I've Mistyped Myself

[Urchin]

I was having a conversation about type dynamics and more traditional Jungian theory, and I realized that I am not actually much of an INTP. In addition to being told on MBTIc several times that I seem INTJish, I ran into an incident this evening that opened my eyes.

I had a fight with an INFJ, because she felt something I said was a passive-agressive attack towards her. I had intended my comments to be taken literally, and had a lot of trouble understanding why she was upset. Her behavior confused me. My boyfriend (who I think understands me quite well) said this about it:

<Boyfriend> It's because your ideals of how you think reality should be are getting in the way of your observations of how it is.

It was then that I poured over some functional dynamics with a friend and realized how vastly Ni I am. I am so abstract and internal that I expect the world to comply. When it doesn't, I get confused or frustrated because my Te can't handle it.

I was mislead by the MBTI system because I am disorganized and not goal-oriented. This would make me seem like a Perceiver, but when you look at the type dynamics of it, I'm quite clearly an INTJ.

Henceforth, I shall identify myself as an INTJ. Really, the P/J distinction is a misleading one. IN(T) versus IT(N) is much better.

[ygolo]

Does that mean you haven't developed your Te enough?

[The_Liquid_Laser]

The P/J distinction can be pretty confusing for introverts. It's pretty clear for extraverts though. For introverts "J's" are really dominant perceivers and "P's" are really dominant judgers.

[Nocap]

The P/J distinction can be pretty confusing for introverts.It's tough for extraverts too. I kind of like the socionics three letter system. Less confusion that way. I'm ILE there. Intuitive first, Logic second and I'm an Extravert, so the first function is extraverted. I do not favor socionics overall - their descriptions are far too generalized and don't give enough credit to the second functions... also what's up with the "characteristic facial features?"



It's pretty clear for extraverts though. For introverts "J's" are really dominant perceivers and "P's" are really dominant judgers.
True enough, but I still think that E_TPs are viewed as more J than E_FPs. J and P is nothing more than determining the attitudes (and subsequent order) of the two main functions.

There seems to be a lot of confusion - Js don't necessarily keep their desks in better order. Ps also might show up on time to things...

[Kiddo]

I first tested as INTP. Ask anyone here if they think I'm an INTP. :devil:

As far as J vs. P dominance, from what I have read, they are most often associated with hemisphere dominance. Left is J and right is P.

Hemispheric Dominance Test (http://www.mtsu.edu/~studskl/hd/hemispheric_dominance.html)
Lateralization of brain function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralization_of_brain_function)

The problem I've encountered with the MBTI is that I'm barely left dominant, and so the questions they use can swing the results to either INFP or INFJ.

In fact, there are times when I will force myself to step back, and I will feel part of my brain turning on and I will be able to percieve the information differently. Where at one point I will be completely convinced of my standing, I will step back and demand of myself to open up my perceptions, and then I will be able to see weaknesses in my theory. It actually annoys me to no end some days.

[Schizm]

I first tested as INTP. Ask anyone here if they think I'm an INTP. :devil:

As far as J vs. P dominance, from what I have read, they are most often associated with hemisphere dominance. Left is J and right is P.

Hemispheric Dominance Test (http://www.mtsu.edu/~studskl/hd/hemispheric_dominance.html)
Lateralization of brain function - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateralization_of_brain_function)

The problem I've encountered with the MBTI is that I'm barely left dominant, and so the questions they use can swing the results to either INFP or INFJ.

In fact, there are times when I will force myself to step back, and I will feel part of my brain turning on and I will be able to percieve the information differently. Where at one point I will be completely convinced of my standing, I will step back and demand of myself to open up my perceptions, and then I will be able to see weaknesses in my theory. It actually annoys me to no end some days.


Well, Ni is actually a left-brained function.

I just realized that I am an INTJ 5w4. I try to use both sides of my brain equally.

[Mycroft]

<Boyfriend> It's because your ideals of how you think reality should be are getting in the way of your observations of how it is.


INTPs can be idealistic, too. This is an introvert problem in general, an INXX problem in particular.

I think you're taking a rather large leap to go from this to believing yourself to be an INTJ. Descriptions of Ni and Ti have a lot of overlap.

Not to say you can't possibly be an INTJ, of course. It just seems like your premise is tenuous.

[cascadeco]

I first tested as INTP. Ask anyone here if they think I'm an INTP. :devil:

As far as J vs. P dominance, from what I have read, they are most often associated with hemisphere dominance. Left is J and right is P.

The problem I've encountered with the MBTI is that I'm barely left dominant, and so the questions they use can swing the results to either INFP or INFJ.

In fact, there are times when I will force myself to step back, and I will feel part of my brain turning on and I will be able to percieve the information differently. Where at one point I will be completely convinced of my standing, I will step back and demand of myself to open up my perceptions, and then I will be able to see weaknesses in my theory. It actually annoys me to no end some days.

Hehe...for me:

You responded as a right brained person to 10 questions, and you responded as a left brained person to 9 questions. You seemed to be comfortable using strategies for both sides for the brain. Your preference may be situational and apparent mainly when stress in a factor.

....That's about right. :)

[proteanmix]

Posts about YourLocalJesus's type moved here (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/whats-my-type/2860-our-local-jesus.html)

[YourLocalJesus]

Roger, chief.
Post removed from here and I will start posting there.

[Urchin]

extraverted Sensing (Se) *********************** (23.3)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ********************* (21.1)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) **************************************** (40.3)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *************************************** (39)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) **************************************** (40.6)
excellent use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************************** ** (52.7)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) **** (4.5)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ***************** (17.9)
limited use

It comes out INTP, but not by a lot. From the way I understand functional dynamics, I fit Ni/Te better than Ti/Ne. Even then, my auxillary function is under developed. I make models in my head of how the world should work, then I try to use them to deal with the external world. I don't observe and build models from my observations.

If you look at P/J on its own, I'm P because I'm less organized and planned, and fairly flexible. However, this is where the MBTI system is flawed. P/J is not a characteristic, it's a preference.

Is it possible to be an INTP under the Myers-Briggs system and an INTj under Jung's system? That seems to be most accurate.

This is annoying the ever-loving crap out of me. I can't identify as INTx. I want to know. I also want to be confident in my answer. I can't stand being undecided about this, and it bothers me that the systems don't appear to accord with one another.

I need everything to fit into a catagory. I can't stand it when things don't obey systems and theories. Gah.

I'm going to read more Jung now.

[Usehername]

I'm rather messy (messy being distinct from dirty; i am somewhat dirt phobic) and my room is disorganized until every few weeks when it is perfectly overhauled. I am a procrastinator at heart. I am not always on time like a Good Little J.

I am more comfortable getting a heads up on what's coming. I need to know things and let it settle in my brain before I get stuff thrown at me. I get stressed otherwise (unless I have a pre-programmed response in my head with the INTJ contingency planning).
I like to make lists. I plan my courses for school semesters in advance. I constantly plan out my future and am most at peace when things are structured in my environment.

I don't look like a J until you look a little deeper. Can you relate?

[Kiddo]

Well, Ni is actually a left-brained function.

I just realized that I am an INTJ 5w4. I try to use both sides of my brain equally.

Isn't Ni associated with ENXJ and INXJ types? And Ne is associated with ENXP and INXP types? So Ni would be left and Ne would be right.

[Splittet]

Is it possible to be an INTP under the Myers-Briggs system and an INTj under Jung's system? That seems to be most accurate.

Yes, it is, actually it is the same thing.

[Urchin]

Yes, it is, actually it is the same thing.

In that case, I feel better. The world is at peace again. My anxiety is quelled. Thank you.

INTP, INTj.

[Mycroft]

Yes, it is, actually it is the same thing.

I think you're confusing either Jung or MBTI with that socionics hooplah I see people going on about on this forum.

[Splittet]

I think you're confusing either Jung or MBTI with that socionics hooplah I see people going on about on this forum.

Are we not talking about Socionics? I thought the question was if MBTI INTP = Socionics INTj, and it is true. The reason I assumed she was referring to Socionics, is that I know only one kind of INTj, the Socionics kind. I didn't care to mention that she wrongly refers to it as Jung.

[Mycroft]

Are we not talking about Socionics? I thought the question was if MBTI INTP = Socionics INTj, and it is true. The reason I assumed she was referring to Socionics, is that I know only one kind of INTj, the Socionics kind. I didn't care to mention that she wrongly refers to it as Jung.

I'm confused now.

I demand clarification from the OP! Chop chop!

[Evan]

Are we not talking about Socionics? I thought the question was if MBTI INTP = Socionics INTj, and it is true. The reason I assumed she was referring to Socionics, is that I know only one kind of INTj, the Socionics kind. I didn't care to mention that she wrongly refers to it as Jung.

i think she was separating mbti and cognitive functions into two differently working systems. she wasn't talking about socionics at all.

problem is, they're the same system. so she's technically INTJ.

If you look at P/J on its own, I'm P because I'm less organized and planned, and fairly flexible. However, this is where the MBTI system is flawed.

Urchin, you can't look at P/J on its own...that's the problem. P/J ONLY has to do with whether or not your perceiving and judging functions are extroverted or introverted.

this caused me a great deal of confusion as well because i identify much more with descriptions of P than those of J (this is why you can't trust descriptions that treat MBTI as four independent binary oppositions). anyone somewhat new to MBTI would type me as a P right away. but with correctly applied theory, i'm a blatant J.

[Evan]

actually i guess you could separately define MBTI and jung, where MBTI is four independant oppositions and jung is cognitive function interactions.

but if you define it that way, MBTI is a pretty crappy system.

[Mycroft]

actually i guess you could separately define MBTI and jung, where MBTI is four independant oppositions and jung is cognitive function interactions.

but if you define it that way, MBTI is a pretty crappy system.

Evidently this is the direction later versions of MBTI have taken.

I'm not a fan.

[alicia91]

Sorry to interrupt, but could someone please steer me to some info on this: (I'm new to this and don't understand what is meant by 'P and J functions are extroverted or introverted)? Thanks!

Urchin, you can't look at P/J on its own...that's the problem. P/J ONLY has to do with whether or not your perceiving and judging functions are extroverted or introverted.

[nightning]

Sorry to interrupt, but could someone please steer me to some info on this: (I'm new to this and don't understand what is meant by 'P and J functions are extroverted or introverted)? Thanks!

J and P by itself are neither extraverted nor introverted. But when you look in specific types, they influence whether your dominant function is extraverted or introverted. That's not very clear... I'll try examples.

e.g. If you're EP, your dominant function is a perceiving function. The P in MBTI indicates your preferred function when dealing with the external environment. (N/S for perceivers and T/F for judgers). So for extraverts, The P matches to your dominant function. However in the case of an introvert, IP... P is still indicating your prefer to use perceiving (N/S) in the external world... however because you're an introvert. Your dominant function is actually an introverted judging function. e.g. INTP -> Ti dominant. Looking at this in reverse... an IJ would actually have a dominant perceiving function even though they are technically Js. e.g. INTJ -> Ni dominant.

So "an extraverted J" (as in a person/judger) would be Te or Fe... dominant person, while "an introverted J" would be Ni or Si dominant. On the flip side, "an extraverted P" (preceiver) would be Ne or Se dominant and "an introverted P" would be Ti or Fi dominant.

[ptgatsby]

Sorry to interrupt, but could someone please steer me to some info on this: (I'm new to this and don't understand what is meant by 'P and J functions are extroverted or introverted)? Thanks!

At the core of MBTI theory, we all have 8 functions that make up (maybe not exclusively) our mind/cognition.

The two rational functions are T and F, and each have an inward (introverted) and outward (extroverted) direction to them. For example, Ti refers to the logical ordering of internal concepts (extremely rough paraphrasing!) and Te refers to the logical ordering of external concepts (ie: leadership, etc).

The two irrational functions are N and S and they also have an intorverted and extroverted version.

Rational functions are 'process' functions, or decision making functions. They aren't "rational" in the way we think of it - the definition is very specific. Irrational functions are about how we gather information to process. For example, Ne is geared towards seeing the big picture - pulling in tons of associated (and often unassociated) information. As an analogy, the forest when looking at a tree. Se, however, only pulls in the immediate information... a tree when looking at the forest. It can omit relevant ideas.


The big question is - what functions do you use? MBTI created a framework to determine which functions they use. The logic works like this;


1) Determine which rational and irrational functions you prefer (S or N, T or F).

2) Determine if you prefer an introverted or extraverted rational/irrational function (this is measured in P/J). If you prefer P, you prefer Introverted rational and extroverted irrational

3) Determine if your dominant function (rational or irrational) is introverted or extroverted (measured with E/I).

So, for example;

ISTP -> S + T functions preferred, P = Ti (introverted rational) + Se (extroverted irrational), I = Ti-Se (introverted function as dominant).

ENFJ -> N + F, J = Fe + Si, E = Fe-Si

[alicia91]

Oy - this all started when I was interested in which Harry Potter character I was most like!:ohmy: LOL It's complicated but I do understand what you are saying - thank you.

Sorry to sidetrack! Now back to Urchin.

[Evan]

The big question is - what functions do you use? MBTI created a framework to determine which functions they use. The logic works like this;


1) Determine which rational and irrational functions you prefer (S or N, T or F).

2) Determine if you prefer an introverted or extraverted rational/irrational function (this is measured in P/J). If you prefer P, you prefer Introverted rational and extroverted irrational

3) Determine if your dominant function (rational or irrational) is introverted or extroverted (measured with E/I).

So, for example;

ISTP -> S + T functions preferred, P = Ti (introverted rational) + Se (extroverted irrational), I = Ti-Se (introverted function as dominant).

ENFJ -> N + F, J = Fe + Si, E = Fe-Si


pretty much right, except you can't do 1 before you do 2.

it's really hard to compare (Fe + Fi) to (Te + Ti), and even if you did, the outcome isn't going to help you with type.

oh and i think you meant ESFJ in your second example