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Sexism in the Academy: F*%k Graduate School

Orangey

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As if you didn't already have enough reasons not to go to grad school, here's a charming blog that's especially pertinent to women considering philosophy or philosophy cognate disciplines.

Being a Woman in Philosophy

I can say from experience that a lot of this shit is common. Who would've known, from the outside-looking-in, that advanced academic programs are nothing other than (very resilient) bastions of the Cro-Magnon mentality?
 

kyuuei

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If you think this is bad.. they aren't this subtle in the military. And at least philosophers pride themselves on logic, whether they use it or not. The armed forces has no trouble thinking logic isn't important.
 

Orangey

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If you think this is bad.. they aren't this subtle in the military. And at least philosophers pride themselves on logic, whether they use it or not. The armed forces has no trouble thinking logic isn't important.

Its insidiousness is the most dangerous part, though.

I'm sure the military is a bitch about it, but at least you know what you're up against. Not that it makes it any better.
 

Tallulah

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This definitely happens in the academy, but especially in philosophy. I'm not sure why philosophy attracts so many males of the arrogant douchebag variety, but I have witnessed it myself. And the attitude spreads to the undergrads, as well.
 

Orangey

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This definitely happens in the academy, but especially in philosophy. I'm not sure why philosophy attracts so many males of the arrogant douchebag variety, but I have witnessed it myself. And the attitude spreads to the undergrads, as well.

Yes, and especially if the program has an analytical focus (though the continental folks have their own brand of douchebags.) It's like a haven for philosophy bros.
 

Orangey

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I'd like to think region had more to do with this woman's experience than the fact it was a philosophy department. The Philosophy Departments of Utah ought not to count against the rest.

Did you read the blog? It's a compilation of women's and men's experiences from all over the place. Of course, not all philosophy departments are that way, but a lot of them (and especially the higher ranked analytical programs) are notorious for being shitty like that.

I don't know why, but that subject seems to attract a certain undesirable element, and it becomes a bit like a boys club.
 

Orangey

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yeah I did, it has the same poster on each one, and says nothing to variance in source. I figured Jender was the one female grad posting her experiences.

The fact it's a compilation of several people makes me question the authenticity, actually. Cherry picking isn't impressive.

So you think it's either Jender making it sound like the stories are coming from a bunch of different people (when they are, in fact, her own stories), or the stories really are coming from a bunch of different people but Jender is cherry picking the bad ones and ignoring the good? What is your motivation for offering such foolish critiques?

And of course there are no sources attached. That's the whole goddamn point. If you had to attach your name and university, no one would submit shit.

This blog is devoted to short observations (generally fewer than 300 words) sent in by readers, about life as a woman in philosophy. Some of these will undoubtedly be tales of the sexism, conscious and unconscious, that remains. But we hope that others will be tales of ways that improvements have been (or are being) made. Many will be written by women in philosophy. But we hope that not all will be– for others in philosophy also know some important things relevant to what it’s like to be a woman in philosophy. They know, for example, what men in philosophy say to each other when the women aren’t there.

Sigh. So what's your agenda? You'd might as well come out with it now.
 

Blank

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I'm a member of my campus' Philosophy Club and while there are a considerate number of women who attend, few speak up very often, which I find saddening. I actually find it saddening when people keep to themselves in an open forum, because I like to hear from as many perspectives as possible, but there is a trend for women to not speak up in a group setting. I've read some articles about things like this, particularly how young girls and boys are socialized and how it affects their academic roles, and I'd like the trend to change.

Scarcely do I find something more attractive than an intelligent woman, and to think they're being pushed away and told to shut up! D;
 

nozflubber

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I don't have an agenda, but now that I see you have one, I have made it my motto to treat women of sophistry the likes as you are and deserve, opt for the fort mandate straight. (PS: sentences don't need logical objects. did you know that?!). No wonder your ilk gets shot down in Philosophy. Good Riddance to the beavers.

Did YOU read the blog?!??!?! oooOOOOOoohhh. Jackass. Way to Missquote me and misrepresent me. I used to think you were one of the good ones here, too. But then again I also thought Trolls were unwelcome here in Pangea? Why Troll your own landmass, for that matter? Oh well. Chronicity never bothered the Greeks, why should it us?!?!?!!>$?#$@

Wow, hey look, Kiddies, I can play with the edit button and manipulate via strawman, too!

Orangey said:
I am in this for the greasy wheeled, snot-nosed, ass-picklings of the remainder of Appollo's light. Furor Planedefiler laid cum on my toenails and I've never seen them so bright. I endure all hair on my body for the glory of Balthusda. Them and the Ruskies.

Phillies will win the series. Apple short sells at 200. News at 25:30

I hope this post serves both of our agendas well. All Hail Caesar, Prince of Romanette. You have earned your kingdom with the grace and audacity that a man would. May it live long and prosper. peace! <prince dance>
 

Orangey

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I don't have an agenda, but now that I see you have one, I have made it my motto to treat women of sophistry the likes as you are and deserve, opt for the fort mandate straight. (PS: sentences don't need logical objects. did you know that?!). No wonder your ilk gets shot down in Philosophy. Good Riddance to the beavers.

Did YOU read the blog?!??!?! oooOOOOOoohhh. Jackass. Way to Missquote me and misrepresent me. I used to think you were one of the good ones here, too. But then again I also thought Trolls were unwelcome here in Pangea? Why Troll your own landmass, for that matter? Oh well. Chronicity never bothered the Greeks, why should it us?!?!?!!>$?#$@

Wow, hey look, Kiddies, I can play with the edit button and manipulate via strawman, too!



I hope this post serves both of our agendas well. All Hail Caesar, Prince of Romanette. You have earned your kingdom with the grace and audacity that a man would. May it live long and prosper. peace! <prince dance>

Are you drunk? Either way this is the most humorous post I've read all week. Congratulations, whether you were being serious or not.
 

onemoretime

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Philosophers are generally pompous asses. The first philosophy professor I had in undergrad was a woman. She made my brain hurt.
 

Jonny

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Are we sure this is sexism and not general douchebaggery? That is, are the women treated differently by virtue of their sex, or is it because they act differently?
 

Orangey

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Are we sure this is sexism and not general douchebaggery? That is, are the women treated differently by virtue of their sex, or is it because they act differently?

If women acted differently as a group and were treated like shit for it, wouldn't that still be sexism?

I get your point, though. For instance, in my department (which is not philosophy, BTW, so it's not limited to that discipline) the women who the male professors tended to run roughshod over were consistently of the "weak" type. That is, they actually believed that their adviser was there to be a shoulder to cry on (that's a BIG mistake) and they never stood their ground against the general assholery they experienced. They would never put people in their place as they ought, so male profs (like my adviser) tended to take advantage of their meekness. Not that students should have to be so defensive all the time, but it is the name of the game in a lot of places.

The thing that made it sexism, though, was that this never happened to male grad students, no matter how aggressive or not aggressive they were.
 

Randomnity

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The blog is a interesting read - I went though a couple pages. I did notice that

1) not all experiences were negative/biased
2) some of the comments seem like they may be attributing sexism when it's really more personal, particularly when you're one of the few women in a class, how do you know it's your gender vs. the prof genuinely disliking you personally?
3) some of the reports do seem to show clear bias
4) some departments/schools are particularly bad, which could imply a number of things

I'm happy to say that I haven't experienced bias in my graduate program (science) - maybe because the majority of students at my level are female. The bias seems to happen mostly later in the career (after the degree), and is especially (but not only) associated with having children.
 

Orangey

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The blog is a interesting read - I went though a couple pages. I did notice that

1) not all experiences were negative/biased
2) some of the comments seem like they may be attributing sexism when it's really more personal, particularly when you're one of the few women in a class, how do you know it's your gender vs. the prof genuinely disliking you personally?
3) some of the reports do seem to show clear bias
4) some departments/schools are particularly bad, which could imply a number of things

I'm happy to say that I haven't experienced bias in my graduate program (science) - maybe because the majority of students at my level are female. The bias seems to happen mostly later in the career (after the degree), and is especially (but not only) associated with having children.

Yes, some of the stuff on the blog doesn't seem to clearly demonstrate bias. For instance, there was one guy complaining about some off-hand comment Žižek made in an interview, which went something like, "philosophy is like a woman; you don't understand it but you can't live without it." Aside from being banal and probably in poor taste, I don't see what the big deal is about that kind of thing.

My department, though, had a history of sexual harassment and sexism (which I was not aware of going in). The year I started, they had just gotten rid of a couple of male profs for sleeping with multiple female grad students and hired two new (black) females as a form of reparation (in addition to arbitrarily making the only previous female faculty member the new chair...and she was the first in the history of the department.) Beginning with my year, they also started taking more female grad students (I always thought it was weird that, for a humanities discipline, it was majority male.) It was a fucking mess.
 

sculpting

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Actually my time in grad school was exceptionally free of sexist behaviors. There was this one creep who would check out the female students, but not out of proportion to creepy people in the general population.

I had a male adviser and worked with many really awesome male professors. Even as an undergrad I had several really awesome male project advisers. This isnt to say that what the OP and the blog were saying is untrue, actually I suspect the field I was in made most of the difference. It was chemistry/biochemistry/biophysics/molecular biology where about 60% of the students are female, thus gender just wasnt an issue after awhile.

I knew several female physicists and even a math major and I dont recall them being singled out or complaining about sexual harrassment either, although the number is too small to be definitive.

Hehe, I did have one friend who got hit on by her EE adviser, but then they started having an affair, so I guess it wasnt exactly uninvited... :) She seemed to like him quite a bit.

I have heard architecture is a total bitch though, and women are treated rather poorly there, but again that is just word of mouth, so I dunno..
 

kyuuei

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Its insidiousness is the most dangerous part, though.

I'm sure the military is a bitch about it, but at least you know what you're up against. Not that it makes it any better.

Yeah, I suppose I didnt think of it like that. :laugh: Something like philosophy should SCREAM "different from the rest of society", but the more I hear, the more I think it only means "Pompous and finding rationale for the way society currently thinks.."

This definitely happens in the academy, but especially in philosophy. I'm not sure why philosophy attracts so many males of the arrogant douchebag variety, but I have witnessed it myself. And the attitude spreads to the undergrads, as well.

:laugh: Philosophy sounds so haughty to me in the first place.. My friend quickly lost interest when he got in the field, even though he's always had an interest in the subject itself. The actual classes turned him off to it all.

I'm a member of my campus' Philosophy Club and while there are a considerate number of women who attend, few speak up very often, which I find saddening. I actually find it saddening when people keep to themselves in an open forum, because I like to hear from as many perspectives as possible, but there is a trend for women to not speak up in a group setting. I've read some articles about things like this, particularly how young girls and boys are socialized and how it affects their academic roles, and I'd like the trend to change.

Scarcely do I find something more attractive than an intelligent woman, and to think they're being pushed away and told to shut up! D;

:laugh: You know, I do find it funny that men always say they want smart, intelligent women.. and then everything in society pushes women away from that persona. :shrug: Maybe one day..

Are we sure this is sexism and not general douchebaggery? That is, are the women treated differently by virtue of their sex, or is it because they act differently?

I think the main point is that there are women of all varieties. Even if 20% of the blog's posts were genuine forms of sexism vs. personal dislike.. that's a particularly high number. The fact they need a blog at all is pretty dreadful. Coming from all over the country? Even worse. The odds are stacked on sexism.. And while I am sure some women DO act differently.. we are all encouraged to 'act' certain ways whether we like it or not in school. "Participate, or I will deduct points!" "Don't ask questions during discussions." etc. So if someone was merely quiet, I think the professor could fix that if s/he wanted to.
If I were in a class setting, as one story went, and I was 'shut-down' everytime I talked, even though others were talking.. or if my 'ideas' were ignored, while others expressing the same ones were rewarded. I couldn't help but think sexism.

I'm happy to say that I haven't experienced bias in my graduate program (science) - maybe because the majority of students at my level are female. The bias seems to happen mostly later in the career (after the degree), and is especially (but not only) associated with having children.

I think science is a bad example.. Science degrees also lead to medical fields.. which women have been working in for .like..forever now. But yeah, the bias seems to still be there after graduation..

One time, my sister was asked during an interview "Do you plan on having children in the near future?" I cannot BELIEVE my sister didn't rage-quit right there. How personal is that?! :doh: and it shouldn't MATTER when applying for a job!

Yes, some of the stuff on the blog doesn't seem to clearly demonstrate bias. For instance, there was one guy complaining about some off-hand comment Žižek made in an interview, which went something like, "philosophy is like a woman; you don't understand it but you can't live without it." Aside from being banal and probably in poor taste, I don't see what the big deal is about that kind of thing.

My department, though, had a history of sexual harassment and sexism (which I was not aware of going in). The year I started, they had just gotten rid of a couple of male profs for sleeping with multiple female grad students and hired two new (black) females as a form of reparation (in addition to arbitrarily making the only previous female faculty member the new chair...and she was the first in the history of the department.) Beginning with my year, they also started taking more female grad students (I always thought it was weird that, for a humanities discipline, it was majority male.) It was a fucking mess.

I could see that being distasteful in philosophy in paricular.. While it IS a mentality held by society, making subtle hints to things like that just promote a false sense of 'truth' to me. Even so, I can take a joke for what it is.. I don't see much problem with it. If it WAS purely a joke. Those half-jokes of "Hahah I say it because people find it funny--..but really.." are another story. :dont:

Sorry to hear you're stuck in a mess. Sometimes, the only thing worse than sexism is the overly sexist way of 'apologizing' for sexism. Instead of just fixing the problem, they try to overcompensate for the problem being there in the first place. Our commander of our company is a great example of that -- incompetent in every way, but she was female and fit the bill for the whole 'SEE WE'RE NOT SEXIST I SWEAR!!" apology. :doh: We're still suffering for that mess.
 

Octarine

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What is the reason for the sexism though? Egotism combined with poor social skills?
 
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