SJ's .. Time to put your thinking caps on :)

[saslou]

Look out of your window, open your front door.

Explain to me how we got here from your point of view and why do we exist?

[avolkiteshvara]

SJ don't have caps, they have Top Hats:

http://www.wardrobecostume.co.uk/admin/uploads/300/29_11338_Top_Hat_Stovepipe_300.jpg

[saslou]

I know the simpliest explanation is usually the best one.

But the big bang theory and meteors crammed with rich material to make our earth plentiful and flourish. Well i know its simple but it lacks excitement.

I think it would be far more cool to say that we are the experiments of aliens (bit like the matrix) and that when they realised we were not growing as we had the potential to. They started again. Thus the missing link in evolution (OK so they have just found a fossil, but evidence can be fixed to portray a particular outcome).

Evidence to back this up.
Caves somewhere shown drawings of a man (could be jesus) standing on possible fire looking all spacey (lol). Maybe not miracles he performed but acts as he was able to use more than an portion of the brain at any one time.

The missing link.

I was looking up the big words for the evolution of man in that chart thing that you used to see at school on the science wall. Anyway i found a different website instead. Again, funny how you can always find the evidence to back up your idea even if there is a possibility it could be classed as 'wrong'

III. Proof that DNA was designed by God:

1) DNA is not just a molecule - it is a coding system with a language & alphabet, and contains a message

2) All languages, codes and messages come from a mind

3) Therefore DNA was designed by a Mind

Now change the word God .. To a different higher being far more advanced than us mere mortals.


Why are we here?

I am only 30, i am still working that one out.
The new terminator film looks good though. :)
lol

[saslou]

SJ don't have caps, they have Top Hats:

http://www.wardrobecostume.co.uk/admin/uploads/300/29_11338_Top_Hat_Stovepipe_300.jpg

I am surprised i must say .. I thought a NT would of jumped straight in to answer my question to the SJ's ..

Top of the day to you sir. (slowly tilts hat)

[avolkiteshvara]

I am surprised i must say .. I thought a NT would of jumped straight in to answer my question to the SJ's ..

Top of the day to you sir. (slowly tilts hat)

Holy shit, a top hat was the answer to your question. I am ecstatic.


G-Day back to you duck.

[Amira]

http://divinecreationst.com/pics/12inchvictorianwallhat.jpg

Well, if thinking hats are de rigeur, here. :cheese: Sorry for the rather large size.

However, I tend to think this topic is beyond the scope of a forum. Thus, I think I'll opt out. Sorry Sas!

[saslou]

:huh: .. I try my best and still .. lol.

There is always tomorrow.

No more hat pictures please. :doh:

:smile:

[Amira]

But it's so fun to pick out hats! Not.

I try my best and still .. lol.


Hey, some of the other SJs will probably chime in. Just not me, as I like the discussing/debating rather too much and don't have time for it right now. :D

[NewEra]

Can't really tell, if I were to guess, I would say...

I honestly don't know. This is why I watch some of these space programs, to try and figure things like this out. There have been so many theories on this, but no credible evidence to narrow it down.

What I've seen is that it's probably a gradual process as we evolved from apes. Sorry if I couldn't have been of more help lol.

[Eiddy]

Aww Sas,

I have to commend you on trying to rally the troops into an actual discussion. Could it be that we - in this neck of the woods (forum) - are more inclined to talk about ourselves, our thoughts about how we perceive the world, rather than try to objectively analyze it at a distance?

So back to your analysis, is this for SJ and TJ's or for humans on the whole? *tells self stop asking questions* Sorry about that.. Erm, the theory of DNA as a complex structure and its inclusion in all living things. Does tell me that there must be a higher mastermind, if it is God, as most people are inclined to believe and in His (holy) books He talk about things of a more spiritual nature. Does this mean that spirits are also created with a similar structure.. Does wind have DNA??

Could it be this is where the theory of evolution vs. God exists?

If there were aliens, as some are inclined to believe, (I myself am not sure where I stand on this.) I would think that they would make themselves undisputedly known. On another note... It would be pure ignorance or could it be arrogance to think that they would want to come to destroy our race, after crossing that vast distance to just come so that they could study or destroy us.. Maybe? But, it's highly doubtful. *Starts to think about ants, crossing the ocean, to destroy or study the other ants* It would be more accurate to think that they would like to hold this world in their "back pocket" so to speak, as a source of minerals and/or energy.

Also our galaxy as we know it, is measured according to our measurements. If superior beings came from another solar system, galaxy or dimension suppose if we were measured by their scale and were considered of minute proportions or of a different DNA structure. Could we be of any real and lasting importance in their concept of reality or would it be of more benefit to search for more beneficial and superiorly intelligent beings. Since we can't even seem to make it out of our own solar system and our life span is considered of short duration and/or little value.

Could it be of what meaning are we then, if only based each in or on our own realities as we see it?

I'm guessing this could be considered off topic and if you have read through this.. thanks.

I also want to thank saslou for getting me out of my head and back into the bigger picture of things.. I really needed this, this morning especially..

Any thoughts??

[raz]

It's my world and you're just part of it.

[saslou]

Babe .. I tried (and failed)
But i will have a go at your theory.


Aww Sas,

I have to commend you on trying to rally the troops into an actual discussion. Could it be that we - in this neck of the woods (forum) - are more inclined to talk about ourselves, our thoughts about how we perceive the world, rather than try to objectively analyze it at a distance?

So back to your analysis, is this for SJ and TJ's or for humans on the whole? *tells self stop asking questions* Sorry about that.. Erm, the theory of DNA as a complex structure and its inclusion in all living things. Does tell me that there must be a higher mastermind, if it is God, as most people are inclined to believe and in His (holy) books He talk about things of a more spiritual nature. Does this mean that spirits are also created with a similar structure.. Does wind have DNA??

This is where i hit my first stumbling block. GOD. Show me proof he exists and then i could possibly believe. Noone can do this other than show me a book. *sigh*

Could it be this is where the theory of evolution vs. God exists?

If there were aliens, as some are inclined to believe, (I myself am not sure where I stand on this.) I would think that they would make themselves undisputedly known. On another note... It would be pure ignorance or could it be arrogance to think that they would want to come to destroy our race, after crossing that vast distance to just come so that they could study or destroy us.. Maybe? But, it's highly doubtful. *Starts to think about ants, crossing the ocean, to destroy or study the other ants* It would be more accurate to think that they would like to hold this world in their "back pocket" so to speak, as a source of minerals and/or energy.

Why make themselves known if we are just an experiment. Our possibilities are endless (intervention always plays a part here). We have free choice to make of our lives as we choose. Imagine for a moment your a researcher, firstly all data is possibly corrupt to show in favour of a desired outcome so there is a flaw. You need people to participate. The list can be endless. Being a higher being (or alien lol) you can look down and view everything and see all outcomes and you haven't intervened at all. Free choice.
Look just how many history books we have in existence and how many have unfortunately been detroyed. We like to know where we have come from. Could higher beings not possibly look at us with the same intrigue.

Also our galaxy as we know it, is measured according to our measurements. If superior beings came from another solar system, galaxy or dimension suppose if we were measured by their scale and were considered of minute proportions or of a different DNA structure. Could we be of any real and lasting importance in their concept of reality or would it be of more benefit to search for more beneficial and superiorly intelligent beings. Since we can't even seem to make it out of our own solar system and our life span is considered of short duration and/or little value.

Ok, i am not suggesting they are going to turn on us and destroy the human race (we are doing a pretty good job of that ourselves) but i suppose if you are at the top of the ladder, your always going to be looking down, i think anyway. If they are so advanced (and possibly not realising there are more intelligent beings out there), wouldn't make more sense to view us even from a distance and observe our behaviour.
Now i have a kid who loves conspiracy theories so this is where i have been suckered in. We dont know we haven't been visited by 'something'. The governments of the world are not going to willing hand out this information as 1 - suddenly religion can be questioned and religion = money and power.
2 - your going to have mass cult suicides going on.
3 - Another form of control.
4 - Could the governments really stop them from coming or if they did become hostile towards us, well what could we do? (being the inferior lot and all)

Could it be of what meaning are we then, if only based each in or on our own realities as we see it?

[raz]

I stopped subscribing to religions late last year. Too much bullshit involved in religions to actually believe in any of them. All of them have faults and can be proven wrong, so why consider any of them? I'll just focus on what makes me happy and go from there.

[Eiddy]

It really does seem that there are more of us agnostics out there then ever before. Maybe back in history persons couldn't profess disbelief or they would have been burned at the stake... Funny how it was these religious persons professing faith to have done this.

Aww Sas.. you did not fail, we failed you. United we stand, divided we fall. Puts on my mouse ears. LOL

[Lightning_Rider]

Personally I believe in God and creation of the Universe by him. I'm also quite religious to go with it. A lot of evolutionists think the idea of God is ridiculous but I feel the same way about the whole 'big bang theory' and evolution. I also think there is more proof out there of an intelligent being behind the creation of the universe and the human race than there is of some fish magically appearing and growing legs, etc. I've read that even a lot of scientists in the modern age are starting to discredit the theory of evolution.

Though I will agree that religion is responsible for a large part of the suffering humans have gone through throughout history and there are flaws with almost every one out there.

[Eiddy]

Aww Lighting rider.. I don't disbelieve in God, I disbelieve in man and his books professing to all be the "Truth" at the sole exclusion of the others. Everyone has a right to their own belief systems, its when it crosses over to the believe as I believe that I can't accept what is known as their "Truth". Agnostic and Atheist are worlds apart in some respects.. I consider myself an Agnostic Theist, so I have no arguements there. ;)

[saslou]

I've picked myself up now .. We shall make a stand (even if it is amongst ourselves) lol


I stopped subscribing to religions late last year. Too much bullshit involved in religions to actually believe in any of them. All of them have faults and can be proven wrong, so why consider any of them? I'll just focus on what makes me happy and go from there.

That's faith for you. I have always seen religion as another form of control. Doesn't the bible actually state somewhere that you shouldnt worship him in a place of worship. That symbols shouldn't be used in his name. etc etc.


It really does seem that there are more of us agnostics out there then ever before. Maybe back in history persons couldn't profess disbelief or they would have been burned at the stake... Funny how it was these religious persons professing faith to have done this.



Oh how times have changed ..


Personally I believe in God and creation of the Universe by him. I'm also quite religious to go with it. A lot of evolutionists think the idea of God is ridiculous but I feel the same way about the whole 'big bang theory' and evolution. I also think there is more proof out there of an intelligent being behind the creation of the universe and the human race than there is of some fish magically appearing and growing legs, etc. I've read that even a lot of scientists in the modern age are starting to discredit the theory of evolution.

Though I will agree that religion is responsible for a large part of the suffering humans have gone through throughout history and there are flaws with almost every one out there.

It is great that we are able to keep open minds about this. I think this is the biggest problem, trying to seperate religion and science.

Aww Lighting rider.. I don't disbelieve in God, I disbelieve in man and his books professing to all be the "Truth" at the sole exclusion of the others. Everyone has a right to their own belief systems, its when it crosses over to the believe as I believe that I can't accept what is known as their "Truth". Agnostic and Atheist are worlds apart in some respects.. I consider myself an Agnostic Theist, so I have no arguements there. ;)

As i always say, each to their own. Although i don't believe in god, i perceive myself to be a spiritual person (or is this just new age jargon). I don't pray to god when i have a problem but i do ask out loud for help in times of need. I don't know who would be listening but i do believe we each have someone watching over us. :)

[Lightning_Rider]

Lol, I wasn't pointing to anyone specifically or attacking anyone incase anyone got that idea... I was just sort of stating what I believe in (creation vs evolution). Of course I feel that everyone should have the right to believe in what they want to, humans do have free will after all, I think we should all be allowed to use it how we want to. I also agree that those who use religion as a means to control others or who force their beliefs upon others have the wrong idea. As I said, free will is to be used... The decision is up to each individual.

And yeah, while I am religious I also by no means discredit science. I think the two can go together nicely, even if at times there are places where some branches of science can conflict with religion and cause controversies (abortion is possible because of science for instance, also stem cells etc). But yeah, I think science is great as well, it is the reason we have many of things we have today and I think it's fascinating that we've come as far as we have. I just don't agree with every aspect of science and some scientists/theorists theories, like evolution for example...

[saslou]

Lol, I wasn't pointing to anyone specifically or attacking anyone incase anyone got that idea... I was just sort of stating what I believe in (creation vs evolution). Of course I feel that everyone should have the right to believe in what they want to, humans do have free will after all, I think we should all be allowed to use it how we want to. I also agree that those who use religion as a means to control others or who force their beliefs upon others have the wrong idea. As I said, free will is to be used... The decision is up to each individual.

And yeah, while I am religious I also by no means discredit science. I think the two can go together nicely, even if at times there are places where some branches of science can conflict with religion and cause controversies (abortion is possible because of science for instance, also stem cells etc). But yeah, I think science is great as well, it is the reason we have many of things we have today and I think it's fascinating that we've come as far as we have. I just don't agree with every aspect of science and some scientists/theorists theories, like evolution for example...

An SJ will never see anyone pointing or attacking .. Apparantly we are just to damn nice. Not that i felt you was but hey, if you wanted to and if its your opinion then you are entitled to it, so sod what anybody else thinks. ;).

I was also under the impression we were meant to be rather closed minded as we rarely shift our opinions on whatever given subject. We are clearly showing everyone here that we are infact open minded enough to have a rational debate without stepping on anyone's toes.

Woooo Hooo SJ's ..

[Cimarron]

Why did I get up and open the door? :huh:

[Lightning_Rider]

Lol, yay for us.

I just wanted to make sure I avoided conflict... It was not my intention to cause any. :)

[saslou]

Lol, yay for us.

I just wanted to make sure I avoided conflict... It was not my intention to cause any. :)

Totally understand. :).

I dont mind conflict, sometimes its good to air the laundry but i wish i didn't feel like i had to hold back. Those moments do happen rarely but thats when i am ready to explode. :devil:

[raz]

That's faith for you. I have always seen religion as another form of control. Doesn't the bible actually state somewhere that you shouldnt worship him in a place of worship. That symbols shouldn't be used in his name. etc etc.




You lost me on that. What do you mean? It's just, I already have so much crap to worry about everyday and where I'm going, that I don't need to fill my brain with something that can't really be proven and you have to take a leap of faith to understand. It makes me wonder how SJs can actually take in religion. The kind of thought required for the idea of faith goes against the lifestyle of an SJ.

[Eagle]

I know the simpliest explanation is usually the best one.

But the big bang theory and meteors crammed with rich material to make our earth plentiful and flourish. Well i know its simple but it lacks excitement.

I think it would be far more cool to say that we are the experiments of aliens (bit like the matrix) and that when they realised we were not growing as we had the potential to. They started again. Thus the missing link in evolution (OK so they have just found a fossil, but evidence can be fixed to portray a particular outcome).

Evidence to back this up.
Caves somewhere shown drawings of a man (could be jesus) standing on possible fire looking all spacey (lol). Maybe not miracles he performed but acts as he was able to use more than an portion of the brain at any one time.

The missing link.

I was looking up the big words for the evolution of man in that chart thing that you used to see at school on the science wall. Anyway i found a different website instead. Again, funny how you can always find the evidence to back up your idea even if there is a possibility it could be classed as 'wrong'

III. Proof that DNA was designed by God:

1) DNA is not just a molecule - it is a coding system with a language & alphabet, and contains a message

2) All languages, codes and messages come from a mind

3) Therefore DNA was designed by a Mind

Now change the word God .. To a different higher being far more advanced than us mere mortals.


Why are we here?

I am only 30, i am still working that one out.
The new terminator film looks good though. :)
lol

I've stated my opinions on this before. I've discussed it from multiple sides. I believe in God not a god. Intelligent design of some sort is much more credible. Beyond that it's more of a matter of faith. I do have a lot of posts on it though, one of which is fairly recent and provides a good explanation. There are even more reasons than what you listed to evidence intelligent design, unfortunately even if it's the more logical argument in some cases there has to be an exact contrasting argument.

[Eiddy]

Lol, yay for us.

I just wanted to make sure I avoided conflict... It was not my intention to cause any. :)

Lightening Rider, you are sweet.. Believe me I know when I am being attacked. LOL have a few of those threads I'm in the middle of watching. :newwink:

Stating your opinion is never an attack. Saying that we (ISFJ's) are Swifty McNoSkills is.. LOL don't comment on it, please it is better to let sleeping dogs lie. It is hard being an ISFJ much less having to defend ourselves against eachother.. I don't think so. :huh: Our extrovert counterparts understand us :hug:

Thanks Sas and Pure Mercury. Oh and the ST's sometimes too.. :wubbie:

Now Lighting Rider before I continue.. not to make any assumptions, but are you female or male. Just so you don't get the wrong idea, but maybe we can team up and share our POV without conflict on the others who really don't understand us. hahaha

I do wish to see more action on the SJ threads.. :cheese: Are we going to make this happen or what????

[FallaciaSonata]

I used to "argue" with people on this issue a lot. Not really argue, so much as defend myself. Not that I was really trying to battle, I was just trying to explain my point of view. (After I studied theirs.)

Whoever is bored can check out the thread here:

RMXP.ORG RPG Maker Forums • View topic - Religion, what do you think? (http://www.rmxp.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=61271)


I have the same forum name / picture on that site as well, and I haven't read any of the new posts after April. The idea of a debate is to have both sides learn from each other. Everyone I was conversing with had this strange notion of trying to "disprove" me. Quite strange, really. I just wanted to learn and to teach.

[Lightning_Rider]

Lightening Rider, you are sweet.. Believe me I know when I am being attacked. LOL have a few of those threads I'm in the middle of watching. :newwink:

Stating your opinion is never an attack. Saying that we (ISFJ's) are Swifty McNoSkills is.. LOL don't comment on it, please it is better to let sleeping dogs lie. It is hard being an ISFJ much less having to defend ourselves against eachother.. I don't think so. :huh: Our extrovert counterparts understand us :hug:

Thanks Sas and Pure Mercury. Oh and the ST's sometimes too.. :wubbie:

Now Lighting Rider before I continue.. not to make any assumptions, but are you female or male. Just so you don't get the wrong idea, but maybe we can team up and share our POV without conflict on the others who really don't understand us. hahaha

I do wish to see more action on the SJ threads.. :cheese: Are we going to make this happen or what????

Lol

I just wanted to make sure incase someone got the wrong idea... it can be a sensitive topic...

I'm a male, and yeah, as I said in the other topic, the SJ forum needs more good topics and definitely more posts. I didn't realise there were others 'who don't understand us' either lol I don't really visit the other type forums too often.

I would like to see the post on whoever said that ISFJ's have no skills though.

[saslou]

It makes me wonder how SJs can actually take in religion. The kind of thought required for the idea of faith goes against the lifestyle of an SJ.

I personally think the only person i can have faith in is myself.

I used to "argue" with people on this issue a lot. Not really argue, so much as defend myself. Not that I was really trying to battle, I was just trying to explain my point of view. (After I studied theirs.)
Everyone I was conversing with had this strange notion of trying to "disprove" me. Quite strange, really. I just wanted to learn and to teach.

People seem to think we are very solid with our views. I couldn't disagree more. I like opinions from other perspectives. It does seem though that i have to argue my point, which could be just as valid.

Lol

I'm a male, and yeah, as I said in the other topic, the SJ forum needs more good topics and definitely more posts. I didn't realise there were others 'who don't understand us' either lol I don't really visit the other type forums too often.

I would like to see the post on whoever said that ISFJ's have no skills though.

Please feel free to add a thread anytime you like :). We are the odd bunch, lol. SJ's are feely which creates so many problems *tut*.

I have been here since Feb and it was only a few weeks ago that i dared look at the other forums. Def go and check out the NT forum. Your head may explode with intrigue. lol.

No one bites though so you'll be fine :newwink:

[raz]

I personally think the only person i can have faith in is myself.

Yay, so the ESFJ does know how to be cynical.

[saslou]

;) .. Just one of my middle names. lol

I do have my moments.

[Take Five]

Read my posts in the Philosophy and Spirituality area, esp. in the "what is this god of which you speak" thread. It's a good start anyway.