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highlander
08-22-2010, 03:52 PM
I've seen different things:

Just under half
About 35%
"a minority in the regular population but a majority in the gifted population."

Any thoughts on what statistics are the most reliable?

FDG
08-22-2010, 03:59 PM
nah, about half

ajblaise
08-22-2010, 04:06 PM
I'm going with 25%. And I'm pretty reliable.

InsatiableCuriosity
08-22-2010, 04:18 PM
50.9% according to the National sample figures in the MBTI Manual

highlander
08-22-2010, 04:24 PM
50.9% according to the National sample figures in the MBTI Manual

That's interesting. The MBTI Manual states the majority of the population are introverts.

How could these things be so far apart?

I've had similar questions over the years on the % of various types - why the ranges or numbers are so different in different places.

Arclight
08-22-2010, 04:30 PM
Please Understand Me Claims it's about 50/50.

ReflecTcelfeR
08-22-2010, 04:32 PM
If anything I'd say they have at least a slight majority over extraverts.

skylights
08-22-2010, 07:27 PM
i'm curious too, but i think it's really hard to know because

1) testing figures may very well be biased (introverts and intuitives generally being slightly more inclined to individually be into something like the MBTI; even any place which randomly tests a larger population may have been self-selected to some degree by what kind of place it is)

2) not everyone even knows their correct orientation. sometimes it's hard to differentiate between the two. not to mention that cultures on a whole demonstrate introversion and extraversion to different degrees. in the states, to all accounts, i'm an introvert, but i'm not, functionally. interestingly i do think that's been more evident in other countries where i've lived.

i guess a decen way to get a somewhat accurate figure would be to take mass amounts of tests across types of workplaces and cultures and run statistical testing on them... but that assumes most cultures even know about the MBTI...

OrangeAppled
08-22-2010, 07:44 PM
Aren't introversion and extroversion often viewed as more of a scale than two distinct categories? In that case, I think most people probably land around the middle somewhere and will seem extroverted to a more extreme introvert.

There are different ways people define E & I though, and based on Jung's definition, it seems to me that true introverts are the minority. I think when people think of an extrovert, they think of the extreme version, and so they cannot see themselves in it. I wonder how many people who test I are highly introverted or actually near the middle mark...

highlander
08-22-2010, 07:47 PM
Aren't introversion and extroversion often viewed as more of a scale than two distinct categories? In that case, I think most people probably land around the middle somewhere and will seem extroverted to a more extreme introvert.

There are different ways people define E & I though, and based on Jung's definition, it seems to me that true introverts are the minority. I think when people think of an extrovert, they think of the extreme version, and so they cannot see themselves in it. I wonder how many people who test I are highly introverted or actually near the middle mark...

Good point. I guess I was just thinking of somebody whose dominant function is introverted or who comes up as an I on an MBTI assessment.

Aleksei
08-22-2010, 07:49 PM
Statistically, supposedly a little under half (45% or so).

Metamorphosis
08-22-2010, 08:20 PM
Is this world population or population in a certain country?

I could see it making a difference.

highlander
08-22-2010, 09:13 PM
Is this world population or population in a certain country?

I could see it making a difference.

Good question. I once read that INTJ is the predominant type among Japanese business leaders. How? Why?

Aleksei
08-22-2010, 09:49 PM
I once read that INTJ is the predominant type among Japanese business leaders. How? Why?
Well, INTJ and ENTJ are extremely common types among business leaders in general, and Japan is a very introverted country. In the US the most common type among business leaders is likely ENTJ.

highlander
08-22-2010, 10:04 PM
Well, INTJ and ENTJ are extremely common types among business leaders in general, and Japan is a very introverted country. In the US the most common type among business leaders is likely ENTJ.

I think your first sentence is right. With regards to the second one though, the percentage of business executives by type in the US is:

ISTJ - 32.1%
ESTJ - 28%
INTJ - 15.8%
ENTJ - 9.4%
ENTP - 5.3%

The rest are other types. It's interesting that ISTJs and INTJs are represented in numbers that far exceed their proportion of the overall population.

Metamorphosis
08-22-2010, 10:10 PM
I recall seeing a study done once (on a documentary) that studied children adopted into different cultures, and they still tended to display personality characteristics more in line with their ethnicity/original culture than their adopted one, even when adopted at birth. There was also a noticeable difference in disposition on average. MBTI type wasn't referenced, though, and it's been awhile since I've seen it.

If you're a believer in the effect of genetics on type than that would make sense. Of course, it could also just be that certain cultures tend to prize certain types more than others (like E's in the US).

Xenon
08-22-2010, 10:21 PM
Good point. I guess I was just thinking of somebody whose dominant function is introverted or who comes up as an I on an MBTI assessment.

By that definition, it might be close to 50/50. Stats like "25% of the general population; 70% of the gifted" (or whatever it is) and discussions of introverts as a misunderstood minority likely use a stricter definition, and refer to a more pronounced introverted preference.

Halla74
08-22-2010, 11:58 PM
50.9% according to the National sample figures in the MBTI Manual

Interesting! :yes:

"National" as in U.S.A., or by nation (Australia, Germany, France, Lichtenstein, Uzbekistan, etc.) I'm only half being a smart ass, because I actually do have a genuine interest in how that statistic might vary across various nations, especially those whose cultural values are significantly different than in Western societies.

For instance, in a fundamentalist Muslim nation, it does not behoove females to be too extroverted. Gaining energy from social interactions could very well get women in such nations a caning, beating or worse at the hands of the Muttawah, or their own husbands for the matter. So, does such fear of punishment predispose women in fundamentalist Musilm societies to "become" more introverted for the sake of self preservation?

On the flip side, are American women more prone to "become" extroverted in order to pursue the many potential gains available to individuals willing to put themselves out in all kinds of situations in order to find opportunities/wealth/a suitable mate?

The answer to these questions seems to hold part of the answer as to how powerful GENOTYPE is Vs. ENVIRONMENT. (That is assuming that one's MBTI type is genetically inherited in some significant capacity. Come to think of it, is it? Has anyone ever prone that?) :shock:

-Halla

Kasper
08-23-2010, 12:37 AM
I believe the '98 figures (http://www.infj.org/archive/typestats.html) which has them at around 50/50.

Such Irony
08-23-2010, 12:37 AM
Please Understand Me Claims it's about 50/50.

I thought they claimed 75% E / 25% I


Aren't introversion and extroversion often viewed as more of a scale than two distinct categories? In that case, I think most people probably land around the middle somewhere and will seem extroverted to a more extreme introvert.

There are different ways people define E & I though, and based on Jung's definition, it seems to me that true introverts are the minority. I think when people think of an extrovert, they think of the extreme version, and so they cannot see themselves in it. I wonder how many people who test I are highly introverted or actually near the middle mark...

MBTI only looks at what side of the dichotomy you fall on. And I do agree that alot of people are near the middle, which means its not uncommon to question the result. Other personality measures like the Big Five do use a continuum.


50.9% according to the National sample figures in the MBTI Manual

That's what I've heard too. Its almost even between E and I.


You might be interested in this link: MBTI Proximity Chart at MROB (http://mrob.com/pub/MBTI-16.html)

Apparently according to the official MBTI form M test, there are more F's than T's at about a 60:40 ratio. Only 1 in 4 females tests as a thinking type. About 1 in 5 females are ISFJ, the most common type overall. Only 1.8% of females are INTP, making me a rare breed indeed.

Also, there is a slight correlation between E/I and gender. For females about 55% are E. Reverse is true for males.

highlander
08-23-2010, 12:43 AM
I believe the '98 figures (http://www.infj.org/archive/typestats.html) which has them at around 50/50.

This is a great link.

It surprises me how rare ENxJs are.

highlander
08-23-2010, 12:55 AM
It just occurred to me. I read it somewhere and always thought there were twice as many Es as there were Is. It didn't align with my experiences though. I thought they must be somewhere else. :laugh:

Kasper
08-23-2010, 01:01 AM
It just occurred to me. I read it somewhere and always thought there were twice as many Es as there were Is. It didn't align with my experiences though. I thought they must be somewhere else. :laugh:

Yeah, same with the personal experience, I've generally been surrounded by a relatively even amount of E/I people, with a slight leaning towards I actually.

The old stats were from a 1964 American study conducted by David Keirsey and Marilyn Bates, they had the percentages as:

Extraversion 75%, Introversion 25%
Sensing 75%, iNtuition 25%
Thinking 50%, Feeling 50%
Judging 50%, Perceiving 50%

As stated before, I don't believe those figures, they don't align with my experience.

highlander
08-23-2010, 01:13 AM
Yeah, same with the personal experience, I've generally been surrounded by a relatively even amount of E/I people, with a slight leaning towards I actually.

The old stats were from a 1964 American study conducted by David Keirsey and Marilyn Bates, they had the percentages as:

Extraversion 75%, Introversion 25%
Sensing 75%, iNtuition 25%
Thinking 50%, Feeling 50%
Judging 50%, Perceiving 50%

As stated before, I don't believe those figures, they don't align with my experience.

Right - those are the ones I saw. Actually learned something today. :)

Llewellyn
08-27-2010, 10:58 AM
Just over 50%, I'd synthesize.

Weber
08-28-2010, 05:25 PM
Most "introverts" are just broken extroverts who have developed coping mechanisms and self-rationalize their behaviour.

Patches
08-28-2010, 05:33 PM
Most "introverts" are just broken extroverts who have developed coping mechanisms and self-rationalize their behaviour.

:rolleyes:

I'd bother with a retort, but you'd just convince yourself I was rationalizing.

Why is it that extroversion is considered the norm? It seems to me that most people are under the impression that there is more value in being with people than being alone.

guesswho
08-28-2010, 05:34 PM
Here's what I think.

There may be a lot of slightly introverted people.
But the number of the very introverted people compared to the number of the very extraverted people is way smaller.

There are way more talkative dramatic agitated very extraverted people..than the talk less think more type.
--

Also extraverted principles are pushed down the introverts throath...so well ... some introverts may act like extraverts, but they the are slightly introverted.

Weber
08-28-2010, 06:20 PM
Why is it that extroversion is considered the norm?

Perhaps it's because most people can't go a day without smalltalking about inane things, and every mainstream show out there tells you to "go out and meet new people" as the quick fix to every problem in the world. The country in which I live might be at the extreme end of things, but I'd say that true introverts make up no more than 10% of the population.

Edgar
08-28-2010, 06:32 PM
Humans are social creatures, so it makes sense for the majority of people to be extraverted.

If I had to guess I'd say its a 2:1 ratio.

Llewellyn
08-28-2010, 07:21 PM
There are way more talkative dramatic agitated very extraverted people..than the talk less think more type.

At least they are more conspicuous.


Humans are social creatures, so it makes sense for the majority of people to be extraverted.
Sounds like some sort of circular (and faulty, excuse me) reasoning...

Zarathustra
08-28-2010, 07:41 PM
Humans are social creatures, so it makes sense for the majority of people to be extraverted.

If I had to guess I'd say its a 2:1 ratio.

The numbers for the "normal" population came from MBTI results for 9,320 11th and 12th graders.

Type Ratio Gifted % Norm %
Ixxx 1.41 49.69 35.14
Exxx 0.77 50.23 64.86

I believe they suspect that extraversion could be overreported, if anything, due to high schoolers wanting to be more extroverted.

I have seen elsewhere that the split is about 40% introverted and 60% extroverted. That is where I'd put my best estimate, if I had to.

Also, this data does exist by country, and the U.S. is over-represented with extroverts. Most Western countries are. The Asian countries tend to have more introverts.

Edgar
08-28-2010, 08:49 PM
Sounds like some sort of circular (and faulty, excuse me) reasoning...

Human natural behavior leans more toward those of pack animals (like dogs). Since ancient history humans would hunt in packs and our most distinguishing characteristic from other animals is the ability of complex communication - which is conducive to group functioning.

Ginkgo
08-31-2010, 10:29 AM
If extraverts are always out and about, absorbing and relaying external information, then it would be easy to see why they would be mistaken for being more enumerated than introverts. It's more likely that they simply have more attention drawn to them, drawing the attention away from the ~50% population of introverts.

Chloe
08-31-2010, 11:02 AM
If its 50:50 why then is Extraversion so much more accepted? Who would make so big pressure on 50% of population?
Despite Es being louder I think what is expected would look a lot different if the ratio is 50:50.
I'd guess 40:60 at best.

My country is more extraverted than US I think, Mediterrenean countries are known to be obnoxiously loud, like Italy, Greece, Lebanon and Croatia... Only Croatia is very very T country, we dont like each other very much but still talk to each other all the time, The Balkans. US seems way more F. Also, we are waaay less N than US, whole Europe is! I think here it's 30:70 I to E.

Kasper
08-31-2010, 11:24 AM
If its 50:50 why then is Extraversion so much more accepted? Who would make so big pressure on 50% of population?

I don't believe Extroversion is "so much more accepted", I think sociability is seen as a positive trait and shyness is seen as something to overcome, those things are not the same thing as Extroversion and Introversion though.

Many of the Introverts I know are quite sociable, more so than me even, they are also Sensors, the only stats I've ever seen on S/N is 70/30 or there about. If people are seeing ISxx's as Extroverts because of behavioural traits then I can understand why they would think there are so many more Extroverts.

Chloe
08-31-2010, 11:33 AM
I don't believe Extroversion is "so much more accepted", I think sociability is seen as a positive trait and shyness is seen as something to overcome, those things are not the same thing as Extroversion and Introversion though.

Many of the Introverts I know are quite sociable, more so than me even, they are also Sensors, the only stats I've ever seen on S/N is 70/30 or there about. If people are seeing ISxx's as Extroverts because of behavioural traits then I can understand why they would think there are so many more Extroverts.

yeah, that's all true. My sister is ISTJ (But I retyped her as ESTJ because she's never alone, but in MBTI terms she's ISTJ i think) and she's more social than I am, but when we were kids I was way more social than she is.

but also % vary a lot depending where you live, I guess Scandinavia is most Introverted place in Europe.

Kasper
08-31-2010, 11:37 AM
but also % vary a lot depending where you live, I guess Scandinavia is most Introverted place in Europe.

I've never been to Scandinavia but I expect you're still talking about behavioural things, just based on culture, like America (I presume) encourages socialisation etc, other cultures may be more encouraging of being more withdrawn or unassuming. I wouldn't expect the average amount of types would differ dramatically. Would be interesting to see some studies though.

Zarathustra
08-31-2010, 03:46 PM
Also, we are waaay less N than US, whole Europe is!

:confused:

Could you please explain your thinking here?

ragashree
08-31-2010, 04:05 PM
Big, big difference between the possession of introversion/extraversion skills, and functional extraversion as conceptualised in Jung-based typology. Most tests (and arguably MBti to a far greater extent than it should) assess Extraversion/Introversion purely as behavioural traits (and therefore skill usage) - which since they are acculturated social norms, are not going to tell you anything beyond the obvious about the prevalence of these traits in any society you look at.

Unless it's absolutely clear which type of introversion/extraversion is being referred to, which type the tests are measuring, and whether they're set up to do so effectively, it's hard to see anything interesting coming out of this...

Aleksei
08-31-2010, 10:59 PM
If its 50:50 why then is Extraversion so much more accepted? Who would make so big pressure on 50% of population?
As mentioned by Edgar, we're fundamentally a social species, and as such social relations and social networking are fundamental to society's well-functioning. However, introverts have many socially useful advantages over extroverts (generally speaking introverts are more efficient workers, can learn more of a given subject in one sitting, etc.), and as such introverts who can learn interpersonal skills (which isn't that difficult) tend to be more useful to society than extroverts. 45% of senior executives in the US, for example, are INTJ or ISTJ (a further 37% are ENTJ or ESTJ), and by necessity all have excellent social networking skills.

wildcat
09-02-2010, 07:27 AM
Aren't introversion and extroversion often viewed as more of a scale than two distinct categories? In that case, I think most people probably land around the middle somewhere and will seem extroverted to a more extreme introvert.

There are different ways people define E & I though, and based on Jung's definition, it seems to me that true introverts are the minority. I think when people think of an extrovert, they think of the extreme version, and so they cannot see themselves in it. I wonder how many people who test I are highly introverted or actually near the middle mark...
The distinct category is the other end of the scale.

DomNi
09-03-2010, 06:19 PM
Big, big difference between the possession of introversion/extraversion skills, and functional extraversion as conceptualised in Jung-based typology. Most tests (and arguably MBti to a far greater extent than it should) assess Extraversion/Introversion purely as behavioural traits (and therefore skill usage) - which since they are acculturated social norms, are not going to tell you anything beyond the obvious about the prevalence of these traits in any society you look at.

Unless it's absolutely clear which type of introversion/extraversion is being referred to, which type the tests are measuring, and whether they're set up to do so effectively, it's hard to see anything interesting coming out of this...

Excellent point, Ragashree. Jung never meant those terms to apply to people. This video explains it better than I can:
YouTube - Introversion-Extraversion Primer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T9f7b7dOzQ)

Queen Kat
09-03-2010, 06:41 PM
According to my study book it's 50/50.

highlander
09-04-2010, 02:47 AM
Excellent point, Ragashree. Jung never meant those terms to apply to people. This video explains it better than I can:
YouTube - Introversion-Extraversion Primer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T9f7b7dOzQ)

Awesome video. Explains it very well.

CrystalViolet
09-04-2010, 03:37 PM
Just reading this, and thinking about my own personal experience. I think people think I'm far more extroverted than I am, and I'm a very confirmed introvert, .
but when I'm out and about and comfortable, I don't shut up. It would be easy to assume I'm extroverted if you didn't know me well enough.

Also I believe people confuse introversion with shyness.

wildcat
09-07-2010, 07:14 AM
I've seen different things:

Just under half
About 35%
"a minority in the regular population but a majority in the gifted population."

Any thoughts on what statistics are the most reliable?
There is no such figure.
The center is not a permanent commodity.

guesswho
09-11-2010, 09:33 AM
My country is more extraverted than US I think, Mediterrenean countries are known to be obnoxiously loud, like Italy, Greece, Lebanon and Croatia... Only Croatia is very very T country, we dont like each other very much but still talk to each other all the time, The Balkans. US seems way more F. Also, we are waaay less N than US, whole Europe is! I think here it's 30:70 I to E.

I have been to Greece and it didn't really seem loud. At least on the seaside.

How do you actually type countries?

Each country has certain values which are promoted, traditions and stuff like that, philosophies.
And some of the values can be typed, but that doesn't mean that the people living there are that way.

In the end we can't really know exact percentages, unless they give an MBTI form when the population is counted to each invididual lol.

HotpinkHeatwave
09-11-2010, 07:09 PM
I think it's pretty even. Maybe a little more extroverts than introverts - in this world, you need to be extroverted.

I know that in the northwest states, the extroversion rate is very high, where as places with little population in the desert/mountains, the introversion rate is very high.

I come from the NW. I definitely can't deny the extroversion here.

Patches
09-11-2010, 07:29 PM
in this world, you need to be extroverted.


....Why?

Especially given the prevalence of computers/internet - you can accomplish almost anything online without ever interacting with people. What about our world make being extroverted a necessity at all?

skylights
09-11-2010, 10:22 PM
....Why?

Especially given the prevalence of computers/internet - you can accomplish almost anything online without ever interacting with people. What about our world make being extroverted a necessity at all?

agreed.

introversion/extraversion doesn't really matter, imo. in fact, its usefulness would simply seem to correlate to whether paying attention to conditions within yourself (Xi) or conditions around you (Xe) is more beneficial at the time.

being social is another matter entirely.

Aleksei
09-13-2010, 12:39 AM
....Why?

Especially given the prevalence of computers/internet - you can accomplish almost anything online without ever interacting with people. What about our world make being extroverted a necessity at all?
The success of skilled and career-based workers and entrepreneurship both require social networking, and are basically the engine of any given economy. Social safety in general greatly benefits from social networking as well. Note that this requires socialization rather than extroversion, but extroversion makes it easier on people (though that may not necessarily be so -- Ne-doms are usually quite picky about whom they socialize with).