Salary negotiations: How to squeeze blood from a turnip?

proteanmix · 09-30-2008, 02:48 PM

Does anyone have any tips that actually work on negotiating a salary?

My friend and I are trying to figure out how to squeeze a few more thousands dollars out of an employer that hired him. He said he's just going to tell them the truth: Times is hard and he needs more money.

So we figured we'd give a mini-financial layout. He's got student loans, rent, utilities, transportation, and a car note. He's single with no family or friends to fall back on in LA and it's expensive as hell to live there. Is this too much information? We don't want to go for the sob story but he can't relocate if he's not ensured that he can take care of himself. This is just bare minimum to survive.

Jack Flak · 09-30-2008, 02:51 PM

Employers usually don't care about employees' personal financial obligations, to their credit.

The trick is, one needs to be prepared to leave the job when one asks quite unemotionally for a raise, and possibly explains one's use to the employer.

ptgatsby · 09-30-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

Employers usually don't care about employees' personal financial obligations, to their credit.

The trick is, one needs to be prepared to leave the job when one asks quite unemotionally for a raise, and possibly explaining one's use to the employer.

Indeed.

Just wait until the employer goes "these are my costs, blah blah. Now that I think about it, I need to pay you less."

He really needs to be in a position of "I'll leave if I don't get more money" for this to work, IMO. Some employers might budge, but I wouldn't be better the bank on it.

Randomnity · 09-30-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proteanmix

can't relocate if he's not ensured that he can take care of himself.

I would just say this (can't afford to move without a raise), and forget the details. It would seem like complaining and would make me uncomfortable to share such sensitive information.

However I'm still in school so my opinion isn't all that valid.

proteanmix · 09-30-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Flak

Employers usually don't care about employees' personal financial obligations, to their credit.

The trick is, one needs to be prepared to leave the job when one asks quite unemotionally for a raise, and possibly explains one's use to the employer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ptgatsby

Indeed.

Just wait until the employer goes "these are my costs, blah blah. Now that I think about it, I need to pay you less."

He really needs to be in a position of "I'll leave if I don't get more money" for this to work, IMO. Some employers might budge, but I wouldn't be better the bank on it.

Hehe...too much Fe?

Truthfully, he doesn't have much to bargain with. He's got experience, but this is at movie studio so I'm sure there are people willing to work for free. He's been offered this higher paying job but it's still not enough. How can he unemotionally bring this up? What chips does he need to lay down?

Jack Flak · 09-30-2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proteanmix

Hehe...too much Fe?

Truthfully, he doesn't have much to bargain with. He's got experience, but this is at movie studio so I'm sure there are people willing to work for free. He's been offered this higher paying job but it's still not enough. How can he unemotionally bring this up? What chips does he need to lay down?

If he isn't better than anyone else....*shrug*

Maybe a second job as a dishwasher!

Udog · 09-30-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by proteanmix

Does anyone have any tips that actually work on negotiating a salary?

My friend and I are trying to figure out how to squeeze a few more thousands dollars out of an employer that hired him. He said he's just going to tell them the truth: Times is hard and he needs more money.

What Jack said: This will not work! Don't do it!

He needs to show his value to the company, then prove that his salary isn't commensurate with that value. Ways to do this:

Keep track of money that he saves or makes for the company. The more specific the numbers the better.
Does he have responsibilities that are above and beyond the original job description?
He is being paid less than market value? If not, why does he deserve more than market value?
How easy would he be to replace?

How critical is he to the company? The more pain they would experience by letting him go, the more leverage he has. If the company can let him go fairly easily, he needs to avoid giving them an ultimatum he isn't ready to carry out.

One other suggestion: Interview for other jobs and see what they offer him. If he finds a place with a better offer, he can offer his current employer an opportunity to match. In my company, it's the ONLY way to get a raise of more than 3% or so.

proteanmix · 09-30-2008, 03:22 PM

Thanks Udog.

He's been offered a new job, so he hasn't had a chance to prove anything to them yet. That's the problem. Also he doesn't work in the type of job that you can quantify how much money he makes/saves for them. We went to salary.com and while there is no direct equivalent for his job he's still slightly ahead of the average.

I think it's interesting...men are more likely to push for higher salaries. When I got my job I did a little piddly pushing and then said OK. He's really making a big deal about this.

Lookin4theBestNU · 09-30-2008, 03:39 PM

I would say roughly one third of my current staff are individuals who are in the same boat as your friend. Times are tough for many people. I think rather then take the route of asking for more money from a job he is already paid better then average finding another source of income is the logical choice. If I knew this individual was single and already making a decent salary I wouldn't be keen to being asked for more as his employer. I would suggest a second part-time job without hesitation.

Udog · 09-30-2008, 04:32 PM

People would work the job for free AND he earns slightly above market? Hmm....

The higher paying job is a definite consideration. Can he negotiate the salary for it? He could say that he is interested, but would like to know if the salary is negotiable. If he is respectful, the worst they will likely do is say "No."

The key to negotiation (win/win style at least) is to offer something in return. He wants more money... what do they get out of the deal? If they really like and want him, just asking may get a slight bump in the offer. Beyond that, what will he give them in return? Experience? More responsibilities? Extra hours?

Also, if the salary is as high as it goes, he could also try to negotiate benefits such as vacation hours and medical insurance costs.

The other thing he could try is a long term solution that won't really help with his current needs. He can ask his boss if there is anything he can do do to make himself more valuable to the company and become eligible to get a raise.

That's what I did. I asked, and my boss suggested a certification (in something that is rare in my area), and when my pay review came the next year, I got a 25% raise, followed by another 25% raise the year after that. In fulfilling my boss' request, I gave myself a unique combination of skills that would essentially require 2 people to replace me, giving them huge incentive to keep me.

09-30-2008, 02:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
proteanmix Allura red Join Date: Apr 2007 Type: Location: storming castles Posts: 3,047	Salary negotiations: How to squeeze blood from a turnip? Does anyone have any tips that actually work on negotiating a salary? My friend and I are trying to figure out how to squeeze a few more thousands dollars out of an employer that hired him. He said he's just going to tell them the truth: Times is hard and he needs more money. So we figured we'd give a mini-financial layout. He's got student loans, rent, utilities, transportation, and a car note. He's single with no family or friends to fall back on in LA and it's expensive as hell to live there. Is this too much information? We don't want to go for the sob story but he can't relocate if he's not ensured that he can take care of himself. This is just bare minimum to survive. __________________ Concentric objects share the same center, axis or origin with one inside the other.

09-30-2008, 03:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
proteanmix Allura red Join Date: Apr 2007 Type: Location: storming castles Posts: 3,047	Thanks Udog. He's been offered a new job, so he hasn't had a chance to prove anything to them yet. That's the problem. Also he doesn't work in the type of job that you can quantify how much money he makes/saves for them. We went to salary.com and while there is no direct equivalent for his job he's still slightly ahead of the average. I think it's interesting...men are more likely to push for higher salaries. When I got my job I did a little piddly pushing and then said OK. He's really making a big deal about this. __________________ Concentric objects share the same center, axis or origin with one inside the other.

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09-30-2008, 02:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jack Flak Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Type: INTP Location: The Everlasting Sky Posts: 9,359	Employers usually don't care about employees' personal financial obligations, to their credit. The trick is, one needs to be prepared to leave the job when one asks quite unemotionally for a raise, and possibly explains one's use to the employer.

09-30-2008, 03:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
Lookin4theBestNU Tell me about it! Join Date: Apr 2007 Type: ENFj Posts: 742	I would say roughly one third of my current staff are individuals who are in the same boat as your friend. Times are tough for many people. I think rather then take the route of asking for more money from a job he is already paid better then average finding another source of income is the logical choice. If I knew this individual was single and already making a decent salary I wouldn't be keen to being asked for more as his employer. I would suggest a second part-time job without hesitation.

09-30-2008, 04:32 PM	#10 (permalink)
Udog Hi There Join Date: Aug 2008 Type: INfp Posts: 1,597	People would work the job for free AND he earns slightly above market? Hmm.... The higher paying job is a definite consideration. Can he negotiate the salary for it? He could say that he is interested, but would like to know if the salary is negotiable. If he is respectful, the worst they will likely do is say "No." The key to negotiation (win/win style at least) is to offer something in return. He wants more money... what do they get out of the deal? If they really like and want him, just asking may get a slight bump in the offer. Beyond that, what will he give them in return? Experience? More responsibilities? Extra hours? Also, if the salary is as high as it goes, he could also try to negotiate benefits such as vacation hours and medical insurance costs. The other thing he could try is a long term solution that won't really help with his current needs. He can ask his boss if there is anything he can do do to make himself more valuable to the company and become eligible to get a raise. That's what I did. I asked, and my boss suggested a certification (in something that is rare in my area), and when my pay review came the next year, I got a 25% raise, followed by another 25% raise the year after that. In fulfilling my boss' request, I gave myself a unique combination of skills that would essentially require 2 people to replace me, giving them huge incentive to keep me.