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  1. #21
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Thankfully it is better up here (somewhat, still - we tend to lag, so who knows)...

    But I don't have any debt and do have the money saved up... It isn't about not being able to do it, it's about having to give up my future earnings that kills me. But, I worked it out in easy terms - projects I could do by saving money vs projects I would take after my degree.

    Doesn't even compare. Opportunity cost wins again!
    Well, there's nothing wrong with that.
    To me it proves you're not foolish.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Well, there's nothing wrong with that.
    To me it proves you're not foolish.
    I like to think so... but life isn't just about the numbers. I could face burnout, wasted time and all sorts of other things that I can't account for properly

    That's really the 'trap' - you get into a line of work that you aren't happy with, so you end up being somewhat miserable all the time... but changing means you would have to start over, which also would make you miserable.

    I can measure the money, but I can't measure if I'd be happier moving to a small down and making peanuts, but living a relaxed life... or if I will optimize my happiness by working up the ladder, retiring early and taking on all those projects I couldn't do if I lived the relaxed life.

    In reality, I know, I wouldn't be happier in either case - but the removal of stress would make me happier, so there is a constant pressure to leave, knowing this. What value do the practical concerns have, really, if I'd be as happy making half as much money? Money does by some degree of happiness, but only in orders of magnitude... which is a lot less than having a simple life.

    It's all a big jumble in my mind. I know numbers, but I don't know emotions

    (By simple, I mean carefree - not worrying about jumping from one thing to the next)

  3. #23
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I like to think so... but life isn't just about the numbers. I could face burnout, wasted time and all sorts of other things that I can't account for properly

    That's really the 'trap' - you get into a line of work that you aren't happy with, so you end up being somewhat miserable all the time... but changing means you would have to start over, which also would make you miserable.

    I can measure the money, but I can't measure if I'd be happier moving to a small down and making peanuts, but living a relaxed life... or if I will optimize my happiness by working up the ladder, retiring early and taking on all those projects I couldn't do if I lived the relaxed life.

    In reality, I know, I wouldn't be happier in either case - but the removal of stress would make me happier, so there is a constant pressure to leave, knowing this. What value do the practical concerns have, really, if I'd be as happy making half as much money? Money does by some degree of happiness, but only in orders of magnitude... which is a lot less than having a simple life.

    It's all a big jumble in my mind. I know numbers, but I don't know emotions

    (By simple, I mean carefree - not worrying about jumping from one thing to the next)
    Tough call, it sounds like.

    You could try asking some people who know you and love you... like your parents if you still have them... or trusted mature friends...

    I am reminded of a wise proverb:
    "In an abundance of counselors there is safety."

  4. #24
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    i think this boils down to an almost entirely value based decision.

    i can comment because i am in almost the exact same position as you... my current job is enviable in many ways, but i dont find it fulfilling, and i want to go to college to study mechanical engineering. hell, im even giving serious consideration to something like firefighting and EMT work... that pays even less.

    the difference is that it didnt take me much deliberating to decide that i didnt care how much less i'd make as long as im taking my life in the direction that i want.

    most people consider me "lucky" to have my job at my current age, on the contrary, i think i have my job because i am a smart person, and i think i am lucky to have my job because it allowed me to realize at a very early age that i could never place a premium on income when choosing a career. i feel as if ive been able to fast forward and see that there isn't any cheese at the end of the rat race. it's not about identity (i dont believe people should be identified by their career) it's just math--for the working years, i will spend about 35% of my time at my job. nearly 1/3 of my life... no amount of money is worth wasting that part of my life doing something unfulfilling.

    maybe the choices you have aren't so drastic for you, but to me, it seems like this sort of thing is best summed up by a mugger, "what's it gonna be, your money or your life?" when it comes down to it, money is just paper. you cant ask what the financial sacrifices are, you have to ask what that financial sacrifice will equate to pragmatically speaking. how does that compare to the chronological cost, so to speak, of staying where youre at... because time is one thing you cannot buy more of.

  5. #25
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    the difference is that it didnt take me much deliberating to decide that i didnt care how much less i'd make as long as im taking my life in the direction that i want.
    So, have you made the change?

    I guess I should also ask - are you married/have kids? (I ask because one component of the opportunity cost is that you have to give up your income, which will impact on family). My wife is pretty flexible, so that's too much of a concern, but it does make me consider the cost more... holistically.

    You are right though... I need to change something... the question is what.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Grayscale's Avatar
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    i do not, but i have considered the future implications of making less and having a family. if i became a paramedic, it would almost guarantee that she would have to do at least some work on the side as well.

    right now i am saving money and planning on taking some entrance prerequisite classes, if i decide to go to college i dont want to have to use any loans. at the same time, i am also just trying to make a decision between something that will cater to my thinking ability (engineering) or something where i can escape the corporate environment and do something very active and hands-on. so far i have done very well with out a lot of formal education, im also wondering whether college is the thing for me or not. im afraid im going to get into engineering and that it will turn out that i just end up being another corporate pawn instead of actually being able to creatively invent.

    right there with you, though... i need a change, preferably before i lose my hair doing this sort of thing.

  7. #27
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayscale View Post
    i do not, but i have considered the future implications of making less and having a family. if i became a paramedic, it would almost guarantee that she would have to do at least some work on the side as well.

    right now i am saving money and planning on taking some entrance prerequisite classes, if i decide to go to college i dont want to have to use any loans. at the same time, i am also just trying to make a decision between something that will cater to my thinking ability (engineering) or something where i can escape the corporate environment and do something very active and hands-on. so far i have done very well with out a lot of formal education, im also wondering whether college is the thing for me or not. im afraid im going to get into engineering and that it will turn out that i just end up being another corporate pawn instead of actually being able to creatively invent.

    right there with you, though... i need a change, preferably before i lose my hair doing this sort of thing.
    You sound just like me, except I dropped out a couple of times, heh. That wasn't for me either - in many ways, I still don't know what is. At some level I enjoy the hobbies I have, but I lose a lot of interest if I'm not stressed at work. And when stress becomes too much, I lose interest. It's only when I'm bored that all of these issues come up.

    Judging from what was said here, engineering isn't going to be the thing for me... which at some level I kind of knew, but really needed it pointed out to me.

    I've also had no problems with jobs - if I judge by statistics, I'd say I've done incredibly well. Well enough that going back for engineering would likely see a pay cut Course, how stable I am... that's a bit different. And I pay a price to offset any success I've had... lots of stress, etc.

    Hah, stress indeed. I started losing my hair really early :P Even the doctor said it was likely to be triggered by stress (although you can recover from that, it seems like there is interplay between genetics and stress ). This was... before I was 20, even.

    *sigh* Always a price to pay, I suppose.

  8. #28
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    All of which I agree with - and I do have a lot of projects that I enjoy working on (I've taken the CNC thing seriously, from above - great idea).

    It's a matter of time and ability. My attitude was to get the ability and find a job that would pay me to do it I actually figured that it would pay off in the long run with a higher salary, but that doesn't seem to be the case, making the whole thing pointless.


    I've dropped the engineering idea. I've worked through it several times and it doesn't work out, emotionally or pratically. I have to suck up the next few years, perhaps, and then look towards my projects on a larger scale.
    You looked into CNC? :eek:

    Well to put it succinctly... I think you need to enter into your self G91 and quit working in G90.

    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #29
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    You looked into CNC? :eek:

    Well to put it succinctly... I think you need to enter into your self G91 and quit working in G90.

    For my 3 axis machine, I'll be looking just at g90. Incremental won't happen until/if I build a larger machine and/or add another axis (or more ).

    Not having a workshop means I have to keep it small still. I'd probably add an A axis so that I can lathe properly, if anything, but I might keep it as a pure lathe (x,z,A) yet.

    Heh, my place is too small for my big dreams.

  10. #30
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    For my 3 axis machine, I'll be looking just at g90. Incremental won't happen until/if I build a larger machine and/or add another axis (or more ).

    Not having a workshop means I have to keep it small still. I'd probably add an A axis so that I can lathe properly, if anything, but I might keep it as a pure lathe (x,z,A) yet.

    Heh, my place is too small for my big dreams.
    I was being sarcastic.

    What I meant was you're being too literal and linear. So you want to do civil engineering but your workshop is too small... so what? Build your self a scale model of the bloomin firth of fourth in your garden. Take up model railways as a hobby and do the large scale stuff so you can really flex your construction skills.

    Oh and if you're nose wrinkles at those prospects then perhaps it's not civil engineering you are actually interested in but more specific projects?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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