INFP's bring out the ISTJ side in me

[Synthetic Darkness]

I've just begun to organize this student organization at my school along with about 3 of my schoolmates we feel as though the clubs in our school have lost their focus on what their really about and instead are filled with grade grubbers who only join the clubs so they can have something to put onto their university applications.

Now the hardest part with organizing this is that we have to get it approved for the 2009/10 school year and as someone who really is horrid at organization I'm surprised and astonished with one of my co-organizers she cannot keep focus, she's far too dreamy, cannot grasp that we need to have a solid foundation before we can go off and start planning other things, she's very into flowery speeches and although that's what I find most charming about her and that is why I wanted her to be one of the people working with me on this project and although I am often the person who focuses on the big picture and not the little things I am beginning to resent the role she is putting me in. I'm now forced to focus on the details, I'm now the one who has to be professional, slightly sarcastic and mean (mean in the way that I have to keep shooting down some of her more ridiculous ideas) and I don't like it.

I appreciate everything she's trying to do (ok not really...) but I would appreciate a more professional attitude. My mind is filled with endless possibilities, I go to sleep at night just dreaming about how amazing this project could be, however I realize that I need to start small before my more extravagant ideas could come to life.

Basically what I'm trying to say (or rather rant...) is that maybe I made a mistake with choosing an INFP to help me organize... the other people are both an ENFJ and an ISFP, the ENFJ keeps getting offtopic whenever the INFP does and the ISFP is just too timid to say anything. Maybe I should recruit a friend of mine who is an ENTJ...but then I'm afraid she'd take over....

I want this project to be successful, I've been in tons of projects that were similar to this however I made the same mistake as the INFP is doing now, and I refuse to have her destroy my dreams (well...that was overdramatic :D)

[onemoretime]

Take her out to lunch one day, and start waxing poetic about big dreams and the things that inspire you about this project. Engage her intuitive side, showing her the process by which when everything works, wonderful things happen. Make sure she knows that you and she share a very similar way of looking at things.

Once that's done, say kindly, but very matter of factly, "so-and-so, I want to be broad and open and constantly exploring new horizons too, but unfortunately, it's time for us to hit the grindstone on this project. If you could do me a favor and help me out by (list tasks), I'll make it up to you by discussing (poetry, music, whatever inspires her) at Starbucks afterwards. That way, it won't be a complete drag, will it?"

Who knows, you may make a new best friend.

[INTPness]

You will never get results by trying to get people to be someone who they are NOT. Every person that puts forth their willingness to be a part of your endeavor and to contribute their valuable time has the "potential" to be an asset to you, provided that they are used to their strengths. Don't try to plug her into a hole that she doesn't fit in just yet. Delegate the parts of the project that fit who she is, and no more than that right now. That may mean she plays less of a role than you had originally hoped she would or that she doesn't get as much responsibilities as other members, but in the beginning stages it is imperative that you utilize the strengths of the people who have offered their time and help. Since you're the leader, it is you who will have to pick up the loose ends that nobody else wants to do, not them. It is you who will be doing the "left over" tasks.

As for the "dreamy ideas" that have to be squashed for the sake of productivity, I guess you can either tolerate it or you can't. Maybe there is something to her ideas - maybe her brainstorming will lead you to think of something new. Ideas usually generate more ideas. But, if she's just downright pulling away from the overall productivity of the group, then maybe she needs to go?! Sounds harsh to the feelers, I'm sure...but either contribute to our mission or step aside while we continue to make progress.

[nozflubber]

dude, ANY extreme NP can make ANYONE feel like an ISTJ. If they're just wasting time on nothing, its like....... HEY GET TO THE IMPORTANT SHIT, ASSHOLE

[d@v3]

...clubs so they can have something to put onto their university applications.


Wasn't that was clubs were for back in grade school? :huh: Hmm, maybe it's NOT bringing out the ISTJ side, maybe uhh.... the INTJ side? :yes:

[Bubbles]

It's funny you say that, because I am blatantly INFP, and yet I can still get work done and quite often take on the group projects that my fellow team members feel like blatantly ignoring. :P

Daydreaming is an issue, yes, but have you considered sitting this girl down and telling her, directly, what she needs to accomplish? Give each member a share of the workload. Tell the INFP, in DIRECT TERMS, "hey, please do this for the team, by this date." Even better, give her small chunks to complete as she goes along. At work I right now, I interact with tons of NTPs, and when I am given work like that from them I do quite well. :)

INFPs dislike disappointing people as a whole, because that results in negative feelings, which we avoid like the plague. So if you let her know your feelings, I'd say she'll start stepping up. But be sure to not be too critical, because if that happens, your INFP most likely will try to keep to herself about it and not mention her less-ridiculous ideas for fear of being shut down. Again, generalization, but I don't know your INFP personally!

Delegate the parts of the project that fit who she is, and no more than that right now. That may mean she plays less of a role than you had originally hoped she would or that she doesn't get as much responsibilities as other members, but in the beginning stages it is imperative that you utilize the strengths of the people who have offered their time and help. Since you're the leader, it is you who will have to pick up the loose ends that nobody else wants to do, not them. It is you who will be doing the "left over" tasks.

Also, I second this.

[Synthetic Darkness]

You will never get results by trying to get people to be someone who they are NOT.

It has nothing to do with me pushing her to be something's she's not she CAN be a hard worker how else did she get into IB? It's just that she's so distracted most of the time and she constantly pulls away from the group, I did think about continuing the project without her but we're good friends and we were both in this equally

As for the "dreamy ideas" that have to be squashed for the sake of productivity, I guess you can either tolerate it or you can't. Maybe there is something to her ideas - maybe her brainstorming will lead you to think of something new. Ideas usually generate more ideas.

I'm willing to appreciate her ideas if they made any sense at all...she keeps talking about having this huge conference with fireworks...we haven't even had the club approved and while I'm all up for the conference or whatever shouldn't we focus on having the club approved first?

But be sure to not be too critical, because if that happens, your INFP most likely will try to keep to herself about it and not mention her less-ridiculous ideas for fear of being shut down.

That's the reason why I haven't been too mean, had anyone else been as ridiculous I would've called them out on it, instead I'm stuck having to be nice and considerate of her feelings.

Take her out to lunch one day, and start waxing poetic about big dreams and the things that inspire you about this project. Engage her intuitive side, showing her the process by which when everything works, wonderful things happen. Make sure she knows that you and she share a very similar way of looking at things.

Once that's done, say kindly, but very matter of factly, "so-and-so, I want to be broad and open and constantly exploring new horizons too, but unfortunately, it's time for us to hit the grindstone on this project. If you could do me a favor and help me out by (list tasks), I'll make it up to you by discussing (poetry, music, whatever inspires her) at Starbucks afterwards. That way, it won't be a complete drag, will it?"

Who knows, you may make a new best friend.

Haha we're already good friends but I think your idea would work best of all.

Wasn't that was clubs were for back in grade school? Hmm, maybe it's NOT bringing out the ISTJ side, maybe uhh.... the INTJ side?

Personally I believe that student organizations such as Free the Children or Amnesty International should not be about yourself but about helping other people, but those organizations in my school have turned into a whole bunch of kids who just sign up and never do anything just so they can write on their college applications that they did something to benefit others...

[OrangeAppled]

I don't relate to the description of this girl (I hate all talk, no action people also), but I suppose I could offer some help in dealing with her.

When she expresses her ideas in flowery speeches, acknowledge them, and if they sound nice but unrealistic right now, say something like "It's great you have a long term vision, now here's what I think we need to do right now to get this going in the right direction...". If the ideas are way too out there, again acknowledge them, but then say something like, "That sounds interesting, but I don't think that's in line with our focus. To get this started, we need to...".

The main thing to get her working on your side is to not be too dismissive of her input, and let her know when she is doing something that helps. INFPs respond best to positive feedback, and can be guided in the right direction with it. Just keep pulling her back down to earth & in the present time :D.

Create deadlines, because procrastination is real for INFPs, even when we know what needs to be done. I agree with asking directly for her to do certain tasks. She may simply not see what practical details need to be accomplished, so spell it out for her.

[marmalade.sunrise]

Give her concrete goals to complete. Don't leave it up to her, let her know what the deadlines are and what's expected of her, while briefly acknowledging her vision and creativity. If you're too harsh with her, she might just quit on her own or drift away or something, which might actually be what you want. If you do want to her to stay, appeal to her on an emotional level on how if she doesn't meet some of these guidelines and deadlines reasonably she'll be letting people down.

She might be in IB (I'm assuming IB is kind of like AP??) because she's a brilliant and creative visionary, or just an intelligent bullshit artist. I know I made an A in one of my college literature classes because of the quality of my tests and papers, even though I was late or absent for at least a third of the semester (of course I don't ALWAYS do stuff like that or I'd be a terrible student: I actually have a 3.9 currently). When I was in high school I'd score really high on assessment tests and get placed in honors, AP, etc. and then sometimes crap out on the routine homework assignments making me a more ultimately "average" student back then. She might be like that, too.