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neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 01:03 PM
I have a friend who is INTJ.

I think...

I've actually been going between whether or not he's INTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ, or ESTJ. For him to be an INTJ, his I would have to be very balanced and his N pretty weak. I really think he's an INTJ for some reason even though I can never be too sure.

That's Why You're Here! To Help Me!

:static:

YAY.


Some characteristics of my friend that lead me to believe he's NOT an INTJ:


likes to fit in
always cracking a joke so that he can fit in
appears more talkative than what I've heard of INTJs generally



Some characteristics that make me believe that he IS an INTJ:


most of his jokes are quite clever (I enjoy most of them)
many of his other jokes are insensitive (these are the ones I don't laugh at and I make sure to tell him why I didn't like that particular joke even though I usually get a :rolli: from him)
he's very efficient, and he's very critical
he doesn't realize that he's being critical. I sincerely think he means to help the person although most of the time his advice is unwarranted.
he makes a habit out of being insensitive, especially for the sake of a joke
he's absolutely brilliant (brilliance isn't type-related, but his is truly exceptional. ...I envy it :()
he tries to conceal the fact that he's brilliant. If I comment on how smart he is, he gets really shy and says something to the extent of "whatever. I'm no different from anyone else" when he clearly is <sigh>.
he's introverted only because I've seen his room. It looks like a cave set up solely for him to think, read, and do work. His "bed" is literally like a cot. Who knows if he actually sleeps on that thing? :laugh:
outside of classes he hardly ever goes anywhere.
he thinks he can take advantage of my kindness. I honestly think he sees it as a sign of weakness. He'll ask me to do something for him that he knows I won't do. I always reject him (nicely), but he keeps asking me like he doesn't care that I don't want to do it.
(this probably isn't type-related, but here goes anyway) he has (something that I think is often mistaken for) an anger problem. When someone touches his personal belongings, he freaks. Like full-blown hissy fit. The weird part, though, is that he's completely fine after a couple of hours. He starts talking to the person like nothing ever happened. Or whenever he disagrees with one of our professors (really any authority figure over him), he gets into this weird mood where he doesn't want to talk to anyone, and he paces back and forth so as to either calm himself or reason out in his head why he's right and the instructor/authority figure is wrong--scariest thing about him. Seriously.


I hope some of this helped you get a better picture of my friend. It's really difficult to tell since he is the only INTJ I know/ever met. If he is after all an INTJ.

...
Oh!
I should probably take this time to tell you that one of my very good friends is an INFJ, and he is, in no small exaggeration, obsessed with her. He's always complimenting her on how smart, beautiful, and perfect she is. I've silently gagged :sick: a few times during this overt display of verbal affection, but he keeps doing it like it's the most normal thing in this world. She hates it when he does it but is too nice to tell him because they were friends before he started doing this... thing. Personally, it makes me :laugh:, but I'd never tell her that.
Uh I'm not sure an INTJ would do this to someone he liked?


So tell me what you think of my frieeennnd!
:)

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:11 PM
He sounds SJ....


Does he like to chat about his ideas while he is creating them or waits until they are formed and then gives birth to them?

Litvyak
10-18-2009, 01:16 PM
Did you ever think about having more than friendship with this person? Just asking.
He strikes me as an INTP, but clearly I'm not the best typer around.


He sounds SJ....

Don't think so.

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 01:21 PM
Hm.
I pretty sure he waits until they're formed.
I don't each him as the type to talk about an idea before it's fully developed.

He's good (or better than I am rather) at giving a description on how something looks.
Once in a conversation he was describing one of his elaborate dreams to me. He made sure to outline to me every physical detail of the setting and overall plot of the dream, and when he got to the end I asked "So, what was the point? Did you figure out the meaning behind the dream?" And he just shrugged his shoulders and blew off my question.

Soooo... what does that mean?

Time
10-18-2009, 01:23 PM
Sounds a bit more like an ENTJ to me.

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:25 PM
Don't think so.

Ah the whole world thinks they are N types....

On the plus list... INTJ's I know don't tell jokes - or should I say their jokes are so unfunny they don't really classify.

Nor do they try to hide being bright, nor do they reall try to fit in or be overly talkative... INTJs I know are pretty reserved unless they are in company they know veyr well and are very relaxed.

on the negative list...ISJs rarely see how offensive an intollereant their views are (often in a pretty arogant fashion), they are megga critical (I had one that took 3 years to say thank you, those three years critisised professional people who were technical experts when they had very limited knowledge).

INTJ's almost always believe they are right and will go to great lengths to prove it.

But hey these are listed perceptions - just my take on them

Time
10-18-2009, 01:28 PM
^ Hey hey. I tell funny jokes. It's just nobody gets them.

ceecee
10-18-2009, 01:28 PM
How old is he?

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:29 PM
Hm.
I pretty sure he waits until they're formed.
I don't each him as the type to talk about an idea before it's fully developed.

He's good (or better than I am rather) at giving a description on how something looks.
Once in a conversation he was describing one of his elaborate dreams to me. He made sure to outline to me every physical detail of the setting and overall plot of the dream, and when he got to the end I asked "So, what was the point? Did you figure out the meaning behind the dream?" And he just shrugged his shoulders and blew off my question.

Soooo... what does that mean?

the first point is an I type... he thinks before he gets others invovled... Extroverts like to bound ideas around with people and can drivel nonsense into the eithers then just stop and select the best....

The dream discription sounds S typed (specally since he didn't try and analyse it)...

Difficult thing to do... I can pretty well type people reasonably accurately these days, the trip wire is to really nail N and S's.... but actually if you listen carefully to the language they use it becomes pretty obvious... talk really abstract concepts with them and see if they close it down real quick - is the ultimate N divide.

Good luck with it... they sound interesting for you if nothing else.

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:30 PM
^ Hey hey. I tell funny jokes. It's just nobody gets them.

I rest my case :D:D:D:D

Maths/physics/geek humour is generally not got by the masses, a true hall mark of INTJ :D

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 01:32 PM
Did you ever think about having more than friendship with this person? Just asking.
He strikes me as an INTP, but clearly I'm not the best typer around.



Don't think so.

Why would I have more of a friendship with him?
We have a friendship because that's all I want from him.
If I wanted something more, the relationship would have naturally moved in that direction. It never has and, trust me, it never will.

I have an INTP friend, too, (God, what are the odds?) and the two of them are starkly different, in my opinion. They don't always get along. I've seen the two of them clash and it's not pretty, but I can tell they have decent respect for each other. Also, I get along better (and I have a closer friendship) with the INTP. He's very... considerate and he listens to me. The INTJ?, on the other hand, can't really be bothered with my "theories." I hate to put it in these terms, but I'm just waiting for whatever usefulness I am to the INTJ? to run out, really :(.

Anyway, I honestly don't think he's INTP.
The INTP I know has a sweetness about them that isn't nearly as developed in this INTJ?.

Time
10-18-2009, 01:34 PM
I rest my case :D:D:D:D

Maths/physics/geek humour is generally not got by the masses, a true hall mark of INTJ :D Yea. Your all just a bunch of incomprehensible saps.

Litvyak
10-18-2009, 01:35 PM
INTJ's I know don't tell jokes - or should I say their jokes are so unfunny they don't really classify.

Please don't think of this as a personal attack, but that's one of the lamest stereotypes I've ever read on TypeC, and it generally pops up like 3-4 times a week. Some INTJs are funny, others aren't - they usually crack jokes around their friends and ignore relative strangers, but that's it.

He likes insensitive jokes, he thinks of kindness as a weakness, disagrees with authority figures, he doesn't realize he's critical etc. = NOT SJ.


Uh he's my friend because he is only a friend to me.
If I wanted something more, the relationship would have naturally moved in that direction. He never has and, trust me, it never will.


Okay... I was being curious, no need to get offensive.
I accept your arguments, he may not be an INTP after all (though they have many subtypes I hear).

Haight
10-18-2009, 01:35 PM
So INTJs can't be playful?

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:36 PM
Yea. Your all just a bunch of incomprehensible saps.

ha ha ha ha... I never said I didn't get the jokes, just the masses don't....

I went to a conference last week for analyst guys, the hight of the day was the opener who made an analyst joke...

The optimist sees the glass half full
The pessimist sees the glass half empty
The analyst wonders why the glass is 50% too big
:D te hgihlight of a vry dull day

Haphazard
10-18-2009, 01:37 PM
My dad and I communicate almost exclusively in jokes. We can't find much more common ground.

INTJs will tell jokes, they just won't tell them to people who they know won't get them (i. e., Tinkerbell).

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:39 PM
He likes insensitive jokes, he's brilliant, he thinks of kindness as a weakness, disagrees with authority figures, he doesn't realize he's critical etc. = NOT SJ.

At the top of the page the OP points out he doesn't get conceptual thinking - I doubt he is an N type at all.

SJ can be really bright, really intellegent and still S types...

But feel free to demostraight live - the whole I'm right thing

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:40 PM
So INTJs can't be playful?

never said that, but they tell BAD jokes....

I got spammed by my MSN recently, it came from an INTJ I know... it was full of smiles and warm language, and I knew it as pretty likely to not be from him (it wasn't it was some form of computer virus).

INTJs are playful in other ways... they themselves think their jokes are funny.... PLEASE don't inflict them on the world.... :D:D

Time
10-18-2009, 01:41 PM
ha ha ha ha... I never said I didn't get the jokes, just the masses don't....

I went to a conference last week for analyst guys, the hight of the day was the opener who made an analyst joke...

The optimist sees the glass half full
The pessimist sees the glass half empty
The analyst wonders why the glass is 50% too big
:D te hgihlight of a vry dull day That joke would certainly make my day.

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:42 PM
The INTJ?, on the other hand, can't really be bothered with my "theories." I hate to put it in these terms, but I'm just waiting for whatever usefulness I am to the INTJ? to run out, really :(.


Screams of S

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 01:42 PM
How old is he?

eighteen.



the first point is an I type... he thinks before he gets others invovled... Extroverts like to bound ideas around with people and can drivel nonsense into the eithers then just stop and select the best....

The dream discription sounds S typed (specally since he didn't try and analyse it)...

Difficult thing to do... I can pretty well type people reasonably accurately these days, the trip wire is to really nail N and S's.... but actually if you listen carefully to the language they use it becomes pretty obvious... talk really abstract concepts with them and see if they close it down real quick - is the ultimate N divide.

Yeah. I'm thinking SJ now, too.
The dream description would kind of obviously make him S, right?

Now that I think about he generally speaks in very exact and concrete terms and gets exasperated whenever I try to "explore" an idea. I've never really had this problem with my other SJ friends (that's probably because they're all SFJ), so maybe's he's a strong S then.
...I'm going to have to do some more observing.


Good luck with it... they sound interesting for you if nothing else.

Yeah. I hate to think of him as some sort of science experiment, but it is fun trying to figure out where his head is. :D

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:44 PM
That joke would certainly make my day.

EXACTLY - a room full of a normal population - and they would not think that was funny - just a lame opener....

Haight
10-18-2009, 01:45 PM
INTJs will tell jokes, they just won't tell them to people who they know won't get them (i. e., Tinkerbell).I'm constantly joking with people. And I don't care if they get the joke or not.

I think I do this because I entertain myself, and always have; I like to watch people try to figure things out - I think I do that as a way of judging their intelegence; and I use humor around other for purposes of control.


eighteen.Well at that stage of my life I rarely talked. All the jokes and playfulness stayed in my head.

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 01:46 PM
So INTJs can't be playful?

If they can't be playful, then there would be no need for this thread.

;)

Haphazard
10-18-2009, 01:47 PM
I got spammed by my MSN recently, it came from an INTJ I know... it was full of smiles and warm language, and I knew it as pretty likely to not be from him (it wasn't it was some form of computer virus).

INTJs are playful in other ways... they themselves think their jokes are funny.... PLEASE don't inflict them on the world.... :D:D

I'm a part of an online community that overuses smilies and is cuddly and generally very silly. No matter how silly and how cuddly and how many smilies I use I am always known as the 'srs bzns' one.

It doesn't have much to do with how much warm language or smilies an INTJ uses. There are some things you just can't hide.

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Yeah. I'm thinking SJ now, too.
The dream description would kind of obviously make him S, right?
Now that I think about he generally speaks in very exact and concrete terms and gets exasperated whenever I try to "explore" an idea. I've never really had this problem with my other SJ friends (that's probably because they're all SFJ), so maybe's he's a strong S then.
...I'm going to have to do some more observing.



Yeah. I hate to think of him as some sort of science experiment, but it is fun trying to figure out where his head is. :D

Yes it does sound like it to me that he is an S.... clearly we are going from what you have said... the language thing and the conceptual thing are ringers.... So many people ovr type N's (N are around 28% of the population in the UK - so less common).

Good luck and have fun.

and INTJ... I'm not trying to be offensive, I actually like INTJ humor so long as it's not too offensive, but it is a total give away as a typing thing.... LOL

Not sure what the oder of decent is for NT humour but you guys just aren't winners for joke telling.

Haphazard
10-18-2009, 01:48 PM
Yeah. I'm thinking SJ now, too.
The dream description would kind of obviously make him S, right?

If most people actually get his jokes, he's probably an ISTJ.

Haight
10-18-2009, 01:49 PM
If they can't be playful, then there would be no need for this thread.

;)Not really, because I think people confuse ISTJs with INTJs all the time.

In other words, I think ISTJs are the "robots." (No offense to that by the way, since I wish I was a robot.)

Haight
10-18-2009, 01:50 PM
If most people actually get his jokes, he's probably an ISTJ.That's absolutely correct.

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 01:50 PM
I'm a part of an online community that overuses smilies and is cuddly and generally very silly. No matter how silly and how cuddly and how many smilies I use I am always known as the 'srs bzns' one.

It doesn't have much to do with how much warm language or smilies an INTJ uses. There are some things you just can't hide.

OK this is a particuarlly stoic INTJ I was talking about (and I'm really interested him romantically right now)....

You can hug me to death, but I'll stand by my theory of yer jokes aint funny to the masses....

Kalach
10-18-2009, 01:53 PM
[...]disagrees with authority figures[...]

And freaks out about it. And is shy about being smart.

Not INTJ.

ISTJ.


ISTJ's are the playful ones. We're the dour smirkers.

There is no playful.

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 01:53 PM
Now that I think about he generally speaks in very exact and concrete terms and gets exasperated whenever I try to "explore" an idea. I've never really had this problem with my other SJ friends (that's probably because they're all SFJ), so maybe's he's a strong S then.

Er... I do kind of think of the most inopportune times to talk about my ideas. This can get in the way of efficiency, and if he were an INTJ it would annoy him that I was wasting time conceptualizing instead working (!)

INTJs please correct me if I'm wrong.

Time
10-18-2009, 01:54 PM
EXACTLY - a room full of a normal population - and they would not think that was funny - just a lame opener.... As I said. Those people can't comprehend a funny joke. They are the ones at fault.


Not really, because I think people confuse ISTJs with INTJs all the time.

In other words, I think ISTJs are the "robots." (No offense to that by the way, since I wish I was a robot.) I came up with the same term for ISTJs. I look at them as a bunch of robots who do everything with perfection.

Haphazard
10-18-2009, 01:56 PM
OK this is a particuarlly stoic INTJ I was talking about (and I'm really interested him romantically right now)....

You can hug me to death, but I'll stand by my theory of yer jokes aint funny to the masses....

You can't go by INTJs by one sample. I'm just saying that an INTJ's 'srs bzns'-ness just doesn't go away.

We know they're not funny to the masses, that's why we naturally gravitate towards our audience.

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 01:57 PM
...
<reading other posts that I missed>
...

Yeeeah.
Pretty sure at this point the guy's an ISTJ.

Haight
10-18-2009, 02:03 PM
I came up with the same term for ISTJs. I look at them as a bunch of robots who do everything with perfection.And because society tells them to - lovers of rules, etc.

It's sort of a heard mentality. And that makes sense when you think about it because most people around them are doing the same thing thus reinforcing the mentality.

Time
10-18-2009, 02:07 PM
Helps that the ISTJs are the highest in numbers compared to all other types.

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 02:24 PM
You can't go by INTJs by one sample. I'm just saying that an INTJ's 'srs bzns'-ness just doesn't go away.

We know they're not funny to the masses, that's why we naturally gravitate towards our audience.

wasn't basing my opinions on a samples size of one... just using ones person to illustrate.... I have two intj bros (out of 9), my father, two best friends and 2 at work in a dominant NT team... and that just in the present...

Another example, a foul girl came home to visit within one of my bros... she was being really nasty to one of my INTJ bros... which eventaully just asked her "how do you manage to mastribate with fingernails that length?" which shut her up, was very funny but also exceptionately offensive....

Haight
10-18-2009, 02:33 PM
Helps that the ISTJs are the highest in numbers compared to all other types.Exactly. And that's most of the reason.

Matthew_Z
10-18-2009, 03:07 PM
I was going to suggest INTP based on how I can relate to roughly 70% of the initial description.

Haight
10-18-2009, 03:12 PM
I was going to suggest INTP based on how I can relate to roughly 70% of the initial description.That would be my guess as well. Or eNTP.

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 04:00 PM
I was going to suggest INTP based on how I can relate to roughly 70% of the initial description.

What parts could you relate to?

Matthew_Z
10-18-2009, 04:16 PM
What parts could you relate to?
Everything Bolded. Strikeout is no relation. Everything else I can relate to on some sense, but not necessarily as you have described. Slight commentary attached.



Some characteristics of my friend that lead me to believe he's NOT an INTJ:


likes to fit in
always cracking a joke so that he can fit in (I use humor because it keeps my stress level down, not to fit in.)



Some characteristics that make me believe that he IS an INTJ:


most of his jokes are quite clever (I enjoy most of them) (or so I like to think)
many of his other jokes are insensitive (these are the ones I don't laugh at and I make sure to tell him why I didn't like that particular joke even though I usually get a :rolli: from him)
he's very efficient, and he's very critical (I can follow both of those somewhat)
he doesn't realize that he's being critical. I sincerely think he means to help the person although most of the time his advice is unwarranted. (I've gotten this one a lot of in life. However, I think I realize it most of the time now.)
he makes a habit out of being insensitive, especially for the sake of a joke (Meh, sometimes)
If I comment on how smart he is, he gets really shy and says something to the extent of "whatever. I'm no different from anyone else" when he clearly is <sigh>. (usually)
he's introverted only because I've seen his room. It looks like a cave set up solely for him to think, read, and do work. His "bed" is literally like a cot. Who knows if he actually sleeps on that thing? :laugh: (I use my bed for storage space and sleep on the floor, honestly.)
outside of classes he hardly ever goes anywhere. (why leave when you have the internet?)
he thinks he can take advantage of my kindness. I honestly think he sees it as a sign of weakness. He'll ask me to do something for him that he knows I won't do. I always reject him (nicely), but he keeps asking me like he doesn't care that I don't want to do it. (I may test it, but not for the purposes of taking advantage of.)
(this probably isn't type-related, but here goes anyway) he has (something that I think is often mistaken for) an anger problem. When someone touches his personal belongings, he freaks. Like full-blown hissy fit. The weird part, though, is that he's completely fine after a couple of hours. He starts talking to the person like nothing ever happened. (Hissy fit only applies when people go through my stuff without being granted permission.)

Or whenever he disagrees with one of our professors (really any authority figure over him), he gets into this weird mood where he doesn't want to talk to anyone, and he paces back and forth so as to either calm himself or reason out in his head why he's right and the instructor/authority figure is wrong--scariest thing about him. Seriously. (I may be figuring out how to prove my case, but that doesn't end up with me alienating everyone I know. As a general rule, I also don't focus on me being "right" and the other person "wrong" as much as I focus on there being some ground for compromise, such as the "authority figure" having a good idea, but executed poorly.)

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 04:31 PM
Everything Bolded. Strikeout is no relation. Everything else I can relate to on some sense, but not necessarily as you have described. Slight commentary attached.

Isn't everything you bolded typically what NTs and STJs have in common?
As far as I can see, you agreed with everything up to a point.
I was having more of a problem distinguishing between whether he was N or S.

The fitting-in part is kind of essential. He wants people to like him.
I think because he's a little on the strange side I thought he might be N (you have to admit we all are), but he could just be a good ol' ISTJ (s.a.r.c.a.s.m.)


Another Thing:
I, too, get really upset when my things are touched without someone getting permission to touch them, but he gets furious if you touch his things even after he has deliberately taken something from you (in jest, probably). It's kind of childish, really. It may just be an individual quirk.

Economica
10-18-2009, 04:49 PM
he tries to conceal the fact that he's brilliant. If I comment on how smart he is, he gets really shy and says something to the extent of "whatever. I'm no different from anyone else" when he clearly is <sigh>.

(...)


Or whenever he disagrees with one of our professors (really any authority figure over him), he gets into this weird mood where he doesn't want to talk to anyone, and he paces back and forth so as to either calm himself or reason out in his head why he's right and the instructor/authority figure is wrong--scariest thing about him. Seriously.


(...) one of my very good friends is an INFJ, and he is, in no small exaggeration, obsessed with her. He's always complimenting her on how smart, beautiful, and perfect she is.

All of the above are strikes against INTJ IMO. For the first two I'd go with INTP instead; they're the ones who are diffident about their intelligence and who can get worked up on account of new input that seemingly contradicts their worldview and need to spend hours reasoning out (using Ti) how their worldview could still be right (whereas Ni either just blocks out the input or rationalizes it with lightning speed). I'm not sure whether an INTP could be responsible for the excessive and unwelcome compliments, but I can say that it doesn't sound like any of the manifestations of INTJ attempted romancing that I've witnessed.

Edit: Oh, and the jokes speak for INTP over INTJ as well. We can be light-hearted, but we just don't have the ingenuity to crack (funny!) jokes all the time.

Second edit:


Now that I think about he generally speaks in very exact and concrete terms and gets exasperated whenever I try to "explore" an idea. I've never really had this problem with my other SJ friends (that's probably because they're all SFJ), so maybe's he's a strong S then.

Precision of language is very INTP. (What do you mean by concrete terms?) The exasperation could be Ti disinterest in, if not disrespect for, an incompatible approach to idea exploration.

Third edit! neptunesnet, how do you reconcile your belief that he wants to fit in with the insensitive jokes and criticism you describe?

jenocyde
10-18-2009, 05:09 PM
I know a lot of warm and funny INTJs. Edgar, for one, is not at all what you might expect. He's a real sweetheart with a great sense of humor in person. (sorry for blowing up your spot, Edgar)

Also, a lot of NJs get irritated with NPs and our theories. Annoyance at our need to drag things on and on can come from anyone, not just SJs.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. If he's a nice guy, that's his type.

Litvyak
10-18-2009, 06:01 PM
But feel free to demostraight live - the whole I'm right thing

Wow. It seems not only INTJs are humorless after all ;)
Feel free to think that disagreeing with authority figures is a typical SJ trait, whatever.


ISTJ's are the playful ones.

LOL


And freaks out about it.

It comes off to me as perseverness and self-certification.

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 06:13 PM
Wow. It seems not only INTJs are humorless after all ;)
Feel free to think that disagreeing with authority figures is a typical SJ trait, whatever.

.

I'm not saying it's all SJ, just on balance with the data he sounds like an SJ... It's really easy as a N to see others as an N.......

Scores for the UK were from a telephone omnibus, similar enough to web profile data (although on web it gives 10% as NT)
Chance of being SJ = UK 56%, ISTJ = 11%
Chance of being NT = UK 5%, INTJ = 1%

So fairly big chance of mis atributation....

Lis

neptunesnet
10-18-2009, 07:01 PM
Third edit! neptunesnet, how do you reconcile your belief that he wants to fit in with the insensitive jokes and criticism you describe?

Well, his criticism is supposed to be constructive, but it comes off as condescending and imposing to others. Also, the way I see it is if I have something funny to say that I know will offend someone I'll keep it to myself and probaby smirk to myself, but he makes a big show of it. Everyone must hear it and enjoy it. Oh, and God forbid if someone gets upset that he just trivialized the Holocaust in one of his witticisms. What he does is not the ENTP light-hearted way of joking nor is it the INTP one-liner type thing either. There's a certain crudeness to it that's pretty distasteful.

The problem with him is he's always trying to get a laugh. I couldn't imagine why else but to fit in that he'd want to joke about Jews with other eighteen year old boys? Appprently, that's in vogue now. Sometimes, I just want to grab his collar and ask, "Can't you be serious about ANYTHING?" Yet, he still manages to be focused on getting things done and efficiency. It's hard to explain, but I'm really trying my best to illustrate it here.


@jenocyde

I'm hesitant to say that he's a "nice" guy, but I consider him a friend and I want to understand him better. There are people who really don't like him and avoid him, but I've known him for years. I can't just blow him off. He does have his good traits.


Oh! Might I add for the record, too, that he has a tendency to be very aggressive/touchy feely with girls. Asking for hugs and finding ways to touch us and stuff. It's kinda strange and turns off some girls that we know.
I mean, I know he's young, but really, man?

JustHer
10-18-2009, 07:02 PM
INTJs are playful! In their own awkward special little way.

Economica
10-18-2009, 07:09 PM
Okay, what you describe there sounds more INTJ, but with regard to his humor, didn't you say in the OP that you find most of his jokes to be quite clever and enjoyable? :huh:

Edit: Has anyone asked yet whether you have considered asking him what type he is? :D

poppy
10-18-2009, 08:36 PM
Yeah. I'm thinking SJ now, too.
The dream description would kind of obviously make him S, right?
No.

:D

INTJs can be descriptive. Some of us are rather artsy even, and willing to recreate our internal vistas of colorful perception for you. In fact it would be very strange for an ISTJ to describe a dream to you, in my experience. My best friend is one, and I'm pretty sure she's never told me a single dream she had.



Now that I think about he generally speaks in very exact and concrete terms and gets exasperated whenever I try to "explore" an idea. I've never really had this problem with my other SJ friends (that's probably because they're all SFJ), so maybe's he's a strong S then.
...I'm going to have to do some more observing.


I may be biased, but I'd just like to say that I sometimes have issues with the way that NFs explore ideas. I mean, don't get me wrong, I lub you guys to death, but I will never forget the time my INFP friend asked me if I thought that flowers wondered whether or not they're beautiful.


Er... I do kind of think of the most inopportune times to talk about my ideas. This can get in the way of efficiency, and if he were an INTJ it would annoy him that I was wasting time conceptualizing instead working (!)

INTJs please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are quite correct :)


But anyway, I just wanted to stop by and mention those points, since I feel like it would be rather faulty to type someone based on them.

tinkerbell
10-18-2009, 08:53 PM
No.

:D

INTJs can be descriptive. Some of us are rather artsy even, and willing to recreate our internal vistas of colorful perception for you. In fact it would be very strange for an ISTJ to describe a dream to you, in my experience. My best friend is one, and I'm pretty sure she's never told me a single dream she had.
.

the whole point is that this person couldn't describe the dream.... hence evidence of abstract thought/language ...

I just don't get why we don't just get him to do the test.. :D

Cranky
10-18-2009, 09:12 PM
On the plus list... INTJ's I know don't tell jokes - or should I say their jokes are so unfunny they don't really classify.

Nor do they try to hide being bright, nor do they reall try to fit in or be overly talkative... INTJs I know are pretty reserved unless they are in company they know veyr well and are very relaxed.


My jokes are always funny to at least one person.

And the reserved thing is true, unless I'm at a bar. Parties aren't really all that fun for me.

Jaguar
10-18-2009, 09:57 PM
^ Hey hey. I tell funny jokes. It's just nobody gets them.


Somehow I don't think I would have a problem getting your jokes. Lol.

ThatGirl
10-18-2009, 10:47 PM
I have a friend who is INTJ.

I think...

I've actually been going between whether or not he's INTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ, or ESTJ. For him to be an INTJ, his I would have to be very balanced and his N pretty weak. I really think he's an INTJ for some reason even though I can never be too sure.

That's Why You're Here! To Help Me!

:static:

YAY.


Some characteristics of my friend that lead me to believe he's NOT an INTJ:


likes to fit in
always cracking a joke so that he can fit in
appears more talkative than what I've heard of INTJs generally



Some characteristics that make me believe that he IS an INTJ:


most of his jokes are quite clever (I enjoy most of them)
many of his other jokes are insensitive (these are the ones I don't laugh at and I make sure to tell him why I didn't like that particular joke even though I usually get a :rolli: from him)
he's very efficient, and he's very critical
he doesn't realize that he's being critical. I sincerely think he means to help the person although most of the time his advice is unwarranted.
he makes a habit out of being insensitive, especially for the sake of a joke
he's absolutely brilliant (brilliance isn't type-related, but his is truly exceptional. ...I envy it :()
he tries to conceal the fact that he's brilliant. If I comment on how smart he is, he gets really shy and says something to the extent of "whatever. I'm no different from anyone else" when he clearly is <sigh>.
he's introverted only because I've seen his room. It looks like a cave set up solely for him to think, read, and do work. His "bed" is literally like a cot. Who knows if he actually sleeps on that thing? :laugh:
outside of classes he hardly ever goes anywhere.
he thinks he can take advantage of my kindness. I honestly think he sees it as a sign of weakness. He'll ask me to do something for him that he knows I won't do. I always reject him (nicely), but he keeps asking me like he doesn't care that I don't want to do it.
(this probably isn't type-related, but here goes anyway) he has (something that I think is often mistaken for) an anger problem. When someone touches his personal belongings, he freaks. Like full-blown hissy fit. The weird part, though, is that he's completely fine after a couple of hours. He starts talking to the person like nothing ever happened. Or whenever he disagrees with one of our professors (really any authority figure over him), he gets into this weird mood where he doesn't want to talk to anyone, and he paces back and forth so as to either calm himself or reason out in his head why he's right and the instructor/authority figure is wrong--scariest thing about him. Seriously.


I hope some of this helped you get a better picture of my friend. It's really difficult to tell since he is the only INTJ I know/ever met. If he is after all an INTJ.

...
Oh!
I should probably take this time to tell you that one of my very good friends is an INFJ, and he is, in no small exaggeration, obsessed with her. He's always complimenting her on how smart, beautiful, and perfect she is. I've silently gagged :sick: a few times during this overt display of verbal affection, but he keeps doing it like it's the most normal thing in this world. She hates it when he does it but is too nice to tell him because they were friends before he started doing this... thing. Personally, it makes me :laugh:, but I'd never tell her that.
Uh I'm not sure an INTJ would do this to someone he liked?


So tell me what you think of my frieeennnd!
:)


Sounded freakishly like myself.

Misty_Mountain_Rose
10-19-2009, 12:56 AM
I would like to add to this thread that I'm an INTJ, and very difficult to type because I happen to be a 4w5 INTJ. I do nutty things, I make a scene and act like an idiot sometimes. I'm called playful, silly and sometimes evil depending on what I'm getting into. I've even been seen as an airhead because my drive to 'be remembered' sometimes overtakes the serious minded half of me. I've never been afraid to be playful and funny. I was a class clown when I was a child... and in some ways I may have never outgrown it. I HAVE at least become more aware of why I'm acting that way and can tone it down sometimes, but its always there.

Just sayin' :newwink:

neptunesnet
10-19-2009, 01:17 AM
Okay, what you describe there sounds more INTJ, but with regard to his humor, didn't you say in the OP that you find most of his jokes to be quite clever and enjoyable? :huh:

Edit: Has anyone asked yet whether you have considered asking him what type he is? :D


Argh! IalreadysaidthatIthinkhisjokesarefunnymostofthetim e!
NOT when they're insensitive.
He's usually very punny.
I like puns.
We're a match made in pun heaven.
But he also tells insensitive jokes. Typically when we're around other people. I don't like those onesonesonesones.

Got it?

I know he doesn't know anything about typology because I've already asked him and gave the "hey! you should look into it" advice. He never did.


INTJs can be descriptive. Some of us are rather artsy even, and willing to recreate our internal vistas of colorful perception for you. In fact it would be very strange for an ISTJ to describe a dream to you, in my experience. My best friend is one, and I'm pretty sure she's never told me a single dream she had.

Okay.
I know.
But the point was he focused more on how everything looked as opposed to what everything meant. But yeah. I don't think an ISTJ would talk about his dreams either.



I may be biased, but I'd just like to say that I sometimes have issues with the way that NFs explore ideas. I mean, don't get me wrong, I lub you guys to death, but I will never forget the time my INFP friend asked me if I thought that flowers wondered whether or not they're beautiful.

Yep.
I get the impression that he thinks I'm ridiculous.
Like anything I suggest is for goofy people who feel too much, and my idealism to him is.. well, stupid :rolli:. Which is weird that I get that from him since he adores the INFJ I was talking about earlier in the OP who is much more open about her idealism than I am. Anyway, I'll give an example to better illustrate what goes down between us.
A couple years ago, I was at the library reading, and he texted me and asked what I was doing. I told him I was in the library reading. He then asked what I was reading, and I told him Achebe's Things Fall Apart. Turns out he'd "heard about that book" and went on a tangent via text (weird, I know) about how overrated the story is. According to him, though it was "acclaimed for its archetypal/universal portayal of man" (or something to that effect) it is purely regional and thus has no relevance in broad literature courses.
I was like, "Well, dang. Did you actually read/study the book?"
And his response?
"Uh no, but--"
And that was alllllll I needed to know. :) It annoyed the heck! out of me. He always seems either to have mislead opinions on trivial things or no opinion at all on anything political/global/big picture stuff because he "might actually start to care." Yep. He said that. wtf?



the whole point is that this person couldn't describe the dream.... hence evidence of abstract thought/language ...

I just don't get why we don't just get him to do the test.. :D

Uh actually he could describe the dream. He just didn't want to explore why he had it or what the meaning of the dream was.

I'm not going to make someone take a test they think is "silly."

neptunesnet
10-19-2009, 01:20 AM
Sounded freakishly like myself.

:laugh:
I love how you called yourself "absolutely brilliant."
Aye, it takes guts. :yes:

poppy
10-19-2009, 02:02 AM
Yep.
I get the impression that he thinks I'm ridiculous.
Like anything I suggest is for goofy people who feel too much, and my idealism to him is.. well, stupid :rolli:. Which is weird that I get that from him since he adores the INFJ I was talking about earlier in the OP who is much more open about her idealism than I am. Anyway, I'll give an example to better illustrate what goes down between us.
A couple years ago, I was at the library reading, and he texted me and asked what I was doing. I told him I was in the library reading. He then asked what I was reading, and I told him Achebe's Things Fall Apart. Turns out he'd "heard about that book" and went on a tangent via text (weird, I know) about how overrated the story is. According to him, though it was "acclaimed for its archetypal/universal portayal of man" (or something to that effect) it is purely regional and thus has no relevance in broad literature courses.
I was like, "Well, dang. Did you actually read/study the book?"
And his response?
"Uh no, but--"
And that was alllllll I needed to know. :) It annoyed the heck! out of me. He always seems either to have mislead opinions on trivial things or no opinion at all on anything political/global/big picture stuff because he "might actually start to care." Yep. He said that. wtf?


Lol. Sounds like an ENTJ to me :D

SWINTJ
11-06-2009, 03:26 AM
This thread has been dead a little while but, the humor description I kept seeing started to grate.

If I made a joke someone claimed was offensive, that person from that day forward would be considered annoying and though my joking ranges greatly, every joke I'd make within an ear shot of that person would be something I'm quite sure they won't like. Even if that "offensive" joke isn't a common type by me, out of spite towards oversensitive people, I'd make exceptions.

And you're right, you wouldn't find them funny and it wouldn't just be because of the "type" of joke it is. I wouldn't be the person delivering the punchline. It's your reaction that would be the punchline.

I would let it go on until you finally figured it out for yourself. I would also hope, at that time, that you would start avoiding me or not want to talk to me. I can't stand being in the company of whiners. Especially ones who can say they recognize something as a joke yet at the same time can take offense to it. That's like saying "I know that no offense was intended, but I'm going to make drama anyways because I'm a self-righteous tool who feeds off of playing the victim." It's people like that, that cause me to wish for natural selection to make a comeback for the good of humanity itself.

No offense!

Argus
11-06-2009, 03:53 AM
The OP sounds like an INTJ ex-coworker of mine...

Litvyak
11-06-2009, 10:37 AM
Achebe is overrated. NTJ.

the state i am in
11-06-2009, 08:35 PM
intjs can be very funny. they are generally very dry bc their jokes are based on forms, relationships, and structures.

most of my intjs are well-versed in comedy, they know what is out there, have internalized it, and stretched it to fit their personalities. think tina fey. think demetri martin (intj or infj). Ni re-frames similar material into a kaleidocope of absurdity.

istjs rely on puns and up-your-ass crassness. they don't have the same shiftiness, the same subtlety, the same dryness. i find istjs fun to joke with in person, at times, but their standup routines bore the fuck out of me. intjs can be extremely clever, scheming, and well-developed when they want to be funny. that there are many completely anti-social/sociopathic intxs doesn't preclude them from having the capability to be funny. 6s and 5s are probably the most funny to me.

istj vs intj would be focus on Si vs Ni. intjs are more in love with sensory difference (Se) than istjs, who are more it is what it is. altho for injs this comes out less obviously especially at 18, bc it is an inferior function. Si and Ni will both, when used with Te, be hierarchically organized and built upon information relevant to objective goals and sub-goals. but Ni will be much more organic, constantly scanning the mind for relationships and patterns and possibilities and potential structures and motifs, whereas Si will be soooo concrete and object-oriented. both are rather visual, it seems to me. intjs will pick up on your patterns quicker and will generally be much more interested in challenging your perceptions, whereas istjs will focus on a more concrete game poking at you.

neptunesnet
11-20-2009, 10:46 PM
UPDATE:

I've concluded that my friend is, in fact, an ENTJ.

Since I've started this thread, I've been reading up on ENTJ behavior on TypoC (i.e, Discobiscuit's "Child and Caveman" Theory) and been treating him as such. The results have been phenomenal.

Instead of mirroring him and using my Ti to try to connect (like NT to NT), I use my F now. I'll ask him about an idea he's been talking about or relate to a story he's told from a different angle, and he's much more receptive now in our conversations. His eyes even start to sparkle a bit. I think it's sweet. I haven't seen this side of him in a while, actually, and I'm beginning to remember how we became friends in the first place.

The other day, for example, we were having a conversation about performing on a stage (He's a cellist and I'm a violinist). The conversation veered into how I differ from another one of our friends (an EFSJ; also a violinist) in playing style. I told him that I'm not a performer because I don't enjoy playing for other people but that I enjoy playing for myself, and he agreed. He then went on to tell me that though he himself is not a great cellist and doesn't naturally play from his heart (he didn't use those exact words; I'm translating into NF language :D), he can appreciate that, similar to the way that I am not a brainaic academically but can deeply appreciate intellectualism.

So, yeah. The friend is an EnTJ with strong TJ I'm thinking.


Commentary:


Achebe is overrated. NTJ.

Yeah well so are engineering programs and a sudden influx of math and science courses in the US educational system, but you don't see me ranting like an imbecile about how much more scholarship money is out there for engineering majors than, say, philosophy or theology majors, do you?

The issue isn't whether or not my friend is "right" in his opinion.
It's a matter of respect. Respect for me and my opinions as his friend.
Furthermore, he has a bias towards something for absolutely no reason. That's illogical. It's not as if he actually studied that piece of literature or anything.


This thread has been dead a little while but, the humor description I kept seeing started to grate.

If I made a joke someone claimed was offensive, that person from that day forward would be considered annoying and though my joking ranges greatly, every joke I'd make within an ear shot of that person would be something I'm quite sure they won't like. Even if that "offensive" joke isn't a common type by me, out of spite towards oversensitive people, I'd make exceptions.

So, what exactly are you saying?
No one anywhere ever should claim that one of your jokes is offensive because you said it wasn't?

I don't think it works that way.


And you're right, you wouldn't find them funny and it wouldn't just be because of the "type" of joke it is. I wouldn't be the person delivering the punchline. It's your reaction that would be the punchline.

I would let it go on until you finally figured it out for yourself. I would also hope, at that time, that you would start avoiding me or not want to talk to me. I can't stand being in the company of whiners. Especially ones who can say they recognize something as a joke yet at the same time can take offense to it. That's like saying "I know that no offense was intended, but I'm going to make drama anyways because I'm a self-righteous tool who feeds off of playing the victim." It's people like that, that cause me to wish for natural selection to make a comeback for the good of humanity itself.


Hm.
I'm hoping all of that was a general "you."

My friend is emotionally immature. Whenever he's angry or genuinely happy or panicked, it's frightening. The usually controlled and logical Andrew I know turns into a flustered mess.

Litvyak
11-21-2009, 12:35 AM
Yeah well so are engineering programs and a sudden influx of math and science courses in the US educational system, but you don't see me ranting like an imbecile about how much more scholarship money is out there for engineering majors than, say, philosophy or theology majors, do you?

Err... I was joking? Next time I say something like that, I'm gonna add ;):D:cheese::newwink::devil::happy2::smoke: just to make myself clear.

neptunesnet
11-21-2009, 03:28 AM
Err... I was joking? Next time I say something like that, I'm gonna add ;):D:cheese::newwink::devil::happy2::smoke: just to make myself clear.

:blush:

Sorry.

I'm just so used to people giving me the appeal-to-authority, "your opinion is stupid simply because I said so" excuse. It gets frustrating after a while.

Plus, your comment can only be read not seen, so I didn't get a chance to see your I'm-joking face.


And for next time, you only have to add an ;) to make yourself more clear.

Sabre
06-28-2010, 01:15 AM
I have a friend who is INTJ.

Some characteristics of my friend that lead me to believe he's NOT an INTJ:


likes to fit in
always cracking a joke so that he can fit in
appears more talkative than what I've heard of INTJs generally



I like to fit in (if I like those people)

Sometimes I crack a joke because I'm sure it will be good at that time so why would I do something that I can?

I talk a lot, I may get people interested or bored and annoyed, but I never chitchat and I hate that. But I don't like being in a group of people I don't know very well.

Its a strategy for socializing I guess.

twinkiesmom
09-05-2010, 01:37 PM
After reading the whole thread, I'm convinced this guy is ESTP.

He likes hugging people....definitely not INTJ and probably not ENTJ.

He seeks attention, but his jokes are insensitive...ESTPs are notorious for sharp-tongued biting comments.

You mentioned him being interested in multiple girls...INTJs and SJs tend toward monogamy.

tawanda
09-05-2010, 02:55 PM
After reading the whole thread, I'm convinced this guy is ESTP.

He likes hugging people....definitely not INTJ and probably not ENTJ.

He seeks attention, but his jokes are insensitive...ESTPs are notorious for sharp-tongued biting comments.

You mentioned him being interested in multiple girls...INTJs and SJs tend toward monogamy.

Anyone can be interested in multitudes of people for a relationship, or just a fling, and any type can tell a witty joke.

Plus, hugs aren't prohibited from INTJs. :hug:

:dry:

freeeekyyy
09-05-2010, 04:57 PM
He likes insensitive jokes, he thinks of kindness as a weakness, disagrees with authority figures, he doesn't realize he's critical etc. = NOT SJ..

No, all of those traits are really more TJ in general. STJs can be very "insensitive" and I have met plenty who were just as distrustful of authority figures as any INTJ. You've way oversimplified the matter here.

twinkiesmom
09-05-2010, 06:21 PM
Anyone can be interested in multitudes of people for a relationship, or just a fling, and any type can tell a witty joke.

Plus, hugs aren't prohibited from INTJs. :hug:

:dry:

Agree with you that this could be any type. I don't see anything in the original post that would exclude a common ST.

But disagree with you on the hugging thing...INTJs are not indiscriminate huggers.

animenagai
09-06-2010, 01:18 AM
neptunesnet, why do you think he's an E? What happened to always staying at home? :/

Rex
09-07-2010, 06:48 PM
"how do you manage to mastribate with fingernails that length?" which shut her up, was very funny but also exceptionately offensive....



haha! best one for me today!

neptunesnet
09-07-2010, 07:06 PM
Wow, dudes. This is a pretty old thread of mine.


neptunesnet, why do you think he's an E? What happened to always staying at home? :/

Forget the staying at home thing.

He seems much more TeNi than NiTe. His Fi is inferior as it baffles him, but he certainly understands TeFi rationale. Also, he's much more preoccupied by what's efficient than by how things are connected, or how a situation/point of view can be interpreted differently (and yes, he has the capacity to do it, just gets stuck in dominant Te).

And as much as I hate to say it, I think he's more likable when he channels his aux-Ni. It's hard to explain other than it has a really nice calming effect on him, which softens his actions & how he expresses himself. As he matures, I see him navigating & trying to understand that more, which is good.

As of right now, I still think he's ENTJ. I'd add 8w7 sx/so to it. But, the possibility of his being INTJ 8w7 sx/so is just as valid, I suppose. It's hard to say definitively since I haven't seen him in a while.

YWIR
09-07-2010, 10:46 PM
my INTJ friend is more playful than I am, I actually get exhausted sometimes from his playing around :laugh:

Avik
08-09-2012, 03:47 AM
I personally think you are a victim of belief in stereotypes. It is impossible for all INTJs to conform to the standards of an INTJ personality. Agreeably, an INTJ is LIKELY to behave in a way that the general INTJ assessments suggest, but each one is vastly different. I, for example, rarely crack jokes, and when I do, it has something to do with the subjects I'm studying. I do have an anger issue, but not with my belongings being touched by other people.
To further strengthen my point, let me give you the example of the only other INTJ whom I personally know. To say we don't get along, is an understatement. We have a lot in common- our beliefs, our habits, so on and so forth. However, there are certain factors I dislike in him. For one thing, he's a raging pervert, while my sexual drive is fairly under control. It's one, completely acceptable thing to have a fantasy, but a different thing to attempt to play it out on 'friends'. The other thing is that he's too quick to judge. I myself, judge, but only after having gone through all facts and data available, with a fine toothed comb. He, on the other hand, judges on the basis of first impressions.
So, to get back to the topic, you ought to try and learn about your friend, and accept him as he is, as opposed to expecting him to turn out the way that is suggested by the INTJ assessments.

Trunks
08-09-2012, 09:14 AM
I'm a playful/serious INTJ, sometimes I think I'm a jinx in every places I go. I think I'm a trickster but it always unintended..

Avik
08-09-2012, 01:34 PM
I'm a playful/serious INTJ, sometimes I think I'm a jinx in every places I go. I think I'm a trickster but it always unintended..

Why would you be a jinx?

WhoCares
08-10-2012, 08:10 AM
Why would you be a jinx?

Possibly the singular ability to shutdown conversation, bring joviality to a halt and make others feel uncomfortable with your mere presence. Just guessing. For most of my life I thought I had anti-charisma because I did not understand other peoples reactions to me. I felt cursed.

Avik
08-11-2012, 12:59 AM
Possibly the singular ability to shutdown conversation, bring joviality to a halt and make others feel uncomfortable with your mere presence. Just guessing. For most of my life I thought I had anti-charisma because I did not understand other peoples reactions to me. I felt cursed.

Ah. Then I'm in the same boat. I'm a year and a half out of high school, which for me, was taxing- attempting to make conversation, etc etc.

acronach
08-11-2012, 01:42 PM
Sounds a bit more like an ENTJ to me.

agreement

look.sky.ward
02-06-2014, 10:59 PM
Possibly the singular ability to shutdown conversation, bring joviality to a halt and make others feel uncomfortable with your mere presence. Just guessing. For most of my life I thought I had anti-charisma because I did not understand other peoples reactions to me. I felt cursed.

Ha! I know the feels.