure and safe to be happy.
1 23 I must be perfect and good to be happy.
9 12 I must be peaceful and easy to get along with to be happy.

[Mycroft]

My parents are fundamentalist christian ISTJs and my dad is very, very J. He’s a persnickety, fastidious, perfectionist bordering on OCD. Growing up was very stable, everything planned in advance, very orderly and I was socially isolated. I was home schooled until I was 13

Ps who grew up in especially J households tend to test a bit more J. Our upbringing has a huge influence on our preferences for cleanliness and orderliness, and the tests do indeed tend to put too much weight on these for determining J or P.

I have a friend who, while undeniably being an ESTP, has the neatest apartment of anyone I know and never called off or came in late once in the nearly two years I worked with him. From the stories I've heard, his mother kept their home looking like a display home for a real estate company.

Just to cite an example.

[Grayscale]

the fact that you care so much about figuring out your type doesn't seem very ISTPish to me :huh:

IxTJ seems more likely

["?"]

the fact that you care so much about figuring out your type doesn't seem very ISTPish to me :huh:

IxTJ seems more likelyTo the contrary,I had considerable anguish in attempting to determine my true type. At some point I became very frustrated with the system in general, seeing the many flaws.

[Jennifer]

Ps who grew up in especially J households tend to test a bit more J. Our upbringing has a huge influence on our preferences for cleanliness and orderliness, and the tests do indeed tend to put too much weight on these for determining J or P....

Plus, a TP who is placed in a situation where they're constantly overridden and pressured by J influences could easily become "more decisive" simply in order to push back and solidify their boundaries.

(FPs could too, but out of the three Horney anxiety-reducing responses, I am betting that TP's are more likely to either withdraw or move against/push back, and FP's are more likely to move towards/accommodate in some way.)

the fact that you care so much about figuring out your type doesn't seem very ISTPish to me :huh: IxTJ seems more likely

I can't tell whether this is a joke or if you are serious.

(Dry senses of humor... yeesh.)

He seems fine to me, that aspect is not a Silver Bullet.

[sassafrassquatch]

I think I make more sense as an ISTJ than a highly abnormal ISTP.

[Jennifer]

I think I make more sense as an ISTJ than a highly abnormal ISTP.

*shrug* You didn't seem that abnormal to me.

But it's your type reading.

(And besides, if you're really an ISTP, you'll just change your mind later.)

[sassafrassquatch]

You also have to take into account that the way I behave on the internet is very different from the way I am in meatspace.

Edit: w00t! 300th post!

[Uberfuhrer]

Edit: w00t! 300th post!

FOR SPARTA!!!

[INTJMom]

Do ISTJs even USE computers when not at work?

[heart]

Do ISTJs even USE computers when not at work?

Yes, I have an ISTJ nephew too and he is totally into computers. He also likes to work on the mechanics of the computer itself.

[sassafrassquatch]

I think computers appeal to all IxTx types to some degree.

[sassafrassquatch]

From similarminds.com's Jung descriptions:

ISTJ

responsible, planner, private, loner tendencies, perfectionist, organized, detail oriented, would rather be friendless than jobless, realistic, observer, clean, focused, does not talk about feelings, finisher, punctual, private, does not appreciate strangeness, not adventurous, not spontaneous, follows the rules, dutiful, avoids mistakes, conventional, likes solitude, insensitive to the hardships of others, prepared, anti-tattoos, thinks rules are important, cautious, security seeking, prepares for worst case scenarios, logical, analytical, does not accept apologies easily, hard working

ISTP

hidden, private, has trouble describing feelings, not very affectionate (to a girlfriend, yes, everyone else, no), loner tendencies, lower energy, can be insensitive to the misfortunes of others, disorganized, messy, fears drawing attention to self, anti-tattoos, anti counter culture, not comfortable in unfamiliar situations, avoidant, rather unemotional, does not like attention, more interested in intellectual pursuits than relationships or family, hermitic, not complimentary, dislikes leadership, more submissive then domineering

Not much difference there.

[JustDave]

I think computers appeal to all IxTx types to some degree.

Was that an IT joke? :devil:

[INTJMom]

Was that an IT joke? :devil:Yeah. I noticed that, too! :smile:

[sassafrassquatch]

An ISTJ's dominant function is Si and this page (http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Introverted_Sensation) is spot on for me.

I'm feeling much more certain about being an ISTJ now.

[INTJMom]

Both of these use Si:

The 16 Type Patterns (http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16types.html)

ISTJ - Planner Inspector
Theme is planning and monitoring, ensuring predictable quality. Thorough, systematic, and careful. See discrepancies, omissions, and pitfalls. Talents lie in administrating and regulating. Dependable, realistic, and sensible. Want to conserve the resources of the organization, group, family, or culture and persevere toward that goal. Thrive on planning ahead and being prepared. Like helping others through their roles as parent, supervisor, teammate, and community volunteer.

ISFJ - Protector Supporter
Theme is protecting and caretaking, making sure their charges are safe from harm. Talents lie in making sure everything is taken care of so others can succeed and accomplish their goals. Desiring to serve individual needs, often work long hours. Quietly friendly, respectful, unassuming. Thrive on serving quietly without fanfare. Devoted to doing whatever is necessary to ensure shelter and safety, warning about pitfalls and dangers and supporting along the way.

[sassafrassquatch]

I rock the Te hard. ISFJ is Behind-The-Scenes and ISTJ is Chart-The-Course.

["?"]

Just reviewing your lingo, the average person would say that you and I do not write like our respective types. I notice that you use a great deal of slang that describes tangibleness. This only indicates that there is a great deal of misperceptions used to describe types. In the end Sass, it still boils down to preferences. If you are comfortable with ISTJ then explore that type to a conclusion and as a 6w5, realize that there is no 100% in dealing with type. I am glad that you're on the right path.

[CaptainChick]

I will make fool out of myself, but I would like to suggest another option. Have you ever thought of INTJ ? The reason I am asking is this:if not knowing whether you are S or N really bothers you, if you feel that you MUST settle this, it might be very well that you are J. I personally know a professional MBTI practitioner, who says she cannot figure out whether she is INFP or ISFP, and it does not seem to bother her the slightest. She even has INFP/ISFP on her email signature and her business card. Ps can deal with this kind of ambivalence much easier thant Js.

Also, I have noticed that your posts are usually very short and to the point, while Ps tend to write longer and more complex posts (need to bring in a few more perspectives....).

As for S vs. N: if you hang out in this kind of forum, and if you are not definitely sure about your type, the most likely answer is IN.
He brings up an interesting point.