Types of all the U.S. Presidents

[Cinnamon Sugar]

Here's my attempt at typing the presidents. Some of these are mere guesses, while I'm of firmer opinion about others.

George Washington - ISTJ
John Adams - INTJ. Maybe INTP.
Thomas Jefferson - INTP. Maybe INTJ.
James Madison - INTX
James Monroe - XSFP?
John Quincy Adams - INTX
Andrew Jackson - ESTP
Martin Van Buren - ESFP?
William Henry Harrison - ESFP?
John Tyler - INTJ?
James K. Polk - ISTJ?
Zachary Taylor - ISFX
Millard Fillmore - ISTP?
Franklin Pierce - EXFX
James Buchanan - ESXP?
Abraham Lincoln - INTP
Andrew Johnson - ISTJ
Ulysses S. Grant - ISFX
Rutherford B. Hayes - ESXP
James Garfield - ESFX
Chester A. Arthur - XXFP
Grover Cleveland - ESTX?
Benjamin Harrison - IXTJ
William McKinley - ISFX
Theodore Roosevelt - ESTP
William Howard Taft - XSFJ
Woodrow Wilson - IXTX
Warren Harding - XXFP
Calvin Coolidge - IXTJ
Herbert Hoover - ISTX
Franklin D. Roosevelt - ESTP
Harry S Truman - ISTJ
Dwight D. Eisenhower - EXTJ
John F. Kennedy - ESTP
Lyndon B. Johnson - ESTX
Richard M. Nixon - ISTJ
Gerald Ford - ISFX
Jimmy Carter - ISFJ. Maybe INFJ.
Ronald Reagan - ESFP
George H.W. Bush - ISTJ. Maybe ISFJ.
Bill Clinton - ESFP
George W. Bush - ESXP

Comments? Dissenting opinions?

[heart]

I become convinced John Adams is S. I say he seems more STJ than anything else

John Quincy Adams INTP

Jefferson definately Ni dom.

[Sentura]

jefferson was an ENTP :rolli:

i don't know many of the others (i'm not american), but after reading the descriptions about jefferson, he couldn't be anything else. an inventor through and through.

[BlackCat]

jefferson was an ENTP :rolli:

i don't know many of the others (i'm not american), but after reading the descriptions about jefferson, he couldn't be anything else. an inventor through and through.

Inventor =/= ENTP.

In my opinion the only way to really accurately type these people is to go back in time and meet them. Good luck with that.

[heart]

jefferson was an ENTP :rolli:

i don't know many of the others (i'm not american), but after reading the descriptions about jefferson, he couldn't be anything else. an inventor through and through.

No one who ever read a biolography or any descriptions of Jefferson's behavior from his contemporaries could ever, in a million years think he was an E.

[Sentura]

Inventor =/= ENTP.

In my opinion the only way to really accurately type these people is to go back in time and meet them. Good luck with that.

oh sure. and even then you'd have to take into account the flawed system of MBTI and how technically, his functions could be in a different order than described. the question is how far are you willing to go?

[Haphazard]

Okay, there seems to be this weird thing concerning Grant.

Whenever I see typings of General Grant, he's an INTJ, however whenever I see typings of President Grant, he's and ISFP.

Did he get hit on the head really hard between the two careers? Because that's kind of a drastic change.

[BlackCat]

oh sure. and even then you'd have to take into account the flawed system of MBTI and how technically, his functions could be in a different order than described. the question is how far are you willing to go?

Not far enough to get in this same debate that will derail this thread along with the 234978238947523894 others that this "other function order" idea has been brought up in. :coffee:

[Sentura]

No one who ever read a biolography or any descriptions of Jefferson's behavior from his contemporaries could ever, in a million years think he was an E.

what exactly is extroversion to you? that he seeks out other people to talk to? that he needs to be with other people? in MBTI functions, extro/introversion is tied to a function, and the outcome of that function determines whether the person is introvert or extrovert; NOT what contemporaries thought he was and NOT whether he sought out other people.

[heart]

oh sure. and even then you'd have to take into account the flawed system of MBTI and how technically, his functions could be in a different order than described. the question is how far are you willing to go?

If you want to type him under a different personality system that's fine, but under MBTI there's no way he was ENTP.

[Sentura]

If you want to type him under a different personality system that's fine, but under MBTI there's no way he was ENTP.

i'm typing him under MBTI as ENTP. i haven't been referring to another system in this thread.

[BlackCat]

i'm typing him under MBTI as ENTP. i haven't been referring to another system in this thread.

Reasoning behind E?

[Cinnamon Sugar]

Okay, there seems to be this weird thing concerning Grant.

Whenever I see typings of General Grant, he's an INTJ, however whenever I see typings of President Grant, he's and ISFP.

Did he get hit on the head really hard between the two careers? Because that's kind of a drastic change.

Apparently, despite being famous for his military career as well as his presidency, he was a fairly gentle, kindly person. Of course, being gentle and kind doesn't exclude one from being INTJ - ISFX is just my rather haphazard guess.

[heart]

oh sure. and even then you'd have to take into account the flawed system of MBTI and how technically, his functions could be in a different order than described. the question is how far are you willing to go?

I don't often make comments like this but: Why can't you just make one master thread for debating the whole issue of MBTI as a whole and not derail threads like this? :huh:

[Haphazard]

Apparently, despite being famous for his military career as well as his presidency, he was a fairly gentle, kindly person. Of course, being gentle and kind doesn't exclude one from being INTJ - ISFX is just my rather haphazard guess.

I just found it odd... considering he was a competent general but generally remembered as an incompetent president because of all the corruption he tolerated, so I thought there might be some underlying bias. :doh:

[Sentura]

Reasoning behind E?

http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirsey&f=fourtemps&tab=5&c=jefferson

In his college years at William and Mary he studied philosophy, the literary classics and mathematics, and the law. He was deeply engrossed in his studies and could at any time, as one of his classmate recalled, "tear himself away from his dearest friends and fly to his studies."

Ne

Jefferson's thinking had a terrible intensity and he guarded his private world carefully so that others rarely had access to it. Yet he longed for friends and, at least in his youth, found some time to enjoy a reasonably outgoing and cheerful social life.

extraversion

He had an unending fascination with philosophy, political and economic theory, architecture, inventions, science and technology. He single-handedly designed and founded the University of Virginia, was the architect for his own home, Monticello, and for the homes of a number of his friends; he also studied a half dozen languages, some mathematics, astronomy, surveying, botany and zoology, and became successful as a lawyer, farmer, philosopher, political scientist, writer, scientist, musician, and inventor.

Ne > Ti

[Sentura]

I don't often make comments like this but: Why can't you just make one master thread for debating the whole issue of MBTI as a whole and not derail threads like this? :huh:

because i love to piss off people. why can't you put reason behind your statements instead of just saying "x isn't y"?

i made the response because blackcat started the derailing. but you're right, i should not have replied to the troll in the first place.

[BlackCat]

Jefferson's thinking had a terrible intensity and he guarded his private world carefully so that others rarely had access to it. Yet he longed for friends and, at least in his youth, found some time to enjoy a reasonably outgoing and cheerful social life.

Eh this doesn't mean E. I love having a social life.

[Sentura]

Eh this doesn't mean E. I love having a social life.

and i love to be alone, yet i am E. what gives?

[heart]

Jefferson is often described as:

Never blunt or assertive
Almost always appealingly gracious
Always bearing a slight ambiguousness about his positions
abhorred dispute
polite, soft spoken, diplomatic
In Congress he often let Madison or Monroe do his speaking/debating for him.
Very little sense of humor
"sparkled" in private conversation
Trouble with over spending
Hid from unpleasant truths
Could be hypocritical
Could be vindictive
He kept detailed records of all his spending but never used this data to adequately control his spending

How many ENTP would ever be desrcibed by others as abhorring dispute?

[BlackCat]

and i love to be alone, yet i am E. what gives?

Well you just disproved the quote... Socializing =/= E. Being outwardly focused = E. Inwardly focused = I.

[Sentura]

Jefferson is often described as:

Never blunt or assertive
Almost always appealingly gracious
Always bearing a slight ambiguousness about his positions
abhorred dispute
polite, soft spoken, diplomatic
In Congress he often let Madison or Monroe do his speaking/debating for him.
Very little sense of humor
"sparkled" in private conversation
Trouble with over spending
Hid from unpleasant truths
Could be hypocritical
Could be vindictive

source please

[Haphazard]

Jefferson is often described as:

Never blunt or assertive
Almost always appealingly gracious
Always bearing a slight ambiguousness about his positions
abhorred dispute
polite, soft spoken, diplomatic
In Congress he often let Madison or Monroe do his speaking/debating for him.
Very little sense of humor
"sparkled" in private conversation
Trouble with over spending
Hid from unpleasant truths
Could be hypocritical
Could be vindictive


How many ENTP would ever be desrcibed by others as abhorring dispute?

INFP?

[Sentura]

Well you just disproved the quote... Socializing =/= E. Being outwardly focused = E. Inwardly focused = I.

i just don't have sufficient evidence to prove that he was introverted. so instead i look at his function order, and his Ne seems to be above his Ti. in MBTI, that would constitute as ENTP.

[heart]

source please

Thomas Jefferson: A Chronology of His Thoughts‎ By Thomas Jefferson, Jerry Holmes

Thomas Jefferson: A Character Sketch By Edward Sylvester Ellis

Jeffersonian Legacies‎ by Peter S. Onuf

Thomas Jefferson by Richard B. Berstein

The Inner Jefferson: Portrait of a Grieving Optimist‎ by Andrew Burstein

The Lost World of Thomas Jefferson by Daniel J. Boorstin

John Adams‎ by David G. McCullough

Alexander Hamilton ‎ by Ron Chernow

Fallen Founder: The Life of Aaron Burr by Nancy Isenberg

A Perfect Union: Dolley Madison and the Creation of the American Nation‎ by Catherine Allgor

Founding Mothers: The Women Who Raised Our Nation by Cokie Roberts

These Fiery Frenchified Dames By Susan Branson

[Sentura]

Thomas Jefferson: A Chronology of His Thoughts‎ By Thomas Jefferson, Jerry Holmes

Thomas Jefferson: A Character Sketch By Edward Sylvester Ellis

John Adams‎ by David G. McCullough

Jeffersonian Legacies‎ by Peter S. Onuf

Thomas Jefferson by Richard B. Berstein

The Inner Jefferson: Portrait of a Grieving Optimist‎ by Andrew Burstein

Alexander Hamilton ‎ by Ron Chernow

Fallen Founder: The Life of Aaron Burr by Nancy Isenberg

The Lost World of Thomas Jefferson by Daniel J. Boorstin

A Perfect Union: Dolley Madison and the Creation of the American Nation‎ by Catherine Allgor

Founding Mothers: The Women Who Raised Our Nation by Cokie Roberts

These Fiery Frenchified Dames By Susan Branson

you read all of those and got less than 100 words?

normally i wouldn't suspect people of lying to prove their own statements, but i'd reckon you just picked all of those because you knew i wouldn't bother going to the library to read every page of every single one of them to see whether you statements are true or not. besides, if you read all of those, i'd bet there are some good anecdotes in the very least a few of them that you could cite for your own claim, instead of just coming with vague general characteristics.

[heart]

you read all of those and got less than 100 words?

You really want an essay paper on Jefferson's personality? :huh: Most people on here complain about long posts and here I was trying to be concise.

normally i wouldn't suspect people of lying to prove their own statements, but i'd reckon you just picked all of those because you knew i wouldn't bother going to the library to read every page of every single one of them to see whether you statements are true or not.

You don't have to read every single page or every single book. I just listed some of the books I have read which talk about Jefferson. Several people here have read some of these books and they could easily catch me on any "lies" I told. :rolleyes:

Anyway don't you know how to use an index? Or is it that you really don't have any true interest in Thomas Jefferson? He's a fascinating personality to study.

besides, if you read all of those, i'd bet there are some good anecdotes in the very least a few of them that you could cite for your own claim, instead of just coming with vague general characteristics.

So now you want me to type out quotes from the books? And then even when I do, you will still accuse me of not having cited enough sources?

Maybe I will type some of the quotes out over the course of this week. I've got housework and other stuff to do right now.

[Sentura]

You really want an essay paper on Jefferson's personality? :huh: Most people on here complain about long posts and here I was trying to be concise.

especially when quoting vague generalizations from a huge number of books!

Anyway don't you know how to use an index? Or is it that you really don't have any true interest in Thomas Jefferson? He's a fascinating personality to study.

i study till i have enough data. i don't see why i should keep going through numerous volumes just to further confirm my results. what made me be skeptic was definitely the number of books you blurted out.

So now you want me to type out quotes from the books? And then even when I do, you will still accuse me of not having cited enough sources?

i will take your word for it. i promise.

Maybe I will type some of the quotes out over the course of this week. I've got housework and other stuff to do right now.

i'll be right here, watching the kids and reminiscing about my youth. the darn youngins are wild. no, back in my day...

[Quinlan]

Okay, there seems to be this weird thing concerning Grant.

Whenever I see typings of General Grant, he's an INTJ, however whenever I see typings of President Grant, he's and ISFP.

Did he get hit on the head really hard between the two careers? Because that's kind of a drastic change.

Not really that big of a leap, <Ni, Te, Fi, Se> to <Fi, Se, Ni, Te>

Ni+Te (INTJness) is like a fall back second option (being their second strongest function combo) for ISFP and vice versa.*


*According to me.

[heart]

especially when quoting vague generalizations from a huge number of books!

i study till i have enough data. i don't see why i should keep going through numerous volumes just to further confirm my results. what made me be skeptic was definitely the number of books you blurted out..

You asked me where I got my information on Jefferson's personality traits, I shared my reading list on Jefferson. That wasn't good enough for you, so now you're attempting to say I am lying. So I am totally confused about what you want. I think you're just being disingenous.

So the more books one has read on a topic, the more you distrust what they say? Odd way to look at the world.

If ask me about Nixon or Clinton or Bush, I have read zero books on them but I've read a lot on Jefferson, because of the time period he lived in and he being one of the more fascinating figures in a fascinating time period. I read everything I can get my hands on about the 1700s, sorry if that offends the way you think people *should* collect their information. :rolleyes:

But as I said, you needn't read every single page of every single book. Do you know how to use an index?

[Haphazard]

Not really that big of a leap, <Ni, Te, Fi, Se> to <Fi, Se, Ni, Te>

Ni+Te (INTJness) is like a fall back second option (being their second strongest function combo) for ISFP and vice versa.*


*According to me.

That may be true, but what I was trying to point out is perhaps an NT/SF bias that I thought I saw there. It just bothered me.

[heart]

Re: Sentura and his demand for sources and specific example---his charge that I might be lying about my sources because I had listed too many. :rolleyes:

Alexander Hamilton ‎ by Ron Chernow

p. 310-323 Detailed descriptions of how Jefferson appeared to many others, detailed descriptions of Jefferson avoiding conflict in Rev war, detailed descriptions of Jefferson allowing others to speak and fight his battles (Madison and Monroe often spoke for him at his request), about how Jefferson was universally seen as gracious, mannerly, quiet)

p. 450 (tells how Jefferson maligned Hamilton as neurotic, spineless hypochondriac in his Sept 1793 letter to Madison when the truth was Hamilton actually lay near death from Yellow Fever. In the same letter Jefferson also accuses Hamilton of being a military coward when the reverse was actually true. Hamilton had faced battle many times as military officer but Jefferson as Virginia’s governor had hid in the woods when British troops advanced on Virginia.

Jeffersonian Legacies‎ by Peter S. Onuf

Passages about Jefferson’s abhorrence for conflict on pp 129-134

One particular passage on p. 51: As Secretary of State Jefferson had felt free to decry John Adam’s “political heresies” in a letter to Washington but when that letter was published without his consent, Jefferson complained to Washington:

“I certainly never made a secret of my being anti-monarchial and anti-aristocrat; but I am sincerely mortified to be thus brought forward on the public stage, where to remain, to advance or to retire, will equally against my love of silence and quiet and my abhorrence of dispute.”

Jefferson was perfectly willing to be frank in private but not in public. Didn't want to deal with the conflicts and loss of harmony.


P. 182-184

Dumas Malone(best known for his multi-volume biography of Thomas Jefferson for which he earned the 1975 Pulitzer Prize) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumas_Malone)states that Jefferson’s “extreme distaste for personal controversy” “was a defect of his politeness and amiability which caused him to seem deceptive.”

Jefferson didn’t want his Notes on Virginia circulated out of concern that the emancipation issues he raised in them would “produce an irritation.” David Brion Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brion_Davis)wonders “how he expected to encourage the cause of emancipation without producing irritation.” Clearly Jefferson felt more concern over keeping harmony than pushing the cause of emancipation.



John Adams‎ - Page 112 (descriptions of Jefferson from people in his time)
by David G. McCullough

p. 319 Jefferson’s compulsive shopping, buying things he could not afford, on things like fine wines, French clothes, books, French cooking….while preaching to his daughter (and others) to never purchase things she didn’t have the money for . Discusses his meticulous records of his spending meanwhile never attempting to cut back. (my comment: All inferior Se coming out under stress? He was often ill during this period)

p. 320-321 Jefferson abhorred cities and crowds so he tended to live out side the city but he did enjoy theatre, fine foods, shopping etc. Seemed conflicted in this area. Enjoying the benefits of city life but not necessary the throngs of people.

p. 321 Enjoyed playing chess but once “decisively” beaten at it he did not go back to the chess club.




Thomas Jefferson: A Chronology of His Thoughts‎
By Thomas Jefferson, Jerry Holmes
On page 164, a detailed description of Jefferson from his contemporary Margaret Bayard Smith. She describes him as being reserved to the point of being chilling when first making his acquaintance and then he warms and directs the conversation along subjects personally tailored to the interests of the person he is talking to, showing much understanding of interpersonal relations and a willingness and great ability to seek harmony with the person he is conversing with. She describes his voice as soft, almost femininely gentle. Speaks glowingly of his overall graciousness and manners.



The South
By B. Clarence Hall, C. T. Wood
p. 53 How Jefferson’s excessive spending on things like fine wines forced him to sell his library to fend off creditors.


Thomas Jefferson by Richard B. Berstein

p. 90-93

Describes Jefferson as:

Poor public speaker
Disliked addressing an audience
quiet
indirect
diplomatic


Also says Jefferson believed that people were a source of virtue and wisdom. So he wants to see the best in human nature.

Interestingly enough, on page 80, the author discusses how stressful it was for Jefferson to watch the poor suffer in Paris and the French Rev unfold and then right after that discusses how his time in Paris gave him a lifelong taste for luxuries such as fine wines.


p. 190 Discusses how Jefferson could not reconcile his admiration for a gentleman free-spending farmer elite with Democratic ideas. More proof of Jefferson not facing unpleasant truths and holes in his own logic.

The Inner Jefferson by Andrew Burstein

p. 9

Burstein describes Jefferson as:
1. a Master record keeper, especially of his own habits
2. a political revolutionary with a strong complusion to preserve personal order
3. a father who espoused the value of self discipline
4. strove for the predictible in his own life, sensible regulation which would make life durable and free of drama.
5. To Thomas Jefferson, the pursuit of happiness implied the erection of a sturdy framework--the potiential to be indepedent and creative and above all this meant writing. Jefferson lives a lot of his life in his mind, reading books and writing letters.
6. A gentleman farmer. Jefferson is quoted: "No occupation is so delightful to me as the culture of the earth, and no culture comparable to the garden." He was an avid gardener and shared much information with Charles Wilson Peale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wilson_Peale), the Philadelphian artist and museum keeper
7. an amateur musician and scientist
8. a wine connoisseur



Thomas Jefferson also enjoyed sharing passionate ideas from his reading with his two closest confidants Monroe and Madison.



p. 202 Jefferson described himself as "too desirous of quiet to place myself in the way of contention."

Author says that Jefferson's response to personal hurts was to weld his pen in response.

Author says (uses sources to prove it) that Jefferson judged other people firstly by what he sensed in their hearts. He used the term "rotten-hearted" as the highest form of negative judgment.

Jefferson had a "cosumate knowldege of the human heart" and he also sought to surround himself with "sincere and reasonable (harmony-seeking) companions."




There is also much to be said of Jefferson on the one hand feeling strongly in support of emancipation yet at the same time his spendthrift ways kept him in a situation where he was dependent on the income his plantation brought in and made him unable to emancipate his own slaves. Further proof of his hiding unpleasant truths from himself and being inner conflicted on important issues


He also is described over and over as "systematic" in his habits, which seems to support INJ better than ENP.

Okay, if this isn't enough, I am sure I can produce more as the week progresses. Just let me know. :newwink:

[Peguy]

Jefferson is INJ, and when I have time I'll add onto what heart has said here.

Okay, there seems to be this weird thing concerning Grant.

Whenever I see typings of General Grant, he's an INTJ, however whenever I see typings of President Grant, he's and ISFP.

Did he get hit on the head really hard between the two careers? Because that's kind of a drastic change.

Yes I notice that as well. Rather odd really, I can't think of anyother person that this happens to. I can certainly say that General Grant was indeed an INTJ. He had a far better grasp of grand stratgey than his rival Robert E. Lee.

[Sentura]

an INJ with Ne? i seriously doubt it. i argue that if he was INJ, he would:

a) show more Ni in his behavior (and not drifting Ne)
b) be more organized and less of a jack-of-all-trades (he was multi-faceted; i don't believe J's would ever be able to have that)

for most of your quotes, it seems he would have either some sort of vice or a double standard. i doubt a J would have the same:

The South
By B. Clarence Hall, C. T. Wood
p. 53 How Jefferson’s excessive spending on things like fine wines forced him to sell his library to fend off creditors.

natural P. a J would definitely have foreseen this and either kept himself from being impulsive or devised a plan to work things out.

p. 319 Jefferson’s compulsive shopping, buying things he could not afford, on things like fine wines, French clothes, books, French cooking….while preaching to his daughter (and others) to never purchase things she didn’t have the money for . Discusses his meticulous records of his spending meanwhile never attempting to cut back.

impulsive behavior is P. having a double standard is definitely not J. INTJs strike me as people who at all times have their bases covered, logically. jefferson didn't.

There is also much to be said of Jefferson on the one hand feeling strongly in support of emancipation yet at the same time his spendthrift ways kept him in a situation where he was dependent on the income his plantation brought in and made him unable to emancipate his own slaves. Further proof of his hiding unpleasant truths from himself and being inner conflicted on important issues

what has this to do with being INJ? if anything, it cements him as being P.

[Cimarron]

Fun, looks like very good choices, too.

Woodrow Wilson - IXTX
I never see much discussion about Wilson's type. I wonder, what are people's thoughts about it?


John Adams - INTJ. Maybe INTP.
Usually he's listed as some kind of ETJ. Lately, I've been thinking ESTJ fits him.
Martin Van Buren - ESFP?
Quite possible. They say he was a master politician. Maybe he was great at dealing and talking with people.
William Henry Harrison - ESFP?
You going by his choice to not wear his coat during the freezing, nasty weather at his inauguration? :D Or by his military career?
John Tyler - INTJ?
Very interesting, sounds like a very strong possibility. People taken completely by surprise when his ideas become known. So his "plans" and ideas seem ordered and structured to you, versus something like ISTP?
James K. Polk - ISTJ?
Another interesting choice. His accomplishing everything he set out to do, his bringing "Manifest Destiny" for which the public had called (mostly society's idea, or just his?)
Zachary Taylor - ISFX
Millard Fillmore - ISTP?
Franklin Pierce - EXFX
James Buchanan - ESXP?
Somehow, I think an ESXP would have made a stronger impact (see list at the bottom of my post)...even though it was difficult at that time to make any impact that would be remembered.
Abraham Lincoln - INTP
Andrew Johnson - ISTJ
Ulysses S. Grant - ISFX
Rutherford B. Hayes - ESXP
Why do you choose this? Because he "ended Reconstruction" of the South? Or wasn't that just brokering an election?
James Garfield - ESFX
Chester A. Arthur - XXFP
Grover Cleveland - ESTX?
Benjamin Harrison - IXTJ
William McKinley - ISFX
William Howard Taft - XSFJ

Warren Harding - XXFP
Calvin Coolidge - IXTJ
Herbert Hoover - ISTX

Harry S Truman - ISTJ
Dwight D. Eisenhower - EXTJ
Lyndon B. Johnson - ESTX
Richard M. Nixon - ISTJ
Most people seem to agree on the TJ for him. I don't think he's ISTJ, though. He had a lot of surprises and innovation...(even in a different way than James Polk or Andrew Johnson)
Gerald Ford - ISFX
Jimmy Carter - ISFJ. Maybe INFJ.
George H.W. Bush - ISTJ. Maybe ISFJ.
Bill Clinton - ESFP
George W. Bush - ESXP

And the men listed below are fun to compare. The great "Personalities" of the presidency:
Andrew Jackson - ESTP
Theodore Roosevelt - ESTP
Franklin D. Roosevelt - ESTP
John F. Kennedy - ESTP
Ronald Reagan - ESFP

[Peguy]

b) be more organized and less of a jack-of-all-trades (he was multi-faceted; i don't believe J's would ever be able to have that)

That's complete nonsense. INJs can be as much jacks of all trades, abeit in a different manner than Ne people. I put forth myself as an example of such. I'm literally overwhelmed by the myriad of interests and ideas that bombard my mind, not to mention contemplating the cosmic unity between them all.

[Sentura]

That's complete nonsense. INJs can be as much jacks of all trades, abeit in a different manner than Ne people. I put forth myself as an example of such. I'm literally overwhelmed by the myriad of interests and ideas that bombard my mind, not to mention contemplating the cosmic unity between them all.

it's not just being bombarded by ideas, it's also about being able to execute them all little by little. but hey, be the J that is the exception to the rule. i haven't found one yet.

[Peguy]

it's not just being bombarded by ideas, it's also about being able to execute them all little by little.
That rules out J because?


but hey, be the J that is the exception to the rule. i haven't found one yet.

Maybe you need to read up on more INJs.

[Sentura]

That rules out J because?

it doesn't. i'm not ruling them out, but i'm basing this on that i have no sufficient evidence to see that kind of behavior among Js (especially INJs).

[Peguy]

it doesn't. i'm not ruling them out, but i'm basing this on that i have no sufficient evidence to see that kind of behavior among Js (especially INJs).

In other words, you don't have a real reason.

[Peguy]

There are a bunch of inaccurate stereotypes floating around about J/P, and they're just plain wrong. I don't know where they came from, I don't know why they persist, but they're false, inaccurate, and unreliable. (Have I stated that strongly enough?!) People forget about all the other letters, they forget about the theory, they forget it's about a personality pattern not about traits -- and they hone in on two letters: J & P, as if the mysteries of the world can be solved with just these two letters. Argh!

The first stereotype is the notion that J's are always on time, and P's are always late. IT'S NOT TRUE!

Two J's live together in my household, and we're often late for appointments. In fact, the standing joke around here is that "J" stands for "Just One More Thing!" -- meaning we invariably try to accomplish one additional thing before we charge out the door. We do not have a reputation for reliably being on time (ask my ISTJ sister!).

In contrast, I've met P's who arrive at the airport several hours ahead of their flights, and arrive well in advance of any meetings. (Interestingly, one P admitted to me that he arrived early as a way of compensation for an acknowledged tendency to be late. Viva le compensation!)

The point is, if you're using a stopwatch to distinguish P and J, you are wasting your time.

Another myth is about Js being tidy and Ps being messy. Whoa again!

The messiest house I've ever seen in my life belonged to an ESFJ. It looked like a garage sale gone mad -- with a layer of dust everywhere to boot! The "J" house I live in with my husband looks like a tornado went through it.

Do you know who's probably the tidiest person I know? My ISTP dad, of course. (Notice the last letter, willya?) I also spent 8 years living with an ENFP -- and he would win the neatness award long before I would even be eligible. So saying J's are tidy and P's are messy is FALSE!

Then there's the added problem of people who try to figure out whether they are J or P based on these same criteria! Well, as the Mafiosos say, "fuhgettabouttit!"

Linda Berens has said that NJ often looks like P. And boy is that true in my NJ house. What's interesting is that my husband and I score equally on the questions of early-starting and pressure-prompted -- because we do both! Since we both possess the Chart-the-Course interaction style, we tend to put just enough energy into an event early on in the process to figure out what must be done to arrive at the goal point. But then we forget about the whole matter until we're "pressure-prompted" to actually set the wheels in motion for the event. Invariably, we cut the margin too finely, and quality of life can be rather questionable until the event has ended.

There are other stereotypes around J/P -- you probably know what they are. I've heard that "Js are determined and energetic while Ps are unmotivated wimps." Whuh?! Where is that written, I wonder? Does that describe a healthy attribute of Type, as Isabel Myers intended? I don't THINK so!! And it's about as true as saying men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

Dr. Berens says that if we spend too much time talking about J, before long we're really talking about SJ (extreme SJ!)... and if we spend too much time talking about P, we're really talking about NP (extreme NP!). So it's not good to single out and focus on J/P alone for drawing lots of Type conclusions.

Whenever I see conversation deteriorate to the point that J and P are the only letters I'm hearing, then I know we're not talking type theory anymore -- we're talking bias and stereotype, and that means we don't know enough about type theory overall to keep the conversation going properly. I don't have patience for that, and I believe it's ignorant and inappropriate.

The bottom line is that you can't point at that last letter and make a boatload of assumptions about it -- because whatever you assume will prove untrue for some portion of Earth's population. So don't do it.

Right?

INFJ or INFP? a closer look (http://www.infjorinfp.com/)

[Sentura]

In other words, you don't have a real reason.

i've seen behavior of this type in many NPs(including leonardo da vinci (ENTP) and myself). evidence as of now points towards a NP trait. i'd be willing to change my mind if i saw evidence for this type of behavior in INJs... i just haven't seen any.

also, it's not about being tidy or messy or whatever else, it's the way that Ne and Ni are described.

[Haphazard]

Yes I notice that as well. Rather odd really, I can't think of anyother person that this happens to. I can certainly say that General Grant was indeed an INTJ. He had a far better grasp of grand stratgey than his rival Robert E. Lee.

So is he proof that 'gentle' and 'tolerant' INTJs exist?

[heart]

an INJ with Ne? i seriously doubt it. i argue that if he was INJ, he would:

a) show more Ni in his behavior (and not drifting Ne)
b) be more organized and less of a jack-of-all-trades (he was multi-faceted; i don't believe J's would ever be able to have that)

for most of your quotes, it seems he would have either some sort of vice or a double standard. i doubt a J would have the same:



natural P. a J would definitely have foreseen this and either kept himself from being impulsive or devised a plan to work things out.



impulsive behavior is P. having a double standard is definitely not J. INTJs strike me as people who at all times have their bases covered, logically. jefferson didn't.



what has this to do with being INJ? if anything, it cements him as being P.


Hmm, it'd interesting if some of the people who actually use MBTI to type people will comment on his traits. Maybe he really was INP but you haven't convinced me.

The thing about him being gracious, harmony seeking and having a deep understanding of people makes it hard to see him as INTP, much less ENTP.

[heart]

Here is part of my thinking on this, inferior Se under stress:

Jefferson keeping endless details on his own spending but never applying it to budget himself screams inferior Se.

And his taste for finer foods and wines aqcuired while in Paris could be inferior Se as well, coming during a period of stress in midlife when inferior functions are becoming stronger.



infp.globalchatter.com :: Log in (http://infp.globalchatter.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=7992)


Quote:
From "Was that Really Me?" by Naomi L Quenk, pp. 198-202

Jung (1976a) incorporates the three qualities of inferior Extraverted Sensing (obsessive focus on external data, overindulgence in sensual pleasures, and an adversarial attitude toward the outer world) in the following comment:

What the introverted intuitive represses most of all is the sensation of the object, and this colours his whole unconscious. It gives rise to a compensatory extraverted sensation function of an archaic character. The unconscious personality can best be described as an extraverted sensation type of a rather low and primitive order. Instinctuality and intemperance are the hallmarks of this sensation, combined with an extraordinary dependence on sense-impressions. This compensates the rarefied air of the intuitive's conscious attitude. (p. 402)


Quote:
Obsessive Focus on External Data

Effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types are open to the widest variety of information from the environment--the more the better for them. Fully experiencing the outside world is their greatest pleasure. For an INTJ or INFJ in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, data from the outside world can seem overwhelming. Facts and details in the world demand the attention of the Introverted Intuitive type in the grip, so he or she obsesses about them. This may be experienced by both INTJs and INFJs as a state of intensity and drivenness. Their attempts to control the details in their environment are often expressed in such activities as feverishly cleaning the house, moving furniture, and organizing records and other materials. They may show an adamant concern about minute details and an unrelenting effort to control everything in their immediate vicinity...


INTJ woman said, "I can become obsessed by detail. I'm less able to function and make decisions--sort of paralyzed."

An INFJ said, "I alphabetize my compact discs; or suddenly it's time to do tha thing i thought about doing two months ago. I drop everything and do it; or I fixate on smells and sounds." "I organize or clean. I feel pressured and can't think clearly," reported another INFJ. "I nitpick about things in the environment. i bombard people verbally and obsess out loud."

....

Quote:
Overindulgence in Sensual Pleasures

In effective dominant Extraverted Sensing types, the enjoyment of sensual pleasures is natural, spontaneous, and quite consistent with their focus on the reality of the immediate environment. In Introverted Intuitive types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Sensing, this quality takes the form of sensual excess rather than sensual pleasure. It is interesting that a number of INTJs and INFJs described themselves as becoming "self-centered" and "self-indulgent" when they are in the grip--a descriptor often projected onto well-functioning Extraverted Sensing types by INTJs and INFJs (and by other types as well).

Overdoing gratification of the senses is a commonly mentioned behavior for INTJs and INFJs in the grip of their inferior function. they may overeat or binge. They see themselves as obsessively doing harm to their bodies. A typical "tactic" is to overindulge compulsively and immediately therafter--if not during the episode--berate themselves for their uncontrolled, shallow, destructive behavior.


...INTJ feels bad about her overeating but not guilty: "I hate it when people brag about how much they exercise!" she said. ...

[Sentura]

The thing about him being gracious, harmony seeking and having a deep understanding of people makes it hard to see him as INTP, much less ENTP.

...you don't seem to understand ENTPs well then. take a look at jenocyde, she's a prime example of an ENTP seeking harmony.

[heart]

...you don't seem to understand ENTPs well then. take a look at jenocyde, she's a prime example of an ENTP seeking harmony.

She doesn't seem shy of conflict to me.

[Sentura]

She doesn't seem shy of conflict to me.

harmony and conflict aren't opposites. i claim you can have a harmonious conflict (and also, that it's the best thing ever).

[heart]

harmony and conflict aren't opposites. i claim you can have a harmonious conflict (and also, that it's the best thing ever).

That wasn't the case with Jefferson, he avoiding pushing important issues because he was too focused on avoiding conflict.

Jeffersonian Legacies‎ by Peter S. Onuf

Passages about Jefferson’s abhorrence for conflict on pp 129-134

One particular passage on p. 51: As Secretary of State Jefferson had felt free to decry John Adam’s “political heresies” in a letter to Washington but when that letter was published without his consent, Jefferson complained to Washington:

“I certainly never made a secret of my being anti-monarchial and anti-aristocrat; but I am sincerely mortified to be thus brought forward on the public stage, where to remain, to advance or to retire, will equally against my love of silence and quiet and my abhorrence of dispute.”

Jefferson was perfectly willing to be frank in private but not in public. Didn't want to deal with the conflicts and loss of harmony.


P. 182-184

Dumas Malone(best known for his multi-volume biography of Thomas Jefferson for which he earned the 1975 Pulitzer Prize) states that Jefferson’s “extreme distaste for personal controversy” “was a defect of his politeness and amiability which caused him to seem deceptive.”

Jefferson didn’t want his Notes on Virginia circulated out of concern that the emancipation issues he raised in them would “produce an irritation.” David Brion Davis wonders “how he expected to encourage the cause of emancipation without producing irritation.” Clearly Jefferson felt more concern over keeping harmony than pushing the cause of emancipation.

[Sentura]

that would put him in the light of Fe - although that could be a tertiary function, technically. it is also difficult to understand what exactly he classifies as a dispute in contrast to a debate.

[heart]

that would put him in the light of Fe - although that could be a tertiary function, technically. it is also difficult to understand what exactly he classifies as a dispute in contrast to a debate.

His most noted biographier describes him as having “extreme distaste for personal controversy” “was a defect of his politeness and amiability which caused him to seem deceptive.”

That doesn't sound like tertiary Fe to me. ;)

But I would like to see what some of the people who actually use MBTI standards to type people weigh in on this.

[Sentura]

His most noted biographier describes him as having “extreme distaste for personal controversy” “was a defect of his politeness and amiability which caused him to seem deceptive.”

That doesn't sound like tertiary Fe to me. ;)

what does it tell you then?

it seems the border is that he sees controversy as unnecessary because it only serves to degrade (and thus waste time). i guess the contrast would be when he is having conversations about his ideas.

what about his mastery of many crafts?

[heart]

what does it tell you then?

it seems the border is that he sees controversy as unnecessary because it only serves to degrade (and thus waste time). i guess the contrast would be when he is having conversations about his ideas.



I've already covered this. He has most of his conversations about his ideas via letters with people in his circle of "harmonious friends." When Washington allowed the publication of certain letters where Jefferson was criticizing John Adams for what Jefferson saw as pro-monarchy type political beliefs, Jefferson remonstrated with Washington over it saying that he didn't want to deal with the conflict of having those opinions made public. Jefferson's anti-monarchial ideas were some of his strongest feelings/thoughts, that's why that example was chosen. It shows how much Jefferson would sacrifice to keep harmony.

Also empancipation. Jefferson did feel strongly about the need for the US to prepare itself for empancipation yet he didn't want his Notes on Virginia circulated out of concern that it would create conflict.

That's two very important issues to Jefferson that he allowed his distaste for conflict to limit and inhibit his expression about. That doesn't sound ENTP to me at all.

And I am not dead sure what it makes Jefferson and yes he does seem to rely on a suspicious amount of Feeling but he does not sound ENTP in the way he operated his political life.

[Sentura]

That's two very important issues to Jefferson that he allowed his distaste for conflict to limit and inhibit his expression about. That doesn't sound ENTP to me at all.

instead of trying to eliminate all possibilities, try to see what function order he may have. distaste of conflict seems like an F trait, not a T trait.

And I am not dead sure what it makes Jefferson and yes he does seem to rely on a suspicious amount of Feeling but he does not sound ENTP in the way he operated his political life.

post the analysis for this conclusion, please.

[heart]

post the analysis for this conclusion, please.

You were just given this information. When it came to important political ideas, Jefferson put keeping harmony above asserting his ideas.

He is most often typed as NT, but how many NT value harmony this much?

[Sentura]

You were just given this information. When it came to important political ideas, Jefferson put keeping harmony above asserting his ideas.

He is most often typed as NT, but how many NT value harmony this much?

so what do you suggest? keep your train of thought going. don't stop halfway through, because then you're missing the other half (and it doesn't make sense to me).

[heart]

so what do you suggest? keep your train of thought going. don't stop halfway through, because then you're missing the other half (and it doesn't make sense to me).

I wish other people would come in and comment now. The back and forth between us will bore others. So I will wait for others to give opinions.

[Sentura]

i don't think others are interested enough. i'll give it another day.

[heart]

i don't think others are interested enough. i'll give it another day.

I don't think they are either. :D But one can always hope!

[Cinnamon Sugar]

Fun, looks like very good choices, too.


I never see much discussion about Wilson's type. I wonder, what are people's thoughts about it?



And the men listed below are fun to compare. The great "Personalities" of the presidency:

Thanks for the comments, Cimarron! :)

I've seen typings of Woodrow Wilson before, though I don't know where. From what I remember, he was always typed as INTJ or ISTJ - I'm less sure of the "J" part, so I left him at IXTX.

John Adams - INTJ. Maybe INTP.
Usually he's listed as some kind of ETJ. Lately, I've been thinking ESTJ fits him.

I'm not sure about John Adams. You're the second person in the thread to say that he's probably ESTJ, and I'm betting the two of you (heart being the other) know more about him than I do, so you may very well be right.

William Henry Harrison - ESFP?
You going by his choice to not wear his coat during the freezing, nasty weather at his inauguration? :D Or by his military career?

Hee! I based this one on the small amount of info I've read about his personality, which is why I'm not very sure of it - see the question mark.

John Tyler - INTJ?
Very interesting, sounds like a very strong possibility. People taken completely by surprise when his ideas become known. So his "plans" and ideas seem ordered and structured to you, versus something like ISTP?

Yes, yes. My impression of him is that he was a rather inflexible, hardline person, which typically aren't traits of ISTPs, but might be of certain INTJs.

James Buchanan - ESXP?
Somehow, I think an ESXP would have made a stronger impact (see list at the bottom of my post)...even though it was difficult at that time to make any impact that would be remembered.

Possibly. He could have been an introvert, now that I think about it again.

Rutherford B. Hayes - ESXP
Why do you choose this? Because he "ended Reconstruction" of the South? Or wasn't that just brokering an election?

Because he was a fairly mellow fellow (er, pardon the annoying rhyme). Apparently, he was easygoing and enjoyed conversing with people. He was also very good at remembering people's names and faces, which is a trait that many extraverted sensors share.

Richard M. Nixon - ISTJ
Most people seem to agree on the TJ for him. I don't think he's ISTJ, though. He had a lot of surprises and innovation...(even in a different way than James Polk or Andrew Johnson)

I'm certain that Nixon was an introvert, so he was an IXTJ, at least. I've heard about how Nixon was strongly detail-oriented (I'll try to find a cite or two for this), which is my main reasoning behind thinking he's an ISTJ.

[Cimarron]

Cinnamon Sugar, so what led you to settle on ISTJ for James Polk?

(Still looking for people's opinions of Woodrow Wilson's type, also.)

[TaylorS]

George Washington - ESTJ
John Adams - INTJ.
Thomas Jefferson - INFJ 4w5
Andrew Jackson - ESTP
Abraham Lincoln - INTP 9w1
Ulysses S. Grant - INTJ
Theodore Roosevelt - ESFP 8w7
William Howard Taft - INFJ
Woodrow Wilson - INTJ
Calvin Coolidge - ISTJ
Herbert Hoover - INTJ
Franklin D. Roosevelt - ESTP 7w8
Harry S Truman - ISTJ 6w5
Dwight D. Eisenhower - INTJ 8w9
John F. Kennedy - ESTP 7w8
Lyndon B. Johnson - ESTP 8w9
Richard M. Nixon - INTJ 6w5
Gerald Ford - ISTP
Jimmy Carter - INFJ 9w1
Ronald Reagan - ESFP 9w8
George H.W. Bush - ISTJ 6w7
Bill Clinton - ESFP 3w2
George W. Bush - ESFP 7w8
Barack Obama - ENFJ 3w4

[theplacesyoullgo]

I don't get how John Adams could be anything but a quintessential ENTJ. His writings fit ENTJ to a T. One of my favorite facts about him is that he wrote something like three times the amount of letters to Jefferson than Jefferson wrote to him during their famous correspondence in the last years of their lives. So ridiculously ENTJ.

[heart]

I totally see the Te but where are people getting N for John Adams? :huh: Hamilton was ENTJ yes totally. But Adams? :huh: His feet were firmly on the ground and plugged into the world around him and the here and now. Pragmatic, dutiful, loyal. A fine example of SJ at its best.

[theplacesyoullgo]

I realize this is such an unsatisfactory answer - I've read two books on the guy and can't think of him as anything but ENTJ. His actual writing strikes me as over-the-top ENTJ. He was far too visionary to be ESTJ (the only plausible S option). I've actually never seen the guy typed as an S online... hm. Anyway, wish I could explain my thought pattern better.

[heart]

I have the feeling some of that more visionary stuff came from Abigail...:D

[mortabunt]

These are the presidents that I know by type:

George Washington: ISTJ, (he himself said that duty is man's ultimate joy.)
Thomas Jefferson: INTP, (an INTJ wouldn't have comprimised on the slavery issue.)
Abraham Linclon: INTP, (he filed a patent, and was interested in new technology.)
Lyndon Johnson (the reconstruction one): ISTJ, (He was soft on the old southern aristocracy and was quite conservative.)
George W. Bush (the new one, I wasn't alive with the old one): ESTP, (he was a an expert of making an ass of himself, and was heavily into partying, as shown by his innaugural balls, and his huge spending.)
Barak Hussein Obama: INTP, (he keeps things secret, on issue, and he is very strategic, as well as willing to let in new innovations instead of holding onto old beleifs blind to the contrary.)
I didn't claim Obama as an INTP just because I want to hype my type.

[mortabunt]

http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirsey&f=fourtemps&tab=5&c=jefferson



Ne



extraversion



Ne > Ti

The architect refers to the INTP type. I read the book.

[Mondo]

George Washington - ISTJ
John Adams - INTJ. Maybe INTP.
Thomas Jefferson - INTP. Maybe INTJ.
James Madison - INTX
James Monroe - XSFP? (
John Quincy Adams - INTX
Andrew Jackson - ESTP
Martin Van Buren - ESFP?
William Henry Harrison - ESFP?
John Tyler - INTJ?
James K. Polk - ISTJ?
Zachary Taylor - ISFX
Millard Fillmore - ISTP?
Franklin Pierce - EXFX
James Buchanan - ESXP?
Abraham Lincoln - INTP
Andrew Johnson - ISTJ
Ulysses S. Grant - ISFX
Rutherford B. Hayes - ESXP
James Garfield - ESFX
Chester A. Arthur - XXFP
Grover Cleveland - ESTX?
Benjamin Harrison - IXTJ
William McKinley - ISFX
Theodore Roosevelt - ESTP
William Howard Taft - XSFJ
Woodrow Wilson - IXTX
Warren Harding - XXFP
Calvin Coolidge - IXTJ
Herbert Hoover - ISTX
Franklin D. Roosevelt - ESTP
Harry S Truman - ISTJ
Dwight D. Eisenhower - EXTJ
John F. Kennedy - ESTP
Lyndon B. Johnson - ESTX
Richard M. Nixon - ISTJ
Gerald Ford - ISFX
Jimmy Carter - ISFJ. Maybe INFJ.
Ronald Reagan - ESFP
George H.W. Bush - ISTJ. Maybe ISFJ.
Bill Clinton - ESFP
George W. Bush - ESXP

I think you are right for a lot of these. However, I'll let you know my opinions on a few I disagree with.

George Washington: ESTJ
(ESTJ's are just as dutiful as ISTJ's. Washington was described as being energetic and sociable. He wasn't an Introvert.)

John Adams: ENTJ
(Very outspoken and assertive, his attitude simply caused him to have a lot of enemies- but Extraverts can make enemies as easily as they make friends...)

James Madison: INTP
(Was meek- not something associated with INTJ's)

James Monroe: ISTJ
(Like Washington, very duty-focused but also more reserved and aloof.)

John Quincy Adams: INTJ
(Like father, like son- except J.Q Adams was even more INTJ than his father.)

Martin Van Buren: XSTP
(Not sure if he was Introvert or Extravert but he was considered to be a wily and crafty politician- much like Jackson. Not that ESFP's can't be wily but they are less likely to use such behavior for their own self gain.)

William Henry Harrison: ESTJ
(Serious and outspoken)

John Tyler: ESTJ
(Rough, not an innovative president but rather more practical.)

Zachary Taylor: ESFP
(What he enjoyed most was getting drunk with lots of people- not an Introvert.)

Millard Fillmore: ESFJ
(Very charitable and considerate- even though not the best of Presidents.)

Franklin Pierce: ESFP
(Similar reasons to Taylor)

James Buchanan: ISFJ
(Buchanan's presidency was similar to Pierce's but Buchanan was mostly trying to fix what Pierce broke.)

Ulysses S. Grant: INTJ
(Brilliant with military strategy. He wasn't like ESFJ Taft or ESFP Harding who had trouble saying no to his friends- Grant was simply completely unaware of how the political game was played.)

Rutherford B. Hayes: ESTJ
(Didn't allow drinking in the White House- very strict. However, strangely enough very religious ENFJ is also a possibility..)

James Garfield- ESFP
(Brilliant speaker and was somewhat of a hedonist.)

Chester A. Arthur- ESFP
(Shop-a-holic and hedonist)

Grover Cleveland- ESTJ
(Wouldn't take shit from anyone- very organized and hard-charged)

Benjamin Harrison- ISTJ
(Traditional and cold)

William McKinley- ESFJ
(Sociable and traditional)

William Howard Taft- ESFJ
(Got along with a lot of people and easily made friends.)

Woodrow Wilson- ISTJ
(Dutiful, didn't want to compromise anything, worrywart.)

Warren Harding- ESFP
(Good guy to have a beer with, lousy president)

Calvin Coolidge- ISTJ
(Not interested in theory- traditional)

Herbert Hoover- INTJ
(Engineering whiz, strong libertarian ideals, just didn't help us get through the Depression.)

Dwight D. Eisenhower- INTJ
(Military genius. Has said that he hated being out in public and didn't like seeing himself on TV. Pushed into politics, rather than actually desiring it.)

Lyndon B. Johnson- ESTP
(Opportunistic and flexible- had a "wing it" presidency.)

Richard Nixon- ESTJ
(Not sure actually.. he seemed more ESTJ than ISTJ in "Frost vs. Nixon" but ISTJ is very likely too.)

Gerald Ford- ISFJ
(Organized and devoted to tradition- very cooperative)

Jimmy Carter- ESTJ
(Behind the political smile is someone who is cold, calculating, and very ambitious. After Carter messed up everything towards the end of his first and last term, that was when he chose to withdraw more..)

George H.W. Bush- ISFJ
(Cooperative and easygoing with others. Not particularly outgoing- a near opposite of his son (ESTP))

George W. Bush- ESTP
("When I was young and irresponsible, I was young and irresponsible.")


Presidents I didn't mention, I agree with you 100% (e.g: Lincoln, Roosevelt)

[Sol_]

ENTJ presidents would be Woodrow Wilson or Roosevelt II

Other ENTJ among politics are (by my opinion): Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, Sergey Ivanov. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was ISTP.

[Valuable_Money]

These are the presidents that I know by type:

George Washington: ISTJ, (he himself said that duty is man's ultimate joy.)
Thomas Jefferson: INTP, (an INTJ wouldn't have comprimised on the slavery issue.)
Abraham Linclon: INTP, (he filed a patent, and was interested in new technology.)
Lyndon Johnson (the reconstruction one): ISTJ, (He was soft on the old southern aristocracy and was quite conservative.)
George W. Bush (the new one, I wasn't alive with the old one): ESTP, (he was a an expert of making an ass of himself, and was heavily into partying, as shown by his innaugural balls, and his huge spending.)
Barak Hussein Obama: INTP, (he keeps things secret, on issue, and he is very strategic, as well as willing to let in new innovations instead of holding onto old beleifs blind to the contrary.)
I didn't claim Obama as an INTP just because I want to hype my type.

Nothing you said in parenthases is type specific to INTP infact by your logic nearly all poloticians are INTP.
Also George W Bush is xSTJ, people arnt ESTPs just because you dont like tham.


Also ENTJ for Jackson 100%, he was a excelent stratigist and If you ever read anything he wrote you would agree. He was in no way an SJ he believed their were things in life he wanted and he was going to take them full force. Also some of his more idealist ways of thinking, his almost religous reverence for the will of the people, hes a total N.

[SuperFob]

Abraham Linclon: INTP, (he filed a patent, and was interested in new technology.)
Barak Hussein Obama: INTP, (he keeps things secret, on issue, and he is very strategic, as well as willing to let in new innovations instead of holding onto old beleifs blind to the contrary.)

Those're some of the flimsiest reasons to type someone as INTP I've seen, and I've seen my fair share of that kind of meager reasoning in my time here.

[Cimarron]

There is better evidence for Lincoln being an INTP than what you quoted. I guess that was supposed to be "icing on the cake."

Andrew Jackson as ENTJ...sounds believable. So you don't think he was an SP?

[NewEra]

Also George W Bush is xSTJ

Don't really see Bush as xSTJ, definitely not ISTJ at least. Can you say why you believe he's xSTJ?

Barak Hussein Obama: INTP, (he keeps things secret, on issue, and he is very strategic, as well as willing to let in new innovations instead of holding onto old beleifs blind to the contrary.)

Haha, no way is Obama an introvert, definitely not INTP. Just because he keeps things secret, doesn't make him INTP. Don't see the sense in that. Politicians generally keep things secret for a political agenda, not because of their personalities.

[Cinnamon Sugar]

Nothing you said in parenthases is type specific to INTP infact by your logic nearly all poloticians are INTP. Also George W Bush is xSTJ, people arnt ESTPs just because you dont like tham.

There's no way Bush isn't ESXP. He's the only president whose type I'm completely sure of. I used to be midly obsessed with him, and have read lots and lots about him. I can understand thinking he's XSTJ, what with all that "I'm the decider!" crap, but he's really not. When he was younger, he was pretty much a stereotypical immature ESXP - lazy, restless, very impulsive, but also charming and gregarious. When he stopped abusing alcohol (I believe he quit on his 40th birthday?), he became more disciplined, organized, and scheduled, and when he got into politics it seems like he projected an image of being tough, decisive, traditional, etc. You know, a S(T)J image.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Here's my input on a few presidents:

Jefferson - INTJ

James K. Polk - I don't know other than some TJ type, but he's my favorite president thanks to a combination of They Might Be Giants and a history channel program I saw on him

Abraham Lincoln - INTP

James Garfield - Has to be some kind of NT, but I'm not sure which. He came up with his own proof of the Pythagorean Theorem. Not NT's don't do stuff like that, expecially considering he wasn't a mathematician.

Theodore Roosevelt - ENTJ

Harry S Truman - ISTJ

Dwight D. Eisenhower - INTJ

John F. Kennedy - ESTP

Richard M. Nixon - INTJ

Ronald Reagan - ESFP

George H.W. Bush - ISTJ.

Bill Clinton - ENFP

George W. Bush - ESFJ

Barrack Obama - ENTP (Yeah I know no one will agree with this, but I'm putting it out there anyway.)

[stellar renegade]

Here's my attempt at typing the presidents. Some of these are mere guesses, while I'm of firmer opinion about others.

George Washington - ISTJ
John Adams - INTJ. Maybe INTP.
Thomas Jefferson - INTP. Maybe INTJ.
James Madison - INTX
James Monroe - XSFP?
John Quincy Adams - INTX
Andrew Jackson - ESTP
Martin Van Buren - ESFP?
William Henry Harrison - ESFP?
John Tyler - INTJ?
James K. Polk - ISTJ?
Zachary Taylor - ISFX
Millard Fillmore - ISTP?
Franklin Pierce - EXFX
James Buchanan - ESXP?
Abraham Lincoln - INTP
Andrew Johnson - ISTJ
Ulysses S. Grant - ISFX
Rutherford B. Hayes - ESXP
James Garfield - ESFX
Chester A. Arthur - XXFP
Grover Cleveland - ESTX?
Benjamin Harrison - IXTJ
William McKinley - ISFX
Theodore Roosevelt - ESTP
William Howard Taft - XSFJ
Woodrow Wilson - IXTX
Warren Harding - XXFP
Calvin Coolidge - IXTJ
Herbert Hoover - ISTX
Franklin D. Roosevelt - ESTP
Harry S Truman - ISTJ
Dwight D. Eisenhower - EXTJ
John F. Kennedy - ESTP
Lyndon B. Johnson - ESTX
Richard M. Nixon - ISTJ
Gerald Ford - ISFX
Jimmy Carter - ISFJ. Maybe INFJ.
Ronald Reagan - ESFP
George H.W. Bush - ISTJ. Maybe ISFJ.
Bill Clinton - ESFP
George W. Bush - ESXP

Comments? Dissenting opinions?

What's funny is that you're either close or right on for all of the presidents that I can remember Keirsey's types for. Sounds like a pretty good analysis.

[NewEra]

Barrack Obama - ENTP (Yeah I know no one will agree with this, but I'm putting it out there anyway.)

You're wrong about no one agreeing with you. You're right that he's ENTP.

[Valuable_Money]

You're wrong about no one agreeing with you. You're right that he's ENTP.

Id lean more towards ENFP myslef but I can definitly agree with ENxP

[iamathousandapples]

Barrack Obama - ENTP (Yeah I know no one will agree with this, but I'm putting it out there anyway.)
Man, I was thinking this, although I was leaning to ENTJ.

[Valuable_Money]

Man, I was thinking this, although I was leaning to ENTJ.

Am I the only one who thinks hes NF?

[stellar renegade]

Obama's kind of a hard person to type, although I'd definitely say Rational by the way he acts. His "Yes we can!" slogans were made for a purpose. He's definitely not dumb.

I just hate his guts.

[NewEra]

Id lean more towards ENFP myslef but I can definitly agree with ENxP

I see how he can get mixed up for a feeler, but in truth he's not, at least from what I've seen of him. He seems very tough to phase, not emotional, ruling with his head rather than his heart. ENTP.

[Cimarron]

Hmm, we are starting to see that old ESTP-ENTJ haziness again. With Andrew Jackson being suggested as ENTJ or ESTP, and the same with Theodore Roosevelt.

[stellar renegade]

C'mon, who else but an ESTP would round up a ragtag group of ordinary citizens, Creole aristocrats, free black men, indians and pirates along with the regular order of soldiers to fight the professional British?

Andew Jackson was a badass.

[Strangelove]

I can't say I know the types of all the presidents or any of them but here are my guesses.

Artisans
ESTP: Teddy Roosevelt
ESFP: Franklin D. Roosevelt, Lyndon B. Johnson
ISTP: Ulysses S. Grant, Gerald Ford

Guardians
ESTJ: George Bush Sr.
ESFJ: Bill Clinton
ISFJ: Richard Nixon

Idealists
ENFJ: John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan
INFJ: Abraham Lincoln, Jimmy Carter
INFP: George W. Bush, Barack Obama

[NewEra]

Andew Jackson was a badass.

Not as badass as George Washington.

[simulatedworld]

C'mon, who else but an ESTP would round up a ragtag group of ordinary citizens, Creole aristocrats, free black men, indians and pirates along with the regular order of soldiers to fight the professional British?

Andew Jackson was a badass.

Yes, and who else but an ESTP would act like a 5 year old by flipping off the Supreme Court/charge them with enforcing their own decisions when this is clearly his job, so that he can remove a bunch of nasty redskins from their own land in the name of AMURRRRICAAAAA?

I almost feel like "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!" was written for that guy.

[stellar renegade]

I don't know about the Supreme Court ordeal, but his driving the Indians west of the Mississippi seemed to be a matter of trying to keep the peace between settlers and natives. I'm not saying his agenda was well-founded but that at least he wasn't just trying to wipe them off the face of the map like all those other beyotches.

I still can't get over his crusade against the British, though. That would be a dream come true for me.

[Gewitter27]

James Madison is an INTP, I'm pretty sure...

[Ardent15]

Ronald Reagan seemed to be more of an introvert despite his public image. He was quiet and soft-spoken, had a small circle of close friends, and was rather timid about exercising authority. Of course, he was an actor, so it's hard to know.

I would guess Reagan was an ISFP.

Bush Jr. is an ESTP probably.

Obama...my guess is ENTJ.

[NewEra]

James Madison is an INTP, I'm pretty sure...

Can you explain why you think he's INTP?

[Gewitter27]

Madison made a major contribution to the ratification of the Constitution by writing, with Alexander Hamilton and John Jay, the Federalist essays. In later years, when he was referred to as the "Father of the Constitution," Madison protested that the document was not "the off-spring of a single brain," but "the work of many heads and many hands."
This shows that he is trying to deflect the spotlight, (I).


Born in 1751, Madison was brought up in Orange County, Virginia, and attended Princeton (then called the College of New Jersey). A student of history and government, well-read in law, he participated in the framing of the Virginia Constitution in 1776, served in the Continental Congress, and was a leader in the Virginia Assembly... In Congress, he helped frame the Bill of Rights and enact the first revenue legislation. Out of his leadership in opposition to Hamilton's financial proposals, which he felt would unduly bestow wealth and power upon northern financiers, came the development of the Republican, or Jeffersonian, Party... In retirement at Montpelier, his estate in Orange County, Virginia, Madison spoke out against the disruptive states' rights influences that by the 1830's threatened to shatter the Federal Union. In a note opened after his death in 1836, he stated, "The advice nearest to my heart and deepest in my convictions is that the Union of the States be cherished and perpetuated."


These passages show NT.


The British impressment of American seamen and the seizure of cargoes impelled Madison to give in to the pressure. On June 1, 1812, he asked Congress to declare war.
This shows he GAVE IN to the pressure instead of taking action. Earlier on the British were harrasing vessels. TJs usually MAKE desicions, not get driven to them. (P).

Source: Biography of James Madison (http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/presidents/jamesmadison/)

[NewEra]

^^ Alright, sounds good.

[wildcat]

No one who ever read a biolography or any descriptions of Jefferson's behavior from his contemporaries could ever, in a million years think he was an E.
I saw a movie of Jefferson a long time ago. I do not remember if they spoke French or English, but there was this American actor, famous in action movies, in the title role.
It was rather good. It was based on real facts. Anyway, the Jefferson of that movie was definitely an introvert intuiter. Somewhere between INFJ and INTP. It was remarkable how he let his household boss him. It reminded me of a Losey film, the Servant. In the film the servant takes over the house, and the master becomes a servant.

In saying this, I do not want in any way to disparage Jefferson. His values were correct.
It is all what matters in the end. He could have been the best President of the United States.

[Ardent15]

Ronald Reagan seemed to be more of an introvert despite his public image. He was quiet and soft-spoken, had a small circle of close friends, and was rather timid about exercising authority. Of course, he was an actor, so it's hard to know.

I would guess Reagan was an ISFP.

Bush Jr. is an ESTP probably.

Obama...my guess is ENTJ.


After further review, Reagan was definitely an E. And probably an N as well. ENFP, most likely.

[Gewitter27]

Id lean more towards ENFP myslef but I can definitly agree with ENxP

If Obama is an NF I'll eat my hat. I don't even have a hat, I'll have to find one. He WANTS you to think he's an NF, but don't be fooled. He's a full-on ENTJ, and he KNOWS how to manipulate people.

[theplacesyoullgo]

I just came in here to say that James Madison spent his life as first Hamilton's bitch and then Jefferson's bitch and therefore shouldn't always be assigned the title of the "guy who was never on the losing side." :)

Jefferson was hardcore INTP.

[Jonnyboy]

If Obama is an NF I'll eat my hat. I don't even have a hat, I'll have to find one. He WANTS you to think he's an NF, but don't be fooled. He's a full-on ENTJ, and he KNOWS how to manipulate people.

I agree, that guy has ENTJ written all over him. He just happens to be a T whose focus is on people. I am an INTP who is very people focused, but I am definitely a T.

[theplacesyoullgo]

I'm not feeling Obama as ENTJ. He has this diffidence about him in some ways that doesn't jive with ENTJ. I associate ENTJs with a lot of centralized, intense energy, and I don't get that from him.

I mean, it's hard to argue with a "he appears something else but he's ENTJ underneath it all" argument, and I'm admittedly relying on a lot of pure intuition, but I think that if he's an ENTJ, he's a very atypical one.

[Jonnyboy]

I'm not feeling Obama as ENTJ. He has this diffidence about him in some ways that doesn't jive with ENTJ. I associate ENTJs with a lot of centralized, intense energy, and I don't get that from him.

I mean, it's hard to argue with a "he appears something else but he's ENTJ underneath it all" argument, and I'm admittedly relying on a lot of pure intuition, but I think that if he's an ENTJ, he's a very atypical one.

Well I would have to say the only one of his preferences which is questionalbe, just because of how he presents himself, is the T. But he seems more T than F to me, even though his chief concern seems to be bettering humanity.

[theplacesyoullgo]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I also don't necessarily get a definite J vibe either.

I think the phrase I was looking for earlier was "calm and collected." He epitomizes that and ENTJs so don't.

Also, an ENTJ would have said something to Joe Wilson - ha ha.

[NewEra]

From Day 1, I knew that Obama was ENTP.

[Ardent15]

I think Obama is an ESTJ, personally.

[Valuable_Money]

From Day 1, I knew that Obama was ENTP.

I think Obama is an ESTJ, personally.

Hey guys lets all just call out random Types without providing any explanation.


I personaly think obama is ESzX in my honost opinion.

[incubustribute]

Okay, there seems to be this weird thing concerning Grant.

Whenever I see typings of General Grant, he's an INTJ, however whenever I see typings of President Grant, he's and ISFP.

Did he get hit on the head really hard between the two careers? Because that's kind of a drastic change.

I could be wrong, but I believe the issue is that after presidents become presidents they get slammed in the face by the semi truck of American public scrutiny and judgment. As a result, they have to tone down their eccentricities and personality issues so that their political image is seen as well balanced.