INTP or INFP female ?

[INTJMom]

So I brought my son to a public video gaming/computer place yesterday, and I'm sitting at one of the computers minding my own business - getting caught up on MBTIc postings - when this woman comes and introduces herself to me. She is the mother of a boy who my son has been developing a new friendship with at this video place and they get along great together.

"Oh I'm so glad I get to meet you! My son talks about your son all the time!" She proceeds to pull up a chair and have a conversation with me! The more she talked, the more I realized I wasn't getting back to the internet.

In the course of the conversation, I found out that she's familiar enough with MBTI to think she's an INTP. It's just that she was so pleasant, smiling and friendly that she didn't seem very "T" to me- especially INTP since they have a rep for not caring about social niceties. Also, she teased my son a bit, the way my INFP sister teases. She's probably in her late 40's.

One thing different from my INFP sister is that my sister is always "put together"... never goes out without makeup. Her hair is always fixed nice. This lady had no makeup and her hair was long and a little unruly in an artsy sort of way.

Do you think she's really an INTP?

[Jennifer]

In the course of the conversation, I found out that she's familiar enough with MBTI to think she's an INTP. It's just that she was so pleasant, smiling and friendly that she didn't seem very "T" to me- especially INTP since they have a rep for not caring about social niceties. Also, she teased my son a bit, the way my INFP sister teases. She's probably in her late 40's.

Well, we have already seen a lot of evidence of T's who do care about social niceties on this forum, at least. And while male INTPs tend to care less about social niceties, women INTPs still have a "relational bent" that means even the ones who don't much care can still play the game and potentially even enjoy it, depending on their specific personality and life experience.

Yes, INFPs would take to it easier, though.

One thing different from my INFP sister is that my sister is always "put together"... never goes out without makeup. Her hair is always fixed nice. This lady had no makeup and her hair was long and a little unruly in an artsy sort of way.

I have seen both. It really depends on the woman and her internal values. There's more chance for an INTx woman to ignore social mores regarding appearance, but some INFP women would "go natural" if their inner vision of the world demanded it, rather than looking "produced" in some way.

It's hard to tell what she is. She might lean INFP, but that's the most that could be said.

[Jive A Turkey]

"Oh I'm so glad I get to meet you! My son talks about your son all the time!"

The exclamations and the following conversation make her seem pretty outgoing. Is she definitely an I? Sorry, if I'm missing the tone of the whole situation.

[INTJMom]

The exclamations and the following conversation make her seem pretty outgoing. Is she definitely an I? Sorry, if I'm missing the tone of the whole situation.No, I know what you're saying! I even questioned her on it! But she was quite sure she needed to be alone to re-energize.

[Athenian200]

Do you think she's really an INTP?

No, definitely not if that's her normal behavior. She's obviously an ExFx, but I can't say much more than that.

If she is an INTP, then she must have been extremely stressed out about something. They can display enough emotion that I actually feel extremely invaded/nervous if they're under enough stress. I've learned over time that I'm much more afraid of an INTP who acts pleasantly, talks and smiles a lot than I am of one who's jaded and cynical about things. (But if they're silly/weird, that's fine too.)

[Jennifer]

No, definitely not if that's her normal behavior. She's obviously an ExFx, but I can't say much more than that.

Not so obviously.

[INTJMom]

No, definitely not if that's her normal behavior. She's obviously an ExFx, but I can't say much more than that.

If she is an INTP, then she must have been extremely stressed out about something. They can display enough emotion that I actually feel extremely invaded/nervous if they're under enough stress. I've learned over time that I'm much more afraid of an INTP who acts pleasantly, talks and smiles a lot than I am of one who's jaded and cynical about things. (But if they're silly/weird, that's fine too.)Well, she reminded me so much of my INFP sister that really I was just wondering if she was an F instead of a T.

I've only known one other INTP woman and not very well.

I'm pretty sure she was probably right about the INP part. Perhaps I didn't give a good enough description.

What do you think would be the major differences between mature female INFPs and INTPs?

[Jennifer]

What do you think would be the major differences between mature female INFPs and INTPs?

It probably is a matter of the personal versus the impersonal (and then, a matter of degrees).

INFP women exude a bit more warmth. They tend to emote more (still quietly) and they often get a little quirkier or splashier in their clothing. They will focus more on the personal in their conversation and about the specific happenings of individuals in discussion. They can have a sharp wit but are very careful to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Seem to demand more connection in the relationship.

INTP women are a little more sardonic or flat and can keep a little distance (detachment). They tend to be more sedate with their clothing, more pragmatic. They talk less about the specific tangibles of people and focus on broader abstractions. They are less interested in dealing with people with kid gloves on and might say some things that come off as abrupt or that could be taken wrong, except for the fact that you know they don't mean it that way. More detachment/space in the relationship.

[Kiddo]

It is possible for people to develop the weaknesses in their personality type. My INTJ friend loves to dance. Of course, he had to expend a great deal of energy and time getting to the point where he was comfortable doing so, but now he is one of the best dancers I know. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't think many INTJs like to dance.

[INTJMom]

It probably is a matter of the personal versus the impersonal (and then, a matter of degrees).

INFP women exude a bit more warmth. They tend to emote more (still quietly) and they often get a little quirkier or splashier in their clothing. They will focus more on the personal in their conversation and about the specific happenings of individuals in discussion. They can have a sharp wit but are very careful to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Seem to demand more connection in the relationship.

INTP women are a little more sardonic or flat and can keep a little distance (detachment). They tend to be more sedate with their clothing, more pragmatic. They talk less about the specific tangibles of people and focus on broader abstractions. They are less interested in dealing with people with kid gloves on and might say some things that come off as abrupt or that could be taken wrong, except for the fact that you know they don't mean it that way. More detachment/space in the relationship.Thanks, Luv.
I was gonna say that she talked about a couple of horrible experiences her son had with teachers. We talked about our sons mostly, not ourselves.

She seemed intelligent enough and well-informed enough to know her own type. She just seemed awfully friendly and pleasant to be an INTP, but that's only based on the things I've read here about INTPs not caring about manners or polite behavior.

Now that I think about it, she didn't have that "ethereal" quality my sister has - not really in touch with reality kind of thing.

I have a hard time with that "caring about people's feelings" stuff based on what I've learned here about F's when you've hit one of their hot buttons, pet peeves, or the like. Like my sister, I think they can be downright forceful and not really care whose feelings they hurt.

I guess I haven't known enough INTP women to know what they are like in person. She was definitely a positive example of an INTP if that's what she is.

[Athenian200]

Not so obviously.

Then we aren't looking in the same place... sorry?? :huh:

I was gonna say that she talked about a couple of horrible experiences her son had with teachers. We talked about our sons mostly, not ourselves.

That still seems somewhat EF to me, in that she initiated the conversation, and spoke of an experience that conjured emotion.

She seemed intelligent enough and well-informed enough to know her own type. She just seemed awfully friendly and pleasant to be an INTP, but that's only based on the things I've read here about INTPs not caring about manners or polite behavior.


Exactly. That's far too much for an INTP, in my opinion. I mean, I could even believe it if they had initiated the conversation, but spoke of something more neutral, and kept it shorter... but all of that? No, I just can't see that.

Now that I think about it, she didn't have that "ethereal" quality my sister has - not really in touch with reality kind of thing.

Hmm... I suppose they could be a very socialized/artificial T, but there's definitely an E or an F in there somewhere, and I would venture to think both. (Although there seems to be an off-chance they might be an ENTP, but I'd never believe "I.")

I guess I haven't known enough INTP women to know what they are like in person. She was definitely a positive example of an INTP if that's what she is.

I seriously doubt she was, but I would agree that she's a positive example of whatever type she is, from how you describe her. :)

And finally, I'm going to say that the only way this person could be an INTP is if they were very stressed... it doesn't fit with my understanding of INTP behavior in the least.

[INTJMom]

I guess I'll have to get to know her better. If I ever get that chance, I'll keep you guys updated.

I believe I have read on this site that using this foundational concept: that Is recharge by being alone and Es recharge by being with people is not a trustworthy measuring stick to use, but I am unaware of what standard IS universal.

[INTJMom]

...
I'd never believe "I.")...I know how you feel. As I said, I questioned her on that. She was quite aware that I types recharge by being alone and Es recharge by being with people. She was positive she was an I. I think she belongs to the Jung Society? (And she pronounced it in German - Yoo-ng.)

I have no way of knowing how much stress she was enduring.

She was definitely an N because I can't stand what S women talk about.

People are so complex. I'm not really the type to continue arguing with someone or disbelieving someone when they're so sure they're right. I can more easily believe that I don't know enough people and I don't understand the subject well enough to tell her she's wrong.

Are you taking into account the fact that she's nearly 50 years of age?

As I said before, the only reason I had the idea that INTPs are anti-social is because of a couple of outspoken anti-social INTPs I've interacted with on this site. But in all fairness, they were all men, I believe. Xander seems to be one of the few I can get along with. He's quite outgoing, I believe (and he drives a NICE car!) ;)

I don't really know what INTP women are like except for Jennifer and I LOVE her. I agree with practically everything she says as if I had said it myself. It's funny that the females hit me differently than the males, because I really am put off by most INTP males - to the point of becoming furious sometimes. They really irk me.

Anyhow, it's so difficult to "type" someone with a brief online description. As Carl Jung said, "Every individual is an exception to the rule."

Are there any female television characters who are "classic INTPs"?
(past or present)

[Mempy]

That still seems somewhat EF to me, in that she initiated the conversation, and spoke of an experience that conjured emotion.
I think what Jennifer may mean is that you're looking at types much too one-dimensionally. You don't seem to think types can be dynamic. Types have many sides. They are not just one set of behaviors. NTs have an SF side, and vice versa. After all, even an INTP has Si and Fe in their top four functions (ie, an SF side). Similarly, an ESFP has Te and Ni in their top four functions (ie, an NT side). People are colorful, multi-faceted and often times contradictory. Even the nicest, bubbliest person has an iron fist underneath. We all have sometimes very contradictory dimensions to our personality. In other words, what type someone is is not always, or even frequently, obvious. People are so much more dynamic than that, especially as they acquire experience. You're looking at one tree in the forest, boxing people in too narrowly.

I'm an I, but I speak easily with people when I'm not in bad mood. In fact, I can be the life of any party. I joke easily. I'm an F, but I like to think I have a very reasonable and intellectual side, too. I'm an N, but I have a meticulous eye for detail and art. Some people might have difficulty typing me if I were to keep my type from them. People are very multi-faceted and dynamic. To be fair, you're an F, but you have a very strong intellectual and analytical bent, right, Athe?

[JAVO]

The more balanced people are, the more difficult they are to type. As people get older, they presumably become more balanced. I generally find it more difficult to type people in their 40's or above.

I see no reason to doubt that this lady is an INTP. I could see myself doing and saying the same things given a similar situation.

[Athenian200]

I think what Jennifer may mean is that you're looking at types much too one-dimensionally. You don't seem to think types can be dynamic. Types have many sides. They are not just one set of behaviors. NTs have an SF side, and vice versa. After all, even an INTP has Si and Fe in their top four functions (ie, an SF side). Similarly, an ESFP has Te and Ni in their top four functions (ie, an NT side). People are colorful, multi-faceted and often times contradictory. Even the nicest, bubbliest person has an iron fist underneath. We all have sometimes very contradictory dimensions to our personality. In other words, what type someone is is not always, or even frequently, obvious. People are so much more dynamic than that, especially as they acquire experience. You're looking at one tree in the forest, boxing people in too narrowly.

Granted, but that still doesn't address that there was almost nothing about her behavior to suggest that she WAS an INTP. If there had been, I would have been open to the idea, but I saw nothing pointing in that direction. Just because what was seen doesn't make it impossible doesn't mean that it's automatically likely.


I'm an I, but I speak easily with people when I'm not in bad mood. In fact, I can be the life of any party. I joke easily. I'm an F, but I like to think I have a very reasonable and intellectual side, too. I'm an N, but I have a meticulous eye for detail and art. Some people might have difficulty typing me if I were to keep my type from them. People are very multi-faceted and dynamic. To be fair, you're an F, but you have a very strong intellectual and analytical bent, right, Athe?

I know that... but what does T have do with being intellectual/analytical? I assumed T just means that you prefer not to deal with emotion, tend to see most things impersonally, and like to act competitively. I don't do that.

I just assume that their type would still predominate their pattern in spite of specific instances, and it doesn't appear to do so in this case. Am I just supposed to accept that this person is typing themselves accurately, for no apparent reason, regardless of what their behavior suggests? That's what I feel like I'm being asked to do, and I don't even see a good reason for it.

But it's so annoying that no one is willing to give an actual reason for believing this person to be what they say, rather than a justification of why it's not impossible. I guess it's pointless to say anything further, everyone else believes it and can't be swayed.

[Mempy]

Just because what was seen doesn't make it impossible doesn't mean that it's automatically likely.
True, but you seemed so sure.

I know that... but what does T have do with being intellectual/analytical? I assumed T just means that you prefer not to deal with emotion, tend to see most things impersonally, and like to act competitively. I don't do that.
But it takes some distancing from emotions to really analyze things and get to the heart of them. Otherwise, your emotions just get in the way. I'm not sure that T has anything to do with competition, either.

I'm just saying it's really hard to be so dead certain about a person's type, because people are dynamic and not so clear-cut. I don't care that you question her type. I admit, at first glance, she doesn't seem INTP, but I wouldn't rule it out yet. If she CONSTANTLY seemed exuberant, claimed no interest in theory, and gushed and gushed about her emotions all the time, yeah, I'd really question whether she were INTP. But what I AM saying is, INTPs have a squishy and outgoing side too. They CAN, anyway, just like anyone can develop sides that reach beyond their type. The only reason I even bothered to bring it up was because you sounded SO certain, and didn't seem willing to budge on your assessment that she was SF. Your verdict was too sure. That's why I questioned it.

[Athenian200]

The only reason I even bothered to bring it up was because you sounded SO certain, and didn't seem willing to budge on your assessment that she was SF. Your verdict was too sure. That's why I questioned it.

Okay, that makes me feel better now. I understand. But I never said she was SF, I said she definitely seemed to have either an E or an F, possibly both. That meant I was considering anything from ENFJ, ENFP, or even ENTP. I actually doubted she was an S.

But I can see why you still wanted to leave it for consideration as a possibility, even if it didn't seem likely... that makes sense, it just sounded to me like everyone was saying that she was clearly an INTP and I was being ridiculous for doubting it.

[arcticangel02]

Are you taking into account the fact that she's nearly 50 years of age?

Another possibility would be that she's been married to (or has been close to) a strong ExFx for a number of years, and consequently she's absorbed some of their traits? Even being more well-rounded because of her age may be enough to allow her to put on the appearance of being an ExFx when the need arises - this action sounded quite deliberate, to come up and get to know you because your sons got on well.

An INTP is perfectly capable of social niceties, when they need to be. They just normally choose not to exert a great deal of energy in that direction.

I'm sure as you get to know her it'll be clearer - I believe it's nearly impossible to judge type based on one meeting, even if they are very obvious, which she's clearly not! :P

[INTJMom]

The more balanced people are, the more difficult they are to type. As people get older, they presumably become more balanced. I generally find it more difficult to type people in their 40's or above.

I see no reason to doubt that this lady is an INTP. I could see myself doing and saying the same things given a similar situation.Thanks for that valuable perspective.

[INTJMom]

...
what does T have do with being intellectual/analytical? I assumed T just means that you prefer not to deal with emotion, tend to see most things impersonally, and like to act competitively.In the Speedreading People information by Barron and Tieger, they say Ts are usually perceived as logical, analytical, and honest, whereas Fs are usually sensitive, friendly and diplomatic. This is the information I have been working with for 17 years.

However since I have come to this site, I have learned that not all Fs are diplomatic, and some are very analytical, such as yourself.

I am a T but I like to be friendly and helpful especially to someone who seems alone and helpless. I have been this way all my life. But I am still mostly a T because as you say, I don't like dealing with emotion. I can do it, but I find it exhausting.

This lady's son had been telling her about my son for several weeks. She was glad to finally meet us. I just was surprised she was so warm. I didn't think INTPs could be warm. I was asking if anyone here knew if INTP women could be warm. I only gave the information that would address that question. So as I said, I admit it's my fault for not giving you enough information.

...
But it's so annoying that no one is willing to give an actual reason for believing this person to be what they say, rather than a justification of why it's not impossible. I guess it's pointless to say anything further, everyone else believes it and can't be swayed.I understand your frustration. This wasn't a 17 year old girl who "took the test" once online! LOL! This woman was well-versed in the MBTI concepts. She was mature and level-headed. She was highly intelligent. She talked about the Jung Society and she remembered all the different E/I S/N/ T/F J/P dichotomies. She seemed to know what she was talking about.

I only type 20 wpm and I'm not good at describing things, so there's no way I could give you enough information for you to fully judge her type. My question was not what type is she. My question was could she really be an INTP because as I said, she was somewhat warm and pleasant.

As long as there is one INTP female here who says she could behave in such a warm manner, then I am satisfied this lady is probably an INTP like she says.

I think I'd like to get to know her better. INxx women are so hard to find in real life. And she knows about MBTI! :D

[Economica]

Are there any female television characters who are "classic INTPs"?
(past or present)


Daria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daria), I believe. This YouTube user (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=icadagoon) has clips.

[INTJMom]

Daria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daria), I believe. This YouTube user (http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=icadagoon) has clips.Disappointingly, I don't know her.

I should hunt around for a list.

[Economica]

Disappointingly, I don't know her.

Which is why I included the link to clips. :D

[INTJMom]

Which is why I included the link to clips. :DThank you, Sweetie. I clicked on the link to the wiki. I guess I was hoping to compare her to someone I already "know". I didn't see a link to clips. I will check those out.

[Economica]

Thank you, Sweetie. I clicked on the link to the wiki. I guess I was hoping to compare her to someone I already "know". I didn't see a link to clips. I will check those out.

Apparently I added that part after you read it but before you replied.

If you watch an episode or two through the clips (burdensome, I know) I think you'll get a pretty good idea of what Daria is like. Of course, she's a teenager, so it might not help you out much with the typing at hand, but personally I thought the show provided good insight into the mind of the (female) INTP. :)

[INTJMom]

Wow. Daria is downright scary. I would never want someone like her for a friend!

Her speaking style reminds me of the comedienne, Roseanne.

[Economica]

Wow. Daria is downright scary. I would never want someone like her for a friend!

She got to me too at first but then she grows on you. :yes: She's just being defensive, anyway.

Her speaking style reminds me of the comedienne, Roseanne.

Now there's someone I'm not familiar with. *youtubes*

[INTJMom]

She got to me too at first but then she grows on you. :yes: She's just being defensive, anyway.

Now there's someone I'm not familiar with. *youtubes*Roseanne was really hilarious before she got exceedingly vulgar.



Is this lady an INTP?
http://www.jaunted.com/files/3/kate_beckinsale_italian_ice.jpg

She has a similar kind of "air" and fashion style that the other lady had.

[FineLine]

Just a random observation here.

Mature INTPs can "court" someone quite effectively. I know a female INTP, age 45 or 50, who tends to be very quiet, intellectual, and uninvolved in what's going on around her when she's in "neutral" mode. But when she decides it's worth her while to target someone and court their interest, or when she is in a circle of friends and decides it's worth her time to get involved and participate, then she can turn into the exact opposite of her usual manner. IOW, she can become very chatty, excited, energetic, and opinionated. But after seeing her like that, it's funny to see her shut down and become quiet and uninvolved again. It's like night and day. But that's just who she is.

Same thing with male INTPs. I knew a male INTP in his early 20s who was extremely quiet, intellectual, closed-off, and kind of irritable and rigid in his interactions with others. A couple decades later, I ran into him when he was "courting" a boss for employment, and he was chatty, voluble, pleasant, etc. But once he got the job, he tended to settle back a bit into more of a monotone, uninvolved mode. Still, he had become very "socialized" in the couple decades that I didn't see him (he had gotten married and had some kids), and he could really turn on the ease and charm and be quite outgoing when he chose.

So maybe that's the case, here. INTJMom's acquaintance may be "courting" INTJMom. That is, the new INTP acquaintance may value the fact that her child is friends with INTJMom's child, so she is making it a priority to get to know INTJMom personally. With time, if INTJMom and the acquaintance continue to get to know each other, the acquaintance may eventually settle back more into a relaxed state that is more INTP-appearing. But for now, the acquaintance may be really turning on the charm in order to build a personal bond that's important to her (for the sake of her child, or whatever).

Again, just a random observation. Being a little older than many posters here, I sometimes get to see an aspect of personality types that others haven't yet seen: How personality types develop as they hit middle age.

And it's my experience that INTPs can "socialize" quite well if they choose. They've got the brainpower to figure out what they have to do. It's just a question of whether they decide to make "socializing" a priority in their lives as they get older.

[Edit:]

I think what Jennifer may mean is that you're looking at types much too one-dimensionally. You don't seem to think types can be dynamic. Types have many sides. They are not just one set of behaviors. NTs have an SF side, and vice versa. After all, even an INTP has Si and Fe in their top four functions (ie, an SF side). Similarly, an ESFP has Te and Ni in their top four functions (ie, an NT side). People are colorful, multi-faceted and often times contradictory. Even the nicest, bubbliest person has an iron fist underneath. We all have sometimes very contradictory dimensions to our personality. In other words, what type someone is is not always, or even frequently, obvious. People are so much more dynamic than that, especially as they acquire experience. You're looking at one tree in the forest, boxing people in too narrowly.

I'm an I, but I speak easily with people when I'm not in bad mood. In fact, I can be the life of any party. I joke easily. I'm an F, but I like to think I have a very reasonable and intellectual side, too. I'm an N, but I have a meticulous eye for detail and art. Some people might have difficulty typing me if I were to keep my type from them. People are very multi-faceted and dynamic. To be fair, you're an F, but you have a very strong intellectual and analytical bent, right, Athe?

The more balanced people are, the more difficult they are to type. As people get older, they presumably become more balanced. I generally find it more difficult to type people in their 40's or above.

I see no reason to doubt that this lady is an INTP. I could see myself doing and saying the same things given a similar situation.

Mempy and JAVO have it right (and I'm sure others, as well; I haven't read the thread in its entirety). What I said above is basically the same thing that Mempy and JAVO are saying, albeit from a different angle.

[arcticangel02]

Possibly?

Hah, there's a vague answer. She does seem sort of closed in on herself, but that could be just because she's trying to juggle a thousand things at once. And she's on the phone... INTPs don't like phones so much. ;)

The INTP I know (she's still young, but...) always has a very individual style - she won't be wearing the latest fashions, or anything, but she knows what she likes and always looks good. Her style isn't so elegant, but that's not to say another INTP's wouldn't be.

It's not exactly a typical INTP's appearance, though. Looking at the photo, I dunno. My first thought was ESxx of some description, though she's wearing mostly dark colours (ISxx?) and seems to be sort of disorganised (xNxP)?

Lol, okay, I'm making wild guesses based on nothing more than whims in my head. Stopping now!

[arcticangel02]

So maybe that's the case, here. INTJMom's acquaintance may be "courting" INTJMom.

That sounds quite possible. She's decided it's worth the time to get to know the mother of a good friend of her son's, and judging from what INTJMom mentioned, it seems like this other woman made a very deliberate move to come talk to her and have a conversation.

And it's my experience that INTPs can "socialize" quite well if they choose. They've got the brainpower to figure out what they have to do. It's just a question of whether they decide to make "socializing" a priority in their lives as they get older.

Absolutely. They can, they just normally choose not to expend their energy in that area. I watch my INTP friend - she's only 20, but she's perfectly amiable and pleasant and interested when she has to deal with bosses or customers (or the like). They'd never guess she might be grumbling behind the facade. ;) But I imagine an extra 30 years of practice would enable an INTP to initiate and steer a conversation like an Extrovert might without too much stress.

[Sandy]

The more balanced people are, the more difficult they are to type. As people get older, they presumably become more balanced. I generally find it more difficult to type people in their 40's or above.

I see no reason to doubt that this lady is an INTP. I could see myself doing and saying the same things given a similar situation.

I was going to say what you said, Javo.

My INTP boyfriend is very warm and friendly and will walk up to people to engage in spirited conversation. His facial and body language also seems very feeling, however I know he's a deep Ti. I think he has developed this side of him well.

[INTJMom]

Possibly?

Hah, there's a vague answer. She does seem sort of closed in on herself, but that could be just because she's trying to juggle a thousand things at once. And she's on the phone... INTPs don't like phones so much. ;)

The INTP I know (she's still young, but...) always has a very individual style - she won't be wearing the latest fashions, or anything, but she knows what she likes and always looks good. Her style isn't so elegant, but that's not to say another INTP's wouldn't be.

It's not exactly a typical INTP's appearance, though. Looking at the photo, I dunno. My first thought was ESxx of some description, though she's wearing mostly dark colours (ISxx?) and seems to be sort of disorganised (xNxP)?

Lol, okay, I'm making wild guesses based on nothing more than whims in my head. Stopping now!The lady in the photo is Kate Beckinsdale and an INTP female here had a picture of her for an avatar at one time so I thought maybe it was because she could relate to her and her style. So possibly K. B. is an INTP. If she is, she reminds me of the other lady's style.

I looked at Merkw's list of INTPs. The Olsen twins were on there. They seemed to have a similar style, too.

[INTJMom]

Just a random observation here.

Mature INTPs can "court" someone quite effectively. I know a female INTP, age 45 or 50, who tends to be very quiet, intellectual, and uninvolved in what's going on around her when she's in "neutral" mode. But when she decides it's worth her while to target someone and court their interest, or when she is in a circle of friends and decides it's worth her time to get involved and participate, then she can turn into the exact opposite of her usual manner. IOW, she can become very chatty, excited, energetic, and opinionated. But after seeing her like that, it's funny to see her shut down and become quiet and uninvolved again. It's like night and day. But that's just who she is.

Same thing with male INTPs. I knew a male INTP in his early 20s who was extremely quiet, intellectual, closed-off, and kind of irritable and rigid in his interactions with others. A couple decades later, I ran into him when he was "courting" a boss for employment, and he was chatty, voluble, pleasant, etc. But once he got the job, he tended to settle back a bit into more of a monotone, uninvolved mode. Still, he had become very "socialized" in the couple decades that I didn't see him (he had gotten married and had some kids), and he could really turn on the ease and charm and be quite outgoing when he chose.

So maybe that's the case, here. INTJMom's acquaintance may be "courting" INTJMom. That is, the new INTP acquaintance may value the fact that her child is friends with INTJMom's child, so she is making it a priority to get to know INTJMom personally. With time, if INTJMom and the acquaintance continue to get to know each other, the acquaintance may eventually settle back more into a relaxed state that is more INTP-appearing. But for now, the acquaintance may be really turning on the charm in order to build a personal bond that's important to her (for the sake of her child, or whatever).

Again, just a random observation. Being a little older than many posters here, I sometimes get to see an aspect of personality types that others haven't yet seen: How personality types develop as they hit middle age.

And it's my experience that INTPs can "socialize" quite well if they choose. They've got the brainpower to figure out what they have to do. It's just a question of whether they decide to make "socializing" a priority in their lives as they get older.

[Edit:]

Mempy and JAVO have it right (and I'm sure others, as well; I haven't read the thread in its entirety). What I said above is basically the same thing that Mempy and JAVO are saying, albeit from a different angle.I agree with you. If our sons were not friends, we would not have spoken to each other.

[FineLine]

I agree with you. If our sons were not friends, we would not have spoken to each other.

I'll just add that there's nothing wrong with "courting" someone for a specific reason.

For most people, reaching out to a stranger and making friends is kind of risky and requires an effort. So it's natural for individuals to invest their social energy in other individuals with whom they already have some kind of incidental bond: Our kids know each other, we work in similar fields, we seem to have some interests in common, I like your fashion style and would like to learn more about you, etc.

Having a pre-existing incidental bond and/or some common interests provides a solid foundation for the friendship bond and helps it grow stronger more quickly.

[Athenian200]

I only type 20 wpm and I'm not good at describing things, so there's no way I could give you enough information for you to fully judge her type. My question was not what type is she. My question was could she really be an INTP because as I said, she was somewhat warm and pleasant.

Oh. But you didn't tell how pleasant and warm. Extremely warm/effusive, or just sort of calm, pleasant, and kind in her approach? I would be more likely to believe the latter to be INTP than the former.

As long as there is one INTP female here who says she could behave in such a warm manner, then I am satisfied this lady is probably an INTP like she says.

Why? I really don't get that sort of thing at all. Are you just the sort who doesn't like to question things much, and prefers to believe what's said unless it throws up a lot of red flags? Sigh.


I think I'd like to get to know her better. INxx women are so hard to find in real life. And she knows about MBTI! :D

Well, if she's interesting, enjoys talking to you, and likes what you like, then it really doesn't matter what type she is... you should just be friends with her if she comes across as nice and you feel like she's a good person.

[INTJMom]

Oh. But you didn't tell how pleasant and warm. Extremely warm/effusive, or just sort of calm, pleasant, and kind in her approach? I would be more likely to believe the latter to be INTP than the former.Sorry. My mistake. I apologize.

Why? I really don't get that sort of thing at all. Are you just the sort who doesn't like to question things much, and prefers to believe what's said unless it throws up a lot of red flags? Sigh.
I am the way I am. I prefer not to call people liars or assume they don't know what they're talking about when I don't even know them.

In case you are unaware of it, I find your sigh highly insulting. You hurt my feelings. You are not any better than me, only different. My way of interacting with people is not inferior to yours. Anyway, why do you think I started this thread? Because I thought she might be wrong. I asked her if she was sure... etc. etc. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge, but I don't think it means that you can abuse me all you want.

Well, if she's interesting, enjoys talking to you, and likes what you like, then it really doesn't matter what type she is... you should just be friends with her if she comes across as nice and you feel like she's a good person.You're right. It doesn't matter what type she is. I'm not sure she meets all that criteria.

[Athenian200]

I am the way I am. I prefer not to call people liars or assume they don't know what they're talking about when I don't even know them.

In case you are unaware of it, I find your sigh highly insulting. You hurt my feelings. You are not any better than me, only different. My way of interacting with people is not inferior to yours. Anyway, why do you think I started this thread? Because I thought she might be wrong. I asked her if she was sure... etc. etc. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge, but I don't think it means that you can abuse me all you want.


I didn't say I was better than you. I don't think that, but I felt frustrated that you wanted to start with the assumption that the person was correct if it were possible. It made me feel like the normal process of evaluating type was being dismissed, and that was what bothered me.

I wasn't even discussing your way of interacting with people, which I have no problem with. I was discussing your way of interpreting the information you had. I actually think you have a very good way of interacting with people.

I also don't think it's calling someone a liar to think that they may not be correct about something. Even if they know what they're talking about, they might have misjudged for one reason or another. That's all I mean.

I'm sorry that you feel abused. I didn't intend that.

[Jae Rae]

My INTP boyfriend is very warm and friendly and will walk up to people to engage in spirited conversation. His facial and body language also seems very feeling, however I know he's a deep Ti. I think he has developed this side of him well.

My INTP husband has a friendly exterior and a pretty well-developed Fe. He was a very popular and effective PTA President. He's in his late 40s and much less Introverted than when we met. His inclination still is to avoid crowds and large social occasions, but he's a warm, natural host. He probably wouldn't go up to someone for the purpose of meeting the parent of one of his kid's friends, but would happily carpool, watch said friend for an afternoon, make dinner if someone were sick, etc.

Maybe the woman in question is close on the T/F split. It's also possible she sensed a kindred N and wanted to meet you for yourself. :)

Jae Rae

[Sandy]

My INTP husband has a friendly exterior and a pretty well-developed Fe. He was a very popular and effective PTA President. He's in his late 40s and much less Introverted than when we met. His inclination still is to avoid crowds and large social occasions, but he's a warm, natural host. He probably wouldn't go up to someone for the purpose of meeting the parent of one of his kid's friends, but would happily carpool, watch said friend for an afternoon, make dinner if someone were sick, etc.

Maybe the woman in question is close on the T/F split. It's also possible she sensed a kindred N and wanted to meet you for yourself. :)

Jae Rae

Yep! Everything that you stated, Jae Rae, rings true for my INTP! However he surprised me, at first, that he was introverted, because of his ability to walk up to people and display friendly banter. Sometimes he seems very extroverted. Also, he's a pastor, so I know he's worked hard on his openness. He said he use to hate hugging others, but after doing this for 20+ years with the church folks, he can hug with the best of us huggers! :smile:

[Jae Rae]

Yep! Everything that you stated, Jae Rae, rings true for my INTP! However he surprised me, at first, that he was introverted, because of his ability to walk up to people and display friendly banter. Sometimes he seems very extroverted. Also, he's a pastor, so I know he's worked hard on his openness. He said he use to hate hugging others, but after doing this for 20+ years with the church folks, he can hug with the best of us huggers! :smile:

That's interesting. I wrote about that, then left it out. He realized that to work effectively with the PTA folks, most of whom were women, he needed to be more physically demonstrative (eg, hand on shoulder). We just had Christmas with his family, and I can tell you he was raised by very non-huggy folks, but he's better at it now. Being PTA president was hard for him and he only did it for one year. Then he became the IT guy. ;)


Jae Rae

[Sandy]

That's interesting. I wrote about that, then left it out. He realized that to work effectively with the PTA folks, most of whom were women, he needed to be more physically demonstrative (eg, hand on shoulder). We just had Christmas with his family, and I can tell you he was raised by very non-huggy folks, but he's better at it now. Being PTA president was hard for him and he only did it for one year. Then he became the IT guy. ;)


Jae Rae

Yes, my INTP can lead, but I know that's not what he enjoys doing (other than the church, but he believes this is his calling). He once was a supervisor at his work (aerospace engineer), and he said he hated it and got out of that position shortly thereafter. (sort of like me, I can do it, but I don't enjoy it)

[Jae Rae]

Just to follow up, I went to a party tonight and met an INTP woman. She was friendly, not gushy, and the conversation moved easily from topic to topic. We began by chatting about books, then discussed her job as CFO for a software start-up company, then moved to kids. Amazingly, even though we live 30 miles apart, it turns out one of her business partners has a kid who's one of my daughter's best friends in high school. As we talked we found more coincidences and synchronicities. Finally I couldn't resist, and asked if she knew about MBTI. She knew her type, even though she'd taken the test more than 10 years ago. I don't think I know another INTP woman
(except on this forum).

Jae Rae

[INTJMom]

Thanks! So now we know.

I got a bad impression about INTPs from some of the INTP men I have interacted with. The women are making a better impression.

[Jae Rae]

I should also mention she took my hand when I told her my boss of 22+ years died last summer. That was unexpectedly warm, especially as it came early in the conversation. I think the opinion that folks mellow and round out as they age certainly fits - she was definitely INTP, but with good Fe (kind and approachable). She said she tested near the middle on all functions.

Some of my favorite men are INTPs. (smiley face)

Jae Rae

[quietgirl]

I know how you feel. As I said, I questioned her on that. She was quite aware that I types recharge by being alone and Es recharge by being with people. She was positive she was an I. I think she belongs to the Jung Society? (And she pronounced it in German - Yoo-ng.)

I have no way of knowing how much stress she was enduring.

She was definitely an N because I can't stand what S women talk about.

People are so complex. I'm not really the type to continue arguing with someone or disbelieving someone when they're so sure they're right. I can more easily believe that I don't know enough people and I don't understand the subject well enough to tell her she's wrong.

Are you taking into account the fact that she's nearly 50 years of age?

As I said before, the only reason I had the idea that INTPs are anti-social is because of a couple of outspoken anti-social INTPs I've interacted with on this site. But in all fairness, they were all men, I believe. Xander seems to be one of the few I can get along with. He's quite outgoing, I believe (and he drives a NICE car!) ;)

I don't really know what INTP women are like except for Jennifer and I LOVE her. I agree with practically everything she says as if I had said it myself. It's funny that the females hit me differently than the males, because I really am put off by most INTP males - to the point of becoming furious sometimes. They really irk me.

Anyhow, it's so difficult to "type" someone with a brief online description. As Carl Jung said, "Every individual is an exception to the rule."




Well, I know two "official" INTPs very well. Both have taken the actual test through school or a job and one actually has a Master's degree in Psychology so this stuff is his bag. They are both males, but I see differences between them & the general stereotype of INTPs.

Honestly? Both are fairly polite people with a good circle of friends. It could be due to the college environment that we were all in, but INTP's do have Fe in their top four functions & if you follow the theory that we prefer our top four over our shadows, then the Fe will make someone a bit more cautious about being polite to others. Both of them also will go out and socialize to a point, though they are normally the quiet guy at the bar unless they find someone specific to talk to to & they can relate with. I actually developed a close friendship with one of them in college because we'd usually hang out together at the bar while everyone else fluttered around the room socializing. However, both of them can get VERY chatty with me - probably due to the N connection or even the Ti connection. I've held a 4 hour phone conversation with one of them (the one I dated) & the other I talk to on a fairly regular basis - he actually runs his own business now & has to talk with & be friendly to clients on a regular basis. He's also thoughtful and made a huge effort to thank my boyfriend after he helped him out with something - more of an effort than I would've done, to be honest.

You mentioned the woman is in her fifties - she could very well be starting to develop her Fe.

[JAVO]

In previous situations and relationships, I have behaved exactly as FineLine and quietgirl described.

[Athenian200]

So essentially, MBTI is useless because it isn't predictive of peoples tendencies to a significant degree. If we can have INTP's going around acting sociable despite their inferior being Fe, then what does MBTI tell us? If we can have an INTP who likes to just run with the first connection they see without really thinking, what does it tell us?

If such terribly great variation is possible within types, isn't the point of having all these types and ways of finding them sort of negated?

You all may be right, but it means that this theory doesn't work the way it's supposed to because it doesn't give significant information about the people it's intended to assess, and it needs to be refined again.

[alicia91]

She was quite aware that I types recharge by being alone and Es recharge by being with people.

Take this comment for what it's worth because I'm quite new to MBTI, but I think too much is made of the E's need to be around people to recharge and I's need to be alone to recharge. I don't think it's that cut and dry.

I doubted my E'ness for a long time and felt that although I like to socialize it can be draining and like to relax by myself at times. I asked my husband and best friend who are extremely outgoing about this and both of them often recharge by themselves - my husband recharges by tinkering in the garage, my friend does yoga. I realize that MY experience probably means little, but I think this idea is overly simplistic.

So, I think your friend may have mistyped herself as an I - but seems more E.

[Athenian200]

Take this comment for what it's worth because I'm quite new to MBTI, but I think too much is made of the E's need to be around people to recharge and I's need to be alone to recharge. I don't think it's that cut and dry.

I doubted my E'ness for a long time and felt that although I like to socialize it can be draining and like to relax by myself at times. I asked my husband and best friend who are extremely outgoing about this and both of them often recharge by themselves - my husband recharges by tinkering in the garage, my friend does yoga. I realize that MY experience probably means little, but I think this idea is overly simplistic.

So, I think your friend may have mistyped herself as an I - but seems more E.

You know, that's an interesting insight. I had assumed most of the people I know were Introverts simply because they weren't very animated all the time and seemed to get tired after standing or talking for a long time. The only person I knew who really seemed to become energized by people was an ESxP, and even they had to tune out at the very end of the day and watch television for a couple hours before bed.

But I was surprised when there were several Extraverts among them... I do agree that I sort of get the impression that Extraverts are the cool people who do everything, and are what everyone else wants to be like, but aren't because don't have as much energy or resources to call on. I think perhaps I've misunderstood that dichotomy myself.

I once thought that E stood for energetic and I stood for inert, indicating our respective natural states. :)

[cascadeco]

So essentially, MBTI is useless because it isn't predictive of peoples tendencies to a significant degree. If we can have INTP's going around acting sociable despite their inferior being Fe, then what does MBTI tell us? If we can have an INTP who likes to just run with the first connection they see without really thinking, what does it tell us?

If such terribly great variation is possible within types, isn't the point of having all these types and ways of finding them sort of negated?

You all may be right, but it means that this theory doesn't work the way it's supposed to because it doesn't give significant information about the people it's intended to assess, and it needs to be refined again.

Well I've always felt that mbti works wonderfully for extreme versions of type - you know, 100%I, 100%N, etc etc.

I also think it's a useful theory and the concepts (i.e. different people having different innate behaviors/motivations) are useful.

But the minute you start factoring in personal growth and development, as well as learned behavior, as well as people who are 60/40 or seemingly 50/50 for each dimension, its practicality really declines. It's still an interesting theory though and I still believe it pertains to people; however, it's not nearly as black and white as one might think. Like, you can't just say 'person with X behavior is definitely an xxxx'. You have to look at the person as a whole, over time, and to a certain degree I think you'd have to know the persons' personal history -- i.e. background, how he was raised, his emotional/psychological health and what he's dealing with or focusing on in a given moment, his value system (example - T's who find importance in or strive for social niceties/harmony) etc etc, to REALLY know the person and understand why he's acting the way he is and what's really at the root. And this is why there is a LOT about a persons' personality that I think is outside of mbti.

[INTJMom]

So essentially, MBTI is useless because it isn't predictive of peoples tendencies to a significant degree. If we can have INTP's going around acting sociable despite their inferior being Fe, then what does MBTI tell us? If we can have an INTP who likes to just run with the first connection they see without really thinking, what does it tell us?

If such terribly great variation is possible within types, isn't the point of having all these types and ways of finding them sort of negated?

You all may be right, but it means that this theory doesn't work the way it's supposed to because it doesn't give significant information about the people it's intended to assess, and it needs to be refined again.Well, perhaps it is useless to you, depending on what you wanted to use it for, but it has been of such incalculable value to me that I could never stop using it.

I used to think there was something seriously wrong with me, that I was irreparably defective, until I read about the dichotomies and discovered that there's nothing "wrong" with me; I'm just different from the majority. Not only that, but there nothing wrong with my difference. My differences have value just like everyone else's.

In addition, I learned to relax and accept my kids the way they were instead of being afraid of what people would think of me, and trying to mold my children into some "perfect child" mold.

You sound just like I used to be - always wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater. But my ISTP husband finally broke me of that, and he's right. Learning to make small adjustments is better than throwing out the baby.

To tell you the truth, I'm a little frustrated too after 17 years of learning and using this stuff, only to find out here on this site that some of what I believed is wrong. I hate having to start over at square one, too, but actually it's not that bad. Just some minor adjustments here and there.

I have never thought that that MBTI describes anyone 100%. After asking questions and figuring out someone's type and letting them read the descriptions, I would always let them know that it's probably only going to describe them about 85%

I have always read that the dichotomies are preferences and that even though someone has a preference, they also act in the other ways sometimes. MBTI types are not boxes that no one is allowed to climb out of. Maybe this lady has a high E, yet she's still an I? I can extravert. I do it a lot. I sing on stage in front of hundreds of people. That doesn't make me an E. It makes me an I who also can E when necessary.

I think MBTI is predictive of people's tendencies to a significant degree. I find it incredibly useful. I wouldn't want to have lived the last 17 years without it.

[INTJMom]

Take this comment for what it's worth because I'm quite new to MBTI, but I think too much is made of the E's need to be around people to recharge and I's need to be alone to recharge. I don't think it's that cut and dry.
...I have heard that recently, too.
Barron and Tieger teach the recharging principle.

The other way is harder to define. How can you tell where someone is directing their energy? How can you tell how much of it is inward and how much of it is outward? What kind of questions would you ask in order to find that out? What clues would you look for?

[quietgirl]

So essentially, MBTI is useless because it isn't predictive of peoples tendencies to a significant degree. If we can have INTP's going around acting sociable despite their inferior being Fe, then what does MBTI tell us? If we can have an INTP who likes to just run with the first connection they see without really thinking, what does it tell us?

If such terribly great variation is possible within types, isn't the point of having all these types and ways of finding them sort of negated?

You all may be right, but it means that this theory doesn't work the way it's supposed to because it doesn't give significant information about the people it's intended to assess, and it needs to be refined again.

I think the problem is the typical stereotype of an introvert or an extravert is that of an extreme. Most people are not an extreme, but instead fall somewhere around the middle. Also, there is a preconceived notion of an introvert being anti social and overly quiet & an extravert being a super social butterfly. I know a few shy extraverts... does that mean they are not extraverted despite drawing their energies from people? It's just not a clear-cut line of a person being quiet or not. I feel by making the generalization that an INTP should act strictly like an INTP limits people rather than frees them to develop their personality. It also feeds into the assumption that introverts are unable to have a social life or interact with people normally, which is simply not true.

Also, the meat of the MBTI is in the cognitive functions. If someone has extraverted feeling, you're going to see that function as it's something they show to the world. Se may be my inferior function, but I still use extraverted sensing over introverted sensing. Therefore, the outside world is bound to see my sensing in that way. People only really see my Ni & Ti when I consciously bring it out. This is most likely the reason we see some crossover between types before we get to know the person we are typing. I am comfortable using my auxillary Fe, so I am sure I appear different than an INFJ who relies on Ni more & hasn't developed their Fe fully. An introvert is really just a personal with a dominant introverted function - if an introvert has developed their extraverted functions, they will appear more outgoing when accessing them.

We're all individuals who will not fit perfectly into 16 little boxes. Could you imagine a world composed of just 16 different types people? However, the usefulness of MBTI is that it points out the tendancies certain people will have according to the functions they use the most. I find this is where the system is the most useful in dealing with interactions between people. My boyfriend and I BOTH show Fe to the world and are possible both auxillary Fe folk. Therefore, it's easy to interact with him using my Fe because I understand that he is comfortable using that function.

Also, MBTI shows that it's okay to act a certain way or explains why we call upon certain actions more readily than others. However, people grow and change & often with the knowledge of MBTI, find ways to start to develop functions other than the ones we use most often. As this happens, variations within type are bound to happen but if you look closely, you'll see that we are still the most graceful with the functions we naturally prefer.

[Athenian200]

I value MBTI for what it has allowed for me to understand about other people, instead of thinking there is something wrong with them. They may not be right for me, but they are exactly how they should be and have unseen virtues.

Well, that is a good lesson... it teaches you how different people can be, and that there are acceptable alternative ways of looking at things. I guess it's just that I wanted to use it for more than that.

I think the problem is the typical stereotype of an introvert or an extravert is that of an extreme. Most people are not an extreme, but instead fall somewhere around the middle. Also, there is a preconceived notion of an introvert being anti social and overly quiet & an extravert being a super social butterfly. I know a few shy extraverts... does that mean they are not extraverted despite drawing their energies from people? It's just not a clear-cut line of a person being quiet or not. I feel by making the generalization that an INTP should act strictly like an INTP limits people rather than frees them to develop their personality. It also feeds into the assumption that introverts are unable to have a social life or interact with people normally, which is simply not true.

I'm just saying that if they keep falling in the middle, then it's not going to be predictive enough for me to assume anything about their behavior or emotional patterns from their type, rendering it far less possible to guess a person's type or be certain of it.

Also, the meat of the MBTI is in the cognitive functions. If someone has extraverted feeling, you're going to see that function as it's something they show to the world. Se may be my inferior function, but I still use extraverted sensing over introverted sensing. Therefore, the outside world is bound to see my sensing in that way. People only really see my Ni & Ti when I consciously bring it out. This is most likely the reason we see some crossover between types before we get to know the person we are typing. I am comfortable using my auxillary Fe, so I am sure I appear different than an INFJ who relies on Ni more & hasn't developed their Fe fully. An introvert is really just a personal with a dominant introverted function - if an introvert has developed their extraverted functions, they will appear more outgoing when accessing them.


But a lot of people don't agree with function order, and many simply have different ideas about how it should work.
We're all individuals who will not fit perfectly into 16 little boxes. Could you imagine a world composed of just 16 different types people? However, the usefulness of MBTI is that it points out the tendancies certain people will have according to the functions they use the most. I find this is where the system is the most useful in dealing with interactions between people. My boyfriend and I BOTH show Fe to the world and are possible both auxillary Fe folk. Therefore, it's easy to interact with him using my Fe because I understand that he is comfortable using that function.


I want to be able to apply it to people and have a decent idea of their typical behavior. All these nuances and exceptions being introduced allowing them to go straight in the opposite direction personality-wise wouldn't permit that.

Also, MBTI shows that it's okay to act a certain way or explains why we call upon certain actions more readily than others. However, people grow and change & often with the knowledge of MBTI, find ways to start to develop functions other than the ones we use most often. As this happens, variations within type are bound to happen but if you look closely, you'll see that we are still the most graceful with the functions we naturally prefer.

But how do we know which functions those are?

I'm so confused. Everything you've said makes sense, but I don't know how to react to it.

[alicia91]

I'm just saying that if they keep falling in the middle, then it's not going to be predictive enough for me to assume anything about their behavior or emotional patterns from their type, rendering it far less possible to guess a person's type or be certain of it.

I think you might be right about that - that you can't use it to make predictions or assumptions about people. Where I see it coming in handy is more for personal development - such as helping you find a good career, finding areas for personal growth, understanding yourself and so on. I just don't think it's enough of a 'science' to base much else on it. I think it's because most of us aren't 'pure' types (100% any of the factors) and where we fall in each range certainly makes a huge difference IMO. Personally I'm about 55/45 E versus I, and one of the questions (do you like to spend time alone to recharge?) I answered Yes to - yet I'm still dominately E. My E husband is probably 85% E and he appears much more outgoing than I am, but STILL wants time alone to recharge (I guess that was in the 15% of his I answers). Drawing energy from people or being alone is just ONE of the questions so it's not enough to draw any conclusion from!

[quietgirl]

I'm just saying that if they keep falling in the middle, then it's not going to be predictive enough for me to assume anything about their behavior or emotional patterns from their type, rendering it far less possible to guess a person's type or be certain of it.

I want to be able to apply it to people and have a decent idea of their typical behavior. All these nuances and exceptions being introduced allowing them to go straight in the opposite direction personality-wise wouldn't permit that.

I'm so confused. Everything you've said makes sense, but I don't know how to react to it.

Look around the MBTIc forum at those who are fairly certain their type. Do you see basic similarities between us? INFJ's, we strive to relate. How many threads have the INFJ's chirped up & said "Yes! I do that too! You just described me!" However, there are differences between me & you, cascademn, toonia, wolfmaiden, jen, kiddo, cafe, etc. Otherwise, I bet our posts would be really painful to read because it'd be the same thing over & over again from those silly INFJs! Being different doesn't mean we're deviating from our types, it just means that every person is not a carbon copy of another.

Another example of the same type expressed in different ways is the ESFP. The stereotype is that ESFP's are social, gossipy people without much depth. I'm sure there are plenty of ESFP's like that, but what about the ESFP's that are simply highly perceptive of their external environment? I have an ESFP friend who enjoys people, but isn't much of a gossip. I admire him greatly because he is absolutely in tune with his external environment. Hiking with him is such an amazing experience because my eyes are opened up to things that I just wouldn't have noticed otherwise. That is totally in the realm of a dominant Se, but he's expressing his Se in a different way than the sociable, chatty, gossipy members of his type.

It's all in how you are expressing and to what extent you are expressing your preferences. I am sure there are INTP's who do not develop their Fe whatsoever, but I am also sure there are INTP's who do. I highly doubt they are going to deviate from their type so dramatically as to become an ESFJ, thus throwing type theory out the window, but it doesn't mean that an INTP is incapable of being polite and talking to others! I've felt, for the most part, the INTP's here on this forum to be polite and despite stereotypes of the personality, even initiating conversation! :) As an introvert, I actually initiated conversation with my current boyfriend the night we met. It doesn't make me less of an INFJ, it just means that I stepped out of my comfort zone for a second (and I was naturally a little awkward about it).

I think the real thing you need to ask yourself is how often you use the preferences you do not prefer & how comfortable you are using them. Also, in what way are they expressed when you do use them? An INFJ using Fi, which we are fully capable of doing, is going to look different than an INFP using Fi.

You can use MBTI to predict behavior in the sense that someone is more likely to behave a certain way when using functions they prefer. They have the tendancy to rely on their most comfortable preferences when they are not developing others or in a high stress situation (depending on which theory you believe). However, nothing is certain! I don't think you'll ever find certainty in MBTI, as it is a theory and not a fact. I don't find variations that stay within the logic of preferences of a type to be exceptions. I find the exception being the person who is completely devoid of feeling, thinking, sensing, or intuiting.

[runvardh]

After some of my experience with even young adult NTs I find it difficult to believe you'll come across a "freezer" with out any heat in it. The rest of this was going to be a twisted use of thermodynamics so I'll finish it here.

[OneWithSoul]

Sounds like an INTP. Remember, you don't always have to be completely, say, a T. You can be a like 60% T, and 40% F, but still be a T. Overall, I think she was an INTP.