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  1. #41
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexlike View Post
    I think society itself is obssesed to measure everythink by "value", while the best measurement is money. Bot it its not, propably an odd example: i always asked my father why he does not want to sell his old mercedes. He answered me: I love the car and I will never sell it. So value is for everyone subjective, as everything. A peace of art has aslo a value, but it differes indivually.
    i think it is not the goal or it should be the goal of every indidviduall to achieve the greatest value of his work by making the most money.
    Great examples are Marx, Tolstoy, who indeed never fit in in society, but who were passionated thiknkers and who created value, which you cannot measure with money.
    Both grew up in wealthy families, but they followed their ideals. Tostoy lived as a author in his "prime time" in the high society, but he confessed that they life they all lead there was "irrelevant" and he moved to Sibiria to the poor workers, where he become at the end one of them...
    He refused even a nobel prize, as many Artists did before and after him...
    So Passion is not measurable
    So are you going to define your life based on subjective "measures" like values or are you going to define it based on objective measures like monetary gains? It's simply a personal choice. You can't argue with people's opinions.

  2. #42
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexlike View Post
    I think society itself is obssesed to measure everythink by "value", while the best measurement is money. Bot it its not, propably an odd example: i always asked my father why he does not want to sell his old mercedes. He answered me: I love the car and I will never sell it. So value is for everyone subjective, as everything.
    Baloney. If I offered your father 2 million dollars for his old car, he would sell it. Most THINGS have a price. That price may be beyond what it would be worth in the marketplace, but it still has a price at which the possessor would likely sell.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  3. #43
    Senior Member Lexlike's Avatar
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    Well, this is not so obvious, as in the example of the car , because a car is a materalistic passion. But if you look at persnoal ideas, values etc. can they be measured by money anyway?
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  4. #44
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Baloney. If I offered your father 2 million dollars for his old car, he would sell it. Most THINGS have a price. That price may be beyond what it would be worth in the marketplace, but it still has a price at which the possessor would likely sell.
    What is the price of a life? Your life? How much do I have to offer you before you sell your life to me?

    There is none. Money is meaningless without life.

  5. #45
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    What is the price of a life? Your life? How much do I have to offer you before you sell your life to me?

    There is none. Money is meaningless without life.
    Often, the price is their loved one, or their family, or their comrades (in arms).

    Life has a declining non-renewable aspect to it. It will certainly have a price, at the right time. Even our own.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Lexlike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Baloney. If I offered your father 2 million dollars for his old car, he would sell it. Most THINGS have a price. That price may be beyond what it would be worth in the marketplace, but it still has a price at which the possessor would likely sell.
    of course, he would .... as i said, this is a materialistic passion!
    But the amount of money is not realistic anyway!
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  7. #47
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Often, the price is their loved one, or their family, or their comrades (in arms).

    Life has a declining non-renewable aspect to it. It will certainly have a price, at the right time. Even our own.
    *grumbles at PTG for ruining her arguments*

    Fair enough, money is the means to the things we value. But it should not be the end objective. That's the point I was trying to make.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Lexlike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Often, the price is their loved one, or their family, or their comrades (in arms).

    Life has a declining non-renewable aspect to it. It will certainly have a price, at the right time. Even our own.
    Well, but like you said above... money those not play a role there.
    Giving your life away to save a loved one does not have anything in common with money as a measurement.
    I...74%
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    Ti- Ne- Si- Fe
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  9. #49
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    *grumbles at PTG for ruining her arguments*

    Fair enough, money is the means to the things we value. But it should not be the end objective. That's the point I was trying to make.
    Well, I meant to highlight that trade is a matter of individual value... I agree with you, for sure, in principle. The question, however, is a matter of what each person really desires and can achieve. "Take your dreams" is nice to say, but there are real practical limits programmed into us. Sometimes we are locked in - we'd have to abandon our kids for our dreams, for example. The cost is... complex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexlike View Post
    Well, but like you said above... money those not play a role there.
    Granted... if money is the only thing that demonstrate value, consider risk taking. If you drive, or bike to work, or do anything for money, you are putting your life at risk for money. Therefore, money has a tangible value over human life (I believe it's somewhere around 10 million in the US - used by the EPA and what not).

    Giving your life away to save a loved one does not have anything in common with money as a measurement.
    That's because money only has value if you are alive. Take a situation where those factors change and money does have value. If, for example, I knew I was going to die tomorrow anyway, then I'd easily take 2 million for my life now. I value the 2 million I could leave my wife more than one more day with her.

    Or, tell me that I'll die in exactly a decade but you are willing to give me the discounted 10 million (say, about 5 million)... I would have to consider it, if it would let me do all things I plan to do in my life anyway, like travel/etc. (I might not actually take this deal because I assign a small probability to immortality at this point.)

    The same can apply for causes. If someone was going to donate hundreds of millions and save thousands of lives, giving up one life could be seen, even though money would never come to you.

    It's only absolute when the person who would be dead would not see any benefit in having the money (because they are dead, heh.)

  10. #50
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Well, I meant to highlight that trade is a matter of individual value... I agree with you, for sure, in principle. The question, however, is a matter of what each person really desires and can achieve. "Take your dreams" is nice to say, but there are real practical limits programmed into us. Sometimes we are locked in - we'd have to abandon our kids for our dreams, for example. The cost is... complex.
    Complex and highly dependent on the individuals. I'm in full agreement there

    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    So are you going to define your life based on subjective "measures" like values or are you going to define it based on objective measures like monetary gains? It's simply a personal choice. You can't argue with people's opinions.
    Granted... if money is the only thing that demonstrate value, consider risk taking. If you drive, or bike to work, or do anything for money, you are putting your life at risk for money. Therefore, money has a tangible value over human life (I believe it's somewhere around 10 million in the US - used by the EPA and what not).
    Again, we're going back to the balancing act Grayscale mentioned earlier. The value in money is the means towards the end. The end goal being survival and hopefully an enjoyable and fulfilling life. How you define life as enjoyable and fulfilling is personal. How much money? How much passion? Nobody else can tell you what mix will make you happy.

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